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Author Topic: Topical Gels/Creams Vs Injections???  (Read 505 times)

jth0524

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Topical Gels/Creams Vs Injections???
« on: November 12, 2017, 09:48:11 am »
This goes out to the few and the proud that chose topical creams or gels over injections. What lead to your decision to choose creams/gels over injections? Can you be specific as to the factors such as mood, libido, blood work, energy, estrogen management, more stable blood levels that might have lead to your decision? Thanks in advance.

gimmeabreak

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Re: Topical Gels/Creams Vs Injections???
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2017, 06:55:34 pm »
I started on topicals as part of my doctors recommendation. I didn't absorb it very well so I was switched to injections. I found the cream to be a pain in the ass. You had to apply it every morning. Then you can't shower for minimum of 4 hours so after. So workingboutvsnd everything was a pain in the ass. Then I had to be diligent about not contaminating my wife and daughter.

The idea of cream is great due to the fact that it closely Mimics natural testosterone levels. But I much prefer injectables.

Sorry if I put a negative spin on it but that's the reality of my experience.
38 years old/ 180lbs.


April 2016 - 50mg test cypionate 2x week
                - 100 iu HCG ed
                - 25 mg DHEA daily
               
Sleep apnea - CPAP

- Former natural physique competitor
- switched from weightlifting to gymnastics in January 2016
- diet: some what paleo based. Lots of veggies, no sugar, no grains, fish, chicken, beef. (I use wild, grass fed, free range and hormone free whenever possible)

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Re: Topical Gels/Creams Vs Injections???
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2017, 06:55:34 pm »

cujet

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Re: Topical Gels/Creams Vs Injections???
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2017, 08:16:24 pm »
I seem to have issues with injections causing coughing fits. It's one possible side effect, and I seem to be prone to it. Some think that a small amount of the carrier oil gets into the bloodstream and causes micro-embolisms in the lungs. It happens to me an hour to a day after injection. Sometimes later in the week. I've not tried Subcutaneous injections with any seriousness.

I also tend to retain far more water on injections.

I am currently using compounded T cream. I find it easy to apply after a morning shower. It dries/absorbs within minutes, I get dressed and go to work. It's easy to maintain my T levels at 700 or so. And I'm seriously horny, far more so than when using injections.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2017, 08:20:22 pm by cujet »
54 years old
Autoimmune Hashimoto's, near zero natural T production
Cause: severe mononucleosis in my early 30's
Weight 200
Height 5' 10"
Very active, daily workouts and some cardio.
Topical 0.75g compounded 10% T cream, rotated daily to shaved armpits, shaved shoulders, remainder on scrotum
190mg NPthyroid (natural dessicated pigs thyroid)
Labs (Oct 2017) , my T=730, TSH 0.03, T3+T4 mid-range normal.


Daily workouts with weights, low-glycemic diet, high in clean protein, very low carb (salad/fish/low fat meats, uncooked veggies, nothing else, ever) Carbs/starch can cause me to have intestinal problems, so I avoid them.

PeakT

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Re: Topical Gels/Creams Vs Injections???
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2017, 02:07:47 pm »
This goes out to the few and the proud that chose topical creams or gels over injections. What lead to your decision to choose creams/gels over injections? Can you be specific as to the factors such as mood, libido, blood work, energy, estrogen management, more stable blood levels that might have lead to your decision? Thanks in advance.

No one gave this as a reason, but some enjoy that libido-boost from the extra DHT (of transdermals) and thus feel better.
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program.aspx
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

Peak Testosterone Forum

Re: Topical Gels/Creams Vs Injections???
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2017, 02:07:47 pm »


ghce

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Re: Topical Gels/Creams Vs Injections???
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2017, 06:47:45 pm »
For me the thought of 40 plus more years on injections is totally insane so compounded cream is a much more viable alternative, I did try one step easier with oral Andriol but found that it did nothing for ED libido or nocturnal erections, in fact all got worse than no TRT.

Currently I have a newborn baby and a wife, I have had zero problems with managing  accidental cross contamination and like Cujet have found absorption is extremely rapid and dries almost instantly after a shower. ED is gone, nocturnal erections are at an even better rate than at 13 or 14 years old and libido is very good with sex normally 3 times daily.

If you find absorption a problem you can always apply to the scrotum to get 5 to 8 times the absorption of other body areas and with the huge bonus of over the top DHT. Others have found that applying to the scrotum every 3rd day (which I am currently doing also) has a maximal effect for libido long term.

