Peak Testosterone Forum

General Category => Testosterone, Hormones and General Men's Health => Topic started by: Prsartist on August 01, 2012, 01:56:44 pm

Title: Observations after 1 month HRT
Post by: Prsartist on August 01, 2012, 01:56:44 pm
Just wanted to share some observations after
Starting HRT about 1 month ago (5 weekly injections of 1cc)

Im 46 y.o. And My previous t levels were

Total 290-301
Free t 7.5-8.1 (range is 10-30)

Things have started to change drastically!

1st thing I "noticed" were morning erections
(that's every morning!) after about 2 weeks of treatment. Didn't  think too much about that.

After 4 weeks my sex drive is "Thru the roof"
Wasn't ready for it to hit me this hard!  Like some guys on here
My low T ruined past relationships to the point where I've had no interest
In sex for the past 5 years so I have no outlet for these urges! And had to " take matters into my own hands"!   Now I think about sex all the time!!!
All day, every day!  (multiple times a day!)
This may be a little much??

I just had my follow up blood work done yesterday and don't have the results back yet.


On the positive side,  I suffered from extreme fatigue, muscle pains and weakness. (which are not  "common" side effects of low T).  The fatigue is remarkably better (so much better I know longer need
Perscription stimulants to make it they the day!

The muscle aches I've had in just about ever major muscle from my legs to my neck
Which started in my back and seemed to spread out from there over time.
Not bad pain, just dull constant aches that never went away
Or got much worse.....
I noticed after. 2 weeks I no longer had the pain in one arm (injection arm!)
So the next 2 weeks I switched arms and guess what?????
No pain in that arm!!!
So now I'm injecting in my thighs to hopefully get rid of these aches in my legs.
I'm not gonna lie,  injecting in the leg muscle is quite a bit more painful than in the arm
And I wouldn't recommend that spot unless you have the muscle aches like I do .  If I can get the leg aches to go away, I'll start hip injections to hopefully relieve the back muscles???

The weakness i felt is totally gone!
I don't "feel sick" like I did for the past 5 years! I don't feel like
Superman, but I feel better and stronger than I had in quite a while!

Other observations are:

I'm growing facial hair much faster than before.
I need to shave every day, where as before I could go 2-3 days without shaving.

I'm also much "calmer" than before and mind seems better able to focus. You would think
Raising T levels would make you prone to anger and violence?
But it has had the opposite effect on me. 

This is just my personal expierence with HRT.
Just hoping this post will be of some use to someone in the future.
As I never knew low T could cause a lot more problems
Than just sex drive and function as the TV commercials would have you
Believe!






.



Title: Re: Observations after 1 month HRT
Post by: PeakT on August 01, 2012, 02:15:38 pm
Lol.  If you are a low testosterone guy with symptoms, testosterone is just plain magical. It is the difference between being a zombie and being "alive".

This is why it's so important for the young guys to protect themselves from all the endocrine disruptors, excitotoxins and other things that damage the Leydig cells, neurotransmitters and hypothalamus.  I hope some of them are reading this...

Hopefully, some of the other guys will relay some of their experiences as well...

Now use your power wisely:  put on muscle, drop any extra weight (if you are overweight) and get a superclean, whole foods diet (if you haven't already) as an insurance policy.
Title: Re: Observations after 1 month HRT
Post by: kcwebguy on August 01, 2012, 02:25:46 pm
For the record, my response to HRT has been almost identical to yours.

I will add that I have moved to more of a Mediterranean style diet and seen my blood pressure get closer to the normal range on  a daily basis despite being overweight, which I am working on of course.

