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General Category => Testosterone, Hormones and General Men's Health => Topic started by: rhodesian on September 05, 2013, 03:28:00 pm

Title: Best form of boron?
Post by: rhodesian on September 05, 2013, 03:28:00 pm
Hello everyone,

I was wondering if there´s any "best" or "ideal" form of boron... Is calcium fructoborate better absorbed than the other forms?

By the way: what dosages have achieved -for you- the expected results (increased T, low estradiol)? 3 mg daily? 6 mg? 10 mg?

Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: Best form of boron?
Post by: PeakT on September 05, 2013, 04:42:11 pm
Hello everyone,

I was wondering if there´s any "best" or "ideal" form of boron... Is calcium fructoborate better absorbed than the other forms?

By the way: what dosages have achieved -for you- the expected results (increased T, low estradiol)? 3 mg daily? 6 mg? 10 mg?

Thanks in advance!

I haven't had a chance to research it.  Can you let us know if you find out the answers to the above?
Title: Re: Best form of boron?
Post by: rhodesian on September 05, 2013, 05:03:07 pm
From what I researched so far, I would consider Swanson chelated formula as the best option, being the only supplement that includes boron provided by Albion, so I think its absorption should be one of the best...

The other option I am considering is in the form of Calcium Fructoborate... One interesting option is Phyto-Boron of Vibrant Health, although I'm not sure if it´s worth the money (MUCH more expensive than the Swanson alternative)...

Regarding the so popular presentations with "triple-Boron", they don´t seem attractive to me because they include forms that we already know don´t work so well in terms of absorption (aspartate, citrate)...
Title: Re: Best form of boron?
Post by: PeakT on September 05, 2013, 06:09:49 pm
Noted.  Soil depletion sure causes a lot of issues, eh?

I guess you don't want to consume "boron isolate".
Title: Re: Best form of boron?
Post by: rhodesian on September 05, 2013, 06:27:56 pm
What do you mean with "boron isolate"?
Title: Re: Best form of boron?
Post by: PeakT on September 05, 2013, 07:17:01 pm
What do you mean with "boron isolate"?

Disregard. 
Title: Re: Best form of boron?
Post by: rhodesian on September 05, 2013, 07:46:41 pm
 ???
Title: Re: Best form of boron?
Post by: EH on September 10, 2013, 05:17:04 am
Boron is a mineral that I have studied pretty closely.  It has some preliminary studies showing effects on SHBG (lowering), free testosterone (raising), osteoporosis, and arthritis.

I have used the calcium borogluconate from NOW foods (3mg) and verified it's absorption via hair testing analysis (which is a rough, cheap and easy way to test absorption since hair is an excretory tissue).  I also dabbled with the ionic solution from ConcenTrace, but did not verify it's absorption unfortunately (it ended up in my compost instead).

I currently use (and this is controversial) boric acid powder as the supplement to my multivitamin.  I blend about 10mg into my multivitamin drink a couple times per week.  I use boric acid because it is a form found in nature (sea water, plants, fruits).  The only question with boric acid is purity.  It is by far the cheapest form of boron available as one bottle will last a couple lifetimes.

I ordered another hair test kit this week, and will report on the values when they are available (end of Sept probably).  Hair testing is also controversial but I can say in my experience that there were 3 specific minerals I supplemented (magnesium, iodine, boron) and amazingly all of them showed very high percentile results versus the other essential minerals (calcium, etc).  That is evidence of my body absorbing each of those minerals and excreting them in the hair.  The subsequent hair test (after stopping the supplements) did not show high percentile results.
Title: Re: Best form of boron?
Post by: PeakT on September 10, 2013, 06:25:48 am
Boron is a mineral that I have studied pretty closely.  It has some preliminary studies showing effects on SHBG (lowering), free testosterone (raising), osteoporosis, and arthritis.

I have used the calcium borogluconate from NOW foods (3mg) and verified it's absorption via hair testing analysis (which is a rough, cheap and easy way to test absorption since hair is an excretory tissue).  I also dabbled with the ionic solution from ConcenTrace, but did not verify it's absorption unfortunately (it ended up in my compost instead).

I currently use (and this is controversial) boric acid powder as the supplement to my multivitamin.  I blend about 10mg into my multivitamin drink a couple times per week.  I use boric acid because it is a form found in nature (sea water, plants, fruits).  The only question with boric acid is purity.  It is by far the cheapest form of boron available as one bottle will last a couple lifetimes.

I ordered another hair test kit this week, and will report on the values when they are available (end of Sept probably).  Hair testing is also controversial but I can say in my experience that there were 3 specific minerals I supplemented (magnesium, iodine, boron) and amazingly all of them showed very high percentile results versus the other essential minerals (calcium, etc).  That is evidence of my body absorbing each of those minerals and excreting them in the hair.  The subsequent hair test (after stopping the supplements) did not show high percentile results.

