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General Category => Testosterone, Hormones and General Men's Health => Topic started by: JustAskin on June 05, 2012, 04:40:37 pm

Title: Dr. Eugene Shippen Visit
Post by: JustAskin on June 05, 2012, 04:40:37 pm
Here is the follow up from my visit to see Dr. Shippen.
First I had all my previous lab work sent to shippen.
Here is what my Testosterone level was before contacting shippen.=(296)
He sent  back a letter and a prescription for Clomid. (for 7 day stimulation test)
My results showed I had Secondary Hypogonadism.
My T had risen to 541, My E2=47, and DHEA was below the bottom of normal and D3 was low.
On May 30th I went to Pa. to meet with him, he spent over 2 hours going over all my test results and did a physical that included a prostate check.
He order the following meds.
HGC, Arimidex, and 25mg DHEA oral supplement.
I must have a followup blood test in 3 weeks for T,E2, and DHEA-S.
Then is 6 weeks a full blood workup for Endocrine testing.
He wants me to take D3 4000mg daily and drink Pomergranate juice plus Vit. C 1000mg.
He is very personable and is disappointed that the medical profession is still not taking this issue serious and that more doctors does not seem to even be interested in learning enough to help people.
Title: Re: Dr. Eugene Shippen Visit
Post by: PeakT on June 05, 2012, 05:05:33 pm
Two of the bigger internet names in HRT are Crisler and Shippen.  I'm certainly not advocating either of them and have no affiliations with either, nor do I want to recommend what doctor anyone decides to see. 

But for information purposes, here are a few threads with some info:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Favorites  (His book is on my list.)
https://www.peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=261.0 (FightLowT has been to Crisler I believe.)
Title: Re: Dr. Eugene Shippen Visit
Post by: Sam on January 20, 2013, 11:51:54 am
Long time ago on this post but very interested in an update on your results to date.  Also, any feedback on program costs going this direction.

Thanks,
Title: Re: Dr. Eugene Shippen Visit
Post by: PeakT on January 20, 2013, 11:55:03 pm
I moved this here in the hopes that JustAskin will give us an update.
Title: Re: Dr. Eugene Shippen Visit
Post by: JustAskin on January 21, 2013, 04:37:20 pm
Update 01/21/2013
Since I last posted in june, We found that HCG alone could not get and keep me above 500.
So we tried
 Testosterone gel, and found that I did not absorb it well enough to be used.

 Then we went with Injectable Test. Cypionate 200MG/ML  .2cc divided into 2 subQ injections weekly.
 With .1cc HCG (with B-12 in it) two times weekly subQ. and NO anastrozol.
 after 6 weeks we retested and found that my Estridol was at 61, he asked me to start back on anastrozole (arimidex) of .2mg 2 times a week.
 Retested 6 weeks later my E2 had dropped to 35, he backed the anastrozole down to .1 two times per wk.
That is where I am now and my last tests look like this.

Total T=821
Free T= calculate out to 2.66%
E2=25
SHGB = 27      (when I went to see him it was 56)
DHEAs= 388    (when I went to see him it was 23)
D3=51             (when I went to see him it was 28.8)
Hemoglobin=15
Hematocrit = 44
And all my other lipids and Cholestrol levels has improved a lot. and now I don't take lipitor any more.
The reason I put Hematocrit above is when on TRT it wil increase your red blood cell count, so when It get high I give blood, each time your give blood it will drop about 4 points.

I have always stayed in shape but noticed I had lost strength and muscle mass, and not being able to sustain an erection very well.

I am 63 I feel better now than I have in 30 years, have gained 8 pounds of muscle and lost 2 inches in my waste.
am almost as strong now as when I was in my mid 30's, Sex, yes, 3-4 times per wk. would be more but my wife said this is enough.

One word of advise, don't believe all E2 tests are equal, the best is LabCorp test#140244
I was doing Quest and they were showing me as being to high so I kept taking anastrozole an not feeling any better, I checked on allthingsmale forum and found most had used the one above and with this one was able to get correct reading and adj. to the proper level. (If I had know this it would have saved 2-3 month and money)

Is it worth it HELL YES!!!!!!
Title: Re: Dr. Eugene Shippen Visit
Post by: PeakT on January 21, 2013, 04:53:11 pm
Great info.

So question:  what boosted the DHEA so much and why were you so slow?  Did you get any commentary on that?

I am going to post your E2 lab commentary separately as I think it is so important.
Title: Re: Dr. Eugene Shippen Visit
Post by: JustAskin on January 21, 2013, 04:59:40 pm
Sorry I forgot to put this info.
DHEAS was raised from taking PureEncapsulations 25mg. DHEA (this is pharmacy grade)  and 100mg 7keto-DHEA
once dailyl and the D3 was from taking  PureEncapsulations 5000iu 5 x wk. summer and 7000iu 5 x wk in winter.

