Peak Testosterone Forum

General Category => Testosterone, Hormones and General Men's Health => Topic started by: nissan1414 on March 24, 2019, 08:28:21 pm

Title: Would you go on TRT? if...
Post by: nissan1414 on March 24, 2019, 08:28:21 pm
I'll try to summarize my story in a few points:

- Started having ED/libido issues about a decade ago, was put on Cialis
- Started trying nofap and stuff like that. Noticed over the years, after a month of abstaining, instead of my balls getting huge and painful and me getting super horny, my balls would stay about the same and I'd just forget about sex. I made it about 50-60 days like this once.
- Found out last year I have a pituitary tumor, T was in the high 500s range
- Got treated for high prolactin levels, after 3 attempts, I found myself feeling worse everytime. Sexual issues worsened
- Found out I actually don't have high prolactin, and that DAs have no benefit to me in terms of fixing issues
- Started developing really bad depression about a year ago. T was coming up in the 400s
- Endo let me try Clomid. Felt great for about a week. Maybe it was placebo, who knows. Then got super emotional. Stopped taking it.
- Turned my life around health wise - more time at the gym, nearly perfect diet, backed off on the drinking and stuff, actively trying to improve my sleep quality naturally
- T now coming up in the low-mid 500s within 2 hours of waking up
- Depression has been resolved, but sexual issues linger. It's not like I can't have sex, but I'm just not comfortable with where I'm at versus how I used to feel, and how others my age do (I'm 34)
- Motivation and interest in life still comes in waves, anxiety and sleep issues still present (no OSA), and hitting a plateau at the gym. Roughly 11% bodyfat, so not much to lose there. Can't shake belly fat though. Wish I had consistent motivation to work out and other stuff.
- Here's the big one: I had the opportunity to go on TRT after being prescribed it, but frankly, haven't had the balls to stay on it. But in a sort of fit of desperation about 2 months ago, I pinned myself with 100mg T cyp. For the next week or so...I don't remember being that horny since I was in college, and it was amazing. No more 4 day wait time before I REALLY want to have sex again. I seemed better able to walk away from angry situations and less emotionally volatile. I didn't expect anything to happen either.

Part of me thinks this is like when any average person takes Adderall and says "wow I feel great and got so much done!" - it doesn't mean you have ADHD or need to be treated for it, it just means you're on amphetamines and that's what they do. In other words, I don't want to sign up for something like this for life based on unrealistic expectations from my body. Or does it mean I might have a legitimately better life awaiting me on TRT?

I have read of guys starting in the 500s and enjoying a huge improvement, but I know it's less common. I could still improve my sleep more, and stop going out on weekends, but after that, I think I'm out of lifestyle improvement options. I wish I could've at least hit 600 after all of this!

Should also add - my E2 is typically at 20. I've seen it go as high as 47 and I felt fine though.
Title: Re: Would you go on TRT? if...
Post by: HRD LVN on March 24, 2019, 08:56:37 pm
I'll try to summarize my story in a few points:

- Started having ED/libido issues about a decade ago, was put on Cialis
- Started trying nofap and stuff like that. Noticed over the years, after a month of abstaining, instead of my balls getting huge and painful and me getting super horny, my balls would stay about the same and I'd just forget about sex. I made it about 50-60 days like this once.
- Found out last year I have a pituitary tumor, T was in the high 500s range
- Got treated for high prolactin levels, after 3 attempts, I found myself feeling worse everytime. Sexual issues worsened
- Found out I actually don't have high prolactin, and that DAs have no benefit to me in terms of fixing issues
- Started developing really bad depression about a year ago. T was coming up in the 400s
- Endo let me try Clomid. Felt great for about a week. Maybe it was placebo, who knows. Then got super emotional. Stopped taking it.
- Turned my life around health wise - more time at the gym, nearly perfect diet, backed off on the drinking and stuff, actively trying to improve my sleep quality naturally
- T now coming up in the low-mid 500s within 2 hours of waking up
- Depression has been resolved, but sexual issues linger. It's not like I can't have sex, but I'm just not comfortable with where I'm at versus how I used to feel, and how others my age do (I'm 34)
- Motivation and interest in life still comes in waves, anxiety and sleep issues still present (no OSA), and hitting a plateau at the gym. Roughly 11% bodyfat, so not much to lose there. Can't shake belly fat though. Wish I had consistent motivation to work out and other stuff.
- Here's the big one: I had the opportunity to go on TRT after being prescribed it, but frankly, haven't had the balls to stay on it. But in a sort of fit of desperation about 2 months ago, I pinned myself with 100mg T cyp. For the next week or so...I don't remember being that horny since I was in college, and it was amazing. No more 4 day wait time before I REALLY want to have sex again. I seemed better able to walk away from angry situations and less emotionally volatile. I didn't expect anything to happen either.

