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General Category => Testosterone, Hormones and General Men's Health => Topic started by: jinNE on April 10, 2013, 07:53:46 pm

Title: Trying Pellets
Post by: jinNE on April 10, 2013, 07:53:46 pm
OK, this finally did it for me.

I called and scheduled to have the pellets put in on Monday. I haven't gotten my levels as high as I'd like with 2 tubes (settled in the 500s). It's a pain to deal with every day (I imagine summer will be worse), and now this article.

I am not convinced I can give myself the big ol' intra-muscular injection.

so, pellets it is. I'll let you all know how it goes.

PS: I am actually VERY excited to try this... :)

Also, I'm in week four of no wheat and it's great! I need to get a new update post made...
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: PeakT on April 10, 2013, 08:56:35 pm
JinEE made this comment after he read about the possible cardiovascular issues with the topicals. 

I split it out so hopefully he can weigh in what he though of the procedure and so on.  A couple of thin guys have reported that the procedure can be a little painful if you don't have much bodyfat.  But what's a little discomfort for three months of pretty level testosterone, eh?

Btw, you did check your insurance out, right?  It's pretty expensive.

And i can't remember:  you don't want kids, right?  (I'm asking cuzz sometimes doctors forget to ask.)
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: jinNE on April 10, 2013, 10:35:32 pm
Thanks PeakT,

I'm 43 with two teen-agers and I'm "fixed", so no worries about kids. I even froze some sprem way back when just in case, though I can't remember who has it! LOL

I don't think my insurance will cover it at all. The doc quoted me $500 to do this, and I believe his goal is to test my levels at the four month mark. The nurse seems to think I might get lucky and get 5 months out of this, but I'm betting on four. I have been using two tubes of testim and with the testim coupon and my insurance, that's been costing me about $45 a month, so this treatment at four months (if I get that) will be about $320 more. However, if it can get my levels higher than the topical and I don't have to worry about it every day - it will probably be worth it.

I'm skeptical but optimistic...

Edit: This is encouraging - I will call BCBS tomorrow http://mcgs.bcbsfl.com/?doc=Subcutaneous%20Hormone%20Pellet%20Implants
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: PeakT on April 11, 2013, 03:32:22 am
Thanks PeakT,

I'm 43 with two teen-agers and I'm "fixed", so no worries about kids. I even froze some sprem way back when just in case, though I can't remember who has it! LOL

I don't think my insurance will cover it at all. The doc quoted me $500 to do this, and I believe his goal is to test my levels at the four month mark. The nurse seems to think I might get lucky and get 5 months out of this, but I'm betting on four. I have been using two tubes of testim and with the testim coupon and my insurance, that's been costing me about $45 a month, so this treatment at four months (if I get that) will be about $320 more. However, if it can get my levels higher than the topical and I don't have to worry about it every day - it will probably be worth it.

I'm skeptical but optimistic...

Edit: This is encouraging - I will call BCBS tomorrow http://mcgs.bcbsfl.com/?doc=Subcutaneous%20Hormone%20Pellet%20Implants

He's giving you a good deal.  One comment though:  I don't think men normally can wait five months for pellets.  Four months may even be pushing it, so if you're int'd,  I'd ask to get tested at some reasonable interim point to make sure you are not going too low (if you can afford it).
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: jinNE on April 11, 2013, 02:04:02 pm
Thanks PeakT,

I found out insurance will cover it - AFTER I meet my $2,000 annual deductable. So basically, it's all out of pocket. I do think he's giving me a deal because he has a lot of women doing this, not as many men. I will talk to him about about testing earlier - at least BCBS seems to cover my lab tests...
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: PeakT on April 11, 2013, 03:48:44 pm
Thanks PeakT,

I found out insurance will cover it - AFTER I meet my $2,000 annual deductable. So basically, it's all out of pocket. I do think he's giving me a deal because he has a lot of women doing this, not as many men. I will talk to him about about testing earlier - at least BCBS seems to cover my lab tests...

Well, I admire for spending some cash to improve your health - or at least that's the way I see it.

Women doing pellets?  Tell me more. 
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: jinNE on April 16, 2013, 12:37:28 pm
So I got the pellets yesterday. The numbing shot was nasty but then there was no pain during the procedure. However, there was lots of pushing and wiggling back there and it freaked me out. I was afraid he'd push past the numb spot but he didn't. The nurse told me that never happens. I was pretty nervous but now that I know what to expect, I hope it goes easier next time.

He used six 200mg pellets (1,200mg total- does this seem high?) and I'm sealed up with a large clear bandage. There is lots of bleeding, but it is all sealed under this bandage.

Whatever he used for the anesthetic must have been strong, because even at bed time I did't feel anything. However, it wore off and I could not get comfortable and had a crummy night of sleep. Couldn't get up to work out, so came into work early. It hurts to sit. Hopefully this will get better today.

