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Author Topic: First uninterrupted sleep in 6 yrs (chronic pain sufferer) TRT is something else  (Read 422 times)

bbnoob25

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I am 2.5 weeks into test cyp + hCG and last night I had my first uninterrupted 7 hour sleep in at least 6 years. My chronic pain is definitely reduced. I am curious what mechanisms are at play here. Is the TRT reducing my inflammation, or is it just inducing deep sleep, which is allowing me to feel more rested thus promoting a healthier life style?

 Do these types of positive effects subside after the initial honeymoon phase, or should I expect these types of benefits for years to come? It seems a little too good to be true

eddy88

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I am 2.5 weeks into test cyp + hCG and last night I had my first uninterrupted 7 hour sleep in at least 6 years. My chronic pain is definitely reduced. I am curious what mechanisms are at play here. Is the TRT reducing my inflammation, or is it just inducing deep sleep, which is allowing me to feel more rested thus promoting a healthier life style?

 Do these types of positive effects subside after the initial honeymoon phase, or should I expect these types of benefits for years to come? It seems a little too good to be true

I don't have experience with TRT but from what I have heard on here, there is a honeymoon phase with it.  More so with some than others, and everyone is different.
28 years old
ED started Feb. 2016.

Pre-clomid lab numbers:
Total T --> 313/349/258 (249-836)
Free T --> 79.87/59.65 (30-150)
SHBG --> 22/19 (10-57)
LH --> 4.3/3.1 (1.7-8.6)
FSH --> 1.7/1.6 (1.5-12.4)
Prolactin --> 5.1 (4-15.2)
Estradiol --> 11.42/24.06 (7.02-49.06)

Started taking clomid September 2016.  Tested Oct 5 and November 30:

Total T --> 649/502 (249-836)
Free T --> 149/123 (30-150)
SHBG --> 26/21 (10-57)
LH --> 7.7/7.3 (1.7-8.6)
FSH --> 2.3/1.9 (1.5-12.4)
Prolactin --> 11.3/9.4 (4-15.2)
Estradiol --> 29.49/26.32 (7.02-49.06)

Off clomid Jan 16, 2017 due to no improvement in symptoms.

Current symptoms:  low libido and erectile dysfunction.
Currently seeking a functional medicine solution.

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Sean Mosher

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Apart from any other physical/psychological problems/stress, I would hope that once you're dialed in and settled with TRT that you should continue to experience multiple benefits.
Glad to hear it's going well from the get go!
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bbnoob25

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Apart from any other physical/psychological problems/stress, I would hope that once you're dialed in and settled with TRT that you should continue to experience multiple benefits.
Glad to hear it's going well from the get go!

Thanks, Sean. Really appreciate you hooking me up with Dr Rotman, things are going great.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2017, 09:13:41 am by bbnoob25 »

Oldbull

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It didn't last for me but some guys have benefits longterm.

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Kierkegaard

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I am 2.5 weeks into test cyp + hCG and last night I had my first uninterrupted 7 hour sleep in at least 6 years. My chronic pain is definitely reduced. I am curious what mechanisms are at play here. Is the TRT reducing my inflammation, or is it just inducing deep sleep, which is allowing me to feel more rested thus promoting a healthier life style?

 Do these types of positive effects subside after the initial honeymoon phase, or should I expect these types of benefits for years to come? It seems a little too good to be true

A few mechanisms come to mind.  First, testosterone is very antiinflammatory, and you're not the first person to notice a significant reduction in pain because of it. Second, testosterone lowers norepinephrine, a stress hormone that's needed in normal amounts, but too high can cause anxiety and insomnia.

