Peak Testosterone Forum

General Category => Testosterone, Hormones and General Men's Health => Topic started by: Envious1320 on April 23, 2012, 05:20:11 pm

Title: Just beginning my low t journey
Post by: Envious1320 on April 23, 2012, 05:20:11 pm
I am about to turn 30 but have been feeling like crap for atleast 2 years.

Always wondered why I could but on zero muscle mass no matter how hard I worked and clean I ate.(5'8 150lbs skinny build) My interests were fading fast, sex drive almost gone and the best way to describe it was I was just "existing" Went and got tested a week ago. Get the call that yes my T is low and I need to go in and talk about options.

Here are my labs which were done at 6:30am and all my other numbers came out find such as rbc and wbc, blood pressure is good
Total test 296 ng/dL (286-1510 ng/dL range)
Free test 71 pg/mL (47 - 244 pg/mL range)
TSH 2.29 uIU/mL
FSH 1.1 mIU/mL (1.4-18.1 mIU/mL)
LH 2.4 mIU/mL (1.5 - 9.3 mIU/mL)

Feels like I am low but would like some other opinions. Now after 3 more visits I have MRI scheduled to look at my pituitary and make sure there is nothing wrong with it. Feel like maybe I am just spinning my wheels and not getting anywhere.
Title: Re: Just beginning my low t journey
Post by: PeakT on April 23, 2012, 08:42:23 pm
Well, it's best to let the docs really check you out and run whatever tests they deem necessary.  Yes, your T is low and I'm not surprised you are having symptoms.  Most good docs look at your symptoms also and, of course, you've got some of the classic low T symptoms. 

I've got to ask you these q's:

--Are you overweight by any chance?
--Having you bee dieting?
--How do you sleep?
--Any medications?

Btw, I've known guys that have put on some muscle, including myself, in spite of being low T.  It's much more slow, but it can be done.  I'm not saying anyone wants to do that, but you want to make you're getting enough protein and calories.
Title: Re: Just beginning my low t journey
Post by: feelgood on April 23, 2012, 08:56:51 pm
right, seems like they start off with the MRI. That's how i started my "journey." It came back clean, and chances are yours will too.

My journey quickened its pace soon after that, but that's really dependent on the doctor. Are you seeing a male hormone (read: T friendly)/male fertility specific urologist?

If not, you need to get searching and get to one. My primary care was clueless (expected), and then the endocronologist i saw was an improvement, but not vastly. It was the third try that was my lucky charm in terms of really seeing things move forward.  So i'd say go urologist, and one that has written about, spoken about, or at least TALKS about T on their practice website.

Good luck.
Title: Re: Just beginning my low t journey
Post by: Envious1320 on April 23, 2012, 09:04:17 pm
Well, it's best to let the docs really check you out and run whatever tests they deem necessary.  Yes, your T is low and I'm not surprised you are having symptoms.  Most good docs look at your symptoms also and, of course, you've got some of the classic low T symptoms. 

I've got to ask you these q's:

--Are you overweight by any chance?
--Having you bee dieting?
--How do you sleep?
--Any medications?

Btw, I've known guys that have put on some muscle, including myself, in spite of being low T.  It's much more slow, but it can be done.  I'm not saying anyone wants to do that, but you want to make you're getting enough protein and calories.

Thanks for getting back to me.
To answer your questions. Nope not over weight at all, my diet has been super clean however get plenty of mono and ply fats. I have tried everything that I have heard of for bulking including have protein up around 280 grams and carbs much more then that and cals around 3500 to 4k, all i did was put weight around my midsection even while exercising. My sleep is okay not great, and I take no medications at all.
Title: Re: Just beginning my low t journey
Post by: Envious1320 on April 23, 2012, 09:08:39 pm
right, seems like they start off with the MRI. That's how i started my "journey." It came back clean, and chances are yours will too.

My journey quickened its pace soon after that, but that's really dependent on the doctor. Are you seeing a male hormone (read: T friendly)/male fertility specific urologist?

If not, you need to get searching and get to one. My primary care was clueless (expected), and then the endocronologist i saw was an improvement, but not vastly. It was the third try that was my lucky charm in terms of really seeing things move forward.  So i'd say go urologist, and one that has written about, spoken about, or at least TALKS about T on their practice website.