Another huge benefit for me has been the rapid loss of body fat and the fast gain in muscles which all has been achieved at zero physical effort another gain has been increased energy levels.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2017, 06:51:03 pm by ghce »
Age:56, Height 6' 3" weight 92.5KG
2014 Androderm Patches
2014-2016 Andriol 160mg
June 2016 Clomid/Serophene 12.5mg EOD
September 2016 no TRT all natural and supplements for the time being
February 2017 Testosterone cream 100mg daily

Sept 2016
Testosterone   8.2 nmol/l   9-38
Free Testosterone   239 pmol/l   L   250-800
SHBG:  14    nmol/L   9-60
Free Androgen index   586   >400
Oestradiol    112   pmol/L    <190
LH    2.6 IU/L Adult male   2 - 9 IU/L
FSH  1.4 IU/L Adult male L2 - 12 IU/L

22 November
T 6.8  nmol/L ( 9-38 ) L

March 2017
Testosterone:   45.0  nmol/L ( 9-38 ) H ( 1,323 ng/dl )
Free Testosterone:   1512  pmol/L ( 250-800 ) H
SHBG:   17  nmol/L ( 9-60 )
Plasma IGF-1:   227 ug/L ( 55-198 ) H
Plasma cortisol:   434 nmol/L ( 0600-1000 hrs 170-500 nmol/L )
HbA1c:   36 mmol/mol ( 20-40 )
LH:   <0.1 IU/L
FSH:   0.1 IU/L
DHT Plasma Dihydrotestosterone:   7455   pmol/L ( 223 ng/dl ) 

Reference Range Adult males  1000-6000 pmol/L

gimmeabreak

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Re: Topical Gels/Creams Vs Injections???
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2017, 08:04:10 pm »
I even tried the scrotal application. Still didnít get me over 400. I wonder why I didnít absorb well.
38 years old/ 180lbs.


April 2016 - 50mg test cypionate 2x week
                - 100 iu HCG ed
                - 25 mg DHEA daily
               
Sleep apnea - CPAP

- Former natural physique competitor
- switched from weightlifting to gymnastics in January 2016
- diet: some what paleo based. Lots of veggies, no sugar, no grains, fish, chicken, beef. (I use wild, grass fed, free range and hormone free whenever possible)

cujet

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Re: Topical Gels/Creams Vs Injections???
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2017, 04:59:53 am »
I even tried the scrotal application. Still didnít get me over 400. I wonder why I didnít absorb well.

I do shave my shoulders, armpits and scrotum and inner thighs. As I rotate application sites, or sometimes apply on all. I use just a touch of witch hazel to cut it and make it apply smoothly.  I can easily get my T levels anywhere on the scale, including way too high for me (over 1200) . Seems dose dependent.
54 years old
Autoimmune Hashimoto's, near zero natural T production
Cause: severe mononucleosis in my early 30's
Weight 200
Height 5' 10"
Very active, daily workouts and some cardio.
Topical 0.75g compounded 10% T cream, rotated daily to shaved armpits, shaved shoulders, remainder on scrotum
190mg NPthyroid (natural dessicated pigs thyroid)
Labs (Oct 2017) , my T=730, TSH 0.03, T3+T4 mid-range normal.


Daily workouts with weights, low-glycemic diet, high in clean protein, very low carb (salad/fish/low fat meats, uncooked veggies, nothing else, ever) Carbs/starch can cause me to have intestinal problems, so I avoid them.

labatts03

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Re: Topical Gels/Creams Vs Injections???
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2017, 08:30:05 am »
count me as on of the non absorbers or maybe just bad protocol.  I was placed on 4 mg of Testcream.  My numbers peaked at 384 (blood drawn an hour within applying) Next test was 348, decided to try defy, they told me to test four hours after application and my number was 200, and my LH etc where normal.  I always felt it was not working.  Why did I choose cream?  I was afraid of needles and injecting, and felt creams would be easier.  I do have a wife and young children, I never had a reason to believe that they would come in contact with the medicines. 