Part of me thinks this is like when any average person takes Adderall and says "wow I feel great and got so much done!" - it doesn't mean you have ADHD or need to be treated for it, it just means you're on amphetamines and that's what they do. In other words, I don't want to sign up for something like this for life based on unrealistic expectations from my body. Or does it mean I might have a legitimately better life awaiting me on TRT?

I have read of guys starting in the 500s and enjoying a huge improvement, but I know it's less common. I could still improve my sleep more, and stop going out on weekends, but after that, I think I'm out of lifestyle improvement options. I wish I could've at least hit 600 after all of this!

Should also add - my E2 is typically at 20. I've seen it go as high as 47 and I felt fine though.

Hi nissan shit you have been thru hell. I would not mess around I would call Defy ((813) 445-7342)  and get a mens health blood test. Then see what they have to say. There are several options to try before just jumping to needles.
A blood test read by TRT professionals is the only way to know and I am pretty sure they can help you out. I've been a patient with them for 3 years. They turned my life around.
Title: Re: Would you go on TRT? if...
Post by: Cataceous on March 25, 2019, 02:29:57 am
What is your SHBG? That is a key parameter in determining whether your testosterone level is low. What about thyroid numbers? Vitamin D status? DHT?
https://www.peaktestosterone.com/Testosterone_Tests.aspx
Title: Re: Would you go on TRT? if...
Post by: Flyingfool on March 25, 2019, 08:09:27 am
Lots of things yet to consider.

However.

Low 500ís for mid-30ís seems low to me. But there is as yet no labs that show your free t levels. As cat pointed out SHBG is really needed.

The effect of clomid seems potentially promising. The POSSIBLE reason you got emotional as a response was that some of the testosterone produced converted to Estradiol and thus the emotional aspect.

Also the one time you did take Testosterone you seemed to respond positively.

Those two things at least point to the fact that low T and getting properly balanced could help.

Your low body fat would tend to produce less Estradiol. But when taking T or clomid which produced T may cause your Estradiol levels to shoot up. Again  SHBG can shed some light on this.

Probably not an issue here but it may also be beneficial to get thyroid labs done. TSH, Free T4 and free T3 as a minimum.
Title: Re: Would you go on TRT? if...
Post by: nissan1414 on March 25, 2019, 09:22:45 am
What is your SHBG? That is a key parameter in determining whether your testosterone level is low. What about thyroid numbers? Vitamin D status? DHT?
https://www.peaktestosterone.com/Testosterone_Tests.aspx

My dr hasn't tested it every time, but the several times he has, it sits around 40.

For a short period last year, it went down to 32-33. Unsure why. I was taking a multivitamin and cialis more regularly back then, that's about all I can think of.
Title: Re: Would you go on TRT? if...
Post by: nissan1414 on March 25, 2019, 09:27:47 am
Lots of things yet to consider.

However.

Low 500ís for mid-30ís seems low to me. But there is as yet no labs that show your free t levels. As cat pointed out SHBG is really needed.

The effect of clomid seems potentially promising. The POSSIBLE reason you got emotional as a response was that some of the testosterone produced converted to Estradiol and thus the emotional aspect.

Also the one time you did take Testosterone you seemed to respond positively.

Those two things at least point to the fact that low T and getting properly balanced could help.

Your low body fat would tend to produce less Estradiol. But when taking T or clomid which produced T may cause your Estradiol levels to shoot up. Again  SHBG can shed some light on this.

Probably not an issue here but it may also be beneficial to get thyroid labs done. TSH, Free T4 and free T3 as a minimum.

Thanks for your input....SHBG is typically around 40, but for a period last year, it dropped to around 32-33.