Good luck.

No I am just currently at my primary care. When the first low test blood work came back he said he would have given it to me no problem but wanted to give me another bloodwork just to make sure. It too came back less then 300ng and he started to back off and say oh well you are within the range so that cant be it. I have been pushing just to get this far. I was thinking about going to see a urologist just wanted to see if this mri would play out. Thanks for the advice as there is a urologist that excepting new patients for low test I just found
Title: Re: Just beginning my low t journey
Post by: FightLowT on April 24, 2012, 11:10:45 pm
right, seems like they start off with the MRI. That's how i started my "journey." It came back clean, and chances are yours will too.

My journey quickened its pace soon after that, but that's really dependent on the doctor. Are you seeing a male hormone (read: T friendly)/male fertility specific urologist?

If not, you need to get searching and get to one. My primary care was clueless (expected), and then the endocronologist i saw was an improvement, but not vastly. It was the third try that was my lucky charm in terms of really seeing things move forward.  So i'd say go urologist, and one that has written about, spoken about, or at least TALKS about T on their practice website.

Good luck.

No I am just currently at my primary care. When the first low test blood work came back he said he would have given it to me no problem but wanted to give me another bloodwork just to make sure. It too came back less then 300ng and he started to back off and say oh well you are within the range so that cant be it. I have been pushing just to get this far. I was thinking about going to see a urologist just wanted to see if this mri would play out. Thanks for the advice as there is a urologist that excepting new patients for low test I just found


I had levels very similar to yours and dealt with qwaks just like your ridiculous qwak. You see these qwaks don't like it when they have to actually deal with something or treat a patient especially when it's something you know more about than they do. It puts pressure on the qwaks to not have to be lazy and the little qwaks don't like that because they went through all that "school" so they can get their paycheck, live in the big house, drive the fancy car, and have the trophy wife. You, the "overly-imaginiative , all in your head" low T guy is asking the qwak to actually do his job and bless his heart why should he have to do anything else but tell someone in his own words to F--- off. I mean you are afterall a good 50 points above an absolutely horrifical, metabolic syndrome inducing, diabetes risking, ED promoting, alzheimer increasing, low-libido generating, and heart failure associated low T level. First Fire the qwak's silly,little ass then tell him why he's being fired , and of course don't forget to let him know what an irreprehensibly,worthless uneducated, shame to the profession he is ( or you could call him an ass pirate). Can you tell I would absolutely love to do it for you? lol...Ask the qwak if he honestly believes a guy 50 points over what a 105 year old man's testosterone levels are ( probably higher in all reality :o) really feels any better than the poor bastard that is 240...

When I first noticed I had problems was back when I hit 30,31. I went to the doc out of the blue from feeling like crap and got a morning sample taken and it came to 294 ng/dl. I've had levels in the mid 300's some mornings and recently had one that was 400 ( man watch out thats really high  ::). By the way some good news is that more labs are moving from that abysmal 240 entry mark and closer to 300-350 entry readings now. Your levels in my opinion are indeed hypogonadal. At 296 you are more than likely going to be below 200 at the end of the day due to the drop off which ranges from a 15-30% decrease throughout the day. I have been checked before at a hospital at 6pm and mine came to 199 ng/dl...I've said it once and I will say it again. There is absolutely no reason at all for a man to fall into the 300's let alone 200's, or dare me puke some blood 100's at any time of the day, night, eclipse, apocalypse etc..I would love to hear a qwak's justification for allowing that. It would probably make about as much sense or have the same intellectual merit as a turd falling out of my butt and making a nice gurgling splash as it hit the water in the toilet.

Based on what your numbers show it would seem you are showing signs of classical secondary hypogonadism. Both your LH and FSH are low as well as your total T and free T. HCG may be a viable option for treatment but you may also have to rely on exogenous T supplementation.