Thanks for sharing your success with us...
Title: Re: Observations after 1 month HRT
Post by: LowerT51 on August 02, 2012, 12:07:20 pm
You will get used to the increased libido/thoughts/urges, etc.  It does take a bit of time to get "cool" about it though.  For me, on pellets, the transition has been remarkable.  I've been on pellets for nearly two years now so completely used to ALL of the changes for the better!!!   
Title: Re: Observations after 1 month HRT
Post by: FightLowT on August 02, 2012, 12:51:13 pm
Really great news to hear the OP is doing so well and has experienced such a dramatic improvement in his quality of life. It is encouraging to hear success stories. I am curious if you have suffered from another common ailment of low-t and that is depression along with low motivation and a general lack of enthusiasm for things you used to enjoy. I used to have so many interests, passions, and hobbies in my mid 20's and it's almost as if the slowly faded to the point at when I turned 31 they were non-existent. If you did suffer from common depression symptoms associated with low-t have those areas also improved in the span of your treatment?
Title: Re: Observations after 1 month HRT
Post by: Prsartist on August 02, 2012, 01:55:54 pm
Yes, depression was a major part of my problems.
I had spent almost 3 years on different Anti depressants
With NO success at all.   The lack of motivation and interests
Led to a near constant desire for sleep (I could have slept at any hour of the day)

Of course the Dr.s recognized that as a problem and had no problem
Prescribing me stimulants to help me make it thru the day.  Even though my low T
Numbers were staring them in the face.  It's trully a miracle that anyone gets help
For this  when so many Dr's are clueless.

My depression and fatigue are noticeably better, but not entitely gone.
Title: Re: Observations after 1 month HRT
Post by: Prsartist on August 08, 2012, 03:26:15 am
Just an update, my latest T level was taken last week
(a day before my weekly injection) to check my levels at there lowest point.
And it came back at 940!!!! (was 290-301)

Now As posted elsewhere HRT is no "miracle cure"
For all your problems, nor does it happen overnight.
I was in pretty rough shape, and after 5 weeks of treatment my
Muscle aches & pains are nearly gone..

Hoping these results continue, only time will tell.
Title: Re: Observations after 1 month HRT
Post by: PeakT on August 08, 2012, 03:31:05 am

Now As posted elsewhere HRT is no "miracle cure"


Congrats on the improvements!  For some guys it's almost overnight - takes just a few days. 
Title: Re: Observations after 1 month HRT
Post by: Prsartist on August 13, 2012, 05:05:23 pm
Ugghhhh.....
Latest test results.  Gotta call the Dr.

Testosterone 940 (great)
Free T   3.3 (great)
Estradiol 58.5!!!!!!!  How could the have overlooked this??
(range is 0-40). Pre treatment test was 24....

The know enough to run these tests, why can't  the read them??

Ugghh
Title: Re: Observations after 1 month HRT
Post by: feelgood on August 13, 2012, 06:59:35 pm
first off congrats on your success in the other areas!

the estradiol should be easy to fix with arimidex, or whichever other estrogen/estradiol reducer he/she recommends.

you'll be all figured out shortly.
Title: Re: Observations after 1 month HRT
Post by: PeakT on August 13, 2012, 09:51:37 pm

Estradiol 58.5!!!!!!!  How could the have overlooked this??
(range is 0-40). Pre treatment test was 24....

The know enough to run these tests, why can't  the read them??


Well, actually, not many guys have their E2 pulled by their docs.  So at least he did that for you.

So he actually pulled estradiol at the same time as your testosterone draw of 940?
Title: Re: Observations after 1 month HRT
Post by: Prsartist on August 13, 2012, 09:58:49 pm
Yes, does that surprise you??
Title: Re: Observations after 1 month HRT
Post by: PeakT on August 13, 2012, 10:07:05 pm
Yes, does that surprise you??

Yes, that's pretty rare.  I've never my estradiol pulled for example.  I recently asked for it and will get it next time.

I'm a "thin to win" guy, but, still, I think you should have that pulled.  No one has ever pulled my prolactin either.

So, no, nothing really surprises me any more. 

Part of the issue is the current insurance environment.  Insurance companies just do not realize that pulling a cheap marker for heart disease or endocrinological issues will save everyone hundreds of thousands of dollars in future health care costs.  I mean if the doctors often do not understand these issues, then how can we expect the insurance companies to, right?  So it's just going to take time.  Give it another decade, eh?
Title: Re: Observations after 1 month HRT
Post by: Prsartist on August 17, 2012, 12:33:49 am
Yes, does that surprise you??