Something has been off this last week - either my T or my E2. Last tested about 6 weeks ago I was at 14 for E2 and I went from two pills a week to one. The doc has told me not to take any Arimidex and will test all my levels in one month. At that time, I will have been off of wheat for 2 months, so I hope to see my insulin and triglycerides drop - we'll see. He left the HCG shots optimal and I think I'll get off them.

Since it takes up to two weeks for the pellets to kick in, I will continue my two tubes of Testim for about 10 days.

I'll post more when I know more. :)
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: PeakT on April 16, 2013, 03:36:43 pm
So I got the pellets yesterday. The numbing shot was nasty but then there was no pain during the procedure. However, there was lots of pushing and wiggling back there and it freaked me out. I was afraid he'd push past the numb spot but he didn't. The nurse told me that never happens. I was pretty nervous but now that I know what to expect, I hope it goes easier next time.

He used six 200mg pellets (1,200mg total- does this seem high?) and I'm sealed up with a large clear bandage. There is lots of bleeding, but it is all sealed under this bandage.

Whatever he used for the anesthetic must have been strong, because even at bed time I did't feel anything. However, it wore off and I could not get comfortable and had a crummy night of sleep. Couldn't get up to work out, so came into work early. It hurts to sit. Hopefully this will get better today.

Something has been off this last week - either my T or my E2. Last tested about 6 weeks ago I was at 14 for E2 and I went from two pills a week to one. The doc has told me not to take any Arimidex and will test all my levels in one month. At that time, I will have been off of wheat for 2 months, so I hope to see my insulin and triglycerides drop - we'll see. He left the HCG shots optimal and I think I'll get off them.

Since it takes up to two weeks for the pellets to kick in, I will continue my two tubes of Testim for about 10 days.

I'll post more when I know more. :)

I wouldn't do the Testim unless your doctor told you to.  Here is why:

1.  The topicals may be dangerous.  See this thread: https://www.peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=1223.msg11528#msg11528
2.  You won't need it.  Pellets start raising  your testosterone pretty rapidly.
3.  Testim and the other topicals seem to shut down testosterone production in some guys. 

Just let the pellets do their work.

Also, that is low E2 and so I think your doctor is doing the right thing.  I would definitely get tested though per his request.  Let us know what comes of it.

Remember:  there are MANY things that can make us feel subpar.  Keep working on all of your health:  endothelium, immunity, sleep and stress, etc.  No need to be weird about it, but keep making small daily improvements.  In six months you can be a new person if you keep after it...
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: jinNE on April 16, 2013, 04:39:26 pm
Thanks PeakT.

I am actively working on ALL of those items you mentioned. He was going to give me a T shot to last for a week while the pellets kick in, then I mentioned I still have Testim and he said to use that. In hindsight, I wish I would have let him give me the shot. This was right after he numbed me though, and the thought of another needle was really not cool. I am already scheduled for blood work in a month - will not miss it.

I hear the pellets take 10 to 14 days to kick in, and I have some travel that I need to be up for. Have you heard differently?
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: PeakT on April 16, 2013, 05:46:56 pm

I hear the pellets take 10 to 14 days to kick in, and I have some travel that I need to be up for. Have you heard differently?

I think I've got a chart somewhere.  Let me see if I can find that.

Cypionate shots are not painful.  Less than an ant bite.
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: jinNE on April 16, 2013, 07:38:58 pm
I've had the shots and they are fine. The numbing shot hurt like hell though, and I was not in a frame of mind to ask for another. :)
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: PeakT on April 16, 2013, 08:21:55 pm
I've had the shots and they are fine. The numbing shot hurt like hell though, and I was not in a frame of mind to ask for another. :)

Numbing shot??  For cypionate?  The volume of fluid is not that great, especially for weekly, and the needles are small.
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: jinNE on April 16, 2013, 08:40:04 pm
Sorry, let me clarify.

I was face down on the table with my bare ass in the air, just having had the numbing shot for the pellets. when he suggested I also get a T shot while I was there, I thought my left-over Testim was a much better idea.

Sorry for the visual... :)
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: PeakT on April 16, 2013, 08:49:09 pm
Sorry, let me clarify.

I was face down on the table with my bare ass in the air, just having had the numbing shot for the pellets. when he suggested I also get a T shot while I was there, I thought my left-over Testim was a much better idea.

Sorry for the visual... :)

Feeling a little vulnerable at that point, eh?  No, that makes more sense...
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: jinNE on April 19, 2013, 01:38:10 pm
So I am four days in after having the pellets inserted. I'm still quite sore, and that's keeping me up at night because I can't get comfortable. I decided to do my workout today as I just can't stand not working out that long (I'm still amazed I feel that way about exercise...). I have been using my two tubes of Testim to keep me level while the pellets kick in and I will probably stop using them after Sunday's application.

I am not really noticing a difference yet from just taking Testim. At this time, I'm not sure I'll do them again as suffering from pain from insertion for a week makes me question the whole thing. Perhaps in another week the pain will be gone and I'll be soaring with T and will forget all about this in three months; we'll see. If I went in to see my doc today, I would be asking him to let me do two sub-Q injections on my own a week instead. He doens't do this - only intramuscular. I might be his first case study for the sub-Q...

