Peak Testosterone Forum

General Category => Testosterone, Hormones and General Men's Health => Topic started by: Yep on April 24, 2012, 04:23:21 pm

Title: Propecia Horror Story and Recovery
Post by: Yep on April 24, 2012, 04:23:21 pm
I just recently encountered your article regarding Post-Finasteride-Syndrome, and I could share some advice from my own experience and recovery processes. I started taking the drug, in the Proscar form, about a year ago when I was 18. My doctor prescribed it to me, and unfortunately, neglected to warn me of the potential consequences. Of course, just two weeks in, I began to experience the described sexual side effects including numbness, shrinkage, testicular pain, dysfunction, etc. I stopped taking the drug immediately, but things only seemed to get worse. After a month off, my system "crashed", causing severe androgen deficiency and I was experiencing the full myriad of sexual and mental side effects, so add depression, fatigue, anxiety, insomnia, lack of motivation to the list of symptoms.

I tried to find help online through [edited by moderator], but the forums offered little help and there was a general consensus that the condition was irreversible, and it seemed only to be an outlet for affected users' misery, frustration and desperation. Obviously, I was devastated and saw myself transform from a motivated straight "A" student-athlete to a deplorable, miserable, couch-locked sociopath almost overnight. I visited doctors and endocrinologists, but none could offer any significant help, just testosterone-replacement-therapy.  ( I wasn't ready to give in at my age, and has very mixed results), or to dismiss my condition as psychosomatic or mentally self-induced.
After months of suffering and self-evaluation, I knew I needed to do something. To many guys with this condition,tragically, the answer is suicide. For me, I decided I must deploy every health tactic in the arsenal of modern medicine. Through my teen years, my sport has been natural powerlifting/bodybuilding and so thankfully I'd already been thoroughly self educated on the critical role of androgens in male physiology, and how to manipulate them without drugs. Furthermore, I came across a man based in England, under similar circumstances, was able to make a full recovery and put together a respective program on his own website.

I pooled my resources, which included your website peaktestosterone.com (which I read almost daily), and put together my own program. Basically, use a once-weekly resistance workout style called "big-five" which is detailed in the book [edited by moderator], I avoid cardio altogether, and focus on resting through most of the week. As for my diet, I follow a fairly strict paleo-style diet, focusing on meat, nuts, eggs, fruit and veggies. I consume no grains or processed foods and minimal dairy. After reading your article on the hormonal effects of pesticides, I've gone nearly full organic as well, with the exception of "safe" foods like avocados, kiwis and bananas. Further, I take a multivitamin, fish oil and 10 mg of zinc daily, and have now include maca and chia seeds following the advice of your website.

I've been adhering to my regimen for nearly 4 months now, and ,thankfully, have seen some wonderful progress in terms of my symptoms subsiding. Blood work has also documented my progress, as I've managed to increase my tesosterone from a daily average of 240 to an average of 430. I no longer suffer from brain fog or severe depressive/anxiety disorder, and am getting significantly more pleasure from sex and arousal. Anyways, my point is that many guys are victims of the corporate pigs who shoved this drug onto the market before a chance for proper research, and are forced to believe that this condition is entirely irreversible from an online community of similarly depressed and miserable perspectives.

While we may not know about this condition extensively, we do, however, know that it is based in an epigenetic change of the male chromosome, meaning that with the optimal diet, excercise stimulus, and rest, it is very plausible that anyone affected can make a full recovery. It is simply a matter of time and effort. I know I will make a full recovery within the year, and hopefully in the next few months, at which point I will begin to really push my solutions to the masses of affected individuals.

In the meantime I will keep up my progress, using your site and advice as an instrumental tool in getting back my young life. This really is a tragic situation for too many guys, and I hope you will try and share the solution.
Title: Re: Propecia Horror Story and Recovery
Post by: PeakT on April 24, 2012, 04:44:28 pm
Thx for the encouragment.  I didn't any of my searches were ranking for that issue, so that's great.

Well, I'm glad you're getting a nice, steady recovery and congrats on all the great changes. 

They can try to kill us, but we're not gonna let 'em, eh?
Title: Re: Propecia Horror Story and Recovery
Post by: marty on March 29, 2013, 05:31:28 pm
Hi Yep,

Are you still on THe forum? I'm encountering THE same as you did. How are you doing now? Almost a year later.

Really hope to hear from you

Title: Re: Propecia Horror Story and Recovery
Post by: PeakT on March 29, 2013, 05:58:05 pm
Hi Yep,

Are you still on THe forum? I'm encountering THE same as you did. How are you doing now? Almost a year later.