I've had my thyroid tested repeatedly for years to try to find the cause of fatigue, and it always turns back ok. Most recently:

TSH 1.36 mIU/L   0.40 - 4.50 mIU/L
T3 FREE 3.2 pg/mL   2.3 - 4.2 pg/mL
T4 FREE 1.3 ng/dL   0.8 - 1.8 ng/dL

Part of me also keeps wondering if my sleep issues are causing this, or the other way around. I've been through sleep studies, sleep doctors, you name it, and the consensus is that I'm just a light sleeper, and that I would benefit from keeping a perfectly consistent sleep schedule (i.e. not staying out late on a Friday). But magically, every one of my friends is able to tolerate that all just fine. So who knows.
Title: Re: Would you go on TRT? if...
Post by: Cataceous on March 25, 2019, 09:57:16 am
What is your SHBG? That is a key parameter in determining whether your testosterone level is low. What about thyroid numbers? Vitamin D status? DHT?
https://www.peaktestosterone.com/Testosterone_Tests.aspx

My dr hasn't tested it every time, but the several times he has, it sits around 40.

For a short period last year, it went down to 32-33. Unsure why. I was taking a multivitamin and cialis more regularly back then, that's about all I can think of.

As an example, total testosterone of 500 ng/dL and SHBG of 40 nmol/L yield a calculated free testosterone of about 9 ng/dL. This is low enough to cause problems for some guys, so it could be contributing to your symptoms.
Title: Re: Would you go on TRT? if...
Post by: nissan1414 on March 25, 2019, 10:40:15 am
What is your SHBG? That is a key parameter in determining whether your testosterone level is low. What about thyroid numbers? Vitamin D status? DHT?
https://www.peaktestosterone.com/Testosterone_Tests.aspx

My dr hasn't tested it every time, but the several times he has, it sits around 40.

For a short period last year, it went down to 32-33. Unsure why. I was taking a multivitamin and cialis more regularly back then, that's about all I can think of.

As an example, total testosterone of 500 ng/dL and SHBG of 40 nmol/L yield a calculated free testosterone of about 9 ng/dL. This is low enough to cause problems for some guys, so it could be contributing to your symptoms.

Thanks - the last high 500s test I had was in the fall. TT 580, SHBG of 40, and FT of 101. A few weeks ago, I hit 539 and 101.9 (SHBG wasn't tested).

Where do guys usually start having issues with low FT?

How risky to my HPTA would it be to try pinning again?

Wish I knew what got my SHBG down last year.
Title: Re: Would you go on TRT? if...
Post by: Flyingfool on March 25, 2019, 10:53:43 am
Lots of things yet to consider.

However.

Low 500ís for mid-30ís seems low to me. But there is as yet no labs that show your free t levels. As cat pointed out SHBG is really needed.

The effect of clomid seems potentially promising. The POSSIBLE reason you got emotional as a response was that some of the testosterone produced converted to Estradiol and thus the emotional aspect.

Also the one time you did take Testosterone you seemed to respond positively.

Those two things at least point to the fact that low T and getting properly balanced could help.

Your low body fat would tend to produce less Estradiol. But when taking T or clomid which produced T may cause your Estradiol levels to shoot up. Again  SHBG can shed some light on this.

Probably not an issue here but it may also be beneficial to get thyroid labs done. TSH, Free T4 and free T3 as a minimum.

Thanks for your input....SHBG is typically around 40, but for a period last year, it dropped to around 32-33.

I've had my thyroid tested repeatedly for years to try to find the cause of fatigue, and it always turns back ok. Most recently:

TSH 1.36 mIU/L   0.40 - 4.50 mIU/L
T3 FREE 3.2 pg/mL   2.3 - 4.2 pg/mL
T4 FREE 1.3 ng/dL   0.8 - 1.8 ng/dL

Part of me also keeps wondering if my sleep issues are causing this, or the other way around. I've been through sleep studies, sleep doctors, you name it, and the consensus is that I'm just a light sleeper, and that I would benefit from keeping a perfectly consistent sleep schedule (i.e. not staying out late on a Friday). But magically, every one of my friends is able to tolerate that all just fine. So who knows.

Thyroid levels look OK for someone not on any thyroid meds. Free T3 could be up a little but it is 47% of rhe range and the ruke of thumb for someone already on thyroid meds is about 50% to 66%. But like I said for not being on meds your levels are fine in my opinion.

Have you had your cortisol levels checked?  Specifically waking response. Recently my daughter had this done (saliva test via a swab). In her case she had a negative waking response. The normal reaponse is that cortisol will increase by about 50% 30 minutes after waking level. In her case her levels DECREASED!  She just repeated the morning test  (yesterday) to see if this was an random response or is repeated to confirm.  Still awaiting the results which should come in today or next few days.