Perhaps I'm just a bit bitter from the pain in my ass. :)

I'll keep you all posted as things change...
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: PeakT on April 19, 2013, 04:16:07 pm
So I am four days in after having the pellets inserted. I'm still quite sore, and that's keeping me up at night because I can't get comfortable. I decided to do my workout today as I just can't stand not working out that long (I'm still amazed I feel that way about exercise...). I have been using my two tubes of Testim to keep me level while the pellets kick in and I will probably stop using them after Sunday's application.

I am not really noticing a difference yet from just taking Testim. At this time, I'm not sure I'll do them again as suffering from pain from insertion for a week makes me question the whole thing. Perhaps in another week the pain will be gone and I'll be soaring with T and will forget all about this in three months; we'll see. If I went in to see my doc today, I would be asking him to let me do two sub-Q injections on my own a week instead. He doens't do this - only intramuscular. I might be his first case study for the sub-Q...

Perhaps I'm just a bit bitter from the pain in my ass. :)

I'll keep you all posted as things change...

You're not the first one to experience the pain.  You can also occasionally lose a pellet or get a localized infection as well.  So it's not perfect...

Why are you set on subQ instead of intramuscular?

Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: jinNE on April 19, 2013, 08:22:11 pm
I am used to giving sub-q injections, but looking at that needle and thinking of jamming it into my leg - well, I haven't wrapped my head around it yet. I might have to give it a try, if the pellets don't wow me. My wife REFUSES to give me a shot. My son is willing though - maybe I'll let him try.
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: PeakT on April 19, 2013, 09:53:28 pm
I am used to giving sub-q injections, but looking at that needle and thinking of jamming it into my leg - well, I haven't wrapped my head around it yet. I might have to give it a try, if the pellets don't wow me. My wife REFUSES to give me a shot. My son is willing though - maybe I'll let him try.

Jam it in?  It's a very small needle and it's not that much fluid.  90% of the time there's no pain.  Sometimes you hit a little nerve, but even then it's just an ant bite.
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: jinNE on April 22, 2013, 01:14:48 pm
Well, I can tell you I am damned excited to give myself a T shot after this week. :)

So today is one week from the pellet insertion. On Friday I removed the banadage and noticed my cheek was VERY VERY swollen. Also, there are two hard patches from where he actually put the pellets (in two groups). It still hurts to sit, jogging is uncomfortable, and I'm still not sleeping well as it's pretty "awakening" when I try to roll over in bed. I iced it a bit this weekend and the swelling is down some, but not all the way. Nothing appears to be infected.

I have been supplimenting with Testim until the pellets kicked in, and today is the first day without Testim. I was nice not to have to mess with that mess today. My energy is up and I got a lot of physical to-dos off my list this weekend.

At this point, I'd have to feel like superman for three months to consider this again. The bright side is it's made self- injection very appealing.
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: PeakT on April 22, 2013, 01:47:04 pm
This is the big down side of pellets for some men in my opinion.  I also think the fact that it tapers off leaves a guy questionable for a month or so.
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: jinNE on April 22, 2013, 03:07:27 pm
Now that I've experienced it, I wonder how anyone can have this done and NOT have the issues I'm experiencing. It seems pretty traumatic to the muscle...
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: PeakT on April 22, 2013, 04:15:05 pm
Now that I've experienced it, I wonder how anyone can have this done and NOT have the issues I'm experiencing. It seems pretty traumatic to the muscle...

Yes, absolutely:  some men have minimal discomfort with pellets and that is only for a day or two.  I don't know whether it's doctor technique or what.  It does seem to be somewhat dependent on body fat...
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: Quincy on April 22, 2013, 04:52:38 pm
I'm not that familiar with pellets but thought it was placed under the fat layer on your glute up against the muscle tissue.

I don't think I would want pellets if they are having to insert several rice size pellets into the muscle tissue. I can see how that would hurt for days.
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: PeakT on April 22, 2013, 05:13:20 pm
I'm not that familiar with pellets but thought it was placed under the fat layer on your glute up against the muscle tissue.

I don't think I would want pellets if they are having to insert several rice size pellets into the muscle tissue. I can see how that would hurt for days.

It's actualy close to the surface and you can actually feel them sometimes, i.e. there's a little bump.  And it's a little more on the hip I would say...

Again, check out the YouTube videos out there. 
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: jinNE on April 22, 2013, 07:29:15 pm
I'm not that familiar with pellets but thought it was placed under the fat layer on your glute up against the muscle tissue.

I don't think I would want pellets if they are having to insert several rice size pellets into the muscle tissue. I can see how that would hurt for days.

The doctor remarked that I had a lot of muscle back there. Maybe he thought I was cute? lol Actually, I work out regularly and do have strong glutes. Maybe if he would have been just a bit higher he'd have hit more fat. Right now, there is no "little bump", there are two big bumps. At least I know they will dissolve...
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: davie12 on April 25, 2013, 03:33:20 am
I'm not that familiar with pellets but thought it was placed under the fat layer on your glute up against the muscle tissue.