Okay, now that is interesting.  I did some rough calculations and found the numbers here:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/What_Is_Concentrace

If I am right, then you'd get about a mg of ionic boron in Concentrace, which is definitely something to take noet of.  The magnesium levels are also respectable, especially since they are ionic.  But the rest all look like very small doses.
Title: Re: Best form of boron?
Post by: rhodesian on September 10, 2013, 01:17:59 pm
EH,

Interesting your comment...

A few months ago I tried something similar but with borax, dissolving about 1 gram per liter of water, and taking about 1,5 liters of that water daily...

I remember as if it were yesterday the second day after starting with this mixture... I felt my libido went through the roof... But the point of being uncomfortable: I had erections at inopportune times... It was really something to remember... But after those two days, the effect diminished...

I then thought of cycling, resting a week and starting over, but it was not the same... I´ve never had that feeling again, not even close... Probably that experience happens only when one is boron deficient...

After a couple of weeks I began to think seriously whether the borax was the best way to incorporate boron, since it's very difficult to measure how much we are really incorporating... Apparently, at that time, I was consuming about ˇ150 mg of boron a day! Because according to what I have researched, the borax contains 10-11% of boron ...

That's why now I'm looking for a safer way to supplement it... And I´m thinking about ordering Calcium Fructoborate, as it seems to be the best form of boron available these days...

What I suggest you, EH, is to neutralize the acid in the boric acid with equal amount of baking soda, so to get a better pH and not mess with your pH balance...
Title: Re: Best form of boron?
Post by: EH on September 10, 2013, 04:29:12 pm
Rhodesian, I had a similar experience with the very first few times I took the calcium borogluconate capsules from NOW foods.  I also had the diminishing effect in subsequent uses.  Whenever I experience something like this (it happened with Nettle Root Extract as well) it always makes me think it could just be the placebo effect.  It is either that or the body getting quickly acclimated to the new substance.  Either way, it is always disappointing when the effect wears off so quickly.

As far as pH is concerned, 10 mg is such a small amount, and I mix it with other nutrients into a glass of orange juice and blend it up, so by the end of it the pH is definitely not noticeable as OJ is already very acidic.

I'll be curious to hear your experience with calcium fructoborate.  I will have my hair test results soon enough to know whether the boric acid was absorbed or not; however, like you mentioned, I haven't noticed any of the good sexual effects from boron since the very first time I took it.
Title: Re: Best form of boron?
Post by: PeakT on September 10, 2013, 05:46:39 pm
Rhodesian, I had a similar experience with the very first few times I took the calcium borogluconate capsules from NOW foods.  I also had the diminishing effect in subsequent uses.  Whenever I experience something like this (it happened with Nettle Root Extract as well) it always makes me think it could just be the placebo effect.  It is either that or the body getting quickly acclimated to the new substance.  Either way, it is always disappointing when the effect wears off so quickly.


Some supplements just seem to work this way.  Phosphatidylserine is another one that men say really makes a difference for a day or two and then no noticeable effect thereafter.
Title: INTERESTING STUDY ABOUT CALCIUM FRUCTOBORATE
Post by: rhodesian on September 10, 2013, 05:51:28 pm
Study Title:
Vitamin D/ Steroid Hormone Homeostasis and Calcium Fructoborate Supplementation
Study Abstract:

The purpose of this study was to investigate the relationship between Calcium Fructoborate (FruiteX-B) and Vitamin D. This study also looked at the effects of Calcium Fructoborate on hormones such as DHEA and Testosterone. 13 vitamin D deficient participants were tested for levels of vitamin D, DHEA, and testosterone in the blood. After taking 6mg or Boron in the form of Calcium Fructoborate, for 60 days the participants’ blood was tested again. The average increase in vitamin D levels was 19.6%. DHEA and testosterone were also increased 56% and 29.5% respectively.

FruiteX-B increased Vitamin D 19.6%, DHEA 56%, and Free Testosterone 29.5%.  One male participant had an increase of 50% in testosterone.  There was shown to be a relationship between FruiteX-B and hormone balance.
Study Information:

Natasha Miljkovic Vitamin D/ Steroid Hormone Homeostasis and Calcium Fructoborate Supplementation   2002 March 
Department of Orthopedic Medicine at the University of Novi Sad
Title: Re: INTERESTING STUDY ABOUT CALCIUM FRUCTOBORATE
Post by: PeakT on September 10, 2013, 07:32:00 pm
Study Title:
Vitamin D/ Steroid Hormone Homeostasis and Calcium Fructoborate Supplementation
Study Abstract:

The purpose of this study was to investigate the relationship between Calcium Fructoborate (FruiteX-B) and Vitamin D. This study also looked at the effects of Calcium Fructoborate on hormones such as DHEA and Testosterone. 13 vitamin D deficient participants were tested for levels of vitamin D, DHEA, and testosterone in the blood. After taking 6mg or Boron in the form of Calcium Fructoborate, for 60 days the participants’ blood was tested again. The average increase in vitamin D levels was 19.6%. DHEA and testosterone were also increased 56% and 29.5% respectively.