Get a real doctor brother!! Let the duck play in his pond of ignorance. Educated patients are eventually going to demand more knowledge be illustrated by doctors and the ones that do not have this knowledge are going to be phased out and given mops to clean peep booths where they belong..
Title: Re: Just beginning my low t journey
Post by: spiderman on April 25, 2012, 04:07:38 am
LOL..nice one FightlowT!....yip everyone on here has that common theme of docs either being dismissive, lacking the knowledge and/or  looking at you like you are some sort of alien!... Seems they simply have not been given  the education of this life threatining situ in med school ...how could they miss that?.. All of us on here are way above their heads now with what we know..but we are not supposed to be the educated ones!

There must be at least a few docs checking this site out.. so come on post, and give us some feedback on why you are lacking when it comes to treating the most important aspect of a guys life and as important, the health issues that are actually attached to having low T...

Mentioned before..makes me feel like going back to Uni, getting some med ed, and starting  a low T clinic after graduating!...grrr getting angry again

Something has got to give in the medical community...PERIOD!
Title: Re: Just beginning my low t journey
Post by: Envious1320 on April 30, 2012, 03:41:38 pm
Okay so my MRI is back and came back clean, so here I sit still with low t and no soloution as of yet. To quote the letter I got from the doc,"No clear cause of low testosterone being low."
Title: Re: Just beginning my low t journey
Post by: PeakT on April 30, 2012, 04:38:22 pm
Okay so my MRI is back and came back clean, so here I sit still with low t and no soloution as of yet. To quote the letter I got from the doc,"No clear cause of low testosterone being low."
Most men don't know what caused their low testosterone.  Sometimes it's obvious:  tumor, obesity, syndrome, etc.  But usually you don't know the exact cause, so you're not alone on that.

Your T is clearly at the level where many doctors will treat you, especially since you are having classic low testosterone symptoms.  What are your doctors saying at this point though?
Title: Re: Just beginning my low t journey
Post by: Envious1320 on April 30, 2012, 05:45:30 pm
Okay so my MRI is back and came back clean, so here I sit still with low t and no soloution as of yet. To quote the letter I got from the doc,"No clear cause of low testosterone being low."
Most men don't know what caused their low testosterone.  Sometimes it's obvious:  tumor, obesity, syndrome, etc.  But usually you don't know the exact cause, so you're not alone on that.

Your T is clearly at the level where many doctors will treat you, especially since you are having classic low testosterone symptoms.  What are your doctors saying at this point though?

I am waiting to see, I just got the results back this morning and that quote I gave was what was at the bottom of the letter. In the beginning it seemed like he had no problem with going done the TRT route but as things progressed he backed off. Not sure if I should look for someone that specializes in this or continue with my primary.
Title: Re: Just beginning my low t journey
Post by: PeakT on April 30, 2012, 06:10:59 pm
Based on emails and forum posting, most PCPs are ill-prepared to handle HRT/hypogonadism.  If he/she has taken the time to do some research, then you may be okay, but I would interview your doc and find out how much he/she knows.  Many PCPs - and I'm not being derogatory here but just factual - are living back in the 90's as far as basic knowledge. on this subject.

Usually there are certain urologists and/or endocrinologists that specialize in these sort of issues and it can take some research and trial and error to find them.  If you can, I would actually go to both of these:  the urologist can look for things like varicoceles and venous leakage and can handle pellets if you become int'd in those.  And a good endo should be much better at looking at your entire hormonal profile (estrogen, prolactin, etc.) in case there are any issues.

But most PCPs will have no idea about any of the above or just have a cursory knowledge.  Again, just a few questions and you should be able to find what your PCP knows.

The more good docs involved, the better.  You have to do your part and they should do theirs.
Title: Re: Just beginning my low t journey
Post by: Envious1320 on April 30, 2012, 06:34:30 pm
Based on emails and forum posting, most PCPs are ill-prepared to handle HRT/hypogonadism.  If he/she has taken the time to do some research, then you may be okay, but I would interview your doc and find out how much he/she knows.  Many PCPs - and I'm not being derogatory here but just factual - are living back in the 90's as far as basic knowledge. on this subject.

Usually there are certain urologists and/or endocrinologists that specialize in these sort of issues and it can take some research and trial and error to find them.  If you can, I would actually go to both of these:  the urologist can look for things like varicoceles and venous leakage and can handle pellets if you become int'd in those.  And a good endo should be much better at looking at your entire hormonal profile (estrogen, prolactin, etc.) in case there are any issues.