Really hope to hear from you

I haven't seen the original poster around.  As an fyi, I took the stuff for awhile myself and wonder how much that contributed to my low testosterone.  In my case I think it may have just made a bad problem worse as I am pretty sure I have been low T my entire adult life.

But my sympathies are with you and I'd encourage you to get tested if you have not already.
Title: Re: Propecia Horror Story and Recovery
Post by: Blade78 on March 29, 2013, 09:28:12 pm
Fear of baldness, stemming from my Dad and my older brother(who'd measure his stagnant hairline) caused me to try this stuff for about 6 months
Then I had the worst experience with the hottest girl and I tried to figure out why?
Instead of coming to the OBVIOUS answer, I had taken EC stack and thus ephedrine is a beta-agonist drug, and stimulates the sympathic nervous system, which inhibits the parasympathic, whic is required to get the penis hard,
I listened to a internet board, who was aware of my Propecia/Finasteride  regimin and thus told me that I was fucked....
likely it didnt help that I was also a fat ass who had lost his life, but didnt die, so I was pretty deep in a funk.
Even now, as the day is trying to be bright in my life, and I was tested for Test, it was low and is now 530, which is still low for a dude my age.
but shit, dont do drugs...the MD who gave me the Propecia/Finasteride  told me there was a 0.5% chance of having sexual side effects...I had no idea that were permanent, I still dont understand how they can permanent?

Congrats on the recovery, the body is an amazing device.


Hi Yep,

Are you still on THe forum? I'm encountering THE same as you did. How are you doing now? Almost a year later.

Really hope to hear from you

I haven't seen the original poster around.  As an fyi, I took the stuff for awhile myself and wonder how much that contributed to my low testosterone.  In my case I think it may have just made a bad problem worse as I am pretty sure I have been low T my entire adult life.

But my sympathies are with you and I'd encourage you to get tested if you have not already.
Title: Re: Propecia Horror Story and Recovery
Post by: 399 on March 29, 2013, 11:32:04 pm
i took it too and hate that now i am taking hcg and arimidex, just one drug on top of another, but see little choice.  they have definitely helped.  i knew there could be sexual side effects, but no idea they could be permanent.  the label said theyd go away if you stopped.  i agree with the original poster about that propeciahelp site.  it definitely sucks that this happened to me and everyone it happened to, but there is too much helpless bitching on that site rather than searches for answers.  life deals you a lot of bad cards and this is one, but you can either do something about it or just bitch and be miserable, which people on that site seem to have chosen to do.  i get depressed reading that stuff and would rather fight back.  i am much better now, but still nowhere near where i was before taking in terms of sex drive and enjoyment of sex.  the one thing i did find on their site is the endocrinologist who has done the most research on post finasteride syndrome dr irwig, happens to be at george washington university in washington, dc where i live, so i made an appointment to go see him which finally comes next month.  dont know if hell be able to do anything more for me than i am already doing but it is worth a shot i figure.  anyway, leave no stone unturned rather than sit around and whine.  if i learn anything from him i will post it on this board where people are actually trying to get better rather than the other one
Title: Re: Propecia Horror Story and Recovery
Post by: Blade78 on March 30, 2013, 12:28:53 am
i took it too and hate that now i am taking hcg and arimidex, just one drug on top of another, but see little choice.  they have definitely helped.  i knew there could be sexual side effects, but no idea they could be permanent.  the label said theyd go away if you stopped.  i agree with the original poster about that propeciahelp site.  it definitely sucks that this happened to me and everyone it happened to, but there is too much helpless bitching on that site rather than searches for answers.  life deals you a lot of bad cards and this is one, but you can either do something about it or just bitch and be miserable, which people on that site seem to have chosen to do.  i get depressed reading that stuff and would rather fight back. i am much better now, but still nowhere near where i was before taking in terms of sex drive and enjoyment of sex.  the one thing i did find on their site is the endocrinologist who has done the most research on post finasteride syndrome dr irwig, happens to be at george washington university in washington, dc where i live, so i made an appointment to go see him which finally comes next month.  dont know if hell be able to do anything more for me than i am already doing but it is worth a shot i figure.  anyway, leave no stone unturned rather than sit around and whine.  if i learn anything from him i will post it on this board where people are actually trying to get better rather than the other one
please let us know what Dr  Irwig says
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/247858.php

