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Author Topic: ACTH under Range on TRT :-( +Still High SHBG ..going off :-(..ideas?  (Read 1236 times)

ted38

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Hi guys
I  must going off feom trt last 4 weeks ago :-(
I have high blood p. I feel tired-from beginning of trt (4 monts ago)
Before i start my trt i habe a long time fightig whit high SHBG.
I do a lot off blood test but cant finde something for the reson of high SHBG
Liver whas very good,thyriod ok(tsh.ft3.ft4)e2 in the rangw of 35-40

When i starting trt i whas hoping my shbg whas falling.
But it dont do that :-(
I try lower dose -testo range whas not inove high
I try higher dose like 2x week 70 mg of testosteron e,but then my.e2 rise
And shbg too

But the other problem whas i have no energy,more brain foog from the beginning
Of trt.
I do blood test and see me dhea and acth level falling down :-(
Last blood test show acth level.of 3.6! Ref.7-50! And dhea 144 -normaly i have 220

I i go off cold turkey ..

My natural acth level is low i the range of 7-8 becose i have a pitatury adenoma
I now i the lower point :-(

I dont have big ideas for starting another trt adventure ,but mayby somone of you guys have a idea?

My pitatury whas star to working now,my lh whas now by 1.0 (befor 0.0)
But dont now whats whit acth
Low enegy level,feel cold and feel muscle pain 2 day aftter light traing day is now normal,but hope i will better.

My 2 problem whas the high shbg-i us ling time low carb.diet,mayby higher carbs to.200-250 help

But.for the acth problem i.dont have ideas :-(

Soo not for evryone whas trt good :-(

Kierkegaard

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Re: ACTH under Range on TRT :-( +Still High SHBG ..going off :-(..ideas?
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2016, 01:50:04 am »
Although the research supports increases in CRH (which stimulates ACTH) and therefore increases in ACTH with testosterone replacement, you can see drops in ACTH with TRT, and with it important adrenal hormones that are stimulated by ACTH such as pregnenolone, progesterone, DHEA, and cortisol.  Chances are you're low in all or most of these hormones.  If you measure cortisol (4x salivary or through blood, for the latter provided you don't get anxious around needles) and it turns out to be low as well, you're looking at what's called secondary adrenal insufficiency, where low ACTH leads to low cortisol, and low cortisol has its own problems, including low blood sugar/hypoglycemia, muscle aches, anxiety, insomnia, being sensitive to stress, etc. 

Basically a lot of your remaining issues could be due to ACTH being too low.  Unfortunately you can't raise ACTH, as this treatment has gone out of style; back in the day you could take ACTH as a medication (I think by injection).  Fortunately ACTH doesn't seem to do much by itself, so the question becomes how to increase adrenal hormones like pregnenolone, progesterone, and others listed (especially cortisol) that will be lowered because ACTH Is also lowered.  This can be done by supplementing with pregnenolone and DHEA, and if you have low enough cortisol also supplementing with hydrocortisone, man-made cortisol.   
« Last Edit: November 02, 2016, 01:52:59 am by Kierkegaard »
"The same thing that makes you live can kill you in the end." -- Neil Young

March 2014: Dx low T (158ng/dl)
September 2015: Dx hypothyroidism, other adrenal hypofunction/low cortisol
Treatment: 30-35 mg cypionate subq E3D, 50 mcg levothyroxine QD; adaptogens
Supplements: fish oil, vitamin D3, magnesium, copper (low in serum), DIM, coq10, B vitamins (including hydroxyb12), probiotic, astaxanthin, iodine
Depression and anxiety guide: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Help_Anxiety_Depression.aspx

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Re: ACTH under Range on TRT :-( +Still High SHBG ..going off :-(..ideas?
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2016, 01:50:04 am »

ted38

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Re: ACTH under Range on TRT :-( +Still High SHBG ..going off :-(..ideas?
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2016, 09:06:59 am »
thank you for answering ..
 firs problem from the beginning whas High SHBG,that why i starting trt,becose my free testosteron whas under the range last 2-3 years.
Hoping whit testosterone it whas going down i try all protocols without AI and HCG but its dont fall.