But most PCPs will have no idea about any of the above or just have a cursory knowledge.  Again, just a few questions and you should be able to find what your PCP knows.

The more good docs involved, the better.  You have to do your part and they should do theirs.

Yeah that is kind of what I was thinking the problem is that most endo's and  urologists are out multiple months, closest I could find so far is end of July. Makes it frustrating. Will just keep digging I suppose but waiting that long seems like a road I dont want to go done to possibly have to start most of the way over again. Thoughts?
Title: Re: Just beginning my low t journey
Post by: 399 on April 30, 2012, 07:09:24 pm
from what i have learned i wouldnt let a primary care doctor manage a trt program anyway, unless maybe it was a primary problem.  based on your lh and fsh you appear to be secondary, which they wouldn't even know what that meant. 
Title: Re: Just beginning my low t journey
Post by: Envious1320 on April 30, 2012, 07:33:03 pm
Well I have learned enough that I think as long as I can work with the doc we can manage one together. I already have an idea on the route I want to go now its just getting the actual prescription. I dont have a problem with seeing and endo or urologist but the 3 month wait to even get started with the process I do have a problem with. With my mri coming back clean and with lh and fsh being so low I figure this may be the best way to go.
Title: Re: Just beginning my low t journey
Post by: PeakT on April 30, 2012, 09:12:21 pm
I know low T is miserable and so you have to do what you have to do.  My only comment, though, is that, if you are int'd, other options may very well work for you besides just straight HRT.  Not that there is anything wrong with HRT - it's well-studied and looks good so far in the research to date.  But I'm just pointing out that a good endo or urologist may be able to get you going w/ Clomid or HCG.
Title: Re: Just beginning my low t journey
Post by: Envious1320 on April 30, 2012, 09:40:39 pm
I know low T is miserable and so you have to do what you have to do.  My only comment, though, is that, if you are int'd, other options may very well work for you besides just straight HRT.  Not that there is anything wrong with HRT - it's well-studied and looks good so far in the research to date.  But I'm just pointing out that a good endo or urologist may be able to get you going w/ Clomid or HCG.

I am pretty much open to anything that will get me back to feeling like myself :) I will look into to Clomid and HCG as I do want the best option. Thanks for your help and in helping me understand.
Title: Re: Just beginning my low t journey
Post by: Envious1320 on April 30, 2012, 09:49:02 pm
The "brain fog" seems to be the one getting worse along with how tired I feel. I have never had any sort of anxiety but it is creeping up on me and my memory or lack there of is also very bad. Just thought I would re mention some of the symptoms here is a list of everything that I currently experiencing.

-Fatigue or decreased energy
-Reduced sex drive
-Sexual dysfunction
-Depressed mood
-Increased body fat especially around mid section
-Reduced muscle mass and strength
-Thinning of facial hair
-Anxiety
-"Brain Fog"



Title: Re: Just beginning my low t journey
Post by: PeakT on April 30, 2012, 10:39:31 pm
I am pretty much open to anything that will get me back to feeling like myself :) I will look into to Clomid and HCG as I do want the best option. Thanks for your help and in helping me understand.

Well, I like pure HRT because bioidenical T is about as natural of a molecule as you can get imo.  HCG is just so powerful that it's a little scary to me, but talk to your doc - I'm sure with enough experience they know how to handle it.  And Clomid is a pharmaceutical no matter how you slice it. 