I don't think I would want pellets if they are having to insert several rice size pellets into the muscle tissue. I can see how that would hurt for days.

The doctor remarked that I had a lot of muscle back there. Maybe he thought I was cute? lol Actually, I work out regularly and do have strong glutes. Maybe if he would have been just a bit higher he'd have hit more fat. Right now, there is no "little bump", there are two big bumps. At least I know they will dissolve...

So, can I assume the jury is still out as to whether you recommend this treatment? I suppose more time is needed to assess how effective the T is with that delivery method plus the healing of the pellet insertion area.
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: jinNE on April 25, 2013, 02:33:35 pm
So I am a week and a half into it and the pain is gone. The swelling appears to be gone as well, but I do have two hard patches where the pellets have been inserted. I know they say they are the size of a grain of rice, but a patch of six of them appears as though he inserted a vanilla wafer (my wife's words) under the skin. One patch is just a bit tender if pushed directly.

I am feeling pretty damn good at the moment. I had an erection last night where, during sex, I had to ask myself if I took a Viagra and forgot. Seriously. Also, the sex was more pleasurable and intense, like when I was younger and was more easily excited. It was an "ah ha!" moment. Also, I tend to wake up in the middle of the night with an erection (now that I have been on HRT), and last night it was VERY hard - harder than usual.

I can only judge that my T levels are up higher than they've been in ages. I'll keep you posted.
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: PeakT on April 25, 2013, 04:12:26 pm
I am feeling pretty damn good at the moment. I had an erection last night where, during sex, I had to ask myself if I took a Viagra and forgot. Seriously. Also, the sex was more pleasurable and intense, like when I was younger and was more easily excited. It was an "ah ha!" moment. Also, I tend to wake up in the middle of the night with an erection (now that I have been on HRT), and last night it was VERY hard - harder than usual.


If this goes away, then discuss with your doc getting your estradiol measured.
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: jinNE on April 25, 2013, 06:43:16 pm
will do. I have a 1 month follow-up to pull these numbers scheduled already, so I'm on the path...
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: davie12 on April 25, 2013, 09:53:05 pm
So I am a week and a half into it and the pain is gone. The swelling appears to be gone as well, but I do have two hard patches where the pellets have been inserted. I know they say they are the size of a grain of rice, but a patch of six of them appears as though he inserted a vanilla wafer (my wife's words) under the skin. One patch is just a bit tender if pushed directly.

I am feeling pretty damn good at the moment. I had an erection last night where, during sex, I had to ask myself if I took a Viagra and forgot. Seriously. Also, the sex was more pleasurable and intense, like when I was younger and was more easily excited. It was an "ah ha!" moment. Also, I tend to wake up in the middle of the night with an erection (now that I have been on HRT), and last night it was VERY hard - harder than usual.

I can only judge that my T levels are up higher than they've been in ages. I'll keep you posted.

Sounds like good progress. I was wondering...what does it feel like to sit down all day...presuming you have an office type job? Is it noticeable?
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: jinNE on April 26, 2013, 02:11:56 pm
I do have an office job, so I'm sitting a lot. In the first week, it was a constain pain. Not unbearable, but always there. Getting in and out of a chair was the worst part due to the muscle movement. Since the implants are higher up the cheek, you are not actually sitting on them.

I do not feel them when setting now in week 2. I SWORE in week one I would never do it again. I just had a monster workout this morning and fee FREAKING AWESOME. If this continues, I will really consider taking the pain every three to four months.
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: PeakT on April 26, 2013, 04:01:10 pm
I do have an office job, so I'm sitting a lot. In the first week, it was a constain pain. Not unbearable, but always there. Getting in and out of a chair was the worst part due to the muscle movement. Since the implants are higher up the cheek, you are not actually sitting on them.

I do not feel them when setting now in week 2. I SWORE in week one I would never do it again. I just had a monster workout this morning and fee FREAKING AWESOME. If this continues, I will really consider taking the pain every three to four months.

The nice thing about pellets is that you have no maintenance, i.e. no weekly or biweekly injections/patches/daily application of gels, for several months.  Another alternative along these lines is Nebido (testosterone undecanoate).  It's not very popular yet in the U.S. though...

MODERATOR UPDATE:  Nebido is not approved in the U.S. yet.
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: jinNE on April 26, 2013, 07:42:19 pm
I've not heard of that. Do you have an article on it PeakT? I'll do some googling...
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: PeakT on April 26, 2013, 08:00:30 pm
I've not heard of that. Do you have an article on it PeakT? I'll do some googling...

I haven't done an article on it, although I should since undecanoate has been around for a long time.  But here is the home page:

http://www.nebido.com/
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: jinNE on April 29, 2013, 01:46:19 am
Update: Saturday I was very excited as the pain was gone. I was explaining this to my wife and reached back to feel them as I was talking. My hand felt wet and it freaked me out; I expected to see a lot of blood. It was actually clear fluid (like water), which then made me worry about infection since the wound hasn't closed. I did use the treadmill for 30 minutes and did some dumbell squats. It's been almost two weeks, so I expected that to be fine. My wife took at look, and low and behold something small and "crumbly" came out. Looks like I like all or part of a pellet. We put neosporin on it and bandaged it up.