Spoke with Dr. Today and expressed my concern with the
Esteadol reading of 58.  He stated that it's normal to see an Increase
Especially when he brought me up that high so fast.
And that it should "settle" down into a normal range
Given another month (don't really believe this).

He stated that he rarely has to prescribe an estradol blocker.
Does anyone have any info on estradol falling that much?

I'm concerned because erections are absolutely impossible
Now, and that the only thing I could think of?

Sex drive is back, this is NOT a good combination
To live with for a month.  I'm more than a little concerned.
Title: Re: Observations after 1 month HRT
Post by: Prsartist on August 17, 2012, 12:19:35 pm
Peak T

Did you have anything to add in that last post?


Spoke with Dr. today and expressed my concern with the
Esteadol reading of 58.  He stated that it's normal to see an Increase
Especially when he brought me up that high so fast.
And that it should "settle" down into a normal range
Given another month (don't really believe this).

He stated that he rarely has to prescribe an estradol blocker.
Does anyone have any info on estradol falling that much?

I'm concerned because erections are absolutely impossible
Now, and that the only thing I could think of?

Sex drive is back, this is NOT a good combination
To live with for a month.  I'm more than a little concerned.
Title: Re: Observations after 1 month HRT
Post by: PeakT on August 17, 2012, 01:35:27 pm
Prsartist:  Sorry about the confusion in the above post.  You accidentally capitalized today, so I modified that and ended up messing up your post.  But I fixed it above.

So question for you:  how long of you have been, do you think, up at the higher testosterone level (and higher estrogen level)?

.

Title: Re: Observations after 1 month HRT
Post by: Prsartist on August 17, 2012, 01:59:49 pm
Don't really know, I noticed the "maximum" effect
After about 2-3 weeks and everything was great. Morning wood everyday
Things were great. Noticed a drastic drop at 4-5 weeks but only in
The ED dept.  (blue pill didnt even help) libido and other aches are a lot better.
Was tested at week 5, everything looked good except estradol at 58.
Title: Re: Observations after 1 month HRT
Post by: PeakT on August 17, 2012, 04:03:44 pm
Don't really know, I noticed the "maximum" effect
After about 2-3 weeks and everything was great. Morning wood everyday
Things were great. Noticed a drastic drop at 4-5 weeks but only in
The ED dept.  (blue pill didnt even help) libido and other aches are a lot better.
Was tested at week 5, everything looked good except estradol at 58.

Gotcha.  Well, that's plenty of time for everything to stabilize, so I would definitely pursue the estradiol issue with your doc.  Of course, there's no way any of us knows for sure what the underlying issue is, but you've got to work on one thing at a time to find out what is causing the problem and, in my mind, that is one place to look.  High estrogen definitely seems to cause some men problems very similar to low testosterone.  In actuality, it may be the testosterone-to-estrogen ratio that is the underlying issue, but that's really splitting hairs if you stop to think about it.

Anyway, though, to answer your primary question:  I find it hard to believe that your E2 is going to drop any more after this many weeks.  I guess testosterone does tend to lean out men, i.e. they put on a little muscle and lose a little fat.  And that will tend to pull down estrogen over the months.  But that's the only thing I can think of that would cause a gradual decline in estrogen.  So push your physician on this and find out if he's just putting you off or if this is really a documented phenomenon for men in his practice.  Your testosterone is pretty high, so maybe the leaning out occurs much more frequently in his practice - I don't know.

Let us know what you find out...
Title: Re: Observations after 1 month HRT
Post by: Prsartist on August 30, 2012, 09:31:18 pm
Another observation today,  this after 10 weeks of treatment
The ED issue is still a major problem (get tested again next week)
Think it's due to my last estrogen LAB of 58.