FruiteX-B increased Vitamin D 19.6%, DHEA 56%, and Free Testosterone 29.5%.  One male participant had an increase of 50% in testosterone.  There was shown to be a relationship between FruiteX-B and hormone balance.
Study Information:

Natasha Miljkovic Vitamin D/ Steroid Hormone Homeostasis and Calcium Fructoborate Supplementation   2002 March 
Department of Orthopedic Medicine at the University of Novi Sad


Int'g.  I've got another one here (#1):

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Boron_Testosterone

I'm going to add the above in as well - thx!

It's odd though because I can find that study anywhere except here:

http://www.wellnessresources.com/studies/calcium_fructoborate_promotes_hormone_balance/
Title: Re: Best form of boron?
Post by: rhodesian on September 10, 2013, 08:43:55 pm
PeakT,

Here you are the full study (in .PDF): http://www.google.com.ar/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CDMQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bioimmersion.com%2Fdocs%2Ffructoborate_monograph.pdf&ei=FoQvUpTtFYrS9QS14YCgBg&usg=AFQjCNHuCXoVriD_zkcp-SNynnR3krTnhA&bvm=bv.51773540,d.dmg (http://www.google.com.ar/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CDMQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bioimmersion.com%2Fdocs%2Ffructoborate_monograph.pdf&ei=FoQvUpTtFYrS9QS14YCgBg&usg=AFQjCNHuCXoVriD_zkcp-SNynnR3krTnhA&bvm=bv.51773540,d.dmg)
Title: Re: Best form of boron?
Post by: PeakT on September 10, 2013, 09:01:28 pm
Nice!  Thx...
Title: Re: Best form of boron?
Post by: EH on September 10, 2013, 11:24:01 pm
I need to clarify my above statement regarding ConcenTrace.  By "I did not verify absorption" I mean I did not ever test the absorption for it because I didn't need to after calcium borogluconate was clearly absorbed. 
Title: Re: Best form of boron?
Post by: Tfan on November 10, 2014, 10:33:21 am
Rhodesian, I had a similar experience with the very first few times I took the calcium borogluconate capsules from NOW foods.  I also had the diminishing effect in subsequent uses.  Whenever I experience something like this (it happened with Nettle Root Extract as well) it always makes me think it could just be the placebo effect.  It is either that or the body getting quickly acclimated to the new substance.  Either way, it is always disappointing when the effect wears off so quickly.

As far as pH is concerned, 10 mg is such a small amount, and I mix it with other nutrients into a glass of orange juice and blend it up, so by the end of it the pH is definitely not noticeable as OJ is already very acidic.

I'll be curious to hear your experience with calcium fructoborate.  I will have my hair test results soon enough to know whether the boric acid was absorbed or not; however, like you mentioned, I haven't noticed any of the good sexual effects from boron since the very first time I took it.

Hope to revive Boron discussion... Any news on your experiences? Am considering this for T, Free T and Estrogen control after reading. Any differences observed in the forme? Calcium Fructoborate vs calcium borogluconate ?

Thks.
Title: Re: Best form of boron?
Post by: EH on November 11, 2014, 08:16:54 pm
Boron is a mineral that I have studied pretty closely.  It has some preliminary studies showing effects on SHBG (lowering), free testosterone (raising), osteoporosis, and arthritis.

I have used the calcium borogluconate from NOW foods (3mg) and verified it's absorption via hair testing analysis (which is a rough, cheap and easy way to test absorption since hair is an excretory tissue).  I also dabbled with the ionic solution from ConcenTrace, but did not verify it's absorption unfortunately (it ended up in my compost instead).

I currently use (and this is controversial) boric acid powder as the supplement to my multivitamin.  I blend about 10mg into my multivitamin drink a couple times per week.  I use boric acid because it is a form found in nature (sea water, plants, fruits).  The only question with boric acid is purity.  It is by far the cheapest form of boron available as one bottle will last a couple lifetimes.

I ordered another hair test kit this week, and will report on the values when they are available (end of Sept probably).  Hair testing is also controversial but I can say in my experience that there were 3 specific minerals I supplemented (magnesium, iodine, boron) and amazingly all of them showed very high percentile results versus the other essential minerals (calcium, etc).  That is evidence of my body absorbing each of those minerals and excreting them in the hair.  The subsequent hair test (after stopping the supplements) did not show high percentile results.

I have not done any further work into boron recently.  I do have a new set of hair test results due this week, so it'll give me an idea as to how much boron I am excreting in hair.  I am not currently supplementing with boron.  Instead, I am planning on adding it to my garden for next year (via boric acid) and hoping that will cover some of my needs in a natural way.