If you're looking to decrease pain further, look into the potent supplement antiinflammatories, particularly EPA in fish or krill oil (I take a supplement called Ultra Omega 3, which is cheap and has lots of EPA and DHA) and turmeric.  Multiple people have noted how reasonably high doses of fish oil have reduced their pain relating to inflammation. 
"The same thing that makes you live can kill you in the end." -- Neil Young

March 2014: Dx low T (158ng/dl)
September 2015: Dx hypothyroidism, other adrenal hypofunction/low cortisol
Treatment: 30-35 mg cypionate subq E3D, 50 mcg levothyroxine QD; adaptogens
Supplements: fish oil, vitamin D3, magnesium, copper (low in serum), DIM, coq10, B vitamins (including hydroxyb12), probiotic, astaxanthin, iodine
Depression and anxiety guide: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Help_Anxiety_Depression.aspx

bbnoob25

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I am 2.5 weeks into test cyp + hCG and last night I had my first uninterrupted 7 hour sleep in at least 6 years. My chronic pain is definitely reduced. I am curious what mechanisms are at play here. Is the TRT reducing my inflammation, or is it just inducing deep sleep, which is allowing me to feel more rested thus promoting a healthier life style?

 Do these types of positive effects subside after the initial honeymoon phase, or should I expect these types of benefits for years to come? It seems a little too good to be true

A few mechanisms come to mind.  First, testosterone is very antiinflammatory, and you're not the first person to notice a significant reduction in pain because of it. Second, testosterone lowers norepinephrine, a stress hormone that's needed in normal amounts, but too high can cause anxiety and insomnia.

If you're looking to decrease pain further, look into the potent supplement antiinflammatories, particularly EPA in fish or krill oil (I take a supplement called Ultra Omega 3, which is cheap and has lots of EPA and DHA) and turmeric.  Multiple people have noted how reasonably high doses of fish oil have reduced their pain relating to inflammation.

Thanks for the information!!

Regarding fish oil, I was put on a prescription strength fish oil years ago that my insurance company covered, I forget the name of it, but besides bad smelling burps, I didn't get much benefit, but maybe it's time to revisit those supplements.

Kierkegaard

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I am 2.5 weeks into test cyp + hCG and last night I had my first uninterrupted 7 hour sleep in at least 6 years. My chronic pain is definitely reduced. I am curious what mechanisms are at play here. Is the TRT reducing my inflammation, or is it just inducing deep sleep, which is allowing me to feel more rested thus promoting a healthier life style?

 Do these types of positive effects subside after the initial honeymoon phase, or should I expect these types of benefits for years to come? It seems a little too good to be true

A few mechanisms come to mind.  First, testosterone is very antiinflammatory, and you're not the first person to notice a significant reduction in pain because of it. Second, testosterone lowers norepinephrine, a stress hormone that's needed in normal amounts, but too high can cause anxiety and insomnia.

If you're looking to decrease pain further, look into the potent supplement antiinflammatories, particularly EPA in fish or krill oil (I take a supplement called Ultra Omega 3, which is cheap and has lots of EPA and DHA) and turmeric.  Multiple people have noted how reasonably high doses of fish oil have reduced their pain relating to inflammation.

Thanks for the information!!

Regarding fish oil, I was put on a prescription strength fish oil years ago that my insurance company covered, I forget the name of it, but besides bad smelling burps, I didn't get much benefit, but maybe it's time to revisit those supplements.

Pharmaceutical fish oil.  Good God.  They have to patent everything.

The brand I try is probably better than the pharmaceutical and no fish burps: https://www.amazon.com/Foods-Ultra-Omega-Soft-gels-180-Count/dp/B000SE5SY6/ref=sr_1_1_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1491627786&sr=8-1&keywords=ultra+omega+3

Adding turmeric to it might involve a multiplier effect in terms of antiinflammatories.  Worth a shot. 
"The same thing that makes you live can kill you in the end." -- Neil Young

March 2014: Dx low T (158ng/dl)
September 2015: Dx hypothyroidism, other adrenal hypofunction/low cortisol
Treatment: 30-35 mg cypionate subq E3D, 50 mcg levothyroxine QD; adaptogens
Supplements: fish oil, vitamin D3, magnesium, copper (low in serum), DIM, coq10, B vitamins (including hydroxyb12), probiotic, astaxanthin, iodine
Depression and anxiety guide: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Help_Anxiety_Depression.aspx

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PeakT

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I am 2.5 weeks into test cyp + hCG and last night I had my first uninterrupted 7 hour sleep in at least 6 years. My chronic pain is definitely reduced. I am curious what mechanisms are at play here. Is the TRT reducing my inflammation, or is it just inducing deep sleep, which is allowing me to feel more rested thus promoting a healthier life style?