Second whas The ACTH whas low in the range off 7 from the beginn of TRT and befor too ..but i hope its dont fall lower whit TRT.

i do all 1 mont blood test and see the dhea level fall lower,and lower and test ACTH and see its under the range.

The only way to going up whit acth whas going off whit TRT :-( becose take sytnetic ACTH whas not possible! and stay on TRt mayby its fall lower of 3,6!and its too dangerus

and take pregenelone+cortisol+DHEA whas tooo much hormons from outside and my hormon system whas shut 100% down .

Now im 4 weeks off and will do blood test in 1 monts to see whats happend,but have all the bad symtompf of low adrenall fuktion+low testosteron..only no depresion haha

mayby i find some expert to hel me whit the high shbg(find the reason?) and low acth..

But its must by a pro expert tho have Khnowhow of DR.House :-) becose its not only simple low testosterone are the reason for my problems..

thanks

Boxcar

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Re: ACTH under Range on TRT :-( +Still High SHBG ..going off :-(..ideas?
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2016, 10:54:23 am »

My 2 problem whas the high shbg-i us ling time low carb.diet,mayby higher carbs to.200-250 help


Carbs seem to lower my SHBG.  To verify this, I had labwork done after 24 hours of eating low carb.  My SHBG was 43, eating low carb.  Usually it is around 20-25, so that's a big change (and it corresponds with how I feel).  Also, if you are in a caloric deficit, that might raise your SHBG as well, so you want to make sure that you are getting enough calories.

Starchy carbs seem to be what works for me (ie, bread, potatoes, rice, pasta).  For the most part, sugar does not seem to help.
Age: 36
178 lbs 5'8''

Current Treatment: 50 mg testosterone cypionate IM, twice a week
Low T Symptoms: Chronic pelvic pain, and other neuropathic pain.  Mild anxiety, low energy and low motivation
Meds: Amitriptyline (for pain, not depression), Clonidine (for sleep, not blood pressure)

ted38

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Re: ACTH under Range on TRT :-( +Still High SHBG ..going off :-(..ideas?
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2016, 11:17:30 am »
boxcar:
about high SHBG..
i understand it right?
you have "high"SHBG and you do Blood test on Low Carb Diet and after Eating more carb-High Carb Diet?
what whas the blood test after?

SHBG falling down slow,i think 24 hours not enough to lower it.

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Re: ACTH under Range on TRT :-( +Still High SHBG ..going off :-(..ideas?
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2016, 11:17:30 am »


Boxcar

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Re: ACTH under Range on TRT :-( +Still High SHBG ..going off :-(..ideas?
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2016, 05:13:38 pm »
boxcar:
about high SHBG..
i understand it right?
you have "high"SHBG and you do Blood test on Low Carb Diet and after Eating more carb-High Carb Diet?
what whas the blood test after?

SHBG falling down slow,i think 24 hours not enough to lower it.

Yes, exactly. 

My experience is probably not typical -- but since you are eating low carb, I thought I would mention it as a possibility.  Unfortunately, the research on SHBG and diet is not very consistent: http://press.endocrine.org/doi/full/10.1210/jcem.85.1.6291
Age: 36
178 lbs 5'8''

Current Treatment: 50 mg testosterone cypionate IM, twice a week
Low T Symptoms: Chronic pelvic pain, and other neuropathic pain.  Mild anxiety, low energy and low motivation
Meds: Amitriptyline (for pain, not depression), Clonidine (for sleep, not blood pressure)

ted38

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Re: ACTH under Range on TRT :-( +Still High SHBG ..going off :-(..ideas?
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2016, 08:45:56 am »
But For my personally now is the Bigest question,whats now.
I Brak Off my TRT.
but try to find a Way to Starting TRT in The future one more time.

