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Author Topic: Did oral pregnenolone raise my Co2 thru raising aldosterone??  (Read 603 times)

53chevy

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So I've been fighting a low Co2 issue for 2.5 years now and have not been able to figure it out. I believe this is why I feel like utter shit because when your body is in an acidic state it screws up all metabolic processes.

I thought it was a liver issue because I've been taking supps for the liver and felt some improvement but then plateaued after a couple weeks and my latest labs shows no improvement in my Co2 levels. The liver supps took me from feeling like I was at 30-40% to about 60-70%. It gave me more energy and a little more desire to get off my butt and do things and the crushing fatigue disappeared but if I get too busy doing things I'll pay for it for the next couple of days with tiredness and just general feeling like I was hit by a train. I'm feeling it today by the way from being too active yesterday.

By the way labcorp has just changed the low end of the range to 20 for Co2 and I'm now officially low in Co2 according to them. Other labs have the bottom of the range at 22 and I've been at 18-20 for most of the last 2.5 years.

Anyway, I was looking thru some old labs this week and saw where my Co2 jumped up to 23 on two different sets of labs at the beginning of this year. This was the same time I was megadosing oral preg. My preg was at 28 and I wanted to get it up quite a bit just to see what happened. The only thing that happened was I got to the top of the range on preg, my prog levels went way over range at 2.7 and I had completely forgotten that it raised my Co2 from 18 to 23.

Long story short I've been studying specifically on low co2/acidosis again this week and saw addison's disease mentioned which lead me to aldosterone. Apparently aldosterone helps the kidneys get rid of acid and if you are low on aldosterone then this can make for an acidic blood ph. Co2, which is mostly bicarbonate in the blood, buffers against acids to keep the blood at a certain ph and when it does this because of an acid overload your Co2 levels will drop.

I already know that without supplements my cortisol and dhea are at the lower end of the range so I'm thinking it's possible that aldosterone could be low too since it is produced in the adrenals also and when I megadosed preg it could have brought my aldosterone levels up which would have made my kidneys get rid of more acids which would bring up my Co2 levels. Mind you, trt did wonders for me for about 3 months and then like a switch that somebody turned off it completely quit having any benefit for me at all. I hear all the time that trt can shut down or partially shut down other hormone systems and it appears that it did so to my adrenals. I don't completely understand how trt can shut down other hormones but I do know that some doctors, including Crisler, believe that we have to backfill the pathways with preg and other supps because of this. Also, trt should be called hrt because it seems we have to manage a lot more than just T!

I'm curious if anybody else has had low or lowish aldosterone levels, what were your symptoms, what did you do to bring them up and did you feel any benefits from raising your levels.

I'll be getting aldosterone tested tomorrow and should have the results by the end of the week. I'm at the end of my rope here so I've never hoped for a low reading on a test more than I am now!! Lol

Joe Sixpack

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Re: Did oral pregnenolone raise my Co2 thru raising aldosterone??
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2018, 06:34:00 pm »
http://www.peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=11540.msg99789#msg99789

Wanted to post this message and my response from a member who PM'd me:

Mr. K,

It seems to me that you know a fair amount about cortisol judging by your posts.  I hope you don't mind me picking your brain.  I've been having some challenges with my overt all wellbeing or at least perceived wellbeing. I'm wondering if it could have something to do with cortisol.  I've struggled with low bp and orthostatic hypotension off and on foot several years now. Sometimes it's worse than others but it isn't as bad now as it used to be but send to be getting worse again.  Now I mostly have trouble of I get up too fast and when I try exercises like squats or burpies. I get really light headed and dizzy and have been sweating profusely and get really out of breath.  It can be embarrassing at the gym. I've been doing these exercises for about 8 months twice a week and it seems to be getting harder rather than easier  There was a time that I couldn't stand in one place for very long or I would pass out (I have a standing desk).  I was a little under weight then and my doc thought that was the problem.  (But I've always had more trouble with it than most people). Anyway do you know if trt can interfere with cortisol?  My sister has adrenal insufficiency and low hgh and her thyroid is nonexistent. Some of this is related to her disability. However I wonder how much of this comes from our father.  He was a Ranger in Vietnam and was exposed to lots of agent orange. He passed away lady year from esophageal cancer and had other conditions related to the exposure. I know I'm rambling and I probably didn't tell you everything I wanted to.  Also I've written this on my phone so I apologize if it is a mess. I just wanted to start a dialogue because I keep putting it off.

