Peak Testosterone Forum

General Category => Testosterone, Hormones and General Men's Health => Topic started by: apericubes on March 23, 2013, 09:16:58 pm

Title: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: apericubes on March 23, 2013, 09:16:58 pm
Hi there, 28 year old male here from toronto canada, always been physically fit and active, extremely high libido/great shape/health/ both mentally and physically. Been lifting weights/cardio/sexually active since 21.

In september, 6 months ago, I had a minor back pain and doctor gave me some oxycodone 20mg timed release pills. I took about 10 of them over a two week period. At the end of the two weeks, it was physically impossible to get an erection and I had NO LIBIDO. I didnt know what caused this and it got me very frustrated. I gave it a few days and went to talk to my doctor. His response was "stop thinking about sex so much, go work and stay busy I dont know what to say to you"

I gave it a few weeks and finally I could acheive like a half erection just enough to perform with the gf. I gave it a few more weeks and everything stay the same..while i was working I noticed i started to gain weight (even thought i ate the same) , felt depressed, extremely anxious and had hot flashes and very moody. My erections came back to half strength but orgasm felt like 10 percent of what it used to be without the wow factor like before. My refractory period was in the hours instead of minutes like before the pain pills. I had no sense of satisfaction after orgasms also.

I went back to the doc and he said to stop stressing over this, and i askd him to investigate, he refused. My erections got even worse and I could no longer even get them, even on my own for "self satisfaction" something thats worked like a charm since age 14. I started having a few drinks at night due to the depressive feelings and hopelessness and anxiety. I went back to the the doc and he said i may be depressed even though ive always been a very happy person with no history of any depresssion. he tried to prescribe cipralex which is an ssri which one of the main side effects is sexual dysfunction. i said listen doc im not depressed and why would u prescribe something that has the side efffect i am trying to battle! he didnt care and moved along. i didnt use the antidepressants.

a few months later i said my symptoms barely improved and to do a blood test. he refused. i went to a walk in under the guidance of a paramedic friend and my free testosterone levels came back at  23 pmol/L on a range of 31 to 94. remember age 28 at the time. very low.

i showed him the tests and he said its low but one tests means nothing, and that i did it at 12 pm means its not correct

he finally agreed to do more tests

i did bio avail, fsh  / lh and prolactin and free test

tests came back as follows

LH               RESULT 8      scale of 2-9  IU/L
FSH              RESULT 12    scale of 2-12    IU/L
Prolactin      RESULT  12   scale <= 17.99  ug/L
FREE TEST   RESULT  30.9  scale 31-94   pmol/L

BIOAVAIL TEST  7.2  scale of 2.7/19.2  nmol/L


He called me in and said my test is definetly low but still in range and he didnt want to help anymore, My gf and i said i have a terrible libido, it takes me a long time to get erect even if i can, and i havent had morning erections in 6 months and i can't even get it up on my own for the life of me. also eating less but weight went from 180 to 220 in 6 months. its caused depression sadness anxiety and all that. i dont know what to do, how could a few weeks of long term pain killers cause supposed hypogonadism /test deficiency? the doc said to stop caring, it seem slike he is the only one who doesnt care . ive lost 6 months of my life please help. before this i could have sex/please myself several times a day, full of energy and happiness and morning erections for like 10 minutes that i couldnt not control. low test has really ruined my life and doctors wont help


mike
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: PeakT on March 23, 2013, 09:54:41 pm
Sorry to hear about the troubles.

I doubt you have noticed this but they just came up with a study that verifies that pain killers appear to be able to cause low testosterone:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/01/130131154412.htm

This is no big shock really.  So imo the bottom line is that you need to get a second opinion.  You probably have low testosterone based upon your self-test and need to get a doctor who will take the issue seriously.  It can be painful to find a good doc. 

Look at this couples woes:

https://www.peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=1148.0
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: apericubes on March 23, 2013, 09:57:00 pm
I know for a fact the pain pills did it, its too coincidental. what are my options when i find a doc who will help? why won't my doc help me out? im seeing the gfs doctor monday hopefully she can help (this ones female)

its really taken over my life, i feel lifeless, what are the options and outcome (prognosis)?

THANK YOU
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: PeakT on March 23, 2013, 10:15:30 pm
I know for a fact the pain pills did it, its too coincidental. what are my options when i find a doc who will help? why won't my doc help me out? im seeing the gfs doctor monday hopefully she can help (this ones female)

its really taken over my life, i feel lifeless, what are the options and outcome (prognosis)?

THANK YOU

If you truly have low testosterone, then you have three options:

1.  Try to cure with lifestyle changes.  From what I have seen, this does not work unless you are very overweight.
2.  Go on HRT.  This can affect fertility.
3.  Try Clomid, HCG, Arimidex or some combination in order to preserve fertility.

The safety of #2 and #3 of the above you have to discuss with your doc. 
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: apericubes on March 23, 2013, 10:31:58 pm
thanks for your help, my doctor doesnt care at all, he squints his eyes at me in disgust when i say i have libido and e.d...he says stop thinking about sex and move on , this is a big deal for me at age 28  , sorry but sex is the spice of life . im seeing my girlfriends doctor on monday morning hopefully she will have a diferent view. lifestyle changes dont seem to work with test this low, i can barely get erections anymore, before i could get erect 8 times in a day to the point where i would take it for granted. how well does hrt work? how well do clomidds work? willl i ever be the same as i was before?


thanks so much, sorrry for all the questions. the degree of seriousness if through the roof for me
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: JackAndy on March 23, 2013, 11:31:57 pm
willl i ever be the same as i was before?


thanks so much, sorrry for all the questions. the degree of seriousness if through the roof for me

Yes you will be able to get it back. Most of us here on this board have had problems like this, that's why we're here, and there are many solutions. You just need to take a step back, look at it objectively and do the things you can do like improving your diet and taking off those extra 40 lbs you gained because they aren't helping. The drinking isn't going to help either, but I understand that as a coping mechanism. If you really do have depression, that needs to be addressed. Don't look at it as a necessarily a psychological thing, but your brain chemicals like serotonin could've gotten messed up by the pain killers too. So go through a do a real self-evaluation.
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: apericubes on March 24, 2013, 12:07:34 am
i hear that,. for sure drinking was a coping mechanism because i felt a feeling of impending doom. "why was i so stupid to take pain pills etc" " i should have known better" "im only 28 why did this happen"

iv'e never had any symptoms of depression my entire life, i was the life of the party and the group class clown. this stuff really de personalized me bigtime. my libido has come back like 10 percent but still not the same. i just wanna know if there is light at the end of this tunnel.
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: PeakT on March 24, 2013, 02:36:19 am
Sure, but you've got to back off the medications and alcohol before you actually damage yourself.  I don't know how much you are drinking, but just do a little reading on what it does to your hormones, liver, brain, etc.  The clock is ticking if you are drinking immoderately. 