What i know now(thanks all TRT web site,Hormons site ect)
1.Testostosteron/TRT can Lower The Pituitary work for all Hormones
2.Dhea can Lower ACTH production too
3.HC can lowert ACTH production too

its dont look nice
Best way whas ,not lowering the ACTH level ot find a way to push it ub for long Term(siberian Ginseng is only for a shor while)

i think about try to find someone to by a specialist under the specialist,not only for Testosterone..

ted38

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Re: ACTH under Range on TRT :-( +Still High SHBG ..going off :-(..ideas?
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2017, 03:55:13 am »
hi guys..back to my importent question

1.now after 3 monts and 2-3x blood test my acth level is still low,the same dhea -finaly im still tired
pregnenolone whas mayby a option,but i thing its degrees mayby more acth?
2.lithium can help?its whas for better pituitary working /hormonal system too?!
3.lh is now falling under 1,7 :-(.,after going off trt 3 weeks off it whas by 3.2!after 3 monts falling back down..
4.will try this time testosterone propionate ,because under testosterone enat.,my e2 level going up to 45+
5.all my pituitary level+adrenal glads hormon whas low :-( ..only way to have better life qualiuty whas take more hormons,but its a big cycle,that never ending
6.someone have ideas,who can help?


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Re: ACTH under Range on TRT :-( +Still High SHBG ..going off :-(..ideas?
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2017, 03:55:13 am »

PLEASE SUPPORT THE SITE AND GIVE AN AMAZON REVIEW IF POSSIBLE:


Kierkegaard

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Re: ACTH under Range on TRT :-( +Still High SHBG ..going off :-(..ideas?
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2017, 10:15:43 pm »
hi guys..back to my importent question

1.now after 3 monts and 2-3x blood test my acth level is still low,the same dhea -finaly im still tired
pregnenolone whas mayby a option,but i thing its degrees mayby more acth?
2.lithium can help?its whas for better pituitary working /hormonal system too?!
3.lh is now falling under 1,7 :-(.,after going off trt 3 weeks off it whas by 3.2!after 3 monts falling back down..
4.will try this time testosterone propionate ,because under testosterone enat.,my e2 level going up to 45+
5.all my pituitary level+adrenal glads hormon whas low :-( ..only way to have better life qualiuty whas take more hormons,but its a big cycle,that never ending
6.someone have ideas,who can help?

Nobody prescribes ACTH anymore, so you're left with increasing pregnenolone and other hormones, which most docs do through supplementing pregnenolone and DHEA.  However, you'd need to know cortisol, because it's possible (not likely) that cortisol is very high for some reason, which causes ACTH (and thus pregnenolone, progesterone, DHEA, all adrenal hormones) to be low.

Where'd you get lithium from?  That's worth a shot for other reasons: it's an essential mineral (see this excellent article, and most people are probably deficient), responsible for getting folate and B12 into cells, GABA (your brain's main inhibitory neurotransmitter, most important for reducing anxiety/stress) sensitivity, and mood regulation (depression and not just bipolar/mood swings).  I'd see this as an independent factor to consider in relation to your hormones here, but worth checking out.  You can measure it for cheap at walkinlab.com (order the test, they'll send you a lab order through email, print it off, go to your nearest Labcorp, get the results in a few days) .

Your LH number could just be lab error (usually 20% variability for most things measured), so the levels could be about the same.  Give it a few more months -- or not, your call.

Propionate has a shorter half life than cypionate/enanthate, which means you're going to get a sharper jump and faster fall, which *might* mean higher E2 levels.  I'd just consider staying with enanthate and injecting every 2 or 3 days, subcutaneously if possible, both of which should lower your estradiol.  Hell, if you're doing it subcutaneously, you can inject it daily; the more frequently you inject, the lower your E2 stays relative to T, which drops faster than E2 when T is exogenous (for whatever reason).

As for your 5th point, look into hypopituitarism, and ask yourself if you've had any head injuries, as this can cause one or more pituitary hormone deficiencies.  And you might look into another doctor, even going across state lines and going to CA where all the good ones are -- or, uh, you know, seeing a certain Dr Saya that frequents this forum via Defy Medical.
"The same thing that makes you live can kill you in the end." -- Neil Young

March 2014: Dx low T (158ng/dl)
September 2015: Dx hypothyroidism, other adrenal hypofunction/low cortisol
Treatment: 30-35 mg cypionate subq E3D, 50 mcg levothyroxine QD; adaptogens
Supplements: fish oil, vitamin D3, magnesium, copper (low in serum), DIM, coq10, B vitamins (including hydroxyb12), probiotic, astaxanthin, iodine
Depression and anxiety guide: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Help_Anxiety_Depression.aspx

Peak Testosterone Forum

Re: ACTH under Range on TRT :-( +Still High SHBG ..going off :-(..ideas?
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2017, 10:15:43 pm »