I have noticed my testicles are smaller!!!!
(it's not in my imagination)  and I do feel them ache from time to time
For no reason...   Any ideas if this is  a TRT issue?
Title: Re: Observations after 1 month HRT
Post by: PeakT on August 30, 2012, 10:14:10 pm
I have never heard of this but, of course, get it checked it out.  There are, of course, many things that can cause testicular pain - some serious and some not.
Title: Re: Observations after 1 month HRT
Post by: Prsartist on August 30, 2012, 10:31:09 pm
Thanks
I've done an Internet search since posting this
And found it is in fact a side effect of  TRT.
Good grief if it's not one thing after another for me.

I just read on another forum its indicitave of secendary
Hypogonadism.  The pituitary shuts down production of
LH & FSH due to high testosterone levels.

Can be treated with HGC (another steroid)..
Does Any of this sound familiar?
Title: Re: Observations after 1 month HRT
Post by: FightLowT on September 01, 2012, 07:31:54 pm
I also don't believe that the E2 is going to drop either. Why? Cause I've got a brain and realize that if it were going to drop it would have never raised in the first place. They are supposed to train these docs with cause and effect logic classes that enable them to make decisions like smart people. You could try taking DIM. Some guys have success with it while others do not. It's expensive and probably not worth the price. Zinc may also help. There is no reason though for you to have to wait another month to see if those levels are going to go down. Seriously if that claim he is making is true about the levels rising and then later falling actually happens for you then I will walk inside that docs office and tell him to pull down his pants so I can kiss his ass. Thats how confident I am about your levels not falling like he says they will. If anything I'm pretty sure they will rise some more. After all isn't that the direction they were going? upwards...I don't believe in the magical night time visits of the E2 lowering elves from the dark forest but your doctor apparently does.( at least he's willing to help)..Geez it's always something with these docs.Seems like they never truly get it all the way. Most of them seem like they cannot get on the same page as to what works except for a handful of the top guys. for instance one might believe an AI is necessary while others won't. One will understand that some guys who are secondary will benefit from HCG or clomid while another will just write a script for androgel 1.62%  .No wonder people are traveling outside of the state and paying large amounts of money out of pocket to get dialed -in by an expert....Send me an email with the icon envelope..
Title: Re: Observations after 1 month HRT
Post by: Prsartist on September 01, 2012, 07:42:41 pm
Well...... This is what I've subsequently found
By Dr. John Crisler regarding the estradiol issue.

"Once the method and dosing is set, by laboratory assay AND subjective report from the patient, then you may address any side effects due to elevated estrogen levels which have occurred. I do not use an AI initially, even when E2 is elevated, because some patients will actually see a drop in estrogen over baseline on follow-up."

While I personally don't believe it,  (and it's been a less than ideal month)
Not much I can do now.  Thankfully I'm going in for my 2nd blood draw Tuesday, and will
Be calling the Dr. By Thursday to get this resolved!
Title: Re: Observations after 1 month HRT
Post by: Prsartist on September 01, 2012, 07:44:02 pm
Here is the interesting link I pulled the quote from.

http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/steroids-associated-drugs-articles/11279-hrt-trt-john-crisler.html
Title: Re: Observations after 1 month HRT
Post by: FightLowT on September 01, 2012, 07:52:25 pm
Yeah I've pretty much read everything he has written. The reason why I don't believe yours are going to go down is because you said you were doing 1 cc per week. Correct? That's a pretty hefty dose to be honest. Right on the top-side of what many docs would prescribe. Most start a guy on half that and work-up or down  .You might be around 1500ng/dl plus within a day or so after that injection. Really close to what is considered supraphysiological. Some guys depending on how their body's metabolize the T might need a higher dose but right before your next pin you said you were around 940ng/dl. Get that E2 in check and man you should really experience some benefits for body composition improvements and work-out recovery ability.
Title: Re: Observations after 1 month HRT
Post by: Prsartist on September 01, 2012, 08:06:50 pm
Yes you are correct about my dose and testing #'s
Do you think the 58 estradiol by itself could be causing the Ed issues?
And if my estradiol is 58 on the day before a pin, wonder what it is the day after??
Title: Re: Observations after 1 month HRT
Post by: FightLowT on September 01, 2012, 08:20:27 pm
The E2 definately isn't going to help. That's for sure. I would think most guys would do well between 17-30 pg/ml. Also sometimes higher T isn't necessarily the cure-all. Not that you don't need TRT but maybe not be close to the top of what is considered humanly possible. Apparently everyone has their own sweet spot. Hormones are weird things. Some guys might need to be in the 600's while others might need to be 800's. It is entirely possible that you could have significant higher E2 levels after that shot of 1cc. You could try halving the dose. Monday you would pin half the cc and then on thursday you would do the other half. That could potentially aid in E2 management as well. Some guys even inject sub-Q right into the adipose tissue and I have heard that it is surprisingly less likely to aromatize than intramuscular.
Title: Re: Observations after 1 month HRT
Post by: Prsartist on September 01, 2012, 08:36:12 pm
"sub-Q right into the adipose tissue" ???

