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Author Topic: What the heck is causing widespread declines in testosterone?  (Read 1708 times)

queesseldealio

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What the heck is causing widespread declines in testosterone?
« on: January 18, 2017, 09:51:00 am »
So as many of you likely know, men (at least in "developed" nations) have lower levels of testosterone than in years past.

https://www.endocrine.org/news-room/press-release-archives/2006/testosterone_lvls_in_men_decline

I am sure that there have always been guys with low T, but this isn't just shit luck, it is a big trend.

What is driving this?

Endocrine disruptors like pesticides, BPA, fire retardants in your mattress?
Arsenic in produce?
Flouride?
Alcohol/tobacco/pharm meds?
Exposure to RF, wifi, etc?
Exposure to fallout from nuclear "testing"? (I kinda doubt this one TBH, since those levels peaked long ago and are in decline)
Sedentary lifestyle?
Psychological angst (pretty obvious that the world is headed to shit)?
Cultural emphasis on making men less needed and less masculine?
All or many of the above combined?

I await your speculations and comments. And also, is there any science on this???

Sean Mosher

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Re: What the heck is causing widespread declines in testosterone?
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2017, 10:40:50 am »
Would love to know the answer to this as well.
Hormones in our food and many of the things you listed as well could be problematic..........
It's just hard to nail it down without some good scientific data/studies.
Just glad there are great ways to combat it with TRT.
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Re: What the heck is causing widespread declines in testosterone?
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2017, 10:40:50 am »

Sighalot

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Re: What the heck is causing widespread declines in testosterone?
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2017, 12:04:21 pm »
Chemicals, bad lifestyle and food grown in dirt empty of minerals is my bet.

Retardo

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Re: What the heck is causing widespread declines in testosterone?
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2017, 01:25:19 pm »
Would love to know the answer to this as well.
Hormones in our food and many of the things you listed as well could be problematic..........
It's just hard to nail it down without some good scientific data/studies.
Just glad there are great ways to combat it with TRT.

yes, Id like to know also
Id recommend you read
Excitotoxins: The Taste That Kills by dr blaylock who talks about a lot of the issues in our food


I doubt it's wifi since wifi has waves like radio, only shorter


Kierkegaard

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Re: What the heck is causing widespread declines in testosterone?
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2017, 02:23:29 pm »
Here's a link to a great documentary, The Disappearing Male: https://vimeo.com/15346778
"The same thing that makes you live can kill you in the end." -- Neil Young

March 2014: Dx low T (158ng/dl)
September 2015: Dx hypothyroidism, other adrenal hypofunction/low cortisol
Treatment: 30-35 mg cypionate subq E3D, 50 mcg levothyroxine QD; adaptogens
Supplements: fish oil, vitamin D3, magnesium, copper (low in serum), DIM, coq10, B vitamins (including hydroxyb12), probiotic, astaxanthin, iodine
Depression and anxiety guide: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Help_Anxiety_Depression.aspx

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Re: What the heck is causing widespread declines in testosterone?
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2017, 02:23:29 pm »

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Nocturne

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Re: What the heck is causing widespread declines in testosterone?
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2017, 08:14:36 pm »
SJW liberals and feminists are causing it!
43 years old
5'7", was 220 pounds when trouble started, now down to 165
Trouble began with abrupt ED Early May '15
Initial T level 130
Started Clomid in hopes of rebooting system June '15
Currently taking 25 mg eod and .25 mg Arimidex every 4 days
T level 480 or so at last reading
ED in check with 2.5 mg Cialis eod and supplements:
POM juice, L-Cit, Pycnogenol

Morning anxiety currently in check with GABA taken every night

Biggest current worry is heart health:
Aortic stenosis (very mild for now)
CAC score 156(!) at age 42
20 mg Crestor and baby aspirin every day
CoQ-10, Vitamin K2, and Kyolic Aged Garlic Extract every day too
Walking 10,000 steps a day

cujet

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Re: What the heck is causing widespread declines in testosterone?
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2017, 08:21:52 pm »
My thyroid and testicular failure was brought on by a virus. In particular, a specific strain of the Epstein Barr (mono) virus.

