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Author Topic: Anyone doing SubQ DAILY  (Read 1216 times)

doin it

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Anyone doing SubQ DAILY
« on: September 29, 2017, 03:25:53 pm »
Age: 71
Primary Hypogonadism
Low T
High LH
High FSH
Medium high Prolactin
High SHBG
E2=22
5'10, 167

Have tried T cream (disliked) and T Alc Gel which did not much but put DHT over the top (what a number that was), off and on over the last 5 years.

Starting SubQ T soon with the "start low and go slow" mantra.  Also recognizing that Dr. Crisler says that 80 mg SubQ is equivalent to 100 mg IM (which puts a lot of hypo guys in the 500 to 800 range).

I have all the above readings for the last 25 years and when I felt best, was around 500 to 600 ng.

 So, will begin with 50 mg per week which should put me in that range.  I am trying to figure out whether to do every day, EOD, or 2x / week.

IMOPO, recognizing that LH and T release are pulsatile, diurnal, are highest in the am, and then diminish the rest of the day (mine drops by about 22 % by 4:30 pm), I think that the body organs and all those billions of cells get a break from the T in the evening and very early am (B4 3 am).   I have not read this anywhere, just my opinion (do they NEED a break?).  So, I think I would like to do daily but am concerned about all those holes (365 per year; 36,500 10 years, etc.).  Is anyone doing SubQ daily?  If so, any comments would be more than welcome.

Thanks,
Doin it

sasori540

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Re: Anyone doing SubQ DAILY
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2017, 04:06:26 pm »
Hi, sir.
Daily injections are something that similar to topical I guess..
So far I didnít notice any protocol like that.

Btw 71yrs, primary....how did you survive for decades...
As I am primary myself, while Iím only 25.

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Re: Anyone doing SubQ DAILY
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2017, 04:06:26 pm »

doin it

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Re: Anyone doing SubQ DAILY
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2017, 04:24:52 pm »
Was not always hypo (but bounced around 500 to 600 which worked ok for me), it's an age thing, being 65 or 70 does that sometimes.  Hope you are able to resolve your issues.

sasori540

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Re: Anyone doing SubQ DAILY
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2017, 04:39:34 pm »
I saw Mr.L in forum is trying himself the daily shots, maybe you can ask him.
Thx, btw I just finished my first week, no much improvement.
Was not always hypo (but bounced around 500 to 600 which worked ok for me), it's an age thing, being 65 or 70 does that sometimes.  Hope you are able to resolve your issues.

PeakT

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Re: Anyone doing SubQ DAILY
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2017, 05:42:21 pm »
Age: 71
Primary Hypogonadism
Low T
High LH
High FSH
Medium high Prolactin
High SHBG
E2=22
5'10, 167

Have tried T cream (disliked) and T Alc Gel which did not much but put DHT over the top (what a number that was), off and on over the last 5 years.

Starting SubQ T soon with the "start low and go slow" mantra.  Also recognizing that Dr. Crisler says that 80 mg SubQ is equivalent to 100 mg IM (which puts a lot of hypo guys in the 500 to 800 range).

I have all the above readings for the last 25 years and when I felt best, was around 500 to 600 ng.

 So, will begin with 50 mg per week which should put me in that range.  I am trying to figure out whether to do every day, EOD, or 2x / week.

IMOPO, recognizing that LH and T release are pulsatile, diurnal, are highest in the am, and then diminish the rest of the day (mine drops by about 22 % by 4:30 pm), I think that the body organs and all those billions of cells get a break from the T in the evening and very early am (B4 3 am).   I have not read this anywhere, just my opinion (do they NEED a break?).  So, I think I would like to do daily but am concerned about all those holes (365 per year; 36,500 10 years, etc.).  Is anyone doing SubQ daily?  If so, any comments would be more than welcome.

Thanks,
Doin it

If you do only an average of 50 mg/week, be sure to pull your testosterone pretty soon after.
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program.aspx
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

Peak Testosterone Forum

Re: Anyone doing SubQ DAILY
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2017, 05:42:21 pm »


doin it

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Re: Anyone doing SubQ DAILY
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2017, 10:55:22 pm »
Maybe 2 weeks?  3 weeks?

PeakT

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Re: Anyone doing SubQ DAILY
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2017, 10:11:35 am »
Maybe 2 weeks?  3 weeks?

The typical cypionate dose on here is about 100 mg/week + or - a little here or there.

We have had a couple of guys who said their testosterone actually decreased on 50 mg week and their theory was that 50 mg was enough to shut their production down but not enough to raise plasma levels to compensate.  I'm not sure that totally makes sense based to me, but just passing along info.  So that's why I recommend you pull your levels after about 3 weeks (to give time to reach steady state) and see how things are looking.
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program.aspx
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

doin it

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Re: Anyone doing SubQ DAILY
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2017, 12:28:49 pm »
Thanks Peak T

All things considered (including that I did ok on 500 to 600 most of my life), I will probably start with 25 mg 2x/week and in 3 weeks, see what it did.  If not good readings, will bump up to 20 or 25 mg EOD (depending) and see what that does.  Seems like that EOD is starting to trend among those in the know.