I did seem to hit a "sweet spot" between the 2nd and 4th
Injection,  but unfortunately it didn't last.  I assumed it was from
Rising estradiol? (at least I hope it is?)


Title: Re: Observations after 1 month HRT
Post by: PeakT on September 01, 2012, 09:24:25 pm
"sub-Q right into the adipose tissue" ???

I did seem to hit a "sweet spot" between the 2nd and 4th
Injection,  but unfortunately it didn't last.  I assumed it was from
Rising estradiol? (at least I hope it is?)

Some guys really feel a big difference shortly after their testosterone is raised significantly.  My theory is that this is because in some men, it is really changing the neurohormonal soup in their brain.  I have also heard many describe what you did that things taper off rapidly after that. 

Supplements can do the same thing.  Whenever I take S-PS (phosphatidylserine), the first day is pretty dramatic and then the effect falls off rapidly.  (I haven't need S-PS since I started PMRing and meditating more.)

But realize most guys write in saying, "When am I going to feel the T therapy take effect?"  And I always say that they need to give it a few months, at least 3...
Title: Re: Observations after 1 month HRT
Post by: Prsartist on September 06, 2012, 11:12:37 pm
Just had my draw Tuesday, and I was on the phone
With my dr. (actually his dimwit asst.) At 9am To get the results.
Finall calls me back (at 4pm) to let me know my estradiol level was
Now at 88!!  That's about makes sense sine my baseline was 24,  5-week check
Was 58,  just about where I would expect!!

I'm so pissed, I probably shouldn't be typIng this now.  She remembered our conversation
A month ago, when I expressed my serious doubts about my estradiol level "magically" falling back to normal.  And said I could come down and pic up the anastrozole.  (not a good idea when I'm already pissed) but I went...

When I walked in the office (which is quite a drive) the 1st thing I hear is "how are you"....
PISSED!!!  She asked what happened so i told her and I'm sure everyone in the office heard my story!

(I'm paraphrasing here, leaving out a few 4 letter words that slipped out)


"You wonderful treatment center brought my sex drive back to when I was a teenager.  Then for added fun they caused complete and total ED.  When I brought up the estradiol of 58 to their attention 5 WEEKS ago, they told me that is common for it to drop all by itself, let's wait another month and see, i told her then i don't  believe it!  in the mean time now my testicles are aching and getting smaller!!

Of course my results came back today and let me tell you it's very frustrating being smarter than the Dr!  Low and behold I was right again!! Now my estradiol level is 88!  No wonder my balls hurt, their trying to shrivel away and grow a vagina".   

It was about this moment they pulled me back into a consultation office... No biggie I was about done at that point. 

The nurse practitioner who is handling my case when the Dr. Is out (which is most of the time)
Explained to me what was happening.  Gee thanks!!
I stopped her and told her I already know what and why this is happening, and that it's totally NOT ok
To cause complete ED, for a month when it should of been addressed a month ago!

She started the same old story about levels (magically) falling back to normal on their own.
I told her I don't believe a word of it, I want this fixed NOW!!  She said this anastrozole will block the estrogen conversion.