Low cortisol can cause you to be lethargic and not able to deal with stress well.

But I think it is more likely low T. I would expect total T for mid 30ís man to be 650 if not higher. Low T symptoms seem to start for some men around 10. And you are hovering at or below that level.
Title: Re: Would you go on TRT? if...
Post by: nissan1414 on March 25, 2019, 11:19:33 am
Lots of things yet to consider.

However.

Low 500ís for mid-30ís seems low to me. But there is as yet no labs that show your free t levels. As cat pointed out SHBG is really needed.

The effect of clomid seems potentially promising. The POSSIBLE reason you got emotional as a response was that some of the testosterone produced converted to Estradiol and thus the emotional aspect.

Also the one time you did take Testosterone you seemed to respond positively.

Those two things at least point to the fact that low T and getting properly balanced could help.

Your low body fat would tend to produce less Estradiol. But when taking T or clomid which produced T may cause your Estradiol levels to shoot up. Again  SHBG can shed some light on this.

Probably not an issue here but it may also be beneficial to get thyroid labs done. TSH, Free T4 and free T3 as a minimum.

Thanks for your input....SHBG is typically around 40, but for a period last year, it dropped to around 32-33.

I've had my thyroid tested repeatedly for years to try to find the cause of fatigue, and it always turns back ok. Most recently:

TSH 1.36 mIU/L   0.40 - 4.50 mIU/L
T3 FREE 3.2 pg/mL   2.3 - 4.2 pg/mL
T4 FREE 1.3 ng/dL   0.8 - 1.8 ng/dL

Part of me also keeps wondering if my sleep issues are causing this, or the other way around. I've been through sleep studies, sleep doctors, you name it, and the consensus is that I'm just a light sleeper, and that I would benefit from keeping a perfectly consistent sleep schedule (i.e. not staying out late on a Friday). But magically, every one of my friends is able to tolerate that all just fine. So who knows.

Thyroid levels look OK for someone not on any thyroid meds. Free T3 could be up a little but it is 47% of rhe range and the ruke of thumb for someone already on thyroid meds is about 50% to 66%. But like I said for not being on meds your levels are fine in my opinion.

Have you had your cortisol levels checked?  Specifically waking response. Recently my daughter had this done (saliva test via a swab). In her case she had a negative waking response. The normal reaponse is that cortisol will increase by about 50% 30 minutes after waking level. In her case her levels DECREASED!  She just repeated the morning test  (yesterday) to see if this was an random response or is repeated to confirm.  Still awaiting the results which should come in today or next few days.

Low cortisol can cause you to be lethargic and not able to deal with stress well.

But I think it is more likely low T. I would expect total T for mid 30ís man to be 650 if not higher. Low T symptoms seem to start for some men around 10. And you are hovering at or below that level.

Thanks for your input - I have had cortisol and ACTH checked twice, last year. One time was lower (but I think done a little later after waking), but in range. The more recent test was fine. I had another endo look over the results, and she was totally comfortable with it. I really thought I'd found something there - but I figure if 3 doctors say it looks fine...

I'd like to believe it's fine as well, as I've always had issues with jolting awake early, overly excited for the day, and unable to sleep any longer.

I definitely felt like garbage last year while in the 400s. Cleaning up on the diet, partying, and keeping to my gym routine helped get me into the 500s again.

Years ago when I first had my T tested, I was working late at a bar 3 nights a week, eating take out, not exercising, etc. And I still hit 590 no problem.
Title: Re: Would you go on TRT? if...
Post by: Cataceous on March 25, 2019, 08:16:06 pm
What is your SHBG? That is a key parameter in determining whether your testosterone level is low. What about thyroid numbers? Vitamin D status? DHT?
https://www.peaktestosterone.com/Testosterone_Tests.aspx

My dr hasn't tested it every time, but the several times he has, it sits around 40.

For a short period last year, it went down to 32-33. Unsure why. I was taking a multivitamin and cialis more regularly back then, that's about all I can think of.

As an example, total testosterone of 500 ng/dL and SHBG of 40 nmol/L yield a calculated free testosterone of about 9 ng/dL. This is low enough to cause problems for some guys, so it could be contributing to your symptoms.

Thanks - the last high 500s test I had was in the fall. TT 580, SHBG of 40, and FT of 101. A few weeks ago, I hit 539 and 101.9 (SHBG wasn't tested).