I do believe that daily is closest to normal and may graduate to that eventually ( after correction of issues)

It has also crossed my mind that a lot of guys live their whole past life around 500 to 600, never have gotten a T, etc. test, and then develop low T, and some doc starts them out on 800 to 1100 which their organs (heart, etc.) is not used to, which causes organ issues (heart attack, stroke, high BP. etc.).

I will report to this forum what I did and the 3 week readings and what the plan forward is.

Stay tuned...

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Re: Anyone doing SubQ DAILY
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2017, 12:28:49 pm »

PLEASE SUPPORT THE SITE AND GIVE AN AMAZON REVIEW IF POSSIBLE:


HRT Guru

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Re: Anyone doing SubQ DAILY
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2017, 12:51:58 pm »
EOD and daily would contraindicated for high SHBG, but of course you don't post any real numbers in most of your tests so who's to say...."high" doesn't mean anything in and of itself, nor is your approach to a super low-dose advisable whereas your reasoning to do so is flawed anyway.

doin it

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Re: Anyone doing SubQ DAILY
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2017, 07:29:48 pm »
Thanks for your comments, HRTG.  We shall see...

doin it

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Re: Anyone doing SubQ DAILY
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2017, 07:44:04 pm »
HRT Guru,

I went back through the posts in a different string and Sixpack had the same low T dose/SHBG comment.  Do you have an alternate dose suggestion.  Same for Sixpack if he reads this.

Thanks again

Cataceous

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Re: Anyone doing SubQ DAILY
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2017, 08:16:06 pm »
"Contraindicated" is too strong of a term. There's little harm in injecting smaller doses more frequently when SHBG is high. It's just that it's less likely there will be added benefits compared to injecting less frequently. The underlying principle is that higher SHBG increases the effective half life of injected testosterone esters. With higher SHBG you are unlikely to notice subjective differences between EOD and twice-weekly injections, and possibly even weekly injections.

Regarding the concern about the number of needle sticks: if you use insulin syringes with needles in the 29-31 gauge range then the sticks are pretty inconsequential.
I am not a medical doctor; any suggestions are meant to be discussed with your doctor.
Age: 56, Ht: 5'10", Wt: 154 lbs
Protocol: 18 mg T enanthate subQ qod, 250 IU hCG subQ qod, 6.25 mg DHEA orally bid
5/2017 test results: TT: 800 ng/dL (348-1197), FT: 16 pg/mL (7.2-24), E2: 50 pg/mL sensitive (8.0-35.0), DHEA-S: 278 ug/dL (71.6-375.4)

doin it

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Re: Anyone doing SubQ DAILY
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2017, 09:06:15 pm »
Cataceous,
It sounds like you are saying that in the beginning, I should think about a "bolus" of maybe 80 or 100 mg a week for a few weeks to drive down SHBG and then go to EOD/2x per week with a lower dose after SHBG is under control?

It would seem that the higher T would cause higher E2 and since the high SHBG would bind T more than the E2, the T:E2 ratio would be lower, being counterproductive.

But then, SHBG is only binding about what, 60 % of the T with Albumin loosely binding the balance (except the free T; btw, my Albumin is center of the range), so maybe T would win?

So many moving parts...


Cataceous

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Re: Anyone doing SubQ DAILY
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2017, 05:36:34 am »
I wasn't actually suggesting weekly dosing, except for those who really want to minimize the total number of injections. I had SHBG in the low 40s nmol/L when I started TRT, but I still went with EOD injections. SHBG did over time drop to around 30. That's a reasonable point on the estradiol, and another reason to opt for more frequent injections if you can manage them.
I am not a medical doctor; any suggestions are meant to be discussed with your doctor.
Age: 56, Ht: 5'10", Wt: 154 lbs
Protocol: 18 mg T enanthate subQ qod, 250 IU hCG subQ qod, 6.25 mg DHEA orally bid
5/2017 test results: TT: 800 ng/dL (348-1197), FT: 16 pg/mL (7.2-24), E2: 50 pg/mL sensitive (8.0-35.0), DHEA-S: 278 ug/dL (71.6-375.4)

PeakT

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Re: Anyone doing SubQ DAILY
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2017, 05:35:49 am »
Cataceous,
It sounds like you are saying that in the beginning, I should think about a "bolus" of maybe 80 or 100 mg a week for a few weeks to drive down SHBG and then go to EOD/2x per week with a lower dose after SHBG is under control?

It would seem that the higher T would cause higher E2 and since the high SHBG would bind T more than the E2, the T:E2 ratio would be lower, being counterproductive.

But then, SHBG is only binding about what, 60 % of the T with Albumin loosely binding the balance (except the free T; btw, my Albumin is center of the range), so maybe T would win?

So many moving parts...

I wouldn't worry too much about the numbers.  You just have to experiment with once per week versus more frequent injections to see which one helps you feel better.  No good way to predict it.
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program.aspx
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

Peak Testosterone Forum

Re: Anyone doing SubQ DAILY
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2017, 05:35:49 am »