I am in the third week into my new protocol, which is daily injections (see below).  I am almost into my fourth week.  I definitely feel a difference.  My muscles have gotten much bigger on light exercise (Sprained my ankle).  I have also gained a lot of weight, which is disheartening because I worked so hard to lose the weight, but picked up about 8 pounds and my blood pressure has increased.  Likely water retention but hoping I can reverse this because if not I will have to take HTN meds.
Current Treatment:
.17 ml 100 mg/ml Test Prop ED
400 units of 1100 HCG Twice a week
.15 Airimedx EOD
Starting T 200
Current T:  unknown

TRT4ME

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Re: Topical Gels/Creams Vs Injections???
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2017, 09:00:52 am »
Cost. Injections are so much cheaper

ghce

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Re: Topical Gels/Creams Vs Injections???
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2017, 03:30:02 pm »
It costs me about US$100 every approx 4 to 5 months, more expensive than injections? Seems cheaper to me.
Age:56, Height 6' 3" weight 92.5KG
2014 Androderm Patches
2014-2016 Andriol 160mg
June 2016 Clomid/Serophene 12.5mg EOD
September 2016 no TRT all natural and supplements for the time being
February 2017 Testosterone cream 100mg daily

Sept 2016
Testosterone   8.2 nmol/l   9-38
Free Testosterone   239 pmol/l   L   250-800
SHBG:  14    nmol/L   9-60
Free Androgen index   586   >400
Oestradiol    112   pmol/L    <190
LH    2.6 IU/L Adult male   2 - 9 IU/L
FSH  1.4 IU/L Adult male L2 - 12 IU/L

22 November
T 6.8  nmol/L ( 9-38 ) L

March 2017
Testosterone:   45.0  nmol/L ( 9-38 ) H ( 1,323 ng/dl )
Free Testosterone:   1512  pmol/L ( 250-800 ) H
SHBG:   17  nmol/L ( 9-60 )
Plasma IGF-1:   227 ug/L ( 55-198 ) H
Plasma cortisol:   434 nmol/L ( 0600-1000 hrs 170-500 nmol/L )
HbA1c:   36 mmol/mol ( 20-40 )
LH:   <0.1 IU/L
FSH:   0.1 IU/L
DHT Plasma Dihydrotestosterone:   7455   pmol/L ( 223 ng/dl ) 

Reference Range Adult males  1000-6000 pmol/L

PeakT

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Re: Topical Gels/Creams Vs Injections???
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2017, 09:36:54 am »
It costs me about US$100 every approx 4 to 5 months, more expensive than injections? Seems cheaper to me.

That is very cheap.  How do you pull that off?  Back in the day, mine was about $60 per month from what I remember.
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program.aspx
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

anton3196

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Re: Topical Gels/Creams Vs Injections???
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2017, 10:58:10 am »
I didn't feel like myself on topical but that might very well be because my estrogen was pretty low when I used it.. Also I wasn't absorbing good I was using 2 clicks of 20% topical and got only 300-400 T which was nuts I see some of you get better numbers on androgel which is low % topical. I much prefer the injectable because i had to shave like every other day just to be able to apply topical to non hairy area (I am hairy all over) which sucked. the only good thing my injection spots probably healed up from doing shots 5 years.
I think topicals work better for libido and erections than cypionate though
« Last Edit: November 18, 2017, 11:05:35 am by anton3196 »

cujet

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Re: Topical Gels/Creams Vs Injections???
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2017, 07:34:48 pm »
count me as on of the non absorbers or maybe just bad protocol.  I was placed on 4 mg of Testcream.   

The following is what I think, and may or may not be correct: (please correct me if I am in error) The healthy human male (with good T levels) produces about 6-7 mg of T per day. We absorb at best, 10% of any transdermal concoction. That means that at least 70mg needs to be applied to clean application sites. I've found that includes being devoid of hair at the application site. I've been at this for a very long time now. Numbers are significantly better and far more reliable results happen when I shave the application site.

Interestingly, I apply about 750mg 10% T (75mg of which is T) and get a level of 700+. In other words, 700=700 when using 10% cream.

I find it unsurprising that sub-par protocols fail.

For example, Axiron contains 30mg of T, applied under the arms. Take a guess what my levels were on it? Yup, near 400, when using a little extra. That stuff is so watery, it's nearly impossible to apply a double dose under the arms.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2017, 07:37:39 pm by cujet »
54 years old
Autoimmune Hashimoto's, near zero natural T production
Cause: severe mononucleosis in my early 30's
Weight 200
Height 5' 10"
Very active, daily workouts and some cardio.
Topical 0.75g compounded 10% T cream, rotated daily to shaved armpits, shaved shoulders, remainder on scrotum
190mg NPthyroid (natural dessicated pigs thyroid)
Labs (Oct 2017) , my T=730, TSH 0.03, T3+T4 mid-range normal.