I got tested 4 times  Winter, spring, summer and fall. and found what level I was at and how much to take to keep me in the range I wanted to be. P.S. I had insomnia now I do not once I got my D3 level up.
Title: Re: Dr. Eugene Shippen Visit
Post by: PeakT on January 21, 2013, 07:30:23 pm
Sorry I forgot to put this info.
DHEAS was raised from taking PureEncapsulations 25mg. DHEA (this is pharmacy grade)  and 100mg 7keto-DHEA
once dailyl and the D3 was from taking  PureEncapsulations 5000iu 5 x wk. summer and 7000iu 5 x wk in winter.

I got tested 4 times  Winter, spring, summer and fall. and found what level I was at and how much to take to keep me in the range I wanted to be. P.S. I had insomnia now I do not once I got my D3 level up.

Did Shippen put you on the DHEA protocol above?
Title: Re: Dr. Eugene Shippen Visit
Post by: JustAskin on January 22, 2013, 09:19:26 pm
Yes
Title: Re: Dr. Eugene Shippen Visit
Post by: PeakT on January 26, 2013, 01:29:41 am
Have you seen this article?

http://www.drdebe.com/dhea-the-real-story.html

I haven't verifed the studies herein, but, if it's true, he presents an int'g case as to how and why one can get very low DHEA.

His theory is this:  don't just take DHEA but identify the root cause of stress and eliminate it.  He also emphasizes many of the standard stress reducers.  I've got a similar list here:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Mindfulness_Meditation
http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Progressive_Muscle_Relaxation
http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Relaxation_Response
http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Secular_Meditation
http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Stress_Management

Don't know if that applies, but I'm just throwing it out.  Don't forget that depression, lack of sleep, etc. can be stressors.

Now all of the above may not apply to everyone.  What if the adrenals are actually damaged for example?  But I'm just throwing it out as an interesting article...
Title: Re: Dr. Eugene Shippen Visit
Post by: Sam on January 26, 2013, 02:04:58 am
Good stuff,

I am leaning towards a life full of stress on my part.  Another area I want to dig in deeper is if childhood asthma and adult exercise induced asthma and all of the medications you take when you have it could contribute to the overall health of your hormone systems.
Title: Re: Dr. Eugene Shippen Visit
Post by: PeakT on January 26, 2013, 02:57:59 am
Good stuff,

I am leaning towards a life full of stress on my part.  Another area I want to dig in deeper is if childhood asthma and adult exercise induced asthma and all of the medications you take when you have it could contribute to the overall health of your hormone systems.

Imo you should focums on inflammation.  Many times asthma and allergies go away once you get inflammation under control:

Remember:  "Inflammation is the root of all evil."

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/inflammation
Title: Re: Dr. Eugene Shippen Visit
Post by: PeakT on March 14, 2015, 03:20:55 pm
JustAskin:

Love your HCG Daily thread:  http://www.peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=6760.0.

But I just happened to come across this older thread of yours where you were talking about your early days with HCG and other hormones.  I have a question for you:

How did you halve your SHBG?  Any idea?  That's pretty remarkable and a lot of guys around here struggle with that, so I'd love to get your take on it or perhaps even something Dr. Shippen said to you.
Title: Re: Dr. Eugene Shippen Visit
Post by: JustAskin on March 14, 2015, 03:56:26 pm
I halved my SHBG by taking enough T to get upper midrange, and controlling E2.  My SHBG is now about 4 points higher than E2 for near 2 years. 
In the beginning that meant taking  an AI sublingual Troche to get my E2 down. After getting where I needed to be and given time for my body to adapt, I now can control my E2 with Calcium-D-Glucarate and only use a .01 troche (prescribed by Dr. Shippen) if needed so far I have not needed any since October.

The biggest lesson I have learned is More is not better get just above midrange and micro adjust.

After going on Daily HCG I am going to cut back even more on my small E3D dose of Testosterone Cyp. so I will be around 700-800.
I sleep so much better at that range, and your DHT and E2 is much easier to control.
Title: Re: Dr. Eugene Shippen Visit
Post by: PeakT on March 14, 2015, 04:22:24 pm
I halved my SHBG by taking enough T to get upper midrange, and controlling E2.  My SHBG is now about 4 points higher than E2 for near 2 years. 
In the beginning that meant taking  an AI sublingual Troche to get my E2 down. After getting where I needed to be and given time for my body to adapt, I now can control my E2 with Calcium-D-Glucarate and only use a .01 troche (prescribed by Dr. Shippen) if needed so far I have not needed any since October.

The biggest lesson I have learned is More is not better get just above midrange and micro adjust.

After going on Daily HCG I am going to cut back even more on my small E3D dose of Testosterone Cyp. so I will be around 700-800.
I sleep so much better at that range, and your DHT and E2 is much easier to control.

Okay, wait though.  You must be doing something unique, because the typical guy on testosterone therapy around here will only drop his SHBG about 7 or 8 points post-HRT.  Yours dropped 20+ points.  I'm trying to figure out if it is some other supplement you are taking or what?  Of course, DHEA will drop SHBG, but not usually by that much.  Maybe it's the two in conjunction?

