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Author Topic: Newbie here  (Read 215 times)

Tebori

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Newbie here
« on: August 08, 2018, 12:53:03 pm »
So for the past several years Iíve had many symptoms that doctors havenít  been able to figure out. Not once did any test my testosterone levels either. It wasnít until recently that I took a body builder friends advice to get them checked.  My level was 281. I immediately did some research and started vitamin d and neugenix. In the mean time I scheduled an appointment with a HOrmon therapy center.  My results for that test was 431 and estradiol of 17.1.  Iíve read about how TRT is not a good idea unless you are truly low. So how do I know with such a drastic difference between the two? My dhea was also low at 181 or so they say it is low. My iron is 56 but ferritin is 304. Anyway. Iím just very confused and now sure how to proceed.  Thanks Iím adavnce for any help!

Cataceous

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Re: Newbie here
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2018, 06:54:04 pm »
Time of day can be important for testosterone levels, with higher values usually seen in the morning. Some other tests to consideróespecially SHBG: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Testosterone_Tests.aspx
I am not a medical doctor; any suggestions are meant to be discussed with your doctor.
Age: 57, Ht: 5'10", Wt: 158 lbs
Protocol: 18 mg T enanthate subQ qod, 250 IU hCG subQ qod, 50 mcg anastrozole qod, 6.25 mg DHEA orally bid, 4 mg preg. orally qd
7/2018 test results: TT: 800 ng/dL, E2: 50 pg/mL immunoassay, DHEA-S: 264 ug/dL (49-344)óSHBG ~30 nmol/L

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Re: Newbie here
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2018, 06:54:04 pm »

Flyingfool

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Re: Newbie here
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2018, 07:45:13 pm »
How old are you?

Even with a test of 400 if younger than say 50 or 60 years old it is still pretty low!

I personally am skeptical about the low T clinics. As they seem only to be on a one track mindset of selling Testosterone. If you are a hammer the whole world looks like a nail.

I would only trust reputable clinics with long track record of  success and specializing in hormones and aging in general, such as Defy.

Have you had your thyroid levels check. And that means more than just TSH test!  If rhey didnt test for free T4 and free T3, then in my opinion they have not thought about the whole picture and only focused in on Testosterone.
51 year old, 5í-7Ē and 165 lbs.
exercise:swim 3x/wk & marrial arts 2x/wk

Blood tested 6/26/18

Total = 438 ng/dL (220-813) 55.7%
Free T= 7.47 (5.6-21) 12.1%

SHBG= 44.6 (10.0-57.0) 73.6%

Bio-avail= 175 (131-682) 8.0%

DHES =not tested %

Estradiol = 30 (0-56) 53.6%


DHES =231 (38-313) =45.5% tested 2/14/18

Currently on 50mcg Synthroid (T4)
TSH = 0.632
Free T4 = 1.07  ( 0.78-2.19) =20.6 % of range
Free T3 = 4.25 (2.77-5.27) = 59.2 % of range

Past protocol: began 4/13/18) 100mg DIM once per day. 9weeks. raised total T, freeT remained unchanged due to increases SHBG. Estradiol significant decrease from 41 to 30.

Current protocol: 6/30/18 increased DIM to 200mg. Split half in AM, other half early PM

Tebori

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Re: Newbie here
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2018, 08:11:19 am »
I am 41 years old and I went to a eurologist first then I went to a place called biorestore. They focus on a lot of things having to do with hormones not just test. They tested a lot of things including thyroid. I donít have the results with me as I am out of town right now but I know my tsh is 1.44 my t4 free is 1.41 and my t3 free is 2.9. T4 was 8.4. 

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Re: Newbie here
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2018, 08:11:19 am »


Flyingfool

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Re: Newbie here
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2018, 10:06:54 am »
What symptoms are you having that prompted you to go to the hormone clinic and get tested?

Without reference ranges it is a bit speculative, but if the ranges are typical, it would suggest that your thyroid is NOT completely out of line. In fact they look pretty good.

Do yiu expect to get testosterone and other lab data back soon?  If so please post all the reaults alomg with the reference ranges. That will help get the most quality responses back to you.
51 year old, 5í-7Ē and 165 lbs.
exercise:swim 3x/wk & marrial arts 2x/wk

Blood tested 6/26/18

Total = 438 ng/dL (220-813) 55.7%
Free T= 7.47 (5.6-21) 12.1%

SHBG= 44.6 (10.0-57.0) 73.6%

Bio-avail= 175 (131-682) 8.0%

DHES =not tested %

Estradiol = 30 (0-56) 53.6%


DHES =231 (38-313) =45.5% tested 2/14/18

Currently on 50mcg Synthroid (T4)
TSH = 0.632
Free T4 = 1.07  ( 0.78-2.19) =20.6 % of range
Free T3 = 4.25 (2.77-5.27) = 59.2 % of range

Past protocol: began 4/13/18) 100mg DIM once per day. 9weeks. raised total T, freeT remained unchanged due to increases SHBG. Estradiol significant decrease from 41 to 30.