The good news:  you are young.  You have a lot of built in buffer.  Just stop now, drop that extra weight and it is very, very likely you'll be a comnpletely new person. 

But JackAndy brought up a good point:  you need to get off of all that stuff before your testosterone reading is really going to reflect where you're really at.  Find a doc that knows what he is doing and will work with you.
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: apericubes on March 24, 2013, 02:42:19 am
i dont take anything anymore, just some alcohol.
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: PeakT on March 24, 2013, 03:12:10 am
i dont take anything anymore, just some alcohol.

Okay, sorry to make assumptions.  But I will probably make one more, because I noticed that you're not saying "I just have a glass of wine with my dinner and that's it."  So I'm not trying to judge without knowing, but I would guess you need to read these:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Testosterone_Beer

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Alcohol_Testosterone

There is no health advantage that you can get from drinking alcohol that you cannot get from diet and exercise.  Stick to the latter two imo because they are much safer and MUCH less addictive for some men.  It really offers nothing to you.

And alcohol and depression do not go together - just not a good combo.  Some of these may help?

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Depression_Cures

And, yes, low testosterone can definitely contribute to depression and vice versa:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Testosterone_Depression

I think that you feel that the pain killers basically took out your testosterone and that that is the root cause.  Keep pursuing that then but if you're drinking more than a glass or maybe two per day, that could be causing you some problems as well.  The extra weight will not help.

So, again, find a doc who will work with you and get your testosterone monitored and find out.  And don't panic:  you can almost for sure get your health and sex life back if you find a good doctor and make some simple lifestyle modifications.
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: apericubes on March 24, 2013, 08:35:08 am
thanks for the links, yeah i do drink moderately but my t levels were even lower in oct and nov before i started to drink, i just did it to cope, they have gone up a few points but im sure it doesnt help. at first after the pills it seemed like i had no t in me.
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: JackAndy on March 24, 2013, 02:04:28 pm
iv'e never had any symptoms of depression my entire life, i was the life of the party and the group class clown. this stuff really de personalized me bigtime. my libido has come back like 10 percent but still not the same. i just wanna know if there is light at the end of this tunnel.

Yeah it just sounds like you're really depressed and you have to find a way to get out of it. I'd say there is light at the end of the tunnel but you're showing signs of depression and it's getting so bad that it's causing you to do things which make it worse and that's a downward spiral. You make still think it started with the pills, but something happened before September, before the pills that put you in a position where you were vulnerable. It's not uncommon for men to suffer sexual difficulties even for prolonged periods, many men even just live with it without seeking help. Your reaction is understandable, but it sounds like your feelings of depression, hopelessness and anxiety are hitting you harder than they would for most men. I can only go by what you say, but I also thought that gaining 40 lbs in 6 months is pretty extreme so that must reflect a big change for you in your lifestyle. So you can probably take care of the physical things pretty easily but I don't know what else is there that is causing you to not be nice to yourself.
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: PeakT on March 24, 2013, 02:52:22 pm
thanks for the links, yeah i do drink moderately but my t levels were even lower in oct and nov before i started to drink, i just did it to cope, they have gone up a few points but im sure it doesnt help. at first after the pills it seemed like i had no t in me.

Gotcha.  Well, if you are in the U.S., you should be able to find a good physician who will test you.  It takes some effort though.

Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: TheWife on March 24, 2013, 03:22:57 pm
Peak T does taking the pain pills for a few weeks knock out your T forever? I had assumed that it would come back up on its own after stopping the pain meds if it was very short term use? Don't really know why I thought that but now I am curious.
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: apericubes on March 24, 2013, 05:17:56 pm
its been 6 months and my t levels are still really low, but how i felt in oct nov and dec it seemed like i had no t in me at all, now i have some (see top post)

as i said before i previous was a very busy person tons of friends worked out every day worked hard very social got up early and great personality, this stuff really changed me and i am super upset about it. its not so easy to "just snap out of it"
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: PeakT on March 24, 2013, 06:04:50 pm
Peak T does taking the pain pills for a few weeks knock out your T forever? I had assumed that it would come back up on its own after stopping the pain meds if it was very short term use? Don't really know why I thought that but now I am curious.

Well, as you can tell, I'm kind of avoiding this one.  And the reason is that men usually panic if they think they have done permanent damage below the belt.  I cannot not tell you the number of men that I get emails and forum posts from where they are extremely anxious over this subject.  This panic is what fuels the testosterone supplement, "overmasturbation" and porn recovery forums.  I don't want to say anything sexist, but I believe it would be the rough equivalent of the panic many women feel if they find out that they cannot have kids.  It can cause extreme anxiety, depression and grief.

So, from what I have read, you can permanently damage fertility and Leydig cell function with some of the hard core drugs.  However, I don't believe this is the norm and usually men can recover nicely.  I discussed that here:

https://www.peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=317.0

However, these painkillers definitely affect testosterone from the more mild painkillers to the hardcore, which I outline here:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Cocaine_Heroin_Erectile_Dysfunction

By the way, Sertoli function (fertility) is much more vulnerable from what I have read than Leydig cell function to these drugs.  But I encourage men to talk to their pharmacist and/or physician and have them do some good research.  Let us know if you find out more... 
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: apericubes on March 24, 2013, 06:08:28 pm
i can get it up with the gf after a lot of her stimulating me, nothing like before, i used to walk in her front door ready to go if u know what i mean, as for masturbation and porn it has no effect on me, i stay soft.
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: TheWife on March 24, 2013, 06:54:36 pm
Thank you again PeakT for your comments and the informative links. I sure wish I had been able to access all of this information 20 years ago.

