Peak Testosterone Forum

General Category => Testosterone, Hormones and General Men's Health => Topic started by: PakMan on November 22, 2016, 02:25:51 am

Title: Why don't AI's work with HCG
Post by: PakMan on November 22, 2016, 02:25:51 am
I've often heard that AIs do not work to control estradiol from HCG because that is created in the testicles which leads to the questions

1. What percent of estrogen (to total estrogen) is created in the testicles in normal healthy males without HCG?

2. 1. What percent of estrogen (to total estrogen) is created in the testicles in men with about 1000iu HCG?

Because if a large percent of E is still being created outside the testicles why won't AI's have an effect?
Title: Re: Why don't AI's work with HCG
Post by: Osprey on November 22, 2016, 02:43:08 am
Nobody knows, hasn't been studied and I'm sure there is wide variation. For example in my case HCG doesn't raise E2 much no matter what the dose, and to your last point, small doses of anastrozole have a normal effect to lower my E2 several points.
Title: Re: Why don't AI's work with HCG
Post by: PeakT on November 22, 2016, 02:51:26 am
I've often heard that AIs do not work to control estradiol from HCG because that is created in the testicles which leads to the questions

1. What percent of estrogen (to total estrogen) is created in the testicles in normal healthy males without HCG?

2. 1. What percent of estrogen (to total estrogen) is created in the testicles in men with about 1000iu HCG?

Because if a large percent of E is still being created outside the testicles why won't AI's have an effect?

I don't totally know the mechanism, but the concept is I believe that aromatase lives in fat tissue and this is what AI's such as Arimidex would work on.  That said, I  just found this:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8476768

Hopefully, someone else knows the details here.
Title: Re: Why don't AI's work with HCG
Post by: PeakT on November 22, 2016, 02:53:14 am
Nobody knows, hasn't been studied and I'm sure there is wide variation. For example in my case HCG doesn't raise E2 much no matter what the dose, and to your last point, small doses of anastrozole have a normal effect to lower my E2 several points.

But you're not on HCG Mono, right?  I assume the OP is talking about that situation, since TRT + HCG isn't usually going to have that kind of an estradiol issue assuming you have the right testosterone dosing to start with before you add on the HCG.
Title: Re: Why don't AI's work with HCG
Post by: Cataceous on November 22, 2016, 04:07:22 am
I don't have time to dig it up at the moment, but I posted a reference on this a few months back. The article was estimating the relative magnitudes of the difference sources of estradiol.
Title: Re: Why don't AI's work with HCG
Post by: PeakT on November 23, 2016, 01:02:36 am
I don't have time to dig it up at the moment, but I posted a reference on this a few months back. The article was estimating the relative magnitudes of the difference sources of estradiol.

You talking about this Cataceous.   If not, you (and Hydranted) had some great info here:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=8937.0
Title: Re: Why don't AI's work with HCG
Post by: Cataceous on November 23, 2016, 03:11:22 pm
That's not the one I was thinking of and I still can't find it. I might have referred to this abstract (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/511978) in the process.

Quote
The purpose of this study was to quantify the various sources of estrone (E1) and 17 beta-estradiol (E2) production in normal men and in women with testicular feminization. ...
Title: Re: Why don't AI's work with HCG
Post by: PeakT on November 23, 2016, 05:28:44 pm
That's not the one I was thinking of and I still can't find it. I might have referred to this abstract (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/511978) in the process.

Quote
The purpose of this study was to quantify the various sources of estrone (E1) and 17 beta-estradiol (E2) production in normal men and in women with testicular feminization. ...

If you can remember any key word that you said I can probably dig that up.  I have a few tricks of the trade.
Title: Re: Why don't AI's work with HCG
Post by: Cataceous on November 23, 2016, 05:43:27 pm
If you can remember any key word that you said I can probably dig that up.  I have a few tricks of the trade.

I think I tried that and still struck out. For sure "estradiol", "Leydig" or "intratesticular". Maybe "fat" or some synonym, for where other production takes place.