Peak Testosterone Forum

General Category => Testosterone, Hormones and General Men's Health => Topic started by: factor5a on February 08, 2018, 12:40:36 am

Title: Does taking DHEA lowers Test levels??
Post by: factor5a on February 08, 2018, 12:40:36 am
Hey guys

Any experience taking DHEA? I started taking 25 mgs daily and after 4 days I took Test labs and my two anterior levels were just above one thousand and this one came at the 700s. I have not changed anything, but the adition of the DHEA. I find no other cause to that 30% reduction in my testosterone levels.

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Does taking DHEA lowers Test levels??
Post by: Cataceous on February 08, 2018, 02:06:56 am
Lab error is a possibility. If your TRT dose hasn't changed then it's not plausible that so much testosterone just disappeared.
Title: Re: Does taking DHEA lowers Test levels??
Post by: Dr. John Crisler on February 08, 2018, 02:24:22 am
Lab error is a possibility. If your TRT dose hasn't changed then it's not plausible that so much testosterone just disappeared.
Yes, and normal daily variability.
Title: Re: Does taking DHEA lowers Test levels??
Post by: factor5a on February 08, 2018, 02:20:54 pm
Lab error is a possibility. If your TRT dose hasn't changed then it's not plausible that so much testosterone just disappeared.
Yes, and normal daily variability.

Thanks guys.

Hey Dr,

So it can lower it as much as 30 percent?

I always have my lab work on Saturdays under the same conditions so a daily swing of that amount is not logical. I seriously doubt that it was a lab mistake.
Title: Re: Does taking DHEA lowers Test levels??
Post by: Cataceous on February 08, 2018, 03:06:25 pm
...
So it can lower it as much as 30 percent?
...

Personally I think that's too much change for natural variability. Aside from lab error, what about a change in your testosterone formulation? A different batch or supplier?

For comparison, I've had four testosterone tests over the last two years and they have all been in the relatively narrow range of 740-800 ng/dL, even with different batches and an ester change.
Title: Re: Does taking DHEA lowers Test levels??
Post by: factor5a on February 08, 2018, 03:29:56 pm
...
So it can lower it as much as 30 percent?
...

Personally I think that's too much change for natural variability. Aside from lab error, what about a change in your testosterone formulation? A different batch or supplier?

For comparison, I've had four testosterone tests over the last two years and they have all been in the relatively narrow range of 740-800 ng/dL, even with different batches and an ester change.

Noup

Everything the same , same brand as in the past half year and I'll try to check that batch. It is manufactured by Bayer, so quality is not a question here.
Title: Re: Does taking DHEA lowers Test levels??
Post by: Cataceous on February 08, 2018, 04:51:40 pm
Was free testosterone also measured?
Title: Re: Does taking DHEA lowers Test levels??
Post by: factor5a on February 08, 2018, 07:35:03 pm
Was free testosterone also measured?

Yep. also went down from 25 to 14. Strange, eh???

Let's see if somebody else jump in with a similar experience.

Now , after takin 25 mg of DHEA daily for more than one week before having my lab work,  and if this affects so much my test levels, I have two choices. One is to quit DHEA (I found I'm very low)or to keep with it and to increase my test dosage a 30 percent.

By the way, after taking those 10 days 25 mg of  DHEA, my lab work says I`m very low @ 1.95  ( range is .06 to 13.37)


Title: Re: Does taking DHEA lowers Test levels??
Post by: Cataceous on February 08, 2018, 08:30:48 pm
Was free testosterone also measured?

Yep. also went down from 25 to 14. Strange, eh???
...

The free T in your signature is calculated. If this new value is also calculated from SHBG and total T then total T could still be wrong. What are the units? What about estradiol? If it didn't also decline then that argues against the accuracy of the testosterone measurement.
Title: Re: Does taking DHEA lowers Test levels??
Post by: factor5a on February 08, 2018, 08:33:51 pm
Was free testosterone also measured?

Yep. also went down from 25 to 14. Strange, eh???
...

The free T in your signature is calculated. If this new value is also calculated from SHBG and total T then total T could still be wrong. What are the units? What about estradiol? If it didn't also decline then that argues against the accuracy of the testosterone measurement.

it is calculated from SHGB . I don' t remember the formula but SHGB is 40 and estradiol is 32.CAn you help me with the formula please?

Title: Re: Does taking DHEA lowers Test levels??
Post by: Cataceous on February 08, 2018, 08:49:17 pm
...
The free T in your signature is calculated. If this new value is also calculated from SHBG and total T then total T could still be wrong. What are the units? What about estradiol? If it didn't also decline then that argues against the accuracy of the testosterone measurement.

it is calculated from SHGB . I don' t remember the formula but SHGB is 40 and estradiol is 32.CAn you help me with the formula please?