After reading about Hashimoto's thyroid failure, it seems mono is a common link among many. A 2015 Polish study found the Epstein-Barr Virus in the thyroid cells of 80% of people with Hashimoto’s and 62.5% of people with Graves’, while controls did not have EBV present in their thyroid cells.

Guessing the low T epidemic is environmental, (such as hormones in meat) and virus/bacteria (in particular gut bacteria) related.
53 years old
Autoimmune Hashimoto's, near zero natural T production
Cause: severe mononucleosis in my early 30's
Weight 200
Height 5' 10"
Very active, daily workouts and some cardio.
0.75g compounded 10% T cream, rotated daily to shaved armpits, shoulders, groin area
137Mg WPthyroid (same as old Armour formulation)
Perfect bloodwork labs (april 2016) , my T=724.8, TSH 0.5, other thyroid levels normal.

Supplements:
B12 
CoQ10, 300mg ubiquinol
Zinc + Selenium
D3+K2mk-7
Alpha Lipoic Acid 300mg.

 

One more thing: I am non-functional without T or vitamin B's. I often (but not always) have crushing exhaustion, extreme weakness, no physical endurance. Daily workouts with weights, high protein, very low carb diet (salad/fish/low fat meats, uncooked veggies) keep me mostly functional. Carbs cause me problems.

Boxcar

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Re: What the heck is causing widespread declines in testosterone?
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2017, 08:32:58 pm »
Here's a link to a great documentary, The Disappearing Male: https://vimeo.com/15346778

Thanks, I will have to check that out.  Society definitely disparages masculinity, although I don't think it's nearly as bad as the "red pill" guys seem to think (Basically, they think that we are indoctrinated from an early age to despise masculinity.). 

Body position can change testosterone levels, probably through some sort of psychological feedback.  According to one study, body postures that cause us to take up less space, like crossing our legs, lower testosterone by 20%, at least in the short term.  Some feminists describe "man-spreading" (sitting with your legs spread) as if it were some great outrage (Lol, feminists).  But apparently subtle cognitive-behavioral changes can influence our testosterone levels... so it's tempting to imagine how much this sort of thing can add-up.

But for the biggest cause of declining testosterone levels, I would have to go with obesity and associated metabolic problems.  Eating too much and moving too little, the cause of so many health problems...
Age: 35
178 lbs 5'8''

Current Treatment: 50 mg testosterone cypionate IM, twice a week
Low T Symptoms: Chronic pelvic pain, and other neuropathic pain.  Mild anxiety, low energy and low motivation
Meds: Amitriptyline (for pain, not depression), Clonidine (for sleep, not blood pressure)

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Re: What the heck is causing widespread declines in testosterone?
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2017, 08:32:58 pm »


Kierkegaard

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Re: What the heck is causing widespread declines in testosterone?
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2017, 10:11:42 pm »
Here's a link to a great documentary, The Disappearing Male: https://vimeo.com/15346778

Thanks, I will have to check that out.  Society definitely disparages masculinity, although I don't think it's nearly as bad as the "red pill" guys seem to think (Basically, they think that we are indoctrinated from an early age to despise masculinity.). 

Body position can change testosterone levels, probably through some sort of psychological feedback.  According to one study, body postures that cause us to take up less space, like crossing our legs, lower testosterone by 20%, at least in the short term.  Some feminists describe "man-spreading" (sitting with your legs spread) as if it were some great outrage (Lol, feminists).  But apparently subtle cognitive-behavioral changes can influence our testosterone levels... so it's tempting to imagine how much this sort of thing can add-up.

But for the biggest cause of declining testosterone levels, I would have to go with obesity and associated metabolic problems.  Eating too much and moving too little, the cause of so many health problems...