As far as my testicles aching and shrinking.  she said this too is a common side effect of TRT as my testicles have become inactive due to HRT, and that once my estradiol levels were in check they would start HCG, to keep them stimulated.  I then replied, you now think its ok for my testicles to ache for another her month, when you already know what it's going to take to correct the problem??

She then said that they don't want to introduce another med. until my estradiol is in check...
I said this better work, you don't want to see me in here earlier than my next appt!
And left..

Moral of this story is that it's imperative to monitor your estradiol levels!
Then can ruin any benefits of TRT!  If your Dr. Is not testing for it, find a new Dr.!!

Thank god for this site!  Don't think I would have been around without it!

Who would think so many Dr's are this clueless? And lack common sense. It's truly scarey!
Title: Re: Observations after 1 month HRT
Post by: FightLowT on September 07, 2012, 05:46:04 am
PRSartist I totally empathize with you. The best doctor I could find to help me out with my problems never thought that HCG would cause any E2 spikes. My Estrohen before any treatment was like 17pg/ml..Maybe a little low due to having testosterone in the 300-350ng/dl range. Anyway while on the HCG it went to something like 70 pg/ml and my T went up siginificantly as well roughly twice the amount it was baseline before hcg. I asked him don't you think my E2 levels may rise with the hcg injections? He was like no they shouldnt... >: Well they did..Big fucking surprise I knew more than the doctor...wa wa waaa...I swear to God if I had a script pad myself and access to labs I would be in so much better hands than guys who supposedly are the professionals and went to school for this shit.

Again this is why people drive and fly thousands of miles out of state to get the care they need because these douche aholic doctors don't know what they are doing..Please read this and let your mighty ego's deflate if you are here as a passerby and a "doctor". They probably aren't though because they have other important things to tend to like seeing their GF on the side of their marriage with a woman who is tired of their bullshit. Well their patients are tired of it too....

I love how they like to explain what is happening when you know what is happening better than they do. I just want to sit there at times and lift my leg and shoot a nice big greasy fart right in their  faces when they give me that bullshit..."I'm the doctor , I'm like a god, I know everything..you are just a blue collar piece of shit that is incapable of even understanding or comprehending any of this "...

You may need to go see a real doctor my friend...
Title: Re: Observations after 1 month HRT
Post by: PeakT on September 07, 2012, 08:47:30 am
88??  Well, glad you caught it and glad the site played a role in flagging that. 

Btw, that testicle aching theory is a new one to me.  I'm not saying they're wrong, but, from what I've seen, men generally get little testicular shrinkage.  Yes, the testes partly shut down, but this seems overstated.  If anyone else has run across this, let me know...
Title: Re: Observations after 1 month HRT
Post by: Prsartist on September 07, 2012, 09:27:07 am
They made it sound common!  And that somewhat makes since
Any muscle that's not used or stimulated will atrophy.
Why not the testicles.  She said they always include HCG in their treatment
Regiment for this reason.  When I say shrinking I don't mean to the size of
A rice Krispy!  It's just slightly noticeable, but it's definitely not in my imagination!
I don't think the testicles shutting down and shrinking can be "overstated"!
It definitely not a pleasant discovery!

As far as the ache, it's definately not BAD! Just noticible
And probably what brought me to the slight shrinkage discovery.

Title: Re: Observations after 1 month HRT
Post by: PeakT on September 07, 2012, 01:25:45 pm
PRSArtist:  Your case seems a little different of course.  I'm just saying that the normal guy on HRT doesn't watch his testicles dramatically decrease in size, nor experience testicular pain from what I am hearing "on the streets".  One guy on injections here said that he experienced that, though, i.e. a decrease in size.
Title: Re: Observations after 1 month HRT
Post by: Prsartist on September 07, 2012, 01:37:26 pm
Peak T

I'm sure everyone responds differently to a certain degree.
And this is no "dramatic" decrease by any means!
At first I thought I was imagining it.  I'm fairly certain others
Going through the same as me may not even notice. Ive just
Been very aware of what's happening to my body for the past 5 years
As I became worse and worse, and no Dr.'s were helping.
Plus we all know how sensitive the boys are to ANY amount of discomfort!
(I would not call this "pain")
Title: Re: Observations after 1 month HRT
Post by: teaman on September 07, 2012, 04:04:38 pm
I have experienced similar effects of TRT and my balls have shrunk a little and have ached a little.  I just thought this was normal as well. 