Anyway, if you've poked around here, you know most of the basic issues and can discuss with your doc.  Let us know how it goes...
Title: Re: Just beginning my low t journey
Post by: Envious1320 on May 01, 2012, 06:21:17 pm
Alright so my next appointment is talk about side effects of using testosterone, sounds like I may be getting close. I have done some of my own research on this but got any major bullet points of interest?
Title: Re: Just beginning my low t journey
Post by: PeakT on May 01, 2012, 07:08:31 pm
Nope.  Btw, even though it's not that common, I would write down all your q's and make sure he/she answers you with an understandable explanation on each.  It's easy to forget something important if you don't...
Title: Re: Just beginning my low t journey
Post by: Envious1320 on May 01, 2012, 09:35:39 pm
Really my only worry is that he going to put me on a program like 200mg every 2 weeks which i fear will cause me peaks and valleys. Just have to wait and see i guess. Thanks for you help.
Title: Re: Just beginning my low t journey
Post by: FightLowT on May 02, 2012, 04:21:31 pm
You need to let the qwak know that he should consider keeping your balls alive with small interval doses of hcg around twice a week 100-300 iu.  E2 management should be discussed as well. Also I would recommend him writing a script for a vial of 10ml 200mg/ml test cypionate so you can do your own injections. You do not under any circumstances want to have to rely on the qwak's staff to give you your shot once every two weeks. It's not that 200 mg every two weeks is bad and one would seem to think from a qwak perspective ( typically dumbfounded in regards to HRT) that if 100mg a week is enough to put you in a decent range than 200 for two weeks should be enough for two weeks. Well here is where the qwak is wrong. It won't be enough frequency in the injections to keep stable levels which is what one should go for with the correct dosage. You will get a strong peak at the beggining of the shot and it will quickly metabolize and taper to nothing by the time of the second week has passed and it's time for another poke.  ::) These silly, little "docs" for some reason think that testosterone esters have a magical half life that is different from other medications they prescribe.It's part of the whole demonization of testosterone the media has conveneiently conjured up for ratings. They will gladly promote baseball players who are obviously juicing and hitting homeruns out of the park for ratings and then when it's time they will gladly chastise them when they get in trouble over some BS congress litigates. (don't get me started on govt.) Anyway back to my point, doctors just don't want to see it logically with testosterone as opposed to other drugs ( well T isn't really a drug though is it, it's a naturally occuring hormone that the FDA conveniently deemed a drug) and their half lives. They are so scared of it because of the media that it blinds them from being able to administer it properly. You should be injecting at least one a week if he presribes cypionate and that will typically be 100-150 mg depending on how your body metabolizes it. Most forums where TRT vets post talk about injecting once every 3-4 days. This keeps stable levels due to the half life of the ester. You will more than likely as you stated before go through the peaks and valleys with just one biweekly injection. So in the reality of half lives which doctors just don't know about, you could rightfully expect to feel good for around 6 days after your injection to quicly feeling not so good until your next shot 8 more days away.  :-\ There is also reasoning behind the multiple injections at smaller doses that E2 levels do not spike or have a tendency to with the larger less infrequent injections. I would also discuss with him the use of a gel or compounded cream and not one that is 1% either. I hear it all too often that guys who use a 1% cream/gel start to feel worse than they did before using the cream. They go back to the doc for a follow up lab and their T is lower than it was before using the 1% cream/gel...lol  All a 1% gel/cream does is shut down your HPTA with no added benefit. My dad for instance uses a 1% androgel and has been using it for a couple of months and hasn't felt a thing. I told him to demand the qwak give him at least a 5% gel to start with.
Title: Re: Just beginning my low t journey
Post by: Envious1320 on May 04, 2012, 11:00:16 pm
First off FightLowT always enjoy your posts man. Second got back from the doc mri results are no tumors. Wanted to run tests one more time and here are the results.

TESTOSTERONE 301ng/dL (286-1510 ng/dL)
INSULIN LIKE GF 1 150ng/mL (117 - 329ng/mL)
TSH 1.66uIU/mL (0.30 - 4.70uIU/mL)
FSH 1.2mIU/mL (1.4 -18.1 mIU/mL)
LH 1.5mIU/mL (1.5 -9.3 mIU/mL)