Last I checked, the area was not red and didn't show signs of infection. However, as I sit here, the area is itching. This JUST started about an hour ago and my gut tells me another is working itss way up.

I read that older guys that have less muscle and more fat really like the pellets. I'm struggling though. I feel pretty good, though not "over the top". Haven't noticed an increase in libido short of one experience on Friday.
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: PeakT on April 29, 2013, 02:09:14 am
Update: Saturday I was very excited as the pain was gone. I was explaining this to my wife and reached back to feel them as I was talking. My hand felt wet and it freaked me out; I expected to see a lot of blood. It was actually clear fluid (like water), which then made me worry about infection since the wound hasn't closed. I did use the treadmill for 30 minutes and did some dumbell squats. It's been almost two weeks, so I expected that to be fine. My wife took at look, and low and behold something small and "crumbly" came out. Looks like I like all or part of a pellet. We put neosporin on it and bandaged it up.

Last I checked, the area was not red and didn't show signs of infection. However, as I sit here, the area is itching. This JUST started about an hour ago and my gut tells me another is working itss way up.

I read that older guys that have less muscle and more fat really like the pellets. I'm struggling though. I feel pretty good, though not "over the top". Haven't noticed an increase in libido short of one experience on Friday.

Don't mess around with infections.  Get it checked.  Comments:

Some urologist will give you a few days of antibiotics before the procedure for this reason.

pellets falling out does happen.
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: jinNE on April 30, 2013, 04:33:24 pm
A couple days have gone by and all seems well. Actually, the most normal look/feel yet...
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: PeakT on April 30, 2013, 04:42:22 pm
A couple days have gone by and all seems well. Actually, the most normal look/feel yet...

Okay, great news.  Well, you sound like you know what you want to do...
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: jinNE on May 06, 2013, 01:29:41 pm
So, week three. The swelling is gone and you can't really see the implants. Still scabbed up though.

Mood - surprisingly good and level considering the stress going on.
Energy - not bad. I think it was higher on Testim, but perhaps it's my new workout that's dragging me down.
Libido and related - not good. It's definitely lower that while on testim, and this is dissappointing.

I am wonder if my E2 is up and that is what is affecting the libido. I am going in a week from today (next Monday) for full blood work, so we'll see.

Regardless, I think I'm sold on self-injections of T. I just think the pellets are a lot of trauma to inflict on the muscles 4 times a year...

PS: I do like not having to cover myself in Testim every day...
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: PeakT on May 06, 2013, 01:53:05 pm
Any chance you can go into the doc and push to get your E2 checked?  If you tell him your libido/energy issues, he might go for it?

Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: Quincy on May 06, 2013, 03:00:36 pm

Regardless, I think I'm sold on self-injections of T. I just think the pellets are a lot of trauma to inflict on the muscles 4 times a year...

I think some doctors are a lot better than others at doing the implant procedure. I'm just speculating but sounds like your doctor is not well trained. It shouldn't be that traumatic.

Shots are not that bad really. Using a small gauge needle (#25) and it is really pretty painless. Sometimes I can't even feel it when my wife sticks me in the butt. Other times you feel it more but never painful. The smaller gauge needle also doesn't leave you sore for a day or two like the fatter diameter needles.



Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: PeakT on May 06, 2013, 03:54:54 pm

I think some doctors are a lot better than others at doing the implant procedure. I'm just speculating but sounds like your doctor is not well trained. It shouldn't be that traumatic.


Pellets can leave some guys hurting for days.  I don't think it has that much to do with the physician as I've heard several men complain of this.
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: jinNE on May 06, 2013, 04:01:42 pm
Great idea Peak, I'm calling my Dr. now to see if I can get in earlier for a blood draw.

My doc has done this quite a bit, but mostly for women. I thought I was in trouble with the amount of force he seemed to be using and his (somewhat surprised) comment about me having a lot of muscle there. I've seen some photos online, and I could have been in a lot rougher shape than what I was.

I will have to do intramuscular in my inner thigh, apparently. My wife doesn't want anything to do with giving shots. My son would do it, but geeze, he's only about 15. :)
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: PeakT on May 06, 2013, 04:06:49 pm
Great idea Peak, I'm calling my Dr. now to see if I can get in earlier for a blood draw.

My doc has done this quite a bit, but mostly for women. I thought I was in trouble with the amount of force he seemed to be using and his (somewhat surprised) comment about me having a lot of muscle there. I've seen some photos online, and I could have been in a lot rougher shape than what I was.