Yes!  I know the study you're talking about, because I sold it to my boss -- assistant dean of student affairs at the college I worked at -- in that there could be a booth at career fairs (where students are looking for employers for the first time, i.e., scared shitless), ideally covered or obscured, where people could practice relaxation and also do those poses, like sitting back with legs up on the table, or standing while bending slightly forward, palms on the desk, and one or two more.  But he was and still is a very muddleheaded guy so the idea didn't go anywhere. 
"The same thing that makes you live can kill you in the end." -- Neil Young

March 2014: Dx low T (158ng/dl)
September 2015: Dx hypothyroidism, other adrenal hypofunction/low cortisol
Treatment: 30-35 mg cypionate subq E3D, 50 mcg levothyroxine QD; adaptogens
Supplements: fish oil, vitamin D3, magnesium, copper (low in serum), DIM, coq10, B vitamins (including hydroxyb12), probiotic, astaxanthin, iodine
Depression and anxiety guide: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Help_Anxiety_Depression.aspx

Kierkegaard

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Re: What the heck is causing widespread declines in testosterone?
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2017, 10:12:36 pm »
BTW, the documentary seems to blame the decline in males on environmental variables, e.g., xenoestrogens (although I don't recall if they named it as such).
"The same thing that makes you live can kill you in the end." -- Neil Young

March 2014: Dx low T (158ng/dl)
September 2015: Dx hypothyroidism, other adrenal hypofunction/low cortisol
Treatment: 30-35 mg cypionate subq E3D, 50 mcg levothyroxine QD; adaptogens
Supplements: fish oil, vitamin D3, magnesium, copper (low in serum), DIM, coq10, B vitamins (including hydroxyb12), probiotic, astaxanthin, iodine
Depression and anxiety guide: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Help_Anxiety_Depression.aspx

PeakT

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Re: What the heck is causing widespread declines in testosterone?
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2017, 03:46:41 am »
BTW, the documentary seems to blame the decline in males on environmental variables, e.g., xenoestrogens (although I don't recall if they named it as such).

If you haven't seen this page, check out the pesticides that likely lower testosterone:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Testosterone_Pesticides.aspx

And think about this:  pesticides have been tied into Parkinson's in several studies.  If they damage these dopamine-producing neurons, then they are very likely damaging other parts of the brain as well and that could include ones that effect the HPT axis.
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements. Yes, low T and E.D. are usually medical conditions.  There are potential risk with HRT:  http://www.peaktestosterone.com/testosterone_risks.aspx.
My Health History: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/My_Health_Story.aspx.
And check out my new Peak Testosterone Program on the right side of my home page: http://www.peaktestosterone.com.

kcrunner

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Re: What the heck is causing widespread declines in testosterone?
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2017, 06:21:26 am »
It's almost certainly lifestyle.   For virtually all of human history, we spent a significant portion of our days engaging in rigorous physical activity.   For the last few decades, the average level of physical activity per person has declined significantly.   Thus we no longer thrive.

If you penned up a wolf in a small pen and fed him a highly processed diet that looked very little like what he was evolved to eat, when he was not thriving and his hormone levels were out of whack, you would not jump to the conclusion that it has to be pesticides on his food or something like that, you would instead recognize that he is being fed a diet he is not evolved for and is not engaging in the physical activity he was evolved to do.  So pesticides could be a cause, but its probably not the primary cause.

We are no different.   That does not explain every case of low testosterone, for example I have been very active and have ate a whole foods diet my entire adult life (sometimes we have genetics, viruses, or past trauma that can be a cause), but it does explain the vast majority of the general decline in testosterone levels. 
« Last Edit: January 19, 2017, 06:23:27 am by kcrunner »
Age: 40
Height: 6,1
Weight: 176
Total Testosterone: 829 ng/dl
Free Testosterone: 22 ng/dl
Current Meds:  Levothyroxine 137mcg, Testosterone Cyp Intra-Muscular 100 mg every 7 days.
Supplements-
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PeakT

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Re: What the heck is causing widespread declines in testosterone?
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2017, 09:15:03 am »
It's almost certainly lifestyle.   For virtually all of human history, we spent a significant portion of our days engaging in rigorous physical activity.   For the last few decades, the average level of physical activity per person has declined significantly.   Thus we no longer thrive.