Apericubes Keep your head up (no pun intended) and work hard at finding a good doctor. Depending on where you are there are some doctors listed on the peaktestosterone website and there is an excellent post here

https://www.peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=246.0

on how to find a good doctor.

I believe Urologists are a little more on top of things than Endocrinologists but that's just my opinion. If you are in the states, (which I'm wondering if you are because of the way your test results were posted) you can PM me for another link that might help you find a specialist in your area.

Keep asking questions and learning about low T and don't just give up if your doctor won't acknowledge the problem. They are plenty of other fish in the sea, as it were.

Good luck to you my friend.
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: apericubes on March 24, 2013, 07:00:19 pm
i am in toronto canada
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: TheWife on March 24, 2013, 10:47:56 pm
Seems like a lot of guys don't have good luck with gels but some do. Do a search for androgel, testim and axiron here in the forum.

Testopel seems like it works and injections work well if you can get your doctor to prescribe them often enough (Needs to be once a week to keep the levels more level) and it is a hassle to go in to the office for injections so they are better for people who's doctors will let them take the shots at home.

We are currently in the process of finding a doctor who will give us a choice and deciding which method would work best for us.

It is not a magic pill but usually works to help alleviate the symptoms of low t when you get the levels to a more healthy place.
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: apericubes on March 25, 2013, 03:19:21 am
its hard to find help here in canada. i told my family doc the issue he said he doesnt care. i went to a mental health centre (camh) they just said its something else and wanted me on antidepressants. i went to the hospital the social worker said maybe i dont love my gf, i had to research myself and get the testosterone tests to figure it out MYSELF. .....
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: PeakT on March 25, 2013, 03:32:08 am
its hard to find help here in canada. i told my family doc the issue he said he doesnt care. i went to a mental health centre (camh) they just said its something else and wanted me on antidepressants. i went to the hospital the social worker said maybe i dont love my gf, i had to research myself and get the testosterone tests to figure it out MYSELF. .....

What about urologists?  HRT clinics? 
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: apericubes on March 25, 2013, 03:36:18 am
i dont know how to find them, dont they need a referral? i called one near me and they have a year waiting list with a referall, i know im freaking out but the smpytoms of low t at age 28 (ed, no libido, depression, weight gain, crying) are not good. the government even took my drivers license away because i showed up to the hospital in distress and said i was having drinks at night because the doctor woudlnt help me. terrible sequence of evensts.
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: PeakT on March 25, 2013, 05:10:49 am
i dont know how to find them, dont they need a referral? i called one near me and they have a year waiting list with a referall, i know im freaking out but the smpytoms of low t at age 28 (ed, no libido, depression, weight gain, crying) are not good. the government even took my drivers license away because i showed up to the hospital in distress and said i was having drinks at night because the doctor woudlnt help me. terrible sequence of evensts.
Sorry to hear about all the troubles.  I'm not sure how it works in Canada though.  Here in the U.S. it's very dependent on your insurance plan.

Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: apericubes on March 26, 2013, 04:19:33 am
hey everyone, went to another family doctor today that my gf uses. she is female, immediately she listened to my story and faxed my documentation and gave me a referall to a urologist here in toronto who should be calling me within the week hope it turns out well. wait time may be a month or two though.
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: JackAndy on March 26, 2013, 05:18:39 am
hey everyone, went to another family doctor today that my gf uses. she is female, immediately she listened to my story and faxed my documentation and gave me a referall to a urologist here in toronto who should be calling me within the week hope it turns out well. wait time may be a month or two though.

Good. Glad to hear it.
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: PeakT on March 26, 2013, 07:13:12 am
hey everyone, went to another family doctor today that my gf uses. she is female, immediately she listened to my story and faxed my documentation and gave me a referall to a urologist here in toronto who should be calling me within the week hope it turns out well. wait time may be a month or two though.

Good news!  Let us know the outcome if you think of it.
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: apericubes on March 26, 2013, 09:21:31 pm
might take a month or two, what do u suggest for someone my age? (28) planning to have kids? im really worried about my well being and libido, it was fire before, i had more confidence than anyone, now i just confide to myself and dwell
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: PeakT on March 26, 2013, 10:04:00 pm
might take a month or two, what do u suggest for someone my age? (28) planning to have kids? im really worried about my well being and libido, it was fire before, i had more confidence than anyone, now i just confide to myself and dwell

If you want to have kids, see a fertility doc and discuss Clomid/HCG/Arimidex.  This is a big deal with women and you want to it right.  Plus, a fertility doc should have a good feel for the ways to manage the side effects on Clomid (and HCG, i.e. estradiol).
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: apericubes on March 28, 2013, 03:46:15 am
will the endo doc be ok with me givin him tips? how well does clomid hcg etc work
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: PeakT on March 28, 2013, 04:59:04 am
will the endo doc be ok with me givin him tips? how well does clomid hcg etc work

Probably not an endo.  But I have heard of other types of docs listening.  A few guys have gotten their physicians to call other colleagues, read more, admit that he didn't know as much as should, etc.

Clomid and HCG will probably work for a young guy like you, but there is no guarantee.  For example, you could be primary.
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: apericubes on March 28, 2013, 07:21:50 pm
well it comes from the opioid use
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: apericubes on March 28, 2013, 08:31:53 pm
honestly, some men may not value sexual wellness as much as others, i have met horoin users at the hospital who simply dont care for sex so it doesnt bug them. i was sexually active several times a day /hypersexual before i used painkilllers, so it really hit me hard, i've been depressed, no energy, nightmares, lost many friends and respect and my health due to this, i really hope that trt or anything will turn this around i dont know what ill do if there is no cure.
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: PeakT on March 28, 2013, 09:02:20 pm
honestly, some men may not value sexual wellness as much as others, i have met horoin users at the hospital who simply dont care for sex so it doesnt bug them. i was sexually active several times a day /hypersexual before i used painkilllers, so it really hit me hard, i've been depressed, no energy, nightmares, lost many friends and respect and my health due to this, i really hope that trt or anything will turn this around i dont know what ill do if there is no cure.