I will have to do intramuscular in my inner thigh, apparently. My wife doesn't want anything to do with giving shots. My son would do it, but geeze, he's only about 15. :)

Cypionate gives very nice, stable levels, but you almost for sure will need your E2 monitored with injections. 
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: jinNE on May 06, 2013, 07:45:36 pm
ah, well, turns out I needed it monitored with Testim (but got it down and off Arimidex), now with pellets (moved appointment to tomorrow), so I am sure injections as well. My doc is all about the follow-up, so no worries there.
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: PeakT on May 06, 2013, 09:30:39 pm
So I am four days in after having the pellets inserted. I'm still quite sore, and that's keeping me up at night because I can't get comfortable. I decided to do my workout today as I just can't stand not working out that long (I'm still amazed I feel that way about exercise...). I have been using my two tubes of Testim to keep me level while the pellets kick in and I will probably stop using them after Sunday's application.

I am not really noticing a difference yet from just taking Testim. At this time, I'm not sure I'll do them again as suffering from pain from insertion for a week makes me question the whole thing. Perhaps in another week the pain will be gone and I'll be soaring with T and will forget all about this in three months; we'll see. If I went in to see my doc today, I would be asking him to let me do two sub-Q injections on my own a week instead. He doens't do this - only intramuscular. I might be his first case study for the sub-Q...

Perhaps I'm just a bit bitter from the pain in my ass. :)

I'll keep you all posted as things change...

Have you seen Crisler's training video for SubQ?
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: jinNE on May 07, 2013, 02:24:02 pm
Yes, and today I hope to get an answer from my doc on why he doesn't offer this. Maybe it's just not something he's done before, but he might be willing to let me be his test subject.

If not, I'll man up for the intramuscular.

Going in this afternoon. I suspect they'll draw blood and then he'll tell me to go on Arimidex... We'll see.
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: PeakT on May 07, 2013, 03:12:54 pm
Yes, and today I hope to get an answer from my doc on why he doesn't offer this.

It's kind of a "sports medicine" thing at this point.  I have only seen a couple of guys on the forum, for example, doing subQ.  Just type it into the search above and you'll see what I mean.
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: jinNE on May 08, 2013, 07:20:43 pm
OK - Doc said the symptoms sounded like high E2, and I did aramatise on Testim, so that's a good bet. He had me take an Arimidex same day (yesterday) and one today. He also pulled blood work yesterday and will prescribe Arimidex 2 to 3 times a week based on the bloodwork.

I'm getting jazzed. If my E2 levels are high like last time (over 62 last time) that means I probably have some T juice flowing but I'm not enjoying the benefits of it due to E2. In theory, I could be feeling really, really good in a week or two...

Will let you know the lab results shortly.
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: PeakT on May 08, 2013, 07:23:12 pm
OK - Doc said the symptoms sounded like high E2, and I did aramatise on Testim, so that's a good bet. He had me take an Arimidex same day (yesterday) and one today. He also pulled blood work yesterday and will prescribe Arimidex 2 to 3 times a week based on the bloodwork.

I'm getting jazzed. If my E2 levels are high like last time (over 62 last time) that means I probably have some T juice flowing but I'm not enjoying the benefits of it due to E2. In theory, I could be feeling really, really good in a week or two...

Will let you know the lab results shortly.

62??  That's not fun.  Yes, you'll very likely feel MUCH better shortly. 

So you'll have T and E2 under control - nice.  Don't forget about NO.  Keep boosting that and you're gonna have a party...
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: jinNE on May 08, 2013, 08:27:27 pm
I just had my big honking veggie juice, so I am working on that too! :) I'd say I'm juicing about 5 days a week now...

Also, when I told me doctor about the excessive swelling and the pellet coming out, he said "those were HUGE pellets". So, a word to everyone, 200mg pellets are big. :)
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: PeakT on May 09, 2013, 01:43:14 am
I just had my big honking veggie juice, so I am working on that too! :) I'd say I'm juicing about 5 days a week now...

Also, when I told me doctor about the excessive swelling and the pellet coming out, he said "those were HUGE pellets". So, a word to everyone, 200mg pellets are big. :)

You were using another brand besides Testopel, right?
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: jinNE on May 09, 2013, 01:54:50 am
Great question - I will ask that when they call with my lab results.

Dang, surprised I didn't ask that before... ???
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: jinNE on May 14, 2013, 01:08:51 pm
Just got my lab work back.
 
Total T: 759
E2: 50
Free T: (didn't get, I was driving and didn't have my list in front of me)
 
I think this is the highest I've gotten total T, but still not over the 800 mark where I want to be. Taking Arimidex twice a week and going in at the end of June for a follow-up...
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: PeakT on May 14, 2013, 04:35:30 pm
Just got my lab work back.
 
Total T: 759
E2: 50
Free T: (didn't get, I was driving and didn't have my list in front of me)
 
I think this is the highest I've gotten total T, but still not over the 800 mark where I want to be. Taking Arimidex twice a week and going in at the end of June for a follow-up...