Daily workouts with weights, low-glycemic diet, high in clean protein, very low carb (salad/fish/low fat meats, uncooked veggies, nothing else, ever) Carbs/starch can cause me to have intestinal problems, so I avoid them.

ghce

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Re: Topical Gels/Creams Vs Injections???
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2017, 01:26:00 am »
count me as on of the non absorbers or maybe just bad protocol.  I was placed on 4 mg of Testcream.   

The following is what I think, and may or may not be correct: (please correct me if I am in error) The healthy human male (with good T levels) produces about 6-7 mg of T per day. We absorb at best, 10% of any transdermal concoction. That means that at least 70mg needs to be applied to clean application sites. I've found that includes being devoid of hair at the application site. I've been at this for a very long time now. Numbers are significantly better and far more reliable results happen when I shave the application site.

Interestingly, I apply about 750mg 10% T (75mg of which is T) and get a level of 700+. In other words, 700=700 when using 10% cream.

I find it unsurprising that sub-par protocols fail.

For example, Axiron contains 30mg of T, applied under the arms. Take a guess what my levels were on it? Yup, near 400, when using a little extra. That stuff is so watery, it's nearly impossible to apply a double dose under the arms.

Likewise I apply about 1.25mL of 100 gm per gm T cream and get approx 1,300 so similar absorption rates.

If you use too little and too low concentration you will be far worse than than being on no TRT at all.
Age:56, Height 6' 3" weight 92.5KG
2014 Androderm Patches
2014-2016 Andriol 160mg
June 2016 Clomid/Serophene 12.5mg EOD
September 2016 no TRT all natural and supplements for the time being
February 2017 Testosterone cream 100mg daily

Sept 2016
Testosterone   8.2 nmol/l   9-38
Free Testosterone   239 pmol/l   L   250-800
SHBG:  14    nmol/L   9-60
Free Androgen index   586   >400
Oestradiol    112   pmol/L    <190
LH    2.6 IU/L Adult male   2 - 9 IU/L
FSH  1.4 IU/L Adult male L2 - 12 IU/L

22 November
T 6.8  nmol/L ( 9-38 ) L

March 2017
Testosterone:   45.0  nmol/L ( 9-38 ) H ( 1,323 ng/dl )
Free Testosterone:   1512  pmol/L ( 250-800 ) H
SHBG:   17  nmol/L ( 9-60 )
Plasma IGF-1:   227 ug/L ( 55-198 ) H
Plasma cortisol:   434 nmol/L ( 0600-1000 hrs 170-500 nmol/L )
HbA1c:   36 mmol/mol ( 20-40 )
LH:   <0.1 IU/L
FSH:   0.1 IU/L
DHT Plasma Dihydrotestosterone:   7455   pmol/L ( 223 ng/dl ) 

Reference Range Adult males  1000-6000 pmol/L

cujet

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Re: Topical Gels/Creams Vs Injections???
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2017, 05:55:49 am »


Likewise I apply about 1.25mL of 100 gm per gm T cream and get approx 1,300 so similar absorption rates.

If you use too little and too low concentration you will be far worse than than being on no TRT at all.

It's good to have additional data points. Thanks. It might help to explain why prescription, commercially available topical T replacement drugs don't have a good reputation. As insufficient T is being applied.
54 years old
Autoimmune Hashimoto's, near zero natural T production
Cause: severe mononucleosis in my early 30's
Weight 200
Height 5' 10"
Very active, daily workouts and some cardio.
Topical 0.75g compounded 10% T cream, rotated daily to shaved armpits, shaved shoulders, remainder on scrotum
190mg NPthyroid (natural dessicated pigs thyroid)
Labs (Oct 2017) , my T=730, TSH 0.03, T3+T4 mid-range normal.


Daily workouts with weights, low-glycemic diet, high in clean protein, very low carb (salad/fish/low fat meats, uncooked veggies, nothing else, ever) Carbs/starch can cause me to have intestinal problems, so I avoid them.

Peak Testosterone Forum

Re: Topical Gels/Creams Vs Injections???
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2017, 05:55:49 am »