I had no success in raising testosterone or free testosterone by ingesting boric acid.
Title: Re: Best form of boron?
Post by: EH on April 20, 2016, 01:48:08 am
I recently re-started the Now Foods boron supplement (calcium borogluconate).  I have been taking 6mg per day (2 capsules) for about a week now.  Again, just like the first time, I have noticed my sex drive increase notably.  I doubt the effect will persist but I will continue with the boron as my recent hair tests have shown that I am not getting enough boron in my diet, so I plan to supplement it going forward.  I will post my next set of hormone testing and see if there is any difference from recent baselines.
Title: Re: Best form of boron?
Post by: PeakT on April 20, 2016, 03:03:20 am
I recently re-started the Now Foods boron supplement (calcium borogluconate).  I have been taking 6mg per day (2 capsules) for about a week now.  Again, just like the first time, I have noticed my sex drive increase notably.  I doubt the effect will persist but I will continue with the boron as my recent hair tests have shown that I am not getting enough boron in my diet, so I plan to supplement it going forward.  I will post my next set of hormone testing and see if there is any difference from recent baselines.

Let us know how it goes.

I've got some boron and haven't taken it because I want to make one change at a time.  So I'm curious how thing will go for you!
Title: Re: Best form of boron?
Post by: DXHypo on April 27, 2016, 03:11:04 pm
You guys taking Boron read the same thing I keep seeing online- boron raises estrogen?!  I picked some Tri-boron up after reading this thread but after the fact started researching it more and read about the estrogen.  Just wondered if it's something to be too concerned about as my E2 is high right now although I have recently started compounded anastrozole/DIM through Defy.
Title: Re: Best form of boron?
Post by: PeakT on April 27, 2016, 06:19:25 pm
You guys taking Boron read the same thing I keep seeing online- boron raises estrogen?!  I picked some Tri-boron up after reading this thread but after the fact started researching it more and read about the estrogen.  Just wondered if it's something to be too concerned about as my E2 is high right now although I have recently started compounded anastrozole/DIM through Defy.

That's just one study.  See #7 here:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Boron_Testosterone

Best to measure yourself before and after imo.
Title: Re: Best form of boron?
Post by: bobor on September 30, 2016, 03:07:48 am
Realize this is an older post but I ve been looking at boron supplements and came across this thread:

The most common and easily accessible form of boron to me is from Now supplements which has boron in the form of borogluconate.

A quick search of the Internet show that this form is generally used on livestock and veterinary purposes. One site even indicates that it is toxic to humans http://www.healthcentral.com/acid-reflux/c/question/59501/35304/

Is there any concern that borogluconate is a form of boron that we should be avoiding and instead try to get other types (e.g fructoborate)?

Title: Re: Best form of boron?
Post by: PeakT on September 30, 2016, 05:12:03 am
I recently re-started the Now Foods boron supplement (calcium borogluconate).  I have been taking 6mg per day (2 capsules) for about a week now.  Again, just like the first time, I have noticed my sex drive increase notably.  I doubt the effect will persist but I will continue with the boron as my recent hair tests have shown that I am not getting enough boron in my diet, so I plan to supplement it going forward.  I will post my next set of hormone testing and see if there is any difference from recent baselines.

Will you let us know if it keeps going?

Hey, are you low in quite a few nutrients on your hair test?
Title: Re: Best form of boron?
Post by: EH on October 01, 2016, 04:01:53 pm
I stopped boron about a month ago.  It seems to have a 1-2 week boost for my sex drive.  The problem is that it makes me very irritable.  There is no doubt it is the boron as I have tested it many times, both alone and in combination with other supplements.  So far, all of the purported testosterone boosting supplements that I have tried have caused a similar aggression/irritability.
Title: Re: Best form of boron?
Post by: PeakT on October 02, 2016, 12:09:50 am
I stopped boron about a month ago.  It seems to have a 1-2 week boost for my sex drive.  The problem is that it makes me very irritable.  There is no doubt it is the boron as I have tested it many times, both alone and in combination with other supplements.  So far, all of the purported testosterone boosting supplements that I have tried have caused a similar aggression/irritability.

I just quit it myself. I checked my hair test results and found out that I was actually high last time. Not too smart I know...
Title: Re: Best form of boron?
Post by: Tropicaldaze on October 05, 2016, 11:33:53 am
EH, et al,

I experienced both the short lived increase in libido/erectile function using Swanson Triple Boron Complex when I used it a few years ago and also experienced  irritability. Have used it on and off when I get frustrated by my situation and it does kick things up but the irritability/hyper feeling also appears.  I also got that using a PDE-5 inhibitor that my uro prescribed.  Actually went into a moderate manic episode.  With bipolar illness, I have to be ever so careful, so it's trading off keeping my mood under control versus  now and then or no libido/erectile function.  Sigh.