Where do guys usually start having issues with low FT?

How risky to my HPTA would it be to try pinning again?

Wish I knew what got my SHBG down last year.

Depending on the test type, measured free T may or may not have much value. If your results are from equilibrium dialysis then they do possibly make sense and are consistent with calculated values. These are all around 10 ng/dL, which I tend to view as a threshold. We rarely see guys with higher numbers complaining of low-T-type symptoms. But as free T goes down from there the problems increase.

There's very little risk to your HPTA from short-term TRT. You may or may not get some suppression, but recovery should be relatively fast. Even with longer-term TRT the risk is modest. The main issue is the longer recovery time.
Title: Re: Would you go on TRT? if...
Post by: ghce on March 26, 2019, 12:42:43 am
Lots of things yet to consider.

However.

Low 500ís for mid-30ís seems low to me. But there is as yet no labs that show your free t levels. As cat pointed out SHBG is really needed.

The effect of clomid seems potentially promising. The POSSIBLE reason you got emotional as a response was that some of the testosterone produced converted to Estradiol and thus the emotional aspect.

Also the one time you did take Testosterone you seemed to respond positively.

Those two things at least point to the fact that low T and getting properly balanced could help.

Your low body fat would tend to produce less Estradiol. But when taking T or clomid which produced T may cause your Estradiol levels to shoot up. Again  SHBG can shed some light on this.

Probably not an issue here but it may also be beneficial to get thyroid labs done. TSH, Free T4 and free T3 as a minimum.

Thanks for your input....SHBG is typically around 40, but for a period last year, it dropped to around 32-33.

I've had my thyroid tested repeatedly for years to try to find the cause of fatigue, and it always turns back ok. Most recently:

TSH 1.36 mIU/L   0.40 - 4.50 mIU/L
T3 FREE 3.2 pg/mL   2.3 - 4.2 pg/mL
T4 FREE 1.3 ng/dL   0.8 - 1.8 ng/dL

Part of me also keeps wondering if my sleep issues are causing this, or the other way around. I've been through sleep studies, sleep doctors, you name it, and the consensus is that I'm just a light sleeper, and that I would benefit from keeping a perfectly consistent sleep schedule (i.e. not staying out late on a Friday). But magically, every one of my friends is able to tolerate that all just fine. So who knows.

Thyroid levels look OK for someone not on any thyroid meds. Free T3 could be up a little but it is 47% of rhe range and the ruke of thumb for someone already on thyroid meds is about 50% to 66%. But like I said for not being on meds your levels are fine in my opinion.

Have you had your cortisol levels checked?  Specifically waking response. Recently my daughter had this done (saliva test via a swab). In her case she had a negative waking response. The normal reaponse is that cortisol will increase by about 50% 30 minutes after waking level. In her case her levels DECREASED!  She just repeated the morning test  (yesterday) to see if this was an random response or is repeated to confirm.  Still awaiting the results which should come in today or next few days.

Low cortisol can cause you to be lethargic and not able to deal with stress well.

But I think it is more likely low T. I would expect total T for mid 30ís man to be 650 if not higher. Low T symptoms seem to start for some men around 10. And you are hovering at or below that level.

Thanks for your input - I have had cortisol and ACTH checked twice, last year. One time was lower (but I think done a little later after waking), but in range. The more recent test was fine. I had another endo look over the results, and she was totally comfortable with it. I really thought I'd found something there - but I figure if 3 doctors say it looks fine...

I'd like to believe it's fine as well, as I've always had issues with jolting awake early, overly excited for the day, and unable to sleep any longer.

I definitely felt like garbage last year while in the 400s. Cleaning up on the diet, partying, and keeping to my gym routine helped get me into the 500s again.

Years ago when I first had my T tested, I was working late at a bar 3 nights a week, eating take out, not exercising, etc. And I still hit 590 no problem.

Its best NOT to believe the "in range " statement from your  (or any GP) or even the range levels that the lab recommends, range tends to mean things other than healthy and your age or symptoms.
When posting here on this forum it always pays to put your level in and also the labs quoted range.

To be sure a T level of 500 to 550 is quite low for someone of your age. If you do decide to take the plunge and go on TRT you would be better aiming much higher, 750 or more.