Of course, sorry to hear it.  It could have happened to almost any of us at one stage or another of our lives.

The main thing is stay calm even though your situation is very tough.  You've got to believe you can turn this around, which is almost for sure true.  And you'ave also got to realize that you're not going to solve this overnight, so start accumulating good docs, understanding friends and build up your knowledge of differing testosterone therapies, natural lifestyles, etc.  Almost always these kind of crisis situations end up being a good thing and we men turn our lives around healthier and better than ever.

Again, though, it can take several months or a year or two sometimes until the momentum switches around.  It takes a lot of work and sometimes trial and error.

I can tell one thing about you that is very good:  you want to get better.  Trust me - that's huge as so many men just give up...
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: apericubes on March 29, 2013, 05:22:18 pm
some men give up? i noticed a SLIGHT difference over the last 6 months, still libido and ed difficulties but they came back like 20 percent so far, but still very low, i hope my body can heal or re learn what it knew...as for the endo or uro who is supposed to call me, i wonder if he will do any remedial steps or give me the whole "just live a clean life and see what happens"
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: PeakT on March 29, 2013, 05:59:02 pm
some men give up? i noticed a SLIGHT difference over the last 6 months, still libido and ed difficulties but they came back like 20 percent so far, but still very low, i hope my body can heal or re learn what it knew...as for the endo or uro who is supposed to call me, i wonder if he will do any remedial steps or give me the whole "just live a clean life and see what happens"

By give up, I mean they just give up on their health and let themselves slide into some sort of major medical condition.  You seem like a fighter and that's very good.
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: apericubes on March 29, 2013, 06:04:48 pm
i wont lie, i started to drink at night bc i assume the low test caused depressive thoughts and anxiety etc, i am better now i can actually sit still, before i was like a chicken with my head cut off, i dont eat as much but i now weigh 220 lbs from 180 (ripped)
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: PeakT on March 29, 2013, 06:59:42 pm
i wont lie, i started to drink at night bc i assume the low test caused depressive thoughts and anxiety etc, i am better now i can actually sit still, before i was like a chicken with my head cut off, i dont eat as much but i now weigh 220 lbs from 180 (ripped)

I'll tell you what you already know:  the drinking will just make it worse. 

I don't want to sound like a polyanna, but I used to do stuff like climb one of the local mountains, head to the gym, walk through a mall - just anything where there was a lot of stimulation.  The exercise boosts dopamine and you'll get a nice mood-boosting rush at the end of it.  It's just as good as almost anything else, except sexual intercourse of course, but just takes more time.  Time well spent anyway, though, if you ask me. 

Music is another way to pump up their neurotransmitters in a healthy way.  And you probably already know I think medication and PMR are excellent:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Hdr_Cortisol (See bottom links.)

You gotta find some way to cope while you're waiting for your docs without destroying your health...
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: apericubes on March 29, 2013, 10:46:18 pm
good point, wats pmr
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: PeakT on March 30, 2013, 01:52:59 am
good point, wats pmr

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Progressive_Muscle_Relaxation
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: apericubes on March 30, 2013, 05:48:26 am
i love how some docs here in canada i've talked to will say "im by no means a pill pusher but you could use some viagra". lol, yeah at 28 when i am telling you i have low t, makes a lot of sense, as i said even if i had viagra in me and was hard as a rock the desire isn't quite there.

by the way the doc i was referred to who should be calling me is an endo not a uro...hes american too (practices in texas) and in toronto

[edited by moderator]

just letttin you know! i know hes not a magician but i sure hope he can help.
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: apericubes on March 30, 2013, 08:03:34 pm
everyone i've talked to (friends family etc) said talk to a naturopath, do it yourself, exercise, eat better...thouthts?
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: davie12 on March 30, 2013, 09:52:27 pm
Apericubes...just so you know, there is some similarity of my situation to yours. I tooks some antibiotics for rosacea and have had some kind of endocrine disruption and my T has plummeted. I'm in my 40s but still had the libido/sexual performance from my 20s/30s. I'm seeing a reproductive urologist as I want to stay fertile. I've spent countless hours researching toxicity of drugs on Leydig/Sertoli cells (in the testes). (Leydig=Testosterone producing cells; Sertoli=spermatogenesis/sperm producing cells).  From what I've read, even people who go through the harshest drugs (ie. for chemo/testicular cancer) regain functionality after a while. (Consider Lance Armstrong who had testicular cancer that spread and then had a testicle removed combined with chemo drugs/radiation. He conceived children naturally with his 2nd wife even though he was told he couldn't and was a ladies man prior to that even after the cancer.) My point is that this is quite a devastating condition he had that altered his body substantially and look how he came out of it. I suppose when you have full bloodwork you can see more of a picture. Also, get a semen analysis done (which I did). I'm on Clomid right now and am incorporating a strict weightlifting/exercise/diet routine to maximize the benefit. (I may switch to HCG for better subjective/symptomatic benefit.) Basically, I am trying to do everything possible to maximize my own T production and see how far I can take it and see what next steps are. As PeakT said, don't fall prey to drinking and weight gain...that will only make it worse.
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: PeakT on March 30, 2013, 11:13:12 pm
Great post Davie. 

And, apericubes, notice something in Davie's post:  he responds to HCG and Clomid.  You can request an HCG and/or Clomid stimulation test.  If your testosterone increases, then this is a sign that the testes are actually okay.  Type stimulation - oo la la! - in the forum search above and you should get some results where other posters have undergone these tests.