There's a video of a lecture on YouTube given at a dental convention by Dr. Jorge Flechas M.D. of Hendersonville, NC, who is an expert on boron.  Quite informative.
Title: Re: Best form of boron?
Post by: ghce on October 05, 2016, 11:47:08 pm
EH, et al,

I experienced both the short lived increase in libido/erectile function using Swanson Triple Boron Complex when I used it a few years ago and also experienced  irritability. Have used it on and off when I get frustrated by my situation and it does kick things up but the irritability/hyper feeling also appears.  I also got that using a PDE-5 inhibitor that my uro prescribed.  Actually went into a moderate manic episode.  With bipolar illness, I have to be ever so careful, so it's trading off keeping my mood under control versus  now and then or no libido/erectile function.  Sigh.

There's a video of a lecture on YouTube given at a dental convention by Dr. Jorge Flechas M.D. of Hendersonville, NC, who is an expert on boron.  Quite informative.

Watched the video, interesting to see his thoughts at the end of the video  regarding dosage levels in comparison to what is available via the usual supplement companies which is 3 mg as opposed to his view of 30 to 75mg per day
Title: Re: Best form of boron?
Post by: EH on October 06, 2016, 12:25:16 am
Watched the video, interesting to see his thoughts at the end of the video  regarding dosage levels in comparison to what is available via the usual supplement companies which is 3 mg as opposed to his view of 30 to 75mg per day

I would probably end up in jail if I took 75mg in one day.  I can't fathom how aggressive/irritable I might become.  It's "good" to hear that other people have the irritable effect as well, at least I know it's not just me.  I think I'll just stick to drinking fresh-squeezed apple juice and trying to get my boron from that for now.  I have tried boric acid, calcium borogluconate, and a chelated boron product.  I never tried Borax.
Title: Re: Best form of boron?
Post by: ghce on October 06, 2016, 10:40:30 am
today I ordered the Calcium Borogluconate so will see how that goes
Title: Re: Best form of boron?
Post by: Tropicaldaze on October 06, 2016, 04:55:16 pm
I meant to add that raisins, preferably organic, contain a significant amount of boron, as do organic apples.  I've read that the French naturally get up to 36 mg daily from their food.  Dr. Flechas stated in his video that a liter of water in Turkey contains 60 mg, I believe, of naturally occurring boron, which I interpret to mean that this is the daily conusmption and in Israel people consume via diet and water, 10-30 mg, daily.  Like selenium and iodine, industrial agriculture has depleted or reduced trace minerals that are important for physical, endocrine and psychological/neurological functioning.
Title: Re: Best form of boron?
Post by: bobor on October 07, 2016, 02:44:40 am
I meant to add that raisins, preferably organic, contain a significant amount of boron, as do organic apples.  I've read that the French naturally get up to 36 mg daily from their food.  Dr. Flechas stated in his video that a liter of water in Turkey contains 60 mg, I believe, of naturally occurring boron, which I interpret to mean that this is the daily conusmption and in Israel people consume via diet and water, 10-30 mg, daily.  Like selenium and iodine, industrial agriculture has depleted or reduced trace minerals that are important for physical, endocrine and psychological/neurological functioning.

Thanks for the info on food sources. Isn't 100 grams of raisins quite bit of raisins though? This article actually says taking 1-2 cups of raisins per day just to get 3mg!?  :o https://www.anabolicmen.com/foods-high-in-boron/

I've been taking 3mg of boron per day from Move Free Ultra in the form of boron glycinate for about two weeks now.

Not sure if it's placebo or coincidence but there's been a noticeable improvement in my mental clarity and alertness. No feelings of irritability but there's increased motivation/assertiveness.

Perhaps irritability comes with higher doses?

I'm using Move free ultra only because of the form of boron in it (not due to arthritis). Per my earlier post, I'm still a little weary of any toxicity from borogluconate since it seems this form is often used in veterinary/livestock purposes...although the Move Free stuff is a lot more expensive than Boron from Now brands
Title: Re: Best form of boron?
Post by: ghce on October 07, 2016, 04:48:12 am
I have opted for the Now  brand ( Calcium Borogluconate ) simply because so many reviews mentioned it as being effective as opposed to the 3 way pill supplements which may well be as effective, that and the pack size is 250 tabs and I think I will opt for a dosage rate of 9 mg per day, just a purchasing practicality.

Hopefully the motivation and assertiveness will improve too but not the aggression. I had occasion whilst still on Andriol earlier on this year in March to suffer from a large dose of road rage and was at the point of getting out of my car and thumping some stupid twit, very uncharacteristic of me T fueled rage! :D
Title: Re: Best form of boron?
Post by: HoboRed on October 07, 2016, 06:23:20 am
I have experience taking Boron (as Caclium Borogluconate) over the past 9 months. I am trying to fix my health, severe malnutrition, and I have Hair Test results showing my levels rise and fall over this 9 month time.  Usually I took just 3mg a day...skipping some days...but some days I took 9mg and that is when I experienced Agressiveness / Irritability HOWEVER sometimes Increased Concentration and the ability to breathe VERY Deeply has also been experienced. Increased lung capacity. Slightly increased my Strentgh. Opened my sinus'.  (Never had increased libido, at least any more than usual)

The negative effects of Boron, like Irritability, have occured 75% more often for me than the positive, better focus/ better breathing. From what I've noticed...it definatly, most postiviely, has something to do with how Boron depletes...and also helps retain other Vitamins and Minerals in the body.  For example, my level of Zinc has recently dropped very low on my Hair Test...and recently Boron has suddenly started to cause a Rash on my knuckles / bony areas.