In my case I only started getting the sexual benefits when I topped 1200.
Title: Re: Would you go on TRT? if...
Post by: Bravo5 on March 26, 2019, 06:11:03 am
Are you drinking coffee/tea or taking any other stimulants? If so, I would eliminate those and see if that makes a difference to your sleep and ultimately wellbeing.
Title: Re: Would you go on TRT? if...
Post by: nissan1414 on March 26, 2019, 08:59:43 am
What is your SHBG? That is a key parameter in determining whether your testosterone level is low. What about thyroid numbers? Vitamin D status? DHT?
https://www.peaktestosterone.com/Testosterone_Tests.aspx

My dr hasn't tested it every time, but the several times he has, it sits around 40.

For a short period last year, it went down to 32-33. Unsure why. I was taking a multivitamin and cialis more regularly back then, that's about all I can think of.

As an example, total testosterone of 500 ng/dL and SHBG of 40 nmol/L yield a calculated free testosterone of about 9 ng/dL. This is low enough to cause problems for some guys, so it could be contributing to your symptoms.

Thanks - the last high 500s test I had was in the fall. TT 580, SHBG of 40, and FT of 101. A few weeks ago, I hit 539 and 101.9 (SHBG wasn't tested).

Where do guys usually start having issues with low FT?

How risky to my HPTA would it be to try pinning again?

Wish I knew what got my SHBG down last year.

Depending on the test type, measured free T may or may not have much value. If your results are from equilibrium dialysis then they do possibly make sense and are consistent with calculated values. These are all around 10 ng/dL, which I tend to view as a threshold. We rarely see guys with higher numbers complaining of low-T-type symptoms. But as free T goes down from there the problems increase.

There's very little risk to your HPTA from short-term TRT. You may or may not get some suppression, but recovery should be relatively fast. Even with longer-term TRT the risk is modest. The main issue is the longer recovery time.

Makes sense...as my FT was under 10 in the past, I was having a lot of issues.
Title: Re: Would you go on TRT? if...
Post by: nissan1414 on March 26, 2019, 09:01:12 am
Are you drinking coffee/tea or taking any other stimulants? If so, I would eliminate those and see if that makes a difference to your sleep and ultimately wellbeing.

Nope, very rarely. Recently cut out nicotine though, so hoping that will help too.
Title: Re: Would you go on TRT? if...
Post by: OptimumT on March 26, 2019, 09:32:02 pm
I definitely felt like garbage last year while in the 400s. Cleaning up on the diet, partying, and keeping to my gym routine helped get me into the 500s again.

This is the first time that I've heard partying helps. Tell us more.

I'm kidding. I hope you can feel better at some point. Interesting discussion.
Title: Re: Would you go on TRT? if...
Post by: HRD LVN on March 26, 2019, 10:54:56 pm
Are you drinking coffee/tea or taking any other stimulants? If so, I would eliminate those and see if that makes a difference to your sleep and ultimately wellbeing.

Nope, very rarely. Recently cut out nicotine though, so hoping that will help too.
Depending on how long you smoked or chewed getting over nicotine can really reak havock with your overall mood. I got on TRT to find relief from my depression and anxiety and I believe the root or trigger for my depression was nicotine withdrawal.
Title: Re: Would you go on TRT? if...
Post by: nissan1414 on March 27, 2019, 09:09:12 am
I definitely felt like garbage last year while in the 400s. Cleaning up on the diet, partying, and keeping to my gym routine helped get me into the 500s again.

This is the first time that I've heard partying helps. Tell us more.

I'm kidding. I hope you can feel better at some point. Interesting discussion.

Haha, yea yea
Title: Re: Would you go on TRT? if...
Post by: nissan1414 on March 27, 2019, 09:11:01 am
Are you drinking coffee/tea or taking any other stimulants? If so, I would eliminate those and see if that makes a difference to your sleep and ultimately wellbeing.

Nope, very rarely. Recently cut out nicotine though, so hoping that will help too.
Depending on how long you smoked or chewed getting over nicotine can really reak havock with your overall mood. I got on TRT to find relief from my depression and anxiety and I believe the root or trigger for my depression was nicotine withdrawal.

Not long...off and on for about a year. The last few times I relapsed into it, I went through enough to mildly withdraw again. But it's been a year since I went through an actually difficult withdrawal.

How were your levels before TRT?
Title: Re: Would you go on TRT? if...
Post by: HRD LVN on March 27, 2019, 09:13:29 am


How were your levels before TRT?