But I'm mentioning it, because this is a way to actually test to see if the testes are damaged or not.  Your LH/FSH readings can add to the picture.
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: apericubes on March 31, 2013, 12:05:45 am
my fsh and lh levels came back pretty normal (see previous post)...im scared to ask my fam doc any questions because he just squints at me in disgust,my gfs new fam doc said its beyond her scope of practice to do this, and i dont know what this endocrinologist will say once i see him soon
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: PeakT on March 31, 2013, 03:51:51 am
my fsh and lh levels came back pretty normal (see previous post)...im scared to ask my fam doc any questions because he just squints at me in disgust,my gfs new fam doc said its beyond her scope of practice to do this, and i dont know what this endocrinologist will say once i see him soon

That's just a cover up for not knowing I would guess. 

Yeah, it's hard to tell much of anything.  From what I have read, it's possible for a man to be primary and then have his LH "settle" a little into the high normal range.  But that's not something that has happened on this forum - I've just read anecdotal stories.  Again, the stimulation tests should be able to answer that more definitively for you.

By the way, 12 can be the upper range for prolactin here, although sometimes it is 15.  What I'm getting at is that your prolactin is a little high, so I'd ask the endo about that.  Certain medications can raise prolactin as can excess dopamine.  Notice that these opiates raised prolactin for example:

http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/47/1/200.short
"Opiates, Prolactin, and the Dopamine Receptor"

Forewarning:  Endos are the least likely to treat low testosterone from what I have seen.  Well, at least that is true here in the U.S.  Ironically, urologists were a much bigger percentage of the first wave of HRT physicians in spite of the fact that they deal first hand with prostate cancer patients.
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: apericubes on March 31, 2013, 03:58:51 am
well the gp said hes a uro, but i looked him up and it said hes an endo


name is dr sorin g beca

practices in the states too let me know what u think


thx a bunch
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: Blade78 on March 31, 2013, 04:11:18 am
my fsh and lh levels came back pretty normal (see previous post)...im scared to ask my fam doc any questions because he just squints at me in disgust,my gfs new fam doc said its beyond her scope of practice to do this, and i dont know what this endocrinologist will say once i see him soon
that's a sign to find someone new and being a pansy is a sign of low T

Remember, friend, you are paying the physician.  He isn't the boss.  Yes, he may know more than you about stuff, so what?
Would you take crap from a waitress?  I'm sure she knows more about how your food than you do.  Would you be afraid to ask your waitress anything to make your meal more pleasant?
Get your questions out or find a new physician.

(I am well aware of the white coat syndrome/stress you get when you see a dude in a white coat, suddenly everything he says HAS TO BE THE TRUTH....makes sense till you realize you'd never take advice about your boners from that white coated butcher in the deli  ???)


I'm assuming you are in USA
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: apericubes on March 31, 2013, 04:32:22 am
im in canada, its all free here, fucking social medicine. sorry to curse,.
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: spiderman on March 31, 2013, 11:01:52 am
Apericubes...Just reading your posts is giving me flashbacks to how I was feeling a couple of years ago.My situation didn't involve pillls but a minor op which resulted in exactly the same situation.
Identical symptoms followed of low libido, ED problems,depression, aniexty etc etc. I could not have got any lower...check my posts.

I was exactly the same as you. super sexual, party goer, social and all of a sudden you are taken off your feet and thrown down a very dark pit.

Now here is the good news...your body heals like nothing else!..I am mid 40's and am now well back in the game. It took discovering this site, helping my body heal with correct vits/diet etc and experimenting with supplements to see what my body liked and didn't like.
It has taken me a couple of years and it is terribly difficult to feel good about anything but you have to hang on to any good times and feelings as depression and anxiety screw up your neurotransmitters and the chemicals in your body like nothing else.

Doctors again!!!...Grrrrrrr...If you knew how many dudes on here have posted about ignorant treatment at the hands of their docs!..and I was no different. Even the Urologist I went to knew nothing of the  sympathetic nervous system and that was enough for me.

I would think at your age your T levels will benefit with a small helping hand if it has been somthing in the pills that had such a damaging effect, (it  would be interesting to know the generic side effects from the pills you were taking)
As mentioned by Davie already perhaps they have also caused some endocine disruption similar to the reaction he had with the antibiotics.

It is a sad world when you can't rely on the people you are supposed to trust the most outside of your wife /girlfiend/family in terms of looking after you physically and mentally...

Feel free to pm as can ceratinly relate to how you are feeling..there is light.. Stay strong...

 

Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: apericubes on March 31, 2013, 05:03:28 pm
my entire life changed from just a small chemical imbalance. i used to have loads of energy, up early stay up late, so happy i couldnt wait until tmrw if you know what i mean, crazy libido and sex was fireworks. ive been all over because no one  knew how to handle me, and i started to drink because my stupid doctor said he didnt carea bout my issue so i felt hopeless. the feelings of depression due to the low t were terrible. that glow wasnt there anymore. how long does it take to come back? so far i'm at 6 months with nothing muchyet.
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: davie12 on March 31, 2013, 07:14:47 pm
I'm in the same boat, but I'm trying to do something about it. One thing I've learned from a few weeks of research is that hormones can be rebalanced. The trick is first find out what exactly is off balance. It's like a car that won't run. You go through each system/component and see what isn't working (ie. battery, alternator, starter, serpentine belt, etc.) I've already had thyroid testing. I believe opiods/oxycodone can affect that as well. You need to do a full blood workup that will include such things as TSH (Thyroid Stimulating Hormone), Prolactin, as well as many others, etc. I noticed that you gained weight without eating more which can be a thyroid issue sometimes, although that would be accompanied by loss of appetite and constipation. The point is that you isolate what the specific hormones that are not at the correct levels and then structure the treatment accordingly.
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: apericubes on March 31, 2013, 07:20:33 pm
hey
..check out my first post all the numbers are there...t is the only thing that came back low but the doc says its low normal and doesntwanna do anything..
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: davie12 on March 31, 2013, 07:33:58 pm
You're correct. The T hormone measures are low...even below range, especially for someone in his 20s, or even my age group for that matter. However, the doctor first made sure to test my whole endocrine system which included a pituitary MRI, thyroid (physically feeling it), rectal exam, more bloodwork, etc. Since I am new to this myself, one thing I'm not sure of is how "cutting edge" Canadian healthcare is compared to here. I'm reading more and more that HCG, for example, is not prescribed in many places, or it is more of a challenge to obtain (if that ends up being a possible treatment). Or the concept of combining T-Cypionate with HCG to remain in a fertile state...even in the US that is more characteristic of anti-aging practices rather than regular conventional doctors. I've learned a tremendous amount. For example, you can have your T restored to normal healthy levels but your Estradiol will rise and then you will still have ED. I am concerned about that for myself right now, so I am finding out if my doc would prescribe a low dose aromatase inhibitor. I am trying to monitor my body carefully as I go through the first phase of my treatment...everything from sleeping patterns, morning wood, oily skin, volume of ejaculate, etc. There are a clear laundry list of symptoms that are supposed to improve during a course of treatment. Try to read more about these things. It isn't as simple as taking a pill or injection from a doctor. You need to get involved in designing the treatment.
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: PeakT on March 31, 2013, 07:45:27 pm
my entire life changed from just a small chemical imbalance. i used to have loads of energy, up early stay up late, so happy i couldnt wait until tmrw if you know what i mean, crazy libido and sex was fireworks. ive been all over because no one  knew how to handle me, and i started to drink because my stupid doctor said he didnt carea bout my issue so i felt hopeless. the feelings of depression due to the low t were terrible. that glow wasnt there anymore. how long does it take to come back? so far i'm at 6 months with nothing muchyet.