You can calculate free testosterone using online sites such as this one: http://www.issam.ch/freetesto.htm
But if you're putting in a total testosterone value that is incorrectly low, then the resulting free testosterone will also be incorrectly low. "Garbage in, garbage out."
If your signature reflects previous results then estradiol went up this time, if anything. This would be another reason to be suspicious of the testosterone measurement.
Title: Re: Does taking DHEA lowers Test levels??
Post by: factor5a on February 08, 2018, 09:38:12 pm
...
The free T in your signature is calculated. If this new value is also calculated from SHBG and total T then total T could still be wrong. What are the units? What about estradiol? If it didn't also decline then that argues against the accuracy of the testosterone measurement.

it is calculated from SHGB . I don' t remember the formula but SHGB is 40 and estradiol is 32.CAn you help me with the formula please?

You can calculate free testosterone using online sites such as this one: http://www.issam.ch/freetesto.htm
But if you're putting in a total testosterone value that is incorrectly low, then the resulting free testosterone will also be incorrectly low. "Garbage in, garbage out."
If your signature reflects previous results then estradiol went up this time, if anything. This would be another reason to be suspicious of the testosterone measurement.

Cat,

Those number in my signature are very old ones.

thanks for the link, I'll do my calculation to see if the lab is wrong. I doubt it, because is a very prestigious one.

Have you taken DHEA, by the way?

Title: Re: Does taking DHEA lowers Test levels??
Post by: Cataceous on February 08, 2018, 11:00:19 pm
...
Have you taken DHEA, by the way?

Yes, I've been taking 12.5 mg a day for some years now.
Title: Re: Does taking DHEA lowers Test levels??
Post by: factor5a on February 09, 2018, 12:31:05 am
...
Have you taken DHEA, by the way?

Yes, I've been taking 12.5 mg a day for some years now.


I see. Do you know if it has helped you in increasing you DHEA levels? I mean objectilvly by lab works? I am asking because
 after having 25 mgs daily during 10 days, my lab work reported a very low level as I said in a  prior reply. (1.95    .06-13.37)so it means I was very very low before starting with the 25 mgs , and ,do you know if  it decreased in some way your test levels?  By the way, I did the calculation with the Total Test level they give me and it is correct, of course, with the level of 700s they got. I'll make them repeat it but I doubt they are wrong.
Title: Re: Does taking DHEA lowers Test levels??
Post by: Cataceous on February 09, 2018, 01:11:39 am
...
Have you taken DHEA, by the way?
Yes, I've been taking 12.5 mg a day for some years now.

I see. Do you know if it has helped you in increasing you DHEA levels? I mean objectilvly by lab works? I am asking because
 after having 25 mgs daily during 10 days, my lab work reported a very low level as I said in a  prior reply. (1.95    .06-13.37)so it means I was very very low before starting with the 25 mgs , and ,do you know if  it decreased in some way your test levels?  By the way, I did the calculation with the Total Test level they give me and it is correct, of course, with the level of 700s they got. I'll make them repeat it but I doubt they are wrong.

Before supplementing with DHEA my level was measured as 100 ug/dL. Several measurements since have been in the range of 280-300 ug/dL. Supplementation was very effective. I do not believe it has had a perceptible effect on testosterone, and I don't see a plausible mechanism for it to do much to testosterone when we're on TRT. Look at a steroidogenesis diagram (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Steroidogenesis.svg). You would know if DHT increased by 300 ng/dL, and you'd especially know it if estradiol went up by 3,000 pg/mL! If you're injecting a consistent amount of testosterone then it's got to be somewhere.
Title: Re: Does taking DHEA lowers Test levels??
Post by: factor5a on February 09, 2018, 01:22:34 am
...
Have you taken DHEA, by the way?
Yes, I've been taking 12.5 mg a day for some years now.

I see. Do you know if it has helped you in increasing you DHEA levels? I mean objectilvly by lab works? I am asking because
 after having 25 mgs daily during 10 days, my lab work reported a very low level as I said in a  prior reply. (1.95    .06-13.37)so it means I was very very low before starting with the 25 mgs , and ,do you know if  it decreased in some way your test levels?  By the way, I did the calculation with the Total Test level they give me and it is correct, of course, with the level of 700s they got. I'll make them repeat it but I doubt they are wrong.

Before supplementing with DHEA my level was measured as 100 ug/dL. Several measurements since have been in the range of 280-300 ug/dL. Supplementation was very effective. I do not believe it has had a perceptible effect on testosterone, and I don't see a plausible mechanism for it to do much to testosterone when we're on TRT. Look at a steroidogenesis diagram (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Steroidogenesis.svg). You would know if DHT increased by 300 ng/dL, and you'd especially know it if estradiol went up by 3,000 pg/mL! If you're injecting a consistent amount of testosterone then it's got to be somewhere.


Mmmm, this is very confusing for me, since I didn't change anything but the DHEA. I'll make them repeat the lab work. I hope any Dr jumps in and give and opinion on wether DHEA has something to do with this.