My response:

You're describing what sounds more like a low aldosterone problem than a low cortisol one, particularly given the orthostatic hypotension and profuse sweating.  Low aldosterone often goes with low cortisol, though.  But regarding your question about TRT, the answer is unambiguously yes that cortisol can and often is lowered, both because testosterone (not so much hCG or not at all clomid) drops LH and FSH to zero, and these hormones with ACTH are responsible for synthesizing pregnenolone from cholesterol; so the less LH and FSH (and ACTH), the less pregnenolone.  There are also much more complicated ways exogenous T can lower cortisol (and to some degree aldosterone) involving adrenal enzyme downregulations, but I think the big mechanism is the zeroed out LH and FSH.
Age: 55, Ht: 5'08", Wt: 155 lbs
Protocol: 30mg T Cyp + 30 IU HCG M,W,F + 2 clicks T Cream + 15mg DHEA + 15mg Pregnenalone daily.
1/2018 test results: TT: 1123 ng/dL (264-916), FT: 22.6 pg/mL (7.2-24), E2: 37.3 pg/mL sensitive (8.0-35.0)

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Re: Did oral pregnenolone raise my Co2 thru raising aldosterone??
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2018, 06:34:00 pm »


53chevy

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Re: Did oral pregnenolone raise my Co2 thru raising aldosterone??
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2018, 07:58:31 pm »
I don't suffer from orthotic hypotension, my BP is actually higher since I've been on trt, but I just read that even tho low BP is a sign it frequently causes high BP also. Interesting. I do sweat a ton. I sweat profusely when no one else around me is. I guess I'll know for sure in a few days if I'm low or even lowish.

53chevy

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Re: Did oral pregnenolone raise my Co2 thru raising aldosterone??
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2018, 09:54:18 am »
Just got my labs back. I've never been so happy to see a low lab value! My aldosterone is right down at the bottom. This was an AM draw and aldosterone is diurnal just like cortisol and should be higher in the morning. I'm at 1.3 ng/dL (0-30). I've read in a couple places that normal people are at midrange or slightly higher.

What I don't understand is my renin is also at the bottom of the range. It was. 556 (.167-5.380). I need to read up on renin more to fully understand the chain of command on it but I figured it would be high if my aldosterone is low. My kidney labs always look good and I just had a urinalysis a couple weeks ago that was good so I don't think there's anything wrong with my kidneys.

I'm gonna do a little more studying but I think it's time to try some florinef and see what happens. My only concern is I don't want my BP going up anymore. It has went up since I got on trt and I don't know why. I was always 120/70 but now it's 130s/80ish. I'll post back in a few weeks with an update.

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Re: Did oral pregnenolone raise my Co2 thru raising aldosterone??
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2018, 09:54:18 am »


Flyingfool

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Re: Did oral pregnenolone raise my Co2 thru raising aldosterone??
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2018, 10:28:02 am »
florinef

Sounds like this could contain Fluoride. If so keep track of rhyroid numbers as Fluoride is known to decrease thyroid  function.   In fact becore other medicarions, Fluoride was used as a medication for hyperthyroidism to lower thyroid levels.

I believe in the UK and other nations and cities, where they remove Fluoride from the water, there is a corresponding increase in thyroid levels and lower occurrence of hypothyroidism.

Internal consumption of Fluoride has been repeatedly proven to doNOTHING to help teeth or lrecent cavities. So taxpayers payimg for the routine ingestion of a known neurological toxin for the FALSE belief it helps teeth is insane!  Yet we do it widespread in the USA. It is crazy.
52 year old, 5-7 and 165 lbs.
exercise:swim 3x/wk & marrial arts 2x/wk

Blood tested 9/19/18

Total = 580 ng/dL (250-827) 59.9%
Free T= 6.87 (4.6- 22.4) 12.8% (10.8 calc)

SHBG= 39 10.0-50.0) 72.5%

Bio-avail= 14.2 (110-575) 8.0%

DHES =not tested %

Estradiol = 22 (<39)