How about a fertility doc?  If you're a young guy, which you are, you may not want to jump on HRT right away anyway.  I'm not vouching for the safety of Clomid, but just a little Clomid along with some additonal lifestyle modifications may help you.

Also, that kind of high prolactin makes me wonder if you still don't have a dopamine-related issue?  You're not on any other medications or recreational drugs, right?

Young guys should really look at the their diet.  It's true that usually your cardiovascular system is still in good enough shape that you can eat almost anything.  But that's not necessarily true of the brain.  Young men can affect mental function with a poor diet - examples abound. 
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: apericubes on March 31, 2013, 07:55:48 pm
i saw my gfs  gp a week ago and an endo is supposed to call me within the week
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: davie12 on March 31, 2013, 08:07:16 pm
i saw my gfs  gp a week ago and an endo is supposed to call me within the week

The dr practices in Galveston, TX?? And went to a medical school in Romania?  Is that the correct person?
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: apericubes on March 31, 2013, 09:47:05 pm
yeah i beleive so, he has a practice here in toronto too
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: apericubes on April 01, 2013, 05:28:37 pm
the endo called today..wanted to have me in on thursday but gf is working so im in a week today!
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: PeakT on April 01, 2013, 05:45:00 pm
the endo called today..wanted to have me in on thursday but gf is working so im in a week today!

Congrats.  I just hope your endos are more proactive than ours...
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: apericubes on April 01, 2013, 09:23:44 pm
yours aren't? im surprised they could book in within a weeek
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: PeakT on April 01, 2013, 09:27:11 pm
yours aren't? im surprised they could book in within a weeek

No, over here, they rarely want to treat even very hypogonadal levels and you usually have to push them at that.
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: apericubes on April 01, 2013, 10:26:51 pm
from your experience, what strategy should i use to approach this doctor next week? any pointers?
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: apericubes on April 02, 2013, 04:18:40 am
i wasnt cronic but a few weeks is all it took
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: PeakT on April 02, 2013, 05:06:51 am
from your experience, what strategy should i use to approach this doctor next week? any pointers?

Sorry, but I can't really get into the push your doctor to do anything biz when it comes to pharmaceuticals.  But just point out the facts that you've dug up in your research.  My site, and many others of course, have lots of interesting stats on the effects of low testosterone and risks therein.  So just start talking and the doc may listen or he may have his mind made up already.  He gets paid to make quick and important decisions, so don't be suprised if it's the latter.
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: apericubes on April 02, 2013, 05:13:44 am
if it is the latter i will still be suffering in the same boat
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: PeakT on April 02, 2013, 05:45:27 am
if it is the latter i will still be suffering in the same boat

Well, then we'll hope for the best...
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: apericubes on April 02, 2013, 06:42:07 am
i really hope not..the feeling of impending doom i had in the beginning may come back
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: JackAndy on April 02, 2013, 12:32:47 pm
A lot of us have been to like 8 different doctors until we found one that was willing or capable of helping.
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: PeakT on April 02, 2013, 04:36:21 pm
A lot of us have been to like 8 different doctors until we found one that was willing or capable of helping.

And, at least in the U.S., things are MUCH better now than when moi was struggling with it.  It took years for me to find a good doc...
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: apericubes on April 02, 2013, 05:19:55 pm
that must be painful, im nervous for monday
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: PeakT on April 02, 2013, 08:22:20 pm
that must be painful, im nervous for monday

Yep.  Thus the site...
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: apericubes on April 03, 2013, 03:51:58 am
yeah, i've read up, some stuff is good material some doesnt apply to me, most of my friends say "mike, its all in your head", relax
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: PeakT on April 03, 2013, 01:41:05 pm
yeah, i've read up, some stuff is good material some doesnt apply to me, most of my friends say "mike, its all in your head", relax

Well, you've got to agree you're pretty high-anxiety, right?
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: davie12 on April 03, 2013, 01:57:00 pm
yeah, i've read up, some stuff is good material some doesnt apply to me, most of my friends say "mike, its all in your head", relax

Well, you've got to agree you're pretty high-anxiety, right?

For what it's worth, I was in the same boat. I was in freak out mode. I've spent several weeks reading on how the whole endocrine system works and what each blood test means and what an ideal level is in addition to the treatment options, side effects, benefits, etc. Now when I see the doc, I can work with him intelligently and design the treatment. Reading all these health forum discussions on this site and others is extremely helpful, as you can see real people using treatments and then find out the outcome from them and get advice.
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: apericubes on April 04, 2013, 02:23:46 am
how did u fix your problem?
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: davie12 on April 04, 2013, 01:31:35 pm
how did u fix your problem?