However, my Testosterone was like 940 last time i had it drawn and Estradial was like 24 or something.  Could the high Estradial be a weight issue?
Title: Re: Observations after 1 month HRT
Post by: Prsartist on September 07, 2012, 04:18:15 pm
No, actually 24 was my baseline estradiol.
It has steadily risen since starting TRT. Im curious to see how long it takes
To notice the effects of the AI? (hopefully not long)
This really sucks at the moment!!
Title: Re: Observations after 1 month HRT
Post by: 399 on September 10, 2012, 03:08:22 pm
i think your dosage of T is too high and that's why your body wants to convert so much of it to estrogen.  you probably shouldnt be 940 the day before a weekly injection, 940 would be very high for a 20 year old.

having said that, arimidex has done wonders for me in the 2 months i've been taking it, and my E2 was only 48 after a few months on hcg.  the doc prescribed me 0.5mg ED, which is higher than what most people i read about on msg boards take.  i tried that at first, felt nothing for about 10 days, then all of a sudden i started waking up with the biggest erections id experienced in many years.  and libido came back and now i think about sex all the time.  just the hcg alone wasnt doing it for me even though it did raise my T levels.  i have now cut back to 0.5mg EOD, which is still higher than most people seem to take, but it seems to be working for me.  i read a comment on another more steroid oriented forum where a guy was saying to calibrate the arimidex dosage based on morning wood, because if it gets too low you wont have it, but if it's just right it will be huge and powerful.  i now have morning wood every time i wake up, whether middle of the night, morning, whatever, so i am going to assume i am getting it right, dont have bloodwork scheduled for 6 more weeks to know for sure.  before starting hcg i was getting it once every 2 weeks or so, then improved to about every other day, now it's literally 100% of the time and so strong its almost painful if sleeping on my stomach.

additionally my lingering belly fat is finally starting to come off.  i'm 6'3 and have weighed in the 205-208 range for years, even though i work out aggressively and am quite muscular.  i had no fat anywhere by my gut, none whatsoever on arms or legs.  finally the gut has started shrinking and i weighed in the other day at 199.  i think 195-197 would be an ideal weight for me, so getting close. 

anyway the doc never even tested the E2 the first few times i went in, so dont know if it was high or not to begin with, or if the hcg drove it high.  the doc didnt want to give me the arimidex for it being just a little high, but i insisted on it and am so happy i did.  all i can say is, based on my experience, be sure your doc is testing E2, and demand an estrogen blocker if it's high.  everyone is different, and you can find plenty of comments on other boards how someone had a bad experience on arimidex, but for me it's been fantastic.
Title: Re: Observations after 1 month HRT
Post by: Prsartist on September 10, 2012, 03:28:02 pm
Thanks for the responce,  my dosage may be quite
High, but to be honest I'm quite happy to be at 940
On my lowest day!  I feel strong! And MUCH better than before
Starting TRT!  I would much rather get my estradiol down before
Lowering the dose.  Between weeks 2-5 things were great
(morning wood EVERY morning!). But that went south fast
After week 5 to nearly total ED!!  I have to think rising estradiol
Is the culprit here....   I don't get tested for another 6 weeks (may be sooner
If I don't see some improvement soon!). So I guess my morning wood will be the judge?

They started me on "anastrozole" to get my E2 under control
Before starting HCG......