I am very curious and Im on board with your view about wanting to take action rather than bitching,  I like to do stuff to overcome problems, I like solutions, not problems
please let us know what he says
Title: Re: Propecia Horror Story and Recovery
Post by: PeakT on March 30, 2013, 01:54:52 am
i took it too and hate that now i am taking hcg and arimidex, just one drug on top of another, but see little choice.  they have definitely helped.  i knew there could be sexual side effects, but no idea they could be permanent.  the label said theyd go away if you stopped.  i agree with the original poster about that propeciahelp site.  it definitely sucks that this happened to me and everyone it happened to, but there is too much helpless bitching on that site rather than searches for answers.  life deals you a lot of bad cards and this is one, but you can either do something about it or just bitch and be miserable, which people on that site seem to have chosen to do.  i get depressed reading that stuff and would rather fight back.  i am much better now, but still nowhere near where i was before taking in terms of sex drive and enjoyment of sex.  the one thing i did find on their site is the endocrinologist who has done the most research on post finasteride syndrome dr irwig, happens to be at george washington university in washington, dc where i live, so i made an appointment to go see him which finally comes next month.  dont know if hell be able to do anything more for me than i am already doing but it is worth a shot i figure.  anyway, leave no stone unturned rather than sit around and whine.  if i learn anything from him i will post it on this board where people are actually trying to get better rather than the other one

If it's appropriate, let us know what comes out of that meeting:  it might help quite a few of those to follow.
Title: Re: Propecia Horror Story and Recovery
Post by: JackAndy on March 30, 2013, 02:33:36 am
Wow those are some really emotional stories guys. I had no idea that a baldness pill could do that.
Title: Re: Propecia Horror Story and Recovery
Post by: Blade78 on March 30, 2013, 02:42:45 am
Wow those are some really emotional stories guys. I had no idea that a baldness pill could do that.
I agree
that;s why I want to know what Dr Irwig says. one pill, effects (or is it affects) you the rest of your life?
This pill has some serious stuff going on.  you can take AAS, which goes into a cell and changes DNA(makes more protein), yet those effects wear off when you stop taking AAS...so how does one pill change? something? in the body to cause sexual problems?
I'd like Dr Irwig to answer that.
It's not that I don't buy what he's selling nor the people affect by gulf war syndrome...I just want to know what's going on and how it's going on.
Then how to treat it
John Kelley: Look, I don't care what you call it: Gulf War Syndrome, Iraq Fever, Crappy Sickness X.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0979558/trivia?tab=qt
Title: Re: Propecia Horror Story and Recovery
Post by: PeakT on March 30, 2013, 03:11:33 am
Here is an ABC article with Irwig's comments:

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/baldness-drug-propecia-long-lasting-possibly-permanent-sexual/story?id=16758123#.UVZXDRw4tPM
The study looked at about 100 men who had side effects after taking the drug.  For almost all of these men the side effects last OVER a year at least.  Scary stuff...

And check this out:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2172553/Propecia-Baldness-drug-Wayne-Rooney-took-cause-permanent-impotence-shrink-genitals-men.html

This states that "Doctor reveals twenty percent of patients he interviewed for Propecia study experienced persistent sexual dysfunction for more than five years."
Title: Re: Propecia Horror Story and Recovery
Post by: JackAndy on March 30, 2013, 03:25:00 am
I wonder how many guys are walking around in my country with permanent damage from Propecoa. Men are obsessed with hair here. They never wear hats and you never see bald guys. They will pay anything to get their hair back. There are two hair restoration clinics within walking distance from my house.
Title: Re: Propecia Horror Story and Recovery
Post by: PeakT on March 30, 2013, 03:35:52 am
I wonder how many guys are walking around in my country with permanent damage from Propecoa. Men are obsessed with hair here. They never wear hats and you never see bald guys. They will pay anything to get their hair back. There are two hair restoration clinics within walking distance from my house.

Sure you and I and about 10 million other people.  It's kind of interesting the FDA doesn't look into, eh?
Title: Re: Propecia Horror Story and Recovery
Post by: Blade78 on March 30, 2013, 03:57:08 am
I wonder how many guys are walking around in my country with permanent damage from Propecoa. Men are obsessed with hair here. They never wear hats and you never see bald guys. They will pay anything to get their hair back. There are two hair restoration clinics within walking distance from my house.
Ive wondered that myself,
why dont bald/balding men wear hats?
I remember my grandfather having tons of moles/sunspots/etc removed from his bald head
HE ALWAYS WORE A HAT outside

i understand teens/kids <25, they think they are I^3, (immortal, invincible, infertile) but older men?  35+?  why arent you wearing hats?
Title: Re: Propecia Horror Story and Recovery
Post by: JackAndy on March 30, 2013, 04:06:08 am
I'm bald and put sunblock on my whole head and face.
Title: Re: Propecia Horror Story and Recovery
Post by: marty on March 30, 2013, 10:23:18 am
399,

I would really like to hear what dr Irwig says. I hope he is still doing research for a solution. We have to be positive. Without being positive it is not gonna work. After visiting a lot of different specialists (urologist, internal deceases doctor, endocrinologist, sexuologist) That couldn't do anything for me I'm now seeing a "natural healer". I Will update you if it works.