Are you taking anything else that might raise free testosterone and drop SHBG?
Title: Re: Dr. Eugene Shippen Visit
Post by: vvs1 on March 15, 2015, 05:52:20 am
Good info here.

At what point did you start feeling improvements? Was it after the initial injections or after the arimidex was added?

Did the DHEA and vitamin D offer any help before the injections were started?
Title: Re: Dr. Eugene Shippen Visit
Post by: Kierkegaard on March 15, 2015, 08:11:00 am
I halved my SHBG by taking enough T to get upper midrange, and controlling E2.  My SHBG is now about 4 points higher than E2 for near 2 years. 
In the beginning that meant taking  an AI sublingual Troche to get my E2 down. After getting where I needed to be and given time for my body to adapt, I now can control my E2 with Calcium-D-Glucarate and only use a .01 troche (prescribed by Dr. Shippen) if needed so far I have not needed any since October.

The biggest lesson I have learned is More is not better get just above midrange and micro adjust.

After going on Daily HCG I am going to cut back even more on my small E3D dose of Testosterone Cyp. so I will be around 700-800.
I sleep so much better at that range, and your DHT and E2 is much easier to control.

IIIIiiinnnnnnnnntteresting (especially that last part).
Title: Re: Dr. Eugene Shippen Visit
Post by: JustAskin on March 15, 2015, 01:33:31 pm
Dr. Shippen also was SURPRISED that my SHBG dropped that much, he said he had only seen that much of a drop a couple of times.

I take 25mg. each of DHEA and Pregnenolone daily,  vitamin D3  5000 iu.  5 days per week.

If you take any Thyroid meds.  T/3 will drive SHBG up quickly.
Title: Re: Dr. Eugene Shippen Visit
Post by: JustAskin on March 15, 2015, 02:17:26 pm
The Brand I use is Pure Encapsulations for the above.  Dr. Shippen put me on this brand, I tried others but they do not raise and maintain my levels like this does. It is pharmacy grade.
I keep my Vitamin D3 level between 50-60.
Title: Re: Dr. Eugene Shippen Visit
Post by: VinnAY on March 15, 2015, 03:12:24 pm
Question on DHEA: the oral variety, not backed by testing, always makes me a handful...feels like it spikes my E2; irritable and angry. DO you feel this Pharm grade is better? Or the 7Keto(?)...????
Title: Re: Dr. Eugene Shippen Visit
Post by: Kierkegaard on March 15, 2015, 06:33:44 pm
Dr. Shippen also was SURPRISED that my SHBG dropped that much, he said he had only seen that much of a drop a couple of times.

I take 25mg. each of DHEA and Pregnenolone daily,  vitamin D3  5000 iu.  5 days per week.

If you take any Thyroid meds.  T/3 will drive SHBG up quickly.

My SHBG dropped pretty dramatically, and it was after I started taking 5000 iu of powdered/encapsulated vitamin D.
Title: Re: Dr. Eugene Shippen Visit
Post by: JustAskin on March 16, 2015, 11:17:25 am
I no longer take the  7-Keto.  Only the Pure Encapsulation DHEA 25mg.  (this a small dose most are on 50mg. to get this level)
My wife bought a  "CHEAPER" brand about a year ago, I tried that and my DHEA-S level dropped over 200 points. Never again.

Side note: I am 65 years old and my wife if 62.  The best thing we have done for her mood and well being was getting her to take
Pregnenolone 10mg. Daily    (dose recommend for women)
DHEA 25mg.  5 days per week   (skipping Wed. and Sunday)
Vitamin D3 5000iu    (5 days week.)

P.S. We verified she was low before starting this regiment after 8 weeks we retested and she is right where LEF recommends.
This has made my life much happier, and she does not have mood swings and has more interest in sex.

Title: Re: Dr. Eugene Shippen Visit
Post by: timmy11 on March 16, 2015, 12:36:50 pm
If you don't mind me asking, how much does all this cost?
Title: Re: Dr. Eugene Shippen Visit
Post by: JustAskin on March 16, 2015, 02:52:04 pm
One more thing, and I think is the most important when you are on TRT your must use LABS to verify what is going on, you cannot guess. 
Title: Re: Dr. Eugene Shippen Visit
Post by: PeakT on March 16, 2015, 04:55:21 pm
I split out a discussion about cost here:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=6785.0
Title: Re: Dr. Eugene Shippen Visit
Post by: davie12 on March 16, 2015, 07:54:29 pm
I split out a discussion about cost here:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=6785.0

That link talks about max heart rate.
Title: Re: Dr. Eugene Shippen Visit
Post by: PeakT on March 16, 2015, 08:27:18 pm
I split out a discussion about cost here:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=6785.0

That link talks about max heart rate.

Thx Davie.  This oughta be better:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=6786.0