I'm working on it now. I'm going to speak to my doc about switching to HCG today and discuss rising estradiol. Are your symptoms basically unchanged for the most part or is there any natural recovery going on?
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: apericubes on April 04, 2013, 07:51:03 pm
pretty much unchanged
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: apericubes on April 05, 2013, 03:52:00 am
many people ask me about that, they say it should "bounce right back" after discontinuation of meds, it didnt for me, is this known??
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: apericubes on April 05, 2013, 04:53:05 am


another question

morning erections usually a pretty good indicator of overall physical health and test levels correct? prior to taking the pain pills i had RAGING morning erections like 5 days  a week, they would like last 10 minutes, so fierce i would have to lean against the wall and learn to pee while hard (it took a minute to happen)...now it never happens...thoughts?
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: PeakT on April 05, 2013, 01:53:37 pm


another question

morning erections usually a pretty good indicator of overall physical health and test levels correct? prior to taking the pain pills i had RAGING morning erections like 5 days  a week, they would like last 10 minutes, so fierce i would have to lean against the wall and learn to pee while hard (it took a minute to happen)...now it never happens...thoughts?

And nitric oxide and probably dopamine - so, yes, it's a pretty good indicator for us guys of general health.  So, yes, something obviously changed negatively - I agree.
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: apericubes on April 06, 2013, 06:29:55 am
what about n.o and dopamine?
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: apericubes on April 08, 2013, 02:12:07 am
big day tm at the endo!!!
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: PeakT on April 08, 2013, 12:17:29 pm
big day tm at the endo!!!
Good luck...
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: apericubes on April 09, 2013, 12:19:38 am
hello sir
this doc today was amazing, he knew everything, said its hypogonadism, on emore blood test tmrw, and starting 3 months of clomid next wednesday ! thoughts
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: PeakT on April 09, 2013, 02:14:40 am
hello sir
this doc today was amazing, he knew everything, said its hypogonadism, on emore blood test tmrw, and starting 3 months of clomid next wednesday ! thoughts

Congrats on getting some kind of treatment going.  Let us know how it works for you.  Use the search on the top and you can see there are a wide variety of reactions to Clomid. 
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: apericubes on April 09, 2013, 03:20:36 am
whats ur personal opinion? he said if clomid doesnt work we can do testosterone undacanoate, 4 injections annually but i will be sterile, and it has to be discussed if it comes up.
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: davie12 on April 09, 2013, 04:35:46 am
whats ur personal opinion? he said if clomid doesnt work we can do testosterone undacanoate, 4 injections annually but i will be sterile, and it has to be discussed if it comes up.

You're kind of in the same place I was in a couple of months ago. I'm taking Clomid and have had some increase in T, but not as much, and the doctor upped my dosage, since he said I was initially on a relatively low dose and sometimes it takes longer to see results. I am switching to HCG shortly as there is better symptomatic benefit from everyone I talk to plus I understand a number of other benefits. Additionally, I had a sperm analysis done before starting treatment. The "4 injections annually" comment made by the doctor made me wonder about his opinion on spikes and troughs. The cutting edge treatment from people I talk to is frequent small self-administered injections so that there are no spikes/troughs (ie. highs/lows) but rather a more consistent feeling. Thus, it better mirrors the body's own production of T. Plus, HCG can be cycled in every other day to preserve fertility/testes. Did the doctor talk about HCG at all...be it as a stand alone treatment or combined with T? Also, I would be curious about a semen analysis as well. I've had 2 of them done just to see my baseline starting point before treatment and that was helpful to know. However, no matter what, Clomid is helpful on that front in improving sperm characteristics.
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: PeakT on April 09, 2013, 05:19:12 am
whats ur personal opinion? he said if clomid doesnt work we can do testosterone undacanoate, 4 injections annually but i will be sterile, and it has to be discussed if it comes up.

You're kind of in the same place I was in a couple of months ago. I'm taking Clomid and have had some increase in T, but not as much, and the doctor upped my dosage, since he said I was initially on a relatively low dose and sometimes it takes longer to see results. I am switching to HCG shortly as there is better symptomatic benefit from everyone I talk to plus I understand a number of other benefits. Additionally, I had a sperm analysis done before starting treatment. The "4 injections annually" comment made by the doctor made me wonder about his opinion on spikes and troughs. The cutting edge treatment from people I talk to is frequent small self-administered injections so that there are no spikes/troughs (ie. highs/lows) but rather a more consistent feeling. Thus, it better mirrors the body's own production of T. Plus, HCG can be cycled in every other day to preserve fertility/testes. Did the doctor talk about HCG at all...be it as a stand alone treatment or combined with T? Also, I would be curious about a semen analysis as well. I've had 2 of them done just to see my baseline starting point before treatment and that was helpful to know. However, no matter what, Clomid is helpful on that front in improving sperm characteristics.

One thing you hear about Clomid is that it just loses effectiveness after a few months.  Makes me wonder if that's why he had to up the dosage?
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: PeakT on April 09, 2013, 02:48:57 pm
Apericubes:

Davie wanted you to read this:

https://www.peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=1232.0
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: apericubes on April 11, 2013, 11:48:03 pm
i read it, i wont lie im scared about my outcome 
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: PeakT on April 12, 2013, 03:39:47 am
i read it, i wont lie im scared about my outcome

Hang in there.   Nobody can promise you anything, but usually young guys can recover nicely.
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: apericubes on April 15, 2013, 07:07:42 pm
a friend of mine bodybuilds and takes test enthanate for gains etc and says he gets uncontrollable erections and libido, thoughts?
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: PeakT on April 15, 2013, 08:54:28 pm
a friend of mine bodybuilds and takes test enthanate for gains etc and says he gets uncontrollable erections and libido, thoughts?