Personally I really think it is the test level or THe receptors for it. I have all THE signs of a low test level, though it's between 14 and 17 n/mol (norm range between 10 and 35). Lifting weights and otherwise healthy living is THE only thing I do.
I do use cialis 5mg every evening. Since using I do get some morning wood. I haven't had That THe 9 months before

Title: Re: Propecia Horror Story and Recovery
Post by: JackAndy on March 30, 2013, 10:55:09 am
That couldn't do anything for me I'm now seeing a "natural healer". I Will update you if it works.

Please do I'm interested in natural healing too.
Title: Re: Propecia Horror Story and Recovery
Post by: marty on May 09, 2013, 12:08:58 pm
Hi 399,

Have you been to dr Irwig yet? I really hope he has some news. I believe he startend a post Fin research project more than a year ago.

All The best

Marty
Title: Re: Propecia Horror Story and Recovery
Post by: pking1986 on May 20, 2013, 03:34:32 am
Thanks for posting this, it was an inspiration for me. I was on propecia for 8 and 1/2 years. I took it from 18 to 26, and quit this January. It seems, based on what I've found on the internet, that these effects hurt younger guys more than older ones. Unfortunately I don't think there are any studies that can back that up yet, but its been my impression from what I've read. After a month, I had a "crash" and I started looking around the internet for a reason why. I found propeciahelp, which is terrifying. I couldn't get any erections for two weeks. Since then, I have avoided propeciahelp and any other sites, including this one, to just try to mellow out and avoid overthinking everything. I was also dealing with getting IBS - irritable bowel syndrome, which is its own set of issues, and was in law school, dating a girl long distance, and had transferred to a closer school to be with the girl. IBS, pfs, and the distance lead to the end of that girl, and I was a wreck. I am sure that the crash was propecia though. The relationship ended 7 months before I crashed. But I have had slow, steady improvements since about a month and a half after going off propecia.

I quit propecia because I was having trouble with sensitivity, which I finally linked to propecia. I had been actively not aware of the side effects, I dismissed them along time ago as bullshit, which was stupid. Unfortunately I already lost my girlfriend, who I moved across the coutnry for. But I think it was a very gradual loss of sensitivity. After quitting, I felt great for 2 weeks (typical), then crashed about a month out, and had no erections, and ball ache for 2 weeks. The erections came back, but were weaker, and sensitivity was not great. I also had watery semen.

Now, about 5 1/2 months off propecia, I feel better, but i'm not quite all the way back. my sensitivity continues to improve, and i can always get erections, and sex is pretty pleasurable with my new girlfriend. the ball ache has been gone for the last two weeks. it seems to pop up during stress, if that makes any sense, and sometimes after i drink coffee.

I also saw a few doctors. my old dermatologist: useless, just said that yes, there does seem to be some longterm side effects now. A general practitioner who I got T testing from: my T was normal, but barely, and this varies on low depending on what you believe on the internet. And I saw a urologist to make sure my prostate and balls were okay. (they are). The urologist was the best, he was calming, and said that he thought within a year it would work itself out of my system.

Ok, so recovery

Sensitivity: much better, though not all the way back. maybe a 6/10? but I was at like 1/10, and it continues to improve. confident that this will continue to come back. regular sex helps.
Ball ache: continues to go away, nothing for two weeks. was reassured by visit to urologist who assured me i have no prostate / testicular problems.
Mind: I think I am more focused than I was. I felt lathargic / lazy / tired alot when on propecia the last couple of years, but i hesitate to put that all on propecia. Law school is long and tedious, so its probably a bit of both.
Sleeping: for about 2 1/2 months after propecia, this was the worst. I would wake up at 3am wide awake, with crazy anxiety. This has gone away, thank god, after 2 1/2 months.
Body composition: I've lost ass fat, and have a bit more muscle definition. I've been working out with a trainer for about a year and a half, and my high reps have gone up since going off the drug. But I still have some chest fat, not optimistic it will go away, from what i've read and what the doctors say. I was never fat, the chest fat is definitetly from propecia and not from being fat before. I can bench 225, and I'm 6-2, 195, but its still there. Its not ideal, but if that ends up being the worst of it, I'll be okay.

What I do / what I think helps.