I am currently on a very strict, specific diet to help correct my malnutrition. I've made HUGE improvements in 9 months. My copper, iron, magnesium, potassium, and manganese are back to normal...yet my Calcium is still very low because my Sodium is too high....eating too much salt has been dissolving my bone.  Therefore, I take other vitamins and minerals besides Boron, as recommend by the Hair Test people, to help lower my Sodium and raise Calcium. I am trying to figure out which of these minerals and vitamins that I am currently taking are causing the positive effects, or at least prevent the negative effects of Boron.

For the past 4 months my Diet has mostly been
Vitamin B6 100mg - 3x Daily
Magnesium 125mg - 2x Daily
Copper 2mg           1x Daily
Increased Calcium Intake (Milk, Cheese, Sardines, and Calcium Citrate supplement 1x Daily)
Increased intake of foods high in Lysine, Arigine, Histidine (Beans, Lentils)
Increase Potassium Intake (Bananas - Potatoes)
Increase Copper Intake (Liver)
Eat lots of eggs ( for Iron and Amino Acids)

**** SOON I will be conducting a "process of elemination" experiment over the coming days, in attempt to figure out WHAT is causing these "Boron Irritability" symptoms.  What perplexes me is...Coffee is high in Boron (about 1/2 mg Boron per medium-strong cup) and I drink at least 2 strong cups of Coffee every day...and it NEVER causes these kind of "high estrogen" irritability symptoms like when I take Calcium Borogluconate. It makes me act like a "Spoiled, Sarcastic A-Hole" when I don't get my way over the stupidest things, that normally would not bother me at all.  Coffee...Raisins...never cause any of these symptoms.  However, I have not eaten 9mg of Boron worth of Raisins to see if they cause High Concentration / Deep Breating yet either.   I will be testing this very soon.

This alone is making me believe that natural boron (Food Source) is better than supplemental Boron.  Food which contains high Boron, also contains all the other co-factors and enzymes that are probably necessary to metabolize said Boron without side effects. Maybe, idk yet.


I have a few theories about how to prevent Boron "Irritability" and get positive effects like Better Focus and Strength. 


1)  Boron depletes Vitamin B6.    I've been currently diagnosed with a B6 deficiency so I take extra B6 when I supplement Boron.  One symptom of B6 deficiency is Irritability.  I currently take 100mg B6 twice a day, as recommended by my Hair Test nutrition people. (According to the Hair Test people, ANY mineral you take, and some vitamins, all require vitamin B6 in some way to metabolize properly.  Taking too many supplements without enough B6 can cause a HUGE mineral imbalance.  The biggest role of Vitamin B6 in the body is to keep all Minerals in balance, preventing 1 mineral from dominitang another, so that proper ratios are maintained)

2)  Some studies say that Boron "metabolizes" Estrogen. Some say it increases Estrogen direclty, some say it increases Testosterone.  Personally...for me...it depends on my other Mineral Levels whether it gives me Stregnth or makes me irritable.  I've noticed that when I take Boron with Calicum Rich Foods....I get more of the "Strength" effect.  It makes me stand up straighter....my joints feel more fluid as well.  When I take Boron and forget my daily Calcium (I currently have a Calcium and Magnesium deficiency)  I get more irritable. 

3)  Boron metabolizes Copper, which in turn uses up Zinc.  Copper has an effect on mood when Zinc is low or a deficiency in Amino Acids used by copper are deficient.   Boron and Copper are (Right Brain) minerals that are known to increase creativity.  My recent Hair Test shows my Copper has gone up, yet not into the High Range.

4)  Boron effects Calcium and Magnesium metabolism. Both Calcium and Magnesium are "sedative" minerals, which cause irritibilty when they become out-of-balance.  Taking Boron without adequate Calcium and/or Magnesium could cause the irritability.  I am currently Calcium and Zinc deficient.

*** Since I started taking Vitamin D3 again about 4 weeks ago, I've noticed the irritiblilty from Boron happens at lower doses, even though my Boron is Low.  It used to take at least 6mg of Boron, 2 days in a row or longer, to cause the Irritability, but after I started Vitamin D3 again I getting Irritable at just 3mg.  NOTE: I have not been diagnosed with Low Vitamin D. I simply take it because I am trying to increase my Calcium levels. 