That's pretty high E2 as I'm sure you know.  Do you and your doc have a target?
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: jinNE on May 14, 2013, 06:35:32 pm
We're targeting getting my E2 back down to 20. I can already tell that I'm feeling better, and I'll be taking two Arimidex a week with a follow-up scheduled on June 27th.
I was really hoping to break 800 with the pellets. Next up will be Sub-Q, and if that doesn't do it I'll go IM.
Still, this is the highest I've had so far, so it is progress! :)
Update: Called and found my free T was 192. So, lots of progress and should feel pretty good as the E2 continues to come down. Will look at a separate thread on the Arimidex experience. I found out that the pellets my Dr. uses are compounded in Arizona, so they are not Testopel pellets.
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: PeakT on May 14, 2013, 07:36:59 pm
We're targeting getting my E2 back down to 20. I can already tell that I'm feeling better, and I'll be taking two Arimidex a week with a follow-up scheduled on June 27th.
I was really hoping to break 800 with the pellets. Next up will be Sub-Q, and if that doesn't do it I'll go IM.
Still, this is the highest I've had so far, so it is progress! :)
Update: Called and found my free T was 192. So, lots of progress and should feel pretty good as the E2 continues to come down. Will look at a separate thread on the Arimidex experience. I found out that the pellets my Dr. uses are compounded in Arizona, so they are not Testopel pellets.

Well, congrats on the progress.  And if you get a chance, I'd love to know whey he/she uses compounded pellets and the Testopel brand.
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: jinNE on June 02, 2013, 05:24:37 pm
Hi all!
 
Just got back from a 9 day trip in Australia and catching up. An update on the pellets: now that I have been on Arimidex, I have been feeling pretty good. I would like to see the libido higher, but mood and energy are OK. However, between the 24 hours of travel (each way), scuba diving, 8 hours a day standing at tradeshows, and carrying a heavy packpage - I managed to re-open the incision point. This should be all healed by now - and I heal well in general. I was glad I carried band aids with me because it was bleeding a bit.
 
Also, after a long day on my feet, it felt a little tender where the pellets are. This went away after some rest so I don't believe there is any infection - it's probably just the irritation to the muscle tissue. The pellets are definitely shrinking.
 
For me, the pellets don't seem to be worth it...
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: PeakT on June 02, 2013, 08:29:17 pm
Hi all!
 
Just got back from a 9 day trip in Australia and catching up. An update on the pellets: now that I have been on Arimidex, I have been feeling pretty good. I would like to see the libido higher, but mood and energy are OK. However, between the 24 hours of travel (each way), scuba diving, 8 hours a day standing at tradeshows, and carrying a heavy packpage - I managed to re-open the incision point. This should be all healed by now - and I heal well in general. I was glad I carried band aids with me because it was bleeding a bit.
 
Also, after a long day on my feet, it felt a little tender where the pellets are. This went away after some rest so I don't believe there is any infection - it's probably just the irritation to the muscle tissue. The pellets are definitely shrinking.
 
For me, the pellets don't seem to be worth it...

Wow.  You've definitely had a lot of problems.  But glad you'red doing better overall.

So how does your doc handle the falling T levels with pellets?  Will you keep taking Arimidex after a couple months for example?

And, btw, I'm jealous as heck of getting to head to Australia and hang out!
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: jinNE on June 03, 2013, 02:55:52 pm
When I went on Arimidex with Testim, I was able to get off it after my levels stabilized. I'm not sure on pellets - I have a follow-up for blood work at the end of this month. I won't do them again anyway - going to try sub-q and if that doesn't work then I will self-inject IM (yikes).
PS: Australia was awesome! I am glad that I am healthy and fit - I was able to enjoy the trip FAR more than if I had taken it a year ago. :)
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: PeakT on June 03, 2013, 03:41:07 pm
When I went on Arimidex with Testim, I was able to get off it after my levels stabilized. I'm not sure on pellets - I have a follow-up for blood work at the end of this month. I won't do them again anyway - going to try sub-q and if that doesn't work then I will self-inject IM (yikes).
PS: Australia was awesome! I am glad that I am healthy and fit - I was able to enjoy the trip FAR more than if I had taken it a year ago. :)

It's like being a kid again, eh?

So quick side question:  how high did Testim boost your T levels?
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: jinNE on June 04, 2013, 11:19:44 am
Hi Peak,
 
Not quite like being a kid, but WOW. I haven't felt this good in YEARS. My sleeping is all screwed up from the Australia trip, but with only three hours sleep yesterday I got up before 6am and did my full work out, and THEN after work I dug out a huge garden bed all by myself.
 
Finished the night with sex that ABSOLUTELY felt more like it did when I was younger. My whole body was alive, and the orgasm was incredibly strong. It just usually doesn't work that way anymore.
 
I'm a T believer! :) I now have to figure out how to get and keep these levels in a delivery mechanism I am comfortable with. I want to feel like this always.
 
Testim got me into the 600s, but actually diminished after a peak.
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: PeakT on June 04, 2013, 03:31:18 pm

Testim got me into the 600s, but actually diminished after a peak.

So how far did it fall down to?  I'm asking for a reason.
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: jinNE on June 05, 2013, 01:26:51 am
Looking at my records, I got as high as 721 with 194 free on Testim. This test was on 1/3/2013. My next blood work was done on 3/05/2013 and I was at 582 with 156 free. I absolutely felt the difference, and that's when I decided to try the pellets...
 