DHES =231 (38-313) =45.5% tested 2/14/18

Currently on 50mcg Synthroid (T4)
TSH = 0.99
Free T4 = 1.30 (0.80 - 1.80)  =50.0% of range
Free T3 = 3.3 (2.3-4.2) = 52.6% of range
Current protocol: 100mg DIM once per day. Reduction back from 200 mg. For 12 weeks. raised total T, freeT remained basically unchanged due to increases SHBG. Estradiol decrease from 30 to 22. Felt no better and maybe worse than at 100mg DIM so going back starting 9/25/18

Joe Sixpack

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Re: Did oral pregnenolone raise my Co2 thru raising aldosterone??
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2018, 04:09:44 pm »
ARe you on HCG?  TRT w/out HCG dramatically decreased my adrenal hormones.  Even with HCG I feel like I am too low on adrenal output.  But it is more tolerable being on TRT w/ the HCG.  Without HCG I had to stop taking testosterone.  My cortisol was so low as to be unbearable. 

Anyway, if you are not on HCG your adrenal and aldosterone might be likewise suppressed as shown in your labs.  I suspect I would have low aldosterone if I tested it. 

I am not familiar with Florinef.  Why would you take it instead of Cortef, which from what I understand is cortisol in pill form.
Age: 55, Ht: 5'08", Wt: 155 lbs
Protocol: 30mg T Cyp + 30 IU HCG M,W,F + 2 clicks T Cream + 15mg DHEA + 15mg Pregnenalone daily.
1/2018 test results: TT: 1123 ng/dL (264-916), FT: 22.6 pg/mL (7.2-24), E2: 37.3 pg/mL sensitive (8.0-35.0)

53chevy

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Re: Did oral pregnenolone raise my Co2 thru raising aldosterone??
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2018, 06:22:24 pm »
HCG does nothing for me except keep my balls from disappearing. I've been using it faithfully til about 6 months ago and quit it. I'll probably start it back at some point just to inflate my balls a little bit. My dhea and cortisol were always at the bottom of the range whether on or off hcg until I started taking dhea and preg or prog cream so hcg doesn't do much of anything for me. As long as I take dhea and preg my dhea and cortisol are fine. It seems most of the preg goes straight to prog with me. I was megadosing preg at 600-900 mg a day and all I saw it do on labs was jack my prog up to 2.7 and raise my Co2 some. Dhea didn't go up any but I'm assuming aldosterone did a little bit since my Co2 went up.

I'm pretty sure I'm primary and my balls just don't make much of anything. I quit trt for about 3 months at the end of 2016 and while my LH was over the top of the range all my balls could muster was about 400 or so in T. It also seems trt does a number on my adrenals for whatever reason.

Cortisol and aldosterone are two different hormones. I don't need to raise cortisol so no need for cortef. Florinef is for aldosterone. From what I understand it's just one molecule changed but florinef seems to have some glucocorticoid properties as well as mineralcorticoid properties. I also read a thing that said every once in a while some people get the full benefit of both from florinef but usually florinef will only effect aldosterone.

I just found natural bio identical aldosterone and I'm seriously thinking about giving it a try instead of the synthetic version.

Joe Sixpack

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Re: Did oral pregnenolone raise my Co2 thru raising aldosterone??
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2018, 05:55:47 pm »

Cortisol and aldosterone are two different hormones. I don't need to raise cortisol so no need for cortef. Florinef is for aldosterone. From what I understand it's just one molecule changed but florinef seems to have some glucocorticoid properties as well as mineralcorticoid properties. I also read a thing that said every once in a while some people get the full benefit of both from florinef but usually florinef will only effect aldosterone.

I just found natural bio identical aldosterone and I'm seriously thinking about giving it a try instead of the synthetic version.
Thanks for the info on Florinef/cortef.  Didn't know that. 