I don't have the Source, but I remember reading that Boron has an effect on Vitamin D3 metabolism as well. Right now I'm taking about 5 different minerals/vitamins daily so Its hard to pinpoint which is helping or causing the Boron "irritability".  In my attempt to increase my Calcium levels, I'll be messing with these minerals (Boron, Calcium, Magnesium, Vitamin D3 and Vitamin B6) probably for the next 2 months.

My recent Hair Test has also revealed a "Zinc" deficiency....so that might explain why I don't get any increase in Libido when I take Boron.


EDIT: 

I forgot to mention....on the occassions when Boron has caused "irritability"....anytime the symptoms persisted longer than 48 hours I would take extra vitamin B6....DIM (estrogen metabolizer) and increase my Calcium intake.  The irritability would always dissappear by the next day.   I also drink at least 3/4 gallon of water a day, because of my recent High Sodium.

Not sure if the DIM or B6 or Calcium is helping....so I've decided to try taking Boron and DIM at the same time, and see if the Irritability symptoms appear or not.  Then try again with other minerals...taking a 3 day break in between with NO Boron. 
Title: Re: Best form of boron?
Post by: Cataceous on October 07, 2016, 12:04:27 pm
...
Hopefully the motivation and assertiveness will improve too but not the aggression. I had occasion whilst still on Andriol earlier on this year in March to suffer from a large dose of road rage and was at the point of getting out of my car and thumping some stupid twit, very uncharacteristic of me T fueled rage! :D

This paper (http://www.ima.org.il/FilesUpload/IMAJ/0/54/27288.pdf) links aggressive behavior to higher testosterone and lower serotonin. It may be possible to address low serotonin with l-tryptophan supplementation. 5-HTP might be more effective but it's also riskier in my view.
Title: Re: Best form of boron?
Post by: HoboRed on October 07, 2016, 02:45:26 pm
5-HTP makes my throat swell and sometimes feels like im going to vomit.  Never had any problems with L-Tryptophan.

This is making me think now.  Last month I had to take L-Dopa because my Manganese got too high on a recent Hair Test.  Taking L-Dopa is a common cure for Manganese toxicity because Dopamine depletes peripheral Manganese.   

I am starting to wonder now, if the "Irritibility" that I get lately after taking Boron is from Low Serotonin.  Too much Dopamine will begin to dominate Serotonin, and I have not been eating much Turkey lately or taking L-Tryptophan with my L-Dopa. Silly me, I usually keep my neuro's in balance.

I am going to have to get some L-Tryptophan at GNC.   I would eat some turkey but I like supplements when playing the "is this my cure" game, because the results are more immediate.
 
Title: Re: Best form of boron?
Post by: Boxcar on October 09, 2016, 06:49:09 pm
...
Hopefully the motivation and assertiveness will improve too but not the aggression. I had occasion whilst still on Andriol earlier on this year in March to suffer from a large dose of road rage and was at the point of getting out of my car and thumping some stupid twit, very uncharacteristic of me T fueled rage! :D

This paper (http://www.ima.org.il/FilesUpload/IMAJ/0/54/27288.pdf) links aggressive behavior to higher testosterone and lower serotonin. It may be possible to address low serotonin with l-tryptophan supplementation. 5-HTP might be more effective but it's also riskier in my view.

I have found that fish oil boosts serotonin.
Title: Re: Best form of boron?
Post by: wellshii on February 14, 2017, 03:07:32 am
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21129941

Didnt specify which type.
Honestly though, I am sure any will do especially if deficient.
Title: Re: Best form of boron?
Post by: PeakT on February 14, 2017, 06:07:14 pm
I have experience taking Boron (as Caclium Borogluconate) over the past 9 months. I am trying to fix my health, severe malnutrition, and I have Hair Test results showing my levels rise and fall over this 9 month time.  Usually I took just 3mg a day...skipping some days...but some days I took 9mg and that is when I experienced Agressiveness / Irritability HOWEVER sometimes Increased Concentration and the ability to breathe VERY Deeply has also been experienced. Increased lung capacity. Slightly increased my Strentgh. Opened my sinus'.  (Never had increased libido, at least any more than usual)

The negative effects of Boron, like Irritability, have occured 75% more often for me than the positive, better focus/ better breathing. From what I've noticed...it definatly, most postiviely, has something to do with how Boron depletes...and also helps retain other Vitamins and Minerals in the body.  For example, my level of Zinc has recently dropped very low on my Hair Test...and recently Boron has suddenly started to cause a Rash on my knuckles / bony areas.

I am currently on a very strict, specific diet to help correct my malnutrition. I've made HUGE improvements in 9 months. My copper, iron, magnesium, potassium, and manganese are back to normal...yet my Calcium is still very low because my Sodium is too high....eating too much salt has been dissolving my bone.  Therefore, I take other vitamins and minerals besides Boron, as recommend by the Hair Test people, to help lower my Sodium and raise Calcium. I am trying to figure out which of these minerals and vitamins that I am currently taking are causing the positive effects, or at least prevent the negative effects of Boron.