Current protocol: 6/30/18 increased DIM to 200mg. Split half in AM, other half early PM

Tebori

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Re: Newbie here
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2018, 03:45:13 pm »
Chronic fatigue. So much itís ruined relationships.  Decreased libido but itís not gone.  Metabolic syndrome and insulin resistance. Brain fog. Memory issues and sleep poorly.  The testosterone results were in my first post. As far as the ranges go. Here is s photo of that page.  It wonít let me share the photo. Iíll post the ranges but yes thyroid is normal.  I went to the hormone people because it was the urologist that didnít do much testing and was jumping right to cypionate or wanted me to anyway. So far I havenít taken any testosterone. 

oldolylifter

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Re: Newbie here
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2018, 06:24:46 pm »
Was free testosterone tested?

Flyingfool

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Re: Newbie here
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2018, 07:14:40 pm »
Others may chime in. But at 41 years old. Total Testosterone of 280 to 430 is pretty dismal.

Did they test SHBG. With total T ans SHBG you can calculate free T.

Free t is the active form. So even if you have plenty of total T, if the majority of it is bound up by SHBG, you may have low active free Testosterone available leaving you symptomatic.  Men typically report having symptoms when free Testosterone is about 10.

T levels decline with age, so things are only likely to get worse. And you have already said that your symptoms have harmed relationships and have affected your life negatively. So Iím not quite sure what your hesitation is about starting testosterone?
51 year old, 5í-7Ē and 165 lbs.
exercise:swim 3x/wk & marrial arts 2x/wk

Blood tested 6/26/18

Total = 438 ng/dL (220-813) 55.7%
Free T= 7.47 (5.6-21) 12.1%

SHBG= 44.6 (10.0-57.0) 73.6%

Bio-avail= 175 (131-682) 8.0%

DHES =not tested %

Estradiol = 30 (0-56) 53.6%


DHES =231 (38-313) =45.5% tested 2/14/18

Currently on 50mcg Synthroid (T4)
TSH = 0.632
Free T4 = 1.07  ( 0.78-2.19) =20.6 % of range
Free T3 = 4.25 (2.77-5.27) = 59.2 % of range

Past protocol: began 4/13/18) 100mg DIM once per day. 9weeks. raised total T, freeT remained unchanged due to increases SHBG. Estradiol significant decrease from 41 to 30.

Current protocol: 6/30/18 increased DIM to 200mg. Split half in AM, other half early PM

Tebori

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Re: Newbie here
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2018, 08:26:30 pm »
My free testosterone was 7.4.  And to answer your question. The reason I havenít started treatment is I wanted to make sure thatís what I actually needed. I donít know whatís causing my symptoms. Of course it makes sense that the test would be. Also donít know much about any of this. Iím still Learnjng. So I didnít want to just blindly start treatment I guess.   

Tebori

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Re: Newbie here
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2018, 09:04:58 am »
Also belly fat that no matter how much I exercise I canít lose.  I eat really clean, no sugar. So Iíve listed my main symptoms but there are more. Iíve read a lot including in this peak performance testosterone book to make sure you are truly low test before starting.  Seems to me itís nit really easy to tell since tests can vary, time of day and opinions of what low is.  Iíve also read about people having heart palpitations from test and hcg treatment which I donít want to experience.  I donít know how common that is ( skipped heart beats) during treatment but Iíve found several online that had that happen. But who knows. Maybe overdoing it etc.  like I said Iím learning and want to be informed and know that I do indeed need TRT before jumping in. 

Tebori

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Re: Newbie here
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2018, 06:44:30 pm »
Also anxiety and ectopic beats, pvcs are more of my symptoms.  High corritisol maybe.

Flyingfool

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Re: Newbie here
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2018, 07:53:31 pm »
Usually, getting hormone levels to proper levels make one more healthy, not less. All cause mortality is lower for people on HRT.  Which would be a reason for going on HRT.

I agree with you that confirming it is low and the right thing to do makes sense.

There may be some things to try first.

I for example am taking DIM and it has seemed to lower my estrogen levels and made me feel a bit better. Upped the dose recently and have not has any blood test. But canít  say I feel better than at the lower dose.