What is the bio identical aldosterone you are looking at?  I am wondering if I have low aldosterone as well. 
Age: 55, Ht: 5'08", Wt: 155 lbs
Protocol: 30mg T Cyp + 30 IU HCG M,W,F + 2 clicks T Cream + 15mg DHEA + 15mg Pregnenalone daily.
1/2018 test results: TT: 1123 ng/dL (264-916), FT: 22.6 pg/mL (7.2-24), E2: 37.3 pg/mL sensitive (8.0-35.0)

53chevy

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Re: Did oral pregnenolone raise my Co2 thru raising aldosterone??
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2018, 08:55:38 pm »
It's called Aldo pro and Aldo spray. It is not cheap. The pill form is outrageously priced but the spray isn't too bad. I can't find any reviews on it so I'm not sure I'm gonna mess with it. Its like 75 for 15 tablets at 125 mcg each. If you do the usual 125 mcg per day dose that would be 150 a month. If you needed more than that then be prepared to pay dearly compared to florinef. The liquid oral and spray is I think 60 and there's like 50 doses at 125 mcg per day per bottle so that's doable but I'd hate to waste time and money on something that's bogus. If you find any reviews on it let me know. I have found 90 tablets of florinef at 100 mcg for around 60 or so shipped. It's a lot cheaper.

Joe Sixpack

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Re: Did oral pregnenolone raise my Co2 thru raising aldosterone??
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2018, 02:46:43 pm »
It's called Aldo pro and Aldo spray. It is not cheap. The pill form is outrageously priced but the spray isn't too bad. I can't find any reviews on it so I'm not sure I'm gonna mess with it. Its like 75 for 15 tablets at 125 mcg each. If you do the usual 125 mcg per day dose that would be 150 a month. If you needed more than that then be prepared to pay dearly compared to florinef. The liquid oral and spray is I think 60 and there's like 50 doses at 125 mcg per day per bottle so that's doable but I'd hate to waste time and money on something that's bogus. If you find any reviews on it let me know. I have found 90 tablets of florinef at 100 mcg for around 60 or so shipped. It's a lot cheaper.

Good to know.  Too bad florinef requires an RX.  PM me if you know of a pharmacy that doesn't require one.
Age: 55, Ht: 5'08", Wt: 155 lbs
Protocol: 30mg T Cyp + 30 IU HCG M,W,F + 2 clicks T Cream + 15mg DHEA + 15mg Pregnenalone daily.
1/2018 test results: TT: 1123 ng/dL (264-916), FT: 22.6 pg/mL (7.2-24), E2: 37.3 pg/mL sensitive (8.0-35.0)

53chevy

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Re: Did oral pregnenolone raise my Co2 thru raising aldosterone??
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2018, 06:35:17 pm »
Sent you a pm. I might have discovered last night why my bp has went up since being on trt. Low aldosterone can make you retain fluids. My hands and feet are always slightly swollen. Well yesterday I spent all day outside. It's hot and very humid here in TN right now and I ended up losing 5 lbs yesterday. Yes it's mostly water weight I'm sure. Well last night I noticed my hands weren't swollen at all, my fingers actually felt skinny. I've also noticed for the last year or more that when I'm in the shower I have trouble reaching the back of my neck to wash it. It's like my biceps and shoulders are swollen and I just can't reach it. I had no trouble at all last night washing my neck. So when I got out of the shower I checked my BP and low and behold it's back to normal, 120/70 or lower. I cheked it several times and once it was 109/68, its never been that low in my life. So I'm thinking that the low aldosterone is the reason for the rise in my BP due to retaining fluids. What's confusing is aldosterone itself will cause you to retain sodium and therefore water so it seems like once I get my aldosterone back up I'm gonna retain even more water. Maybe they mean high aldosterone can make you retain more water than usually and normal levels of aldosterone will actually make me retain less. Time will tell!

Joe Sixpack

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Re: Did oral pregnenolone raise my Co2 thru raising aldosterone??
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2018, 08:10:59 pm »
Yeah I was thinking that low aldosterone would mean that you shed water and high aldo would cause you to retain it.  But I don't know for sure.  Might have to google that one.
Age: 55, Ht: 5'08", Wt: 155 lbs
Protocol: 30mg T Cyp + 30 IU HCG M,W,F + 2 clicks T Cream + 15mg DHEA + 15mg Pregnenalone daily.
1/2018 test results: TT: 1123 ng/dL (264-916), FT: 22.6 pg/mL (7.2-24), E2: 37.3 pg/mL sensitive (8.0-35.0)

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Re: Did oral pregnenolone raise my Co2 thru raising aldosterone??
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2018, 08:10:59 pm »