For the past 4 months my Diet has mostly been
Vitamin B6 100mg - 3x Daily
Magnesium 125mg - 2x Daily
Copper 2mg           1x Daily
Increased Calcium Intake (Milk, Cheese, Sardines, and Calcium Citrate supplement 1x Daily)
Increased intake of foods high in Lysine, Arigine, Histidine (Beans, Lentils)
Increase Potassium Intake (Bananas - Potatoes)
Increase Copper Intake (Liver)
Eat lots of eggs ( for Iron and Amino Acids)

**** SOON I will be conducting a "process of elemination" experiment over the coming days, in attempt to figure out WHAT is causing these "Boron Irritability" symptoms.  What perplexes me is...Coffee is high in Boron (about 1/2 mg Boron per medium-strong cup) and I drink at least 2 strong cups of Coffee every day...and it NEVER causes these kind of "high estrogen" irritability symptoms like when I take Calcium Borogluconate. It makes me act like a "Spoiled, Sarcastic A-Hole" when I don't get my way over the stupidest things, that normally would not bother me at all.  Coffee...Raisins...never cause any of these symptoms.  However, I have not eaten 9mg of Boron worth of Raisins to see if they cause High Concentration / Deep Breating yet either.   I will be testing this very soon.

This alone is making me believe that natural boron (Food Source) is better than supplemental Boron.  Food which contains high Boron, also contains all the other co-factors and enzymes that are probably necessary to metabolize said Boron without side effects. Maybe, idk yet.


I have a few theories about how to prevent Boron "Irritability" and get positive effects like Better Focus and Strength. 


1)  Boron depletes Vitamin B6.    I've been currently diagnosed with a B6 deficiency so I take extra B6 when I supplement Boron.  One symptom of B6 deficiency is Irritability.  I currently take 100mg B6 twice a day, as recommended by my Hair Test nutrition people. (According to the Hair Test people, ANY mineral you take, and some vitamins, all require vitamin B6 in some way to metabolize properly.  Taking too many supplements without enough B6 can cause a HUGE mineral imbalance.  The biggest role of Vitamin B6 in the body is to keep all Minerals in balance, preventing 1 mineral from dominitang another, so that proper ratios are maintained)

2)  Some studies say that Boron "metabolizes" Estrogen. Some say it increases Estrogen direclty, some say it increases Testosterone.  Personally...for me...it depends on my other Mineral Levels whether it gives me Stregnth or makes me irritable.  I've noticed that when I take Boron with Calicum Rich Foods....I get more of the "Strength" effect.  It makes me stand up straighter....my joints feel more fluid as well.  When I take Boron and forget my daily Calcium (I currently have a Calcium and Magnesium deficiency)  I get more irritable. 

3)  Boron metabolizes Copper, which in turn uses up Zinc.  Copper has an effect on mood when Zinc is low or a deficiency in Amino Acids used by copper are deficient.   Boron and Copper are (Right Brain) minerals that are known to increase creativity.  My recent Hair Test shows my Copper has gone up, yet not into the High Range.

4)  Boron effects Calcium and Magnesium metabolism. Both Calcium and Magnesium are "sedative" minerals, which cause irritibilty when they become out-of-balance.  Taking Boron without adequate Calcium and/or Magnesium could cause the irritability.  I am currently Calcium and Zinc deficient.

*** Since I started taking Vitamin D3 again about 4 weeks ago, I've noticed the irritiblilty from Boron happens at lower doses, even though my Boron is Low.  It used to take at least 6mg of Boron, 2 days in a row or longer, to cause the Irritability, but after I started Vitamin D3 again I getting Irritable at just 3mg.  NOTE: I have not been diagnosed with Low Vitamin D. I simply take it because I am trying to increase my Calcium levels. 

I don't have the Source, but I remember reading that Boron has an effect on Vitamin D3 metabolism as well. Right now I'm taking about 5 different minerals/vitamins daily so Its hard to pinpoint which is helping or causing the Boron "irritability".  In my attempt to increase my Calcium levels, I'll be messing with these minerals (Boron, Calcium, Magnesium, Vitamin D3 and Vitamin B6) probably for the next 2 months.

My recent Hair Test has also revealed a "Zinc" deficiency....so that might explain why I don't get any increase in Libido when I take Boron.


EDIT: 

I forgot to mention....on the occassions when Boron has caused "irritability"....anytime the symptoms persisted longer than 48 hours I would take extra vitamin B6....DIM (estrogen metabolizer) and increase my Calcium intake.  The irritability would always dissappear by the next day.   I also drink at least 3/4 gallon of water a day, because of my recent High Sodium.

Not sure if the DIM or B6 or Calcium is helping....so I've decided to try taking Boron and DIM at the same time, and see if the Irritability symptoms appear or not.  Then try again with other minerals...taking a 3 day break in between with NO Boron.

Interesting.  Have to look at this more.  Thx HoboRed showing that boron, like everything else, has a range.