TT 173
Title: Re: Would you go on TRT? if...
Post by: charliebizz on March 27, 2019, 03:46:35 pm
Nobody on a forum can tell you what will work. Only way is to try it yourself. I also do not believe 550 is low for your age. It may be low for you. And may be great for someone else your age. I for one fluctuate between 290-390. Iíve tried trt a few times. Was a patient of dr crislers and we tried every single trt trick around and i never felt better on it then off. I felt slight improvement in energy but it made many other things worse. Like sleep and mental side effects. Even with low t issues I still had fun and was motivated. On trt I really start to lose motivation and my emotions are up and down. And no rhyme or reason to how I feel day by day. Over at excel make a bunch of guys share same story. That said many guys have gotten their life back on trt. If you feel youíre not yourself try it out. I have always returned to baseline even quitting trt cold turkey. And for me getting off isnít that hard.

Hope that didnít come across as me bashing trt. Just for me personally itís too complicated. And our body is so complex imo fixing one hormone that throws other out of wack is far from optimal.
Title: Re: Would you go on TRT? if...
Post by: Redrak on March 27, 2019, 09:47:17 pm
may i ask, what did you change diet wise? im planning on changing a few things
Title: Re: Would you go on TRT? if...
Post by: Redrak on March 27, 2019, 09:49:11 pm
Lots of things yet to consider.

However.

Low 500ís for mid-30ís seems low to me. But there is as yet no labs that show your free t levels. As cat pointed out SHBG is really needed.

The effect of clomid seems potentially promising. The POSSIBLE reason you got emotional as a response was that some of the testosterone produced converted to Estradiol and thus the emotional aspect.

Also the one time you did take Testosterone you seemed to respond positively.

Those two things at least point to the fact that low T and getting properly balanced could help.

Your low body fat would tend to produce less Estradiol. But when taking T or clomid which produced T may cause your Estradiol levels to shoot up. Again  SHBG can shed some light on this.

Probably not an issue here but it may also be beneficial to get thyroid labs done. TSH, Free T4 and free T3 as a minimum.
wait... so if im low bodyfat for long period of time my e2 crashes and tests drops? would it be beneficial to gain weight and get a bit fat to increase 2 and test?
Title: Re: Would you go on TRT? if...
Post by: Flyingfool on March 28, 2019, 10:43:17 am
I am no expert.

But I think the pituitary senses Estradiol as the marker for production of testosterone. As the estrogen comes From at least in part, from the conversion of testosterone. So if low Estrogen, the pituitary thinks the body is low testosterone and try to lroduce more T.

Higher body fat would have a bit higher conversion to Estradiol. So the pituitary would probably think there may be enough T. So not sure that adding weight will have the feedback loop youíre looking for.

Obese people with high body fat have higher estrogen and thus restricts testosterone production. And losing weight helps those folks for sure.

11% body fat to me might indicate either heavy if not ďover trainingĒ or maybe not sufficient eating. Body thinks and reacts as if it is in ďfamineĒ mode and clamps down on things including messes with hormone levels.

Overtraining can cause a problem with thyroid where there is sufficient levels in the blood but it is not able to enter into the cells. So you could have low thyroid symptoms while blood tests show plenty of thyroid.   Not sure if testosterone has any similar response.
Title: Re: Would you go on TRT? if...
Post by: nissan1414 on March 29, 2019, 10:56:45 am
I am no expert.

But I think the pituitary senses Estradiol as the marker for production of testosterone. As the estrogen comes From at least in part, from the conversion of testosterone. So if low Estrogen, the pituitary thinks the body is low testosterone and try to lroduce more T.

Higher body fat would have a bit higher conversion to Estradiol. So the pituitary would probably think there may be enough T. So not sure that adding weight will have the feedback loop youíre looking for.

Obese people with high body fat have higher estrogen and thus restricts testosterone production. And losing weight helps those folks for sure.

11% body fat to me might indicate either heavy if not ďover trainingĒ or maybe not sufficient eating. Body thinks and reacts as if it is in ďfamineĒ mode and clamps down on things including messes with hormone levels.

Overtraining can cause a problem with thyroid where there is sufficient levels in the blood but it is not able to enter into the cells. So you could have low thyroid symptoms while blood tests show plenty of thyroid.   Not sure if testosterone has any similar response.

I've considered the possibility of overtraining as well, but everything I've read, and every where else I've asked says it's impossible.

I have been trying to workout earlier in the day as opposed to a couple of hours before bed too.