Weightlifting helps ball ache. Especially heavy stuff: any kind of bench press, squats of any kind, deadlifts, leg press, preacher curls, bent over rows. I also run, but its mostly to clear my head and stay calm. Sleeping is good, once I got past the 2 1/2 months where I would wake up at 3am. Having sex and jacking off seems to be okay. Its not at the level I was at at 18 / 19, but its fine. There are times I can go 3 or 4 times a day.

Diet: keep in mind this includes stuff to help with IBS. I started with lots of fish, for protein, for weightlifting. I've slowly added in chicken and red meat. Certain really processed meats aren't good for me: hot dogs, deli meats. I take a multivitamin with iron, and a fish oil supplement, but my doctor says salmon 2x a week is just as good as the fish oil. I also take a small (1 tsp) scoop of metamucil fiber once a day.

For testosterone, I went with red meat in moderation, as well as pomagranate juice (not that bad), and the iron multivitamin. I really don't want to get into any more drugs if I can help it, because I don't want to introduce any more unknown variables than I can help.

So anyways, best of luck to anyone else out there dealing with this shit. I personally am avoiding testosterone therapy or drugs beyond a vitamin, but i don't begrudge anyone who goes that route. I've found success in some form with weights, sleep, time, and trying to not think about it.

I read this somewhere, not sure if it was here or on bodybuilding.com in a forum relating to propecia: The human body is a f-ing machine, it wants to work. Given the right fuel, and the time to adjust, it will correct itself.

I don't know how true that is, but I've taken it as an inspiration. Best of luck to everyone. I won't be back on here for at least a while, its best for my mindset to avoid these kind of sites. Once you form a plan to deal with this, I suggest you also withdraw from reading about it, and give your body time to recover as well. But I thought it was important to post something that works, because I don't think the doctors know much about post finesterade syndrome, and they seem hesitant to suggest anything without an official study coming out.
Title: Re: Propecia Horror Story and Recovery
Post by: PeakT on May 20, 2013, 05:52:13 am
Pking1986:

Hey, thanks for the story and I really that will give some guys out there some hope that they can partially - maybe fully in time - recover from this stuff.

One caution:  I'm not sure why you're taking iron - especially when eating red meat - but you should read up on what it does to the brain and heart.  You don't want to trade one issue for another imo.

Btw, you brought up an interesting point that troubles me sometimes:

The human body is SO complex and I think guys get overwhelmed when they start studying it.  I think that is kind of what you were saying.  "Am I doing A, B and C?"  "Am I not doing D, E and F?"  It can get overwhelming to remember all the "rules".

So I have thought to myself:  should I water down the site and just give more short pat answers?

My response is that these are things that should have been taught in school and learned over the years of our life.  The real reason that it is so stressful imo is simply that we all of a sudden find ourselves in a crash program on nutrition, exercise, etc. and this causes stress.  It's not really the material but just the shortened time frame.

So, if we can just relax, take a deep breath, and just realize that this will take 3-6 months to learn and begin to integrate.  It's just that when it comes to our sex lives we feel so desperate and want answers by Friday night.  This is what really causes the stress imo.  And that's just my two cents...
Title: Re: Propecia Horror Story and Recovery
Post by: pking1986 on May 20, 2013, 08:46:55 pm
I misspoke, it was zinc, not iron. 15 mg of zinc in an iron-free multivitamin, which the urologist said was fine, though he was skeptical of vitamins doing anything at all, good or bad. 
Title: Re: Propecia Horror Story and Recovery
Post by: PeakT on May 20, 2013, 09:27:09 pm
I misspoke, it was zinc, not iron. 15 mg of zinc in an iron-free multivitamin, which the urologist said was fine, though he was skeptical of vitamins doing anything at all, good or bad.

He's right pretty much to be honest.  The studies on a variety of supplements and minerals have not done real well, but that's a big subject.  If you have specific q's, start another thread on the topic you're int'd in.

I cover the pros and cons of zinc here:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/zinc_zma

Let me tell what has done well in study after study and will help your sex life tremendously:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Fruit_Vegetables_Benefits

(Try to go organic if at all possible.)
Title: Re: Propecia Horror Story and Recovery
Post by: kellopgeorge on August 27, 2015, 11:42:12 pm
I keep reading recovery stories about guys recovering from PFS with just lots of weight training, sprints and eating healthy. I am quitting my job within the next month or two. I am currently on TRT, but I hope to drop off of this, and just try weight training, getting lots of sleep and raising my T naturally. I will have 6 months before I need to get another job. I hope this routine will help me recover my health. If it doesn't, when it comes time to get another job I'll probably need to go on TRT for life. I don't want to have to do that, but it may be a necessity.