 Do these types of positive effects subside after the initial honeymoon phase, or should I expect these types of benefits for years to come? It seems a little too good to be true

Yes, testosterone has been documented to lower inflammation in a number of tissues:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/testosterone_inflammation.aspx

TRT greatly helped me with my sleep.  And, no, you must keep monitoring all your hormones and continually improve your lifestyle if you want to get years of benefit.  There is no such thing as a silver bullet when it comes to the complex, very sophisticated machines that we get to operate on a daily basis...
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements. Yes, low T and E.D. are usually medical conditions.  There are potential risk with HRT:  http://www.peaktestosterone.com/testosterone_risks.aspx.
My Health History: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/My_Health_Story.aspx.
And check out my new Peak Testosterone Program on the right side of my home page: http://www.peaktestosterone.com.

Boxcar

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Testosterone boosts your baseline endorphin levels, as well as your endorphin response to daily activities.  The former will wane over time, just like the effects of opioid drugs, which will eventually diminish if you do not increase the dose. But the endorphin boost that you get from exercise or from any activities that you find fun or rewarding, that seems to remain. So even after the honeymoon phase, I am far more resilient to my chronic pain. Exercise and sex are the activities that produce the most pronounced endorphin boost, but other activities do to a lesser extent as well.  This helps explain why guys notice, for example, that music sounds better.

Better sleep and a lessened emotional response to pain are other enduring benefits.

Fish oil is good stuff, but it eventually caused gastritis for me (with bleeding in the stomach confirmed). Omega 3 supplements have both the benefits and potential side effects of NSAIDS.

I am glad to hear that you are doing well with TRT. It is not going to cure serious cases of chronic pain, but I have seen significant enduring benefits. Either way, let us know how it goes.
Age: 35
178 lbs 5'8''

Current Treatment: 50 mg testosterone cypionate IM, twice a week
Low T Symptoms: Chronic pelvic pain, and other neuropathic pain.  Mild anxiety, low energy and low motivation
Meds: Amitriptyline (for pain, not depression), Clonidine (for sleep, not blood pressure)

Joe Sixpack

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Fish oil is good stuff, but it eventually caused gastritis for me (with bleeding in the stomach confirmed). Omega 3 supplements have both the benefits and potential side effects of NSAIDS.
Hmm.  I didn't know fish oil could do that.  What were your symptoms of gastritis?  How was it diagnosed?
Age: 53, Ht: 5'08", Wt: 150 lbs
Protocol: 40mg T Cyp 3x/week, 300 IU hCG 3x/week, 50mg DHEA + 50mg Pregnenalone daily.
1/2017 test results: TT: 1152 ng/dL (348-1197), FT: 23.7 pg/mL (7.2-24), E2: 22.0 pg/mL sensitive (8.0-35.0)

SemperFi

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I've been on TRT for about 8 weeks now and it has helped my sleep tremendously.

However, I noticed the sleep quality regressed again after about 3 weeks or so.  Especially a few days after my weekly injection.    I would wake up in the middle of the night with my mind racing and feeling hot.    I realized what was probably happening was my estradiol levels were going to high.   Once I reduced my estradiol levels (gently), the sleep quality returned.

PeakT

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I've been on TRT for about 8 weeks now and it has helped my sleep tremendously.

However, I noticed the sleep quality regressed again after about 3 weeks or so.  Especially a few days after my weekly injection.    I would wake up in the middle of the night with my mind racing and feeling hot.    I realized what was probably happening was my estradiol levels were going to high.   Once I reduced my estradiol levels (gently), the sleep quality returned.

Makes sense. Guys on here have said low or high estradiol affects their sleep.
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements. Yes, low T and E.D. are usually medical conditions.  There are potential risk with HRT:  http://www.peaktestosterone.com/testosterone_risks.aspx.
My Health History: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/My_Health_Story.aspx.
And check out my new Peak Testosterone Program on the right side of my home page: http://www.peaktestosterone.com.