I've always been on the lighter side, and keeping weight on has been a lifelong challenge for me.

Can overtraining result from not sleeping enough? Sleep is just an endless battle for me it seems.

Starting to think my body might not be tolerating staying out past my bedtime on weekends anymore. Oddly, just 2 years ago, I was working at a nightclub 3 nights a week and doing just fine. T levels were slightly higher too. I was not lifting then.
Title: Re: Would you go on TRT? if...
Post by: ghce on March 29, 2019, 05:36:01 pm


I've considered the possibility of overtraining as well, but everything I've read, and every where else I've asked says it's impossible.



Reading on this forum you will find a very different answer with a lot of post advising that over training is an issue that directly effect T production negatively.
Title: Re: Would you go on TRT? if...
Post by: nissan1414 on March 29, 2019, 07:54:01 pm


I've considered the possibility of overtraining as well, but everything I've read, and every where else I've asked says it's impossible.



Reading on this forum you will find a very different answer with a lot of post advising that over training is an issue that directly effect T production negatively.

I personally believe it's very possible.

The question is, when all I do is hit the gym 4x a week for an hour or less, what else can I do to prevent it?
Title: Re: Would you go on TRT? if...
Post by: Redrak on March 29, 2019, 08:20:05 pm
I am no expert.

But I think the pituitary senses Estradiol as the marker for production of testosterone. As the estrogen comes From at least in part, from the conversion of testosterone. So if low Estrogen, the pituitary thinks the body is low testosterone and try to lroduce more T.

Higher body fat would have a bit higher conversion to Estradiol. So the pituitary would probably think there may be enough T. So not sure that adding weight will have the feedback loop youíre looking for.

Obese people with high body fat have higher estrogen and thus restricts testosterone production. And losing weight helps those folks for sure.

11% body fat to me might indicate either heavy if not ďover trainingĒ or maybe not sufficient eating. Body thinks and reacts as if it is in ďfamineĒ mode and clamps down on things including messes with hormone levels.

Overtraining can cause a problem with thyroid where there is sufficient levels in the blood but it is not able to enter into the cells. So you could have low thyroid symptoms while blood tests show plenty of thyroid.   Not sure if testosterone has any similar response.

thanks!
Title: Re: Would you go on TRT? if...
Post by: nissan1414 on April 28, 2019, 03:39:22 pm
I definitely felt like garbage last year while in the 400s. Cleaning up on the diet, partying, and keeping to my gym routine helped get me into the 500s again.

This is the first time that I've heard partying helps. Tell us more.

I'm kidding. I hope you can feel better at some point. Interesting discussion.

ooops - replied twice to this
Title: Re: Would you go on TRT? if...
Post by: nissan1414 on April 28, 2019, 03:40:12 pm
Are you drinking coffee/tea or taking any other stimulants? If so, I would eliminate those and see if that makes a difference to your sleep and ultimately wellbeing.

Nope, very rarely. Recently cut out nicotine though, so hoping that will help too.
Depending on how long you smoked or chewed getting over nicotine can really reak havock with your overall mood. I got on TRT to find relief from my depression and anxiety and I believe the root or trigger for my depression was nicotine withdrawal.

Very off and on for years. Months off, then months on. Been off just over a month but had a small relapse last week while trying to kick it for good this time.
Title: Re: Would you go on TRT? if...
Post by: nissan1414 on April 28, 2019, 03:41:16 pm
Nobody on a forum can tell you what will work. Only way is to try it yourself. I also do not believe 550 is low for your age. It may be low for you. And may be great for someone else your age. I for one fluctuate between 290-390. Iíve tried trt a few times. Was a patient of dr crislers and we tried every single trt trick around and i never felt better on it then off. I felt slight improvement in energy but it made many other things worse. Like sleep and mental side effects. Even with low t issues I still had fun and was motivated. On trt I really start to lose motivation and my emotions are up and down. And no rhyme or reason to how I feel day by day. Over at excel make a bunch of guys share same story. That said many guys have gotten their life back on trt. If you feel youíre not yourself try it out. I have always returned to baseline even quitting trt cold turkey. And for me getting off isnít that hard.

Hope that didnít come across as me bashing trt. Just for me personally itís too complicated. And our body is so complex imo fixing one hormone that throws other out of wack is far from optimal.

I'm not surprised. I have a friend in the mid 200s and he seems to be doing just fine.