Trying Clomid is another possibility.
51 year old, 5í-7Ē and 165 lbs.
exercise:swim 3x/wk & marrial arts 2x/wk

Blood tested 6/26/18

Total = 438 ng/dL (220-813) 55.7%
Free T= 7.47 (5.6-21) 12.1%

SHBG= 44.6 (10.0-57.0) 73.6%

Bio-avail= 175 (131-682) 8.0%

DHES =not tested %

Estradiol = 30 (0-56) 53.6%


DHES =231 (38-313) =45.5% tested 2/14/18

Currently on 50mcg Synthroid (T4)
TSH = 0.632
Free T4 = 1.07  ( 0.78-2.19) =20.6 % of range
Free T3 = 4.25 (2.77-5.27) = 59.2 % of range

Past protocol: began 4/13/18) 100mg DIM once per day. 9weeks. raised total T, freeT remained unchanged due to increases SHBG. Estradiol significant decrease from 41 to 30.

Current protocol: 6/30/18 increased DIM to 200mg. Split half in AM, other half early PM

Tebori

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Re: Newbie here
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2018, 03:41:55 pm »
Ok. So reading Lees book he says to make sure you are truly low T before TRT but it seems quite hard to determine that since many things can cause low T. How long do you spend trying to correct it naturally or letís say it is from stress and poor sleep. At what point does this become a secondary issue and cannot be fixed naturally.  For example letís say stress caused my poor sleep and I have those two issues making my T plummet. But now Iím low T and have other symptoms from that and cannot for the life of me get a good nights sleep. I wasnít always this way. So my thoughts are, can I correct this naturally or do I need TRT to correct it. And seems almost impossible to figure out the cause in most cases.  I did have low D , thyroid was fine. Dhea was low. Anyway. All of this information is overwhelming and Iím not sure I feel anymore informed than before as to what approach I should take. Iím not sure how long my T levels have been low. They did do a saliva test two years ago And the doctor said my levels were fine.  Iím also not sure how accurate a saliva test is for that. They did a hormone panel via saliva so I collected at different times of the day.

Cataceous

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Re: Newbie here
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2018, 05:41:36 pm »
Ok. So reading Lees book he says to make sure you are truly low T before TRT but it seems quite hard to determine that since many things can cause low T. How long do you spend trying to correct it naturally or letís say it is from stress and poor sleep. At what point does this become a secondary issue and cannot be fixed naturally.  For example letís say stress caused my poor sleep and I have those two issues making my T plummet. But now Iím low T and have other symptoms from that and cannot for the life of me get a good nights sleep. I wasnít always this way. So my thoughts are, can I correct this naturally or do I need TRT to correct it. And seems almost impossible to figure out the cause in most cases. ...

In part it depends on your patience. Younger guys should work harder at it, especially if considering TRT. But if you've got a pretty clean lifestyle already and have ruled out major things, like prolactinomas, then I wouldn't expect a couple smaller issues like poor sleep and stress to be making the difference between hypogonadism and good health. At some point you've got to say you've done your due diligence and it's time to attack the symptom of low T and feel better.
I am not a medical doctor; any suggestions are meant to be discussed with your doctor.
Age: 57, Ht: 5'10", Wt: 158 lbs
Protocol: 18 mg T enanthate subQ qod, 250 IU hCG subQ qod, 50 mcg anastrozole qod, 6.25 mg DHEA orally bid, 4 mg preg. orally qd
7/2018 test results: TT: 800 ng/dL, E2: 50 pg/mL immunoassay, DHEA-S: 264 ug/dL (49-344)óSHBG ~30 nmol/L

Tebori

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Re: Newbie here
« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2018, 10:19:14 am »
Ok. So I am home now and can look at my results.
 Estradiol 17.7  range  25.8-60.7
Iron 56       59-158.  Which is odd since I eat red meat often
Ferritin 304    30-400
T4 8.4.     4.5-11.7
T3 2.9.    2.0-4.4
Prolactin 11.29.  4.04-15.20
SHBG 39.   10-80
Dhea 181. 89-427
TSH 1.44.  .27-4.20
RBC 5.1.  4.1-5.6
WBC 6.6. 4.0-10.5
Vitamin D 32. 30-100
Testosterone 431.  ( a few days before this test it was 281)
Free T 7.99 (ng/dL)
I should also state I have Lyme disease and Iíve heard from a female doctor that has it and she states that it messes with hormones. I couldnít find anything Iím his book about Lyme. But anyway. Hope the numbers help. Iím not even sure what someone of them mean since Iím new.  Let me know if Iíve left something out as they checked a lot of different things. Thanks.

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Re: Newbie here
« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2018, 10:19:14 am »