Incidently, in the January test, my E2 got 64.5. I got on Arimidex, and by the March test I was at 14.4.
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: Kwn on June 05, 2013, 01:51:45 am
14 Estrogen - is it too low?
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: PeakT on June 05, 2013, 03:25:52 am
Most docs (that care or know anything about it) seem to try to keep guys between 20 and 30.  The danger, potentially, is bone loss primarily:

But there are other potential issues:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Do_Men_Need_Estrogen
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: jinNE on June 05, 2013, 03:36:18 am
Yep, he pulled me off Arimidex. I did go back on it after 3 weeks on the pellets. While I didn't get blood work, I had all the signs of high E2. I have blood work at the end of this month. Of course, next up is SubQ-T, so it will take a few months and a few blood draws to stabilize numbers again. Some day, all the pieces will be in place. :)
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: PeakT on June 05, 2013, 06:27:14 am
Yep, he pulled me off Arimidex. I did go back on it after 3 weeks on the pellets. While I didn't get blood work, I had all the signs of high E2. I have blood work at the end of this month. Of course, next up is SubQ-T, so it will take a few months and a few blood draws to stabilize numbers again. Some day, all the pieces will be in place. :)

Yep, you're getting closer. 
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: jinNE on June 11, 2013, 01:44:07 pm
I am coming up on the two month mark and things aren't so good. I feel EXTREMELY grouchy, pissy irratable, and stressed. My libido is GONE.
I am wondering if I am on too much Arimidex and my E2 has crashed, or if the pellets have lost their oomph. My follow up usn't until the 27th, but I feel I should go in NOW.
grrrr.
Anyone know how long pellets typically last?
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: jinNE on June 11, 2013, 01:54:47 pm
Writing this convinced me to move up my date. I'm going in this afternoon to get some blood work done. I will be discussing injections today and created another post for that.
I have gotten a glipse of what good T feels like, I can't wait to settle down on a working protocol...
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: PeakT on June 11, 2013, 03:21:40 pm
I am coming up on the two month mark and things aren't so good. I feel EXTREMELY grouchy, pissy irratable, and stressed. My libido is GONE.
I am wondering if I am on too much Arimidex and my E2 has crashed, or if the pellets have lost their oomph. My follow up usn't until the 27th, but I feel I should go in NOW.
grrrr.
Anyone know how long pellets typically last?

Yeah, it can be kind of a balancing act.  High E2, low T or the combination can put the brakes on things.

Are you doing the test yourself?  Or is your physician going to run it?
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: jinNE on June 11, 2013, 05:06:32 pm
The Dr. does all the blood work for me (and knows what he's doing, fortunately). I realized after posting that I had some night sweats last night, which I havn't had in awhile.
I'm guessing he'll pull blood and give me a shot before sending me on my way. We'll see soon...
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: PeakT on June 11, 2013, 06:12:27 pm
The Dr. does all the blood work for me (and knows what he's doing, fortunately). I realized after posting that I had some night sweats last night, which I havn't had in awhile.
I'm guessing he'll pull blood and give me a shot before sending me on my way. We'll see soon...

And you're sure you're not turning hypoglycemic at night?
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: jinNE on June 11, 2013, 06:20:52 pm
I used to have this happen before I got my T levels up, and then it went away.
So, I'm not sure...
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: PeakT on June 11, 2013, 06:28:06 pm
I used to have this happen before I got my T levels up, and then it went away.
So, I'm not sure...

Interesting.  Of course, testosterone helps with blood sugar and insulin control, but I"m not sure that much...

Some guys say that low T gives them "hot flashes" kind of like post-menopausal women.  And I've heard the terrible sleep/night sweats thing as well.  My biggest symptoms were brain-related. 
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: jinNE on June 11, 2013, 10:30:21 pm
I hear you on the brain related issues. The last four or five days have been hell. VERY negative thoughts, very judgemental, very nervous/anxiety. At least now I know the symptoms...
Doctor looked at my "wound" and said "I don't think we want to do pellets again" and I said "I KNOW I don't." Still hasn't healed up 2 months later. I am now on T shots, but I'll leave this thread be and post on my other one.
Pellets were a "no-go" for me.
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: PeakT on June 12, 2013, 03:40:38 am
I hear you on the brain related issues. The last four or five days have been hell. VERY negative thoughts, very judgemental, very nervous/anxiety. At least now I know the symptoms...
Doctor looked at my "wound" and said "I don't think we want to do pellets again" and I said "I KNOW I don't." Still hasn't healed up 2 months later. I am now on T shots, but I'll leave this thread be and post on my other one.
Pellets were a "no-go" for me.

I had the exact same experience with pellets.  Very painful and took me out of commission for five days.  It was very disappointing as I was excited to get them...
Title: Re: Trying Pellets
Post by: PeakT on July 03, 2013, 04:01:17 pm
I moved this to a new thread as it was going more on the subject of injections:

https://www.peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=1726.0