Any thoughts on these results?  Hopefully this is the last set of tests as this is my 3rd low testosterone blood test. Still leaning toward secondary Hypogonadism.
Title: Re: Just beginning my low t journey
Post by: Quincy on May 04, 2012, 11:07:46 pm
Envious1320, looks like secondary to me... but I'll let the knowledgeable people weigh in.
Title: Re: Just beginning my low t journey
Post by: FightLowT on May 05, 2012, 06:20:48 pm
As some of my friends who are involved with radio would say "You got weak signal man". I would have to think this is clearly a secondary condition. The labs are not suggesting anything otherwise. Don't despair. If anything look at it from a positive perspective that your testes are still able to make that amount of testosterone with such a little degree of LH. Based on all the cases I have read about, my own personal experience, and research I have looked over it would appear that before hcg be considered as a treatment option that first a restart type of protocol or priming of your hpta should occur first. If I was the doctor and man I really wish I was ( so I could effectively help you guys) I would try a clomid (clomiphene citrate) treatment which would theoretically stimulate your hypothalamus to secrete more gnrh and the pituitary in turn from inhibition of negative feedback loop of etrogen will secrete more LH and FSH. Honestly Tamoxiphene citrate or nolvadex will do the same thing and would probably be a much better option due that it will actually increase the pituitary's sensitivity to gnrh as opposed to clomid which has been shown to decrease sensitivity at the pituitary. We want your body to produce more of its own natural testosterone and therefore we want your pituitary to work as optimally as possible and secrete as much LH as it can. There very well might be a chance that your hpta could be stimulated or reset to a point where you may produce over 400 ng/dl  of serum testosterone or more after cessation of treatement. Using HCG as a first measure is only going to supress your pituitary's ability to produce LH . The higher you go up the ladder regarding treatment of a likely damaged or deficient hpta the better..
Title: Re: Just beginning my low t journey
Post by: Envious1320 on May 06, 2012, 03:56:35 pm
Thanks FightLowT. Hey PeakT can i get your thoughts?
Title: Re: Just beginning my low t journey
Post by: PeakT on May 06, 2012, 10:59:34 pm
FightLow's post looks good.  Sorry, one thing:  have you checked into a fertility doc?  They often have lots of experience.  You might be able to get in a little faster.
Title: Re: Just beginning my low t journey
Post by: Envious1320 on May 07, 2012, 04:47:00 pm
Thanks PeakT. So i got a note from my doc and he said i need to go see an endo. Let the waiting begin. Sucks i have to live this way:(
Title: Re: Just beginning my low t journey
Post by: PeakT on May 07, 2012, 05:40:40 pm
I know what you mean.  At least you know what's wrong.  For a long time my GP was telling me I was okay with testosterone in the low 300's and I believed him cuzz I didn't know any better.  So I just sort of limped along figuring I had chronic fatigue or candidas or any of a hundred other syndromes I looked into.  Not fun...
Title: Re: Just beginning my low t journey
Post by: Envious1320 on May 30, 2012, 02:34:15 pm
Hey guys,
Still pushing through and feeling like crap. Went and saw an endo. He wanted to go down the depression road, but I told him that wasn't it. He took more blood and here are the results.

igf-1    157ng/mL   115 - 307   ng/mL

FSH,SERUM 1mIU/mL   < 19   mIU/mL

TESTOST: FREE CALC, ADULT MALE    68pg/mL   47 - 244   pg/mL

TESTOST: % FREE, ADULT MALE   2.0   1.6 - 2.9   %

TESTOSTERONE, ADULT MALE    342ng/dL    300 - 1080   ng/dL

EX HORMONE BINDING GLOBULIN,SERUM    28nmol/L   11 - 80nmol/L

FREE T4, SERUM   1.1ng/dL   0.6 - 1.2ng/dL

TSH   1.27uIU/ml   0.34 - 5.60   uIU/ml

LUTEINIZING HORMONE,SERUM   2mIU/mL   < 11mIU/mL

PROLACTIN   9ng/ml   3 - 13ng/ml

Thoughts? He said that he didn't know if I would benefit from TRT when I was in there, but that was before the results had come back. For reference I have had blood taken 3 different times just for testosterone and they have been 296, 301, 342. I had caffeine the day of the 342.
Title: Re: Just beginning my low t journey
Post by: PeakT on May 30, 2012, 03:36:50 pm
Looks like you just got verification, eh?  I guess my obvious comment is look at the symptoms you posted above:

"-Fatigue or decreased energy
-Reduced sex drive
-Sexual dysfunction
-Depressed mood
-Increased body fat especially around mid section
-Reduced muscle mass and strength
-Thinning of facial hair
-Anxiety
-Brain Fog"

Here's what almost everyone on the board is going to point out:

1.  As you probably know, these are all classic low T symptoms.  And, considering that you are young, your symptoms are probably only heightened (from what I've seen). 