Boxcar

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Fish oil is good stuff, but it eventually caused gastritis for me (with bleeding in the stomach confirmed). Omega 3 supplements have both the benefits and potential side effects of NSAIDS.
Hmm.  I didn't know fish oil could do that.  What were your symptoms of gastritis?  How was it diagnosed?

A gastroscopy confirmed that I had bleeding and inflammation in my stomach. Symptom was chest pains. I was  H pylori negative and never responded to drugs (omeprazole, etc). It is impossible to be 100% certain it was fish oil (flax oil did the same, btw), since it was never an acute effect. But when I stopped the Omega 3 supplements, I slowly got better. It is years later now and I feel mostly recovered, although my stomach is still a bit more sensitive than it was.

I was tipped-off about this by health blogger Chris Masterjohn (who mentioned to me off-handedly about the effects of omega 3 on cox 2). He believes that humans are not meant to eat large amounts of Omega 3 (or any PUFA). He thinks that EPA should be especially avoided, although he advocates taking a small amount of high-vitamin cod liver oil. I was resistant, because I did have benefits from fish oil, but I think that stopping it saved me big time.

Of course lots of people tolerate fish oil just fine. The bottom line is that you want to be aware of the potential for developing stomach issues with omega 3 supplements, especially if you take anti-inflammatory medication or drink a lot of alcohol (neither applied to me, btw).
« Last Edit: April 10, 2017, 05:04:21 pm by Boxcar »
Age: 35
178 lbs 5'8''

Current Treatment: 50 mg testosterone cypionate IM, twice a week
Low T Symptoms: Chronic pelvic pain, and other neuropathic pain.  Mild anxiety, low energy and low motivation
Meds: Amitriptyline (for pain, not depression), Clonidine (for sleep, not blood pressure)

Joe Sixpack

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Fish oil is good stuff, but it eventually caused gastritis for me (with bleeding in the stomach confirmed). Omega 3 supplements have both the benefits and potential side effects of NSAIDS.
Hmm.  I didn't know fish oil could do that.  What were your symptoms of gastritis?  How was it diagnosed?

A gastroscopy confirmed that I had bleeding and inflammation in my stomach. Symptom was chest pains. I was  H pylori negative and never responded to drugs (omeprazole, etc). It is impossible to be 100% certain it was fish oil (flax oil did the same, btw), since it was never an acute effect. But when I stopped the Omega 3 supplements, I slowly got better. It is years later now and I feel mostly recovered, although my stomach is still a bit more sensitive than it was.

I was tipped-off about this by health blogger Chris Masterjohn (who mentioned to me off-handedly about the effects of omega 3 on cox 2). He believes that humans are not meant to eat large amounts of Omega 3 (or any PUFA). He thinks that EPA should be especially avoided, although he advocates taking a small amount of high-vitamin cod liver oil. I was resistant, because I did have benefits from fish oil, but I think that stopping it saved me big time.

Of course lots of people tolerate fish oil just fine. The bottom line is that you want to be aware of the potential for developing stomach issues with omega 3 supplements, especially if you take anti-inflammatory medication or drink a lot of alcohol (neither applied to me, btw).

Thanks for the info Boxcar.  I have recently been having some stomach/esophogus burning issues during the day.  I do take fish oil, so your story caught my attention.  It is pretty common for me to get reflux while I am trying to sleep.  But I never have problems during the daytime, until recently.  I am going to take a fish oil break and see if I get any better. 

I have a suspicion that coffee is irritating me as well.  But I'm not going to give that up without a fight.  I'll try the fishoil first. 
Age: 53, Ht: 5'08", Wt: 150 lbs
Protocol: 40mg T Cyp 3x/week, 300 IU hCG 3x/week, 50mg DHEA + 50mg Pregnenalone daily.
1/2017 test results: TT: 1152 ng/dL (348-1197), FT: 23.7 pg/mL (7.2-24), E2: 22.0 pg/mL sensitive (8.0-35.0)

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