If you're young and have ample T with a good endothelium, this can happen.  There's no need to take extra testosterone though (unless you are low) - that's overkill...
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: davie12 on April 16, 2013, 12:37:31 pm
a friend of mine bodybuilds and takes test enthanate for gains etc and says he gets uncontrollable erections and libido, thoughts?

I'm sure this is true...just keep in mind that this shuts down natural production, so fertility is an issue.
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: PeakT on April 16, 2013, 03:37:20 pm

I'm sure this is true...just keep in mind that this shuts down natural production, so fertility is an issue.

Apericubes:  Am I remembering wrong?  I thought your testosterone was 700?  I k now it was at one time, but did it go down after the pain killers?
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: apericubes on April 16, 2013, 05:24:31 pm
i never had a "before reading" just after and it was like 296 (i converted it)
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: PeakT on April 16, 2013, 06:03:54 pm
i never had a "before reading" just after and it was like 296 (i converted it)

Okay, well testosterone can really help men if you're low as you know.  Your friend's description would be typical for a young guy with a good endothelium and no other underlying medical issues.

But fertility is something to discuss with your doc along with any medical conditions.

Enanthate is similar to cypionate that you see us talking about so often here in the U.S.
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: apericubes on April 16, 2013, 06:54:45 pm
well im in canada, the doc said if clomid doesn't work then he'll put me in test undacanoate, he swears by it, says its 'excellent" and only requires 4 injections annually.  , but fertility is an issue.. this sucks i had to do this to myself, apparently 5 to 10 percent of oxycodone users get the side effect i got (halting of test production naturally) and its still low after 6 months. as to before this all happened, i had so much energy, up at 7 am detailing my bmw, then gym, then work, and have sex /masturbate like 5 times a day and i could go as long as i wanted...so happy i was living on a cloud..thenthis stuff really messed me up, i just want my old chemistry back.
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: davie12 on April 16, 2013, 08:10:58 pm
well im in canada, the doc said if clomid doesn't work then he'll put me in test undacanoate, he swears by it, says its 'excellent" and only requires 4 injections annually.  , but fertility is an issue.. this sucks i had to do this to myself, apparently 5 to 10 percent of oxycodone users get the side effect i got (halting of test production naturally) and its still low after 6 months. as to before this all happened, i had so much energy, up at 7 am detailing my bmw, then gym, then work, and have sex /masturbate like 5 times a day and i could go as long as i wanted...so happy i was living on a cloud..thenthis stuff really messed me up, i just want my old chemistry back.

FYI...I'm going through the same process right now, and there's a little more to it than a quarterly injection. I hope your doctor understands the role of Estradiol and its role with symptomatic benefit. If you raise T too quickly and don't manage Estradiol, forget about boners, be it morning or nighttime wood or for regular sex. Additionally, you may not want to get your hopes too high with Clomid. There is virtually no one who swears by it in making them feel like a horny adolescent. My personal belief is that Clomid might be useful for someone who doesn't already have really significant low T symptoms, but wants to boost FSH, and thus sperm count. There is also a lot more to look at in the bloodwork just to make sure that everything is OK. The doctor should be putting more analysis in this than just having a couple of tricks up his sleeve...namely, Clomid or a quarterly T injection. What about HCG? Was that discussed? What about banking sperm or doing a semen analysis? There are a lot of angles/strategies to this situation that should be considered.
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: apericubes on April 17, 2013, 01:41:25 am
i see him tmrw, any tips on what i should ask? is see him at 130 pm
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: davie12 on April 17, 2013, 04:26:42 am
i see him tmrw, any tips on what i should ask? is see him at 130 pm

Print out this discussion and bring it with you as a guide as far as what to ask.
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: apericubes on April 17, 2013, 05:42:56 am
no printer at the moment, lol, what should i write on a list and ask about? if clomid is good long term? will it last?  hcg? etc
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: apericubes on April 18, 2013, 06:00:41 am
i went today, he gave me the choice of low amount test undacanoate shots or clomid 25mg day for 90 days, my gf and i chose the clomid route and it costed 300 dollars canadian for 3 months supply (no insurance). he says a lot of steroid and painkiller abusers come to him with their wives with similar stories... i just wonder if it will work, if its a temporary/permanent fix... or if i shoul dhave taken the testosterone route, at  age 28...also, my test level went up from 7.4 in feb to 11.3 a week ago, on its own, on a scale of 3 to 30...and i do feel a tiny bit better, still low libido and energy though with ed

let me know what everyone thinks


thanks
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: JackAndy on April 18, 2013, 06:13:42 am
Clomid was the right choice by far for many reasons. So congrats. Hopefully it works for you. What's your dosing like?
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: apericubes on May 02, 2013, 08:53:51 am
just an update, i curbed the alcoholism about a week ago and noticed soem great changes, appetite is back, erections are slowly comingback (i can aacheive them but notmaintain them as much as i would want to be...a year ago i could sit on my comp watching porn for 2 hours rock hard until i decided to let loose (no pun intended) ) now i kinda gotta hurry through it....libido with the gf is coming back slow, i feel closer to her, the clomid does seem to be working, i'm almost eating better (salmon, veggies, tuna, steak, eggs) and taking my multi's from gnc and some tribulus supplement and magnesium...i checked in to a addictions centre becfause the depression from the low t drove me into an alcoholic for a few months and they gave me a few days of valiums to get me over the hump, they give me a sedating "everythings going to be alright "type attitude...


any thoughts anyone?
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: PeakT on May 02, 2013, 01:49:18 pm

any thoughts anyone?

Yeah, a 1000 congrats!
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: jinNE on May 02, 2013, 02:58:25 pm
AWESOME! I love hearing these success stories - even though I'm sure it just feels like a small step, it is a HUGE step!

Well done - keep at it. :)
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: PeakT on May 02, 2013, 04:44:34 pm
And, apericubes, I can tell just from one post that you can think more clearly now!  You're about to get your life back...Keep working on it...
Title: Re: LOW T FROM PAIN PILLS- HELP
Post by: PeakT on July 30, 2013, 06:14:20 am
I split his latest post out here:

https://www.peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=1917.0