2.  Your testosterone is very low for almost any male under the age of 80!

3.  Many docs will now treat most men with testosterone symptoms below 350 ng/dl.

Should you go on HRT?  Well, that depends on a lot of things, including fertility at your age.  But you've eliminated a lot of the standard correctable issues for low T such as hypothyroidism, elevated prolactin, etc.  (I can't remember if you have had your Vitamin D checked - this would be a very good idea as Vitamin D deficiency can lead to artificially low testosterone.)  And, assuming you've eliminated all the standard lifestyle factors that can lower testosterone (sleep, overweight, stress, etc.) then the field is getting narrowed.

Now if you and your doc are thinking of going down the therapy route, then you'll have to decide (as mentioned above) if you are going to try straight HRT or one of the alternative therapies.  You've probably been doing some reading on that, so there will be some discussion there.

Let us know what you're thinking and what happens...
Title: Re: Just beginning my low t journey
Post by: feelgood on May 30, 2012, 05:25:18 pm
FightLowT had good thoughts a couple posts up.  You definitely sound secondary, and what he says makes sense about kickstarting your own natuaral T production.

I'm secondary, and my doc has done just that - going with Clomiphene/Clomid. After 5.5 weeks i went from around 200 ng/dl to 627 ng/dl.
I really have no side effects on it, and i feel just fine. Slowly, after 2.5 months on it, more of my symptoms seem to be getting a little better.

Not everyone is the same, but obviously the run of Clomid really kicked my LH into gear and really raised my T. There would be a really solid chance it could be good for you, given your secondary situation, so i really hope your doctor thinks it's an option.

If you don't care about fertility and such, maybe TRT is fine, as well. Supposedly, TRT "hits" your brain a little better, and the symptoms are taken care of more so, or at least more quickly...

At this point in my life, i'm ok to continue to wait for the Clomid to keep working (both T level AND symptom alleviation), and raise my own levels of T rather introduce synthetic T.
Title: Re: Just beginning my low t journey
Post by: Envious1320 on May 31, 2012, 07:23:40 am
Looks like you just got verification, eh?  I guess my obvious comment is look at the symptoms you posted above:

"-Fatigue or decreased energy
-Reduced sex drive
-Sexual dysfunction
-Depressed mood
-Increased body fat especially around mid section
-Reduced muscle mass and strength
-Thinning of facial hair
-Anxiety
-Brain Fog"

Here's what almost everyone on the board is going to point out:

1.  As you probably know, these are all classic low T symptoms.  And, considering that you are young, your symptoms are probably only heightened (from what I've seen). 

2.  Your testosterone is very low for almost any male under the age of 80!

3.  Many docs will now treat most men with testosterone symptoms below 350 ng/dl.

Should you go on HRT?  Well, that depends on a lot of things, including fertility at your age.  But you've eliminated a lot of the standard correctable issues for low T such as hypothyroidism, elevated prolactin, etc.  (I can't remember if you have had your Vitamin D checked - this would be a very good idea as Vitamin D deficiency can lead to artificially low testosterone.)  And, assuming you've eliminated all the standard lifestyle factors that can lower testosterone (sleep, overweight, stress, etc.) then the field is getting narrowed.

Now if you and your doc are thinking of going down the therapy route, then you'll have to decide (as mentioned above) if you are going to try straight HRT or one of the alternative therapies.  You've probably been doing some reading on that, so there will be some discussion there.

Let us know what you're thinking and what happens...

Fertility is a non issue married and have all the kids I want. Vitamin D was in range last time I had it checked back in March when I first had my test checked. Not overweight, getting more sleep and no more stress than normal. I am thinking I want to go down the HRT road. Actually just found out someone I work with has been on HRT for 2 years so now I probing him with questions. Too bad he just moved up here so he is looking for a new doc. I am giving my endo a call tomorrow and we will see what he says. Hopefully I am getting close.