If you penned up a wolf in a small pen and fed him a highly processed diet that looked very little like what he was evolved to eat, when he was not thriving and his hormone levels were out of whack, you would not jump to the conclusion that it has to be pesticides on his food or something like that, you would instead recognize that he is being fed a diet he is not evolved for and is not engaging in the physical activity he was evolved to do.  So pesticides could be a cause, but its probably not the primary cause.

We are no different.   That does not explain every case of low testosterone, for example I have been very active and have ate a whole foods diet my entire adult life (sometimes we have genetics, viruses, or past trauma that can be a cause), but it does explain the vast majority of the general decline in testosterone levels.

You could be right.  Let's face it:  we all want to usually blame environmental factors instead of lifestyle for our woes.  But I don't think inactivity explains what we are seeing - at least directly anyway - and I'll tell you why:  somebody would have said:  "Hey, we're all getting fatter and that explains the loss in testosterone."  I'm sure the researchers have looked at that, and it is clear they think something additional is going on.  I would add that body fat has much more direct control over testosterone levels than exercise. Of course, if you don't exercise and are sedentary, then you are going to put on weight, so the two overlap. 

I also can't help but wonder if lack of sleep and poor sleep don't play a role on the lifestyle side.  A huge percentage of guys now, including myself, stare at screens all day and night and don't get enough sleep, etc.  And the extra body weight that so many men have also probably increases snoring, apnea and other sleep disorders.

As you said, our bodies and brains were not designed to sit around with artificial light shining into retinas.


If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements. Yes, low T and E.D. are usually medical conditions.  There are potential risk with HRT:  http://www.peaktestosterone.com/testosterone_risks.aspx.
My Health History: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/My_Health_Story.aspx.
And check out my new Peak Testosterone Program on the right side of my home page: http://www.peaktestosterone.com.

Cataceous

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Re: What the heck is causing widespread declines in testosterone?
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2017, 09:39:19 am »
I agree with kcrunner, but at least in the 2006 study they did control for BMI. It would be a lot more difficult to control for the full healthy lifestyle. How many guys actually eat healthy whole foods with plenty of fruits and vegetables, exercise several hours a week and get enough sleep? Could you even get a large enough cohort to achieve statistical significance?
« Last Edit: January 19, 2017, 06:10:34 pm by Cataceous »
I am not a medical doctor; any suggestions are meant to be discussed with your doctor.
Age: 55, Ht: 5'10", Wt: 154 lbs
Protocol: 18 mg T enanthate subQ qod, 270 IU hCG subQ qod, 6.25 mg DHEA orally bid
9/2016 test results: TT: 750 ng/dL (348-1197), FT: 22 pg/mL (7.2-24), E2: 50 pg/mL sensitive (8.0-35.0), DHEA-S: 255 ug/dL (71.6-375.4)

Retardo

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Re: What the heck is causing widespread declines in testosterone?
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2017, 10:46:26 am »

As you said, our bodies and brains were not designed to sit around with artificial light shining into retinas.

I'm not sure about the light part
I agree with the not sitting around part, but also take into consideration all the eating that people do when they sit around

there CAN be benefits(benes?) to sitting around playing video games
"Relieve Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder
Make You Nicer (Some of Them, Anyway)
Help Track the Spread of Disease
Stave Off Senility
Turn You Into a Top Surgeon"
http://www.cracked.com/article/104_6-ways-video-games-are-saving-mankind/


so there are benes to sitting around and playing video games, but the eating is the big point, that drives you to lose health.(bigger than the inactivity that is NOT good for you)

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Re: What the heck is causing widespread declines in testosterone?
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2017, 10:46:26 am »