It's just frustrating.....
Title: Re: Observations after 1 month HRT
Post by: 399 on September 10, 2012, 04:13:45 pm
right anastrozole is the generic name for arimidex.  i take the generic too.  what dosage does he have you on?  id think youd need a relatively high one given how high your t dosage and e2 is.

its pretty interesting how morning wood seems to be such a key marker of health and hormonal balance, and how much you can tell just from that
Title: Re: Observations after 1 month HRT
Post by: 399 on September 10, 2012, 04:17:02 pm
one other thing, i agree with you to be frustrated that they didnt put you on arimidex right away when you were at 58, but i do see their point about why they dont want to introduce 2 drugs at once because they need a baseline.  so i understand why they are making you wait on the hcg. 
Title: Re: Observations after 1 month HRT
Post by: Prsartist on September 10, 2012, 04:22:06 pm
The dose is either 25 or .25
2x a week.

 I just had mt 2nd one yesterday
Plan on taking it on Wednesday (injection day)
And Saturday's or Sunday's???
They said day didn't matter??
Title: Re: Observations after 1 month HRT
Post by: 399 on September 10, 2012, 09:35:59 pm
so a quarter of a pill twice a week? 1 pill is 1mg, so if its .25mg hed want you to split the pill 4 ways.  i hate to tell you something as if im a doctor, because im not, but as high as your e2 is that may not be enough.  most people i see taking 0.5mg 2x/week, i do it every other day.  if you have blood work relatively soon id just do what he says of course and see what happens.

people have a tough time getting the dosage on arimidex just right from what i can gather.  its very tough to get the e2 just right, not too low or too high.  thats why im sticking with what im doing as long as i keep getting good morning wood and if i notice any weakening there i might drop the frequency to every 3rd day
Title: Re: Observations after 1 month HRT
Post by: PeakT on September 10, 2012, 09:40:46 pm
That's exactly right.  This should be monitored by a knowledgeable doc who won't let your E2 to too high or too low.

If you want to see the consequences of trying to do it yourself, just read some of the steroid boards and the stories about joints aching and libido vanishing, etc.
Title: Re: Observations after 1 month HRT
Post by: Prsartist on September 10, 2012, 10:13:59 pm
The actually have me on .25 anastrozole 2x/week
From a compounding pharmacy (no cutting up pills)

I agree with this dosage most likely not being enough
I have enough to take every 3 days till my next lab.

Luckily (or unlucky) depending how you look at it my
Libido is really high, like a 16 y.o.! 
Im thinking about sex nearly every hour of the day!
(I had NO sex drive at all before starting TRT)

Never expected rising E2 levels to cause complete ED!
But that's the only level that was off on my last bloodwork.
This really REALLY sucks! (can't say it enough...SUCKS)
Title: Re: Observations after 1 month HRT
Post by: Prsartist on October 10, 2012, 02:46:39 am
Well it's been 4 weeks since my Dr. Ignored
My concerns about my estradiol level jumping to
58, then to 78!  Before prescribing amirdex .25 2x/week.

Labs this week revealed

Total t 698
Free t. 2.3
Estradiol. 42

Dr. States my estradiol is now ok!!!
Hell no, I tell him, my baseline was 24
And we need to get this under 30!!

He put up absolutely NO fight and increased
Me to .25 EOD.  Still no morning erections ( that I notice)
But expecting them any day now!!

Also started me on HCG 2x weekly to keep the
Boys happy!

Shocking part was the Dr. Was concerned that 698
May be a little low for me the day before injection, and may want to
Up my dosage after we see what the HGC does to my levels!
My total t has dropped every month since starting treatment
From 900's to the recent 698.  Never really read of anyone taking over 1cc
Except Bodybuilders???
Title: Re: Observations after 1 month HRT
Post by: PeakT on October 10, 2012, 05:16:06 am

Shocking part was the Dr. Was concerned that 698
May be a little low for me the day before injection, and may want to
Up my dosage after we see what the HGC does to my levels!
My total t has dropped every month since starting treatment
From 900's to the recent 698.  Never really read of anyone taking over 1cc
Except Bodybuilders???

Wow!  Most guys can't get treated in the 200's and your doc wants to pump you past 4X that.  It's a crazy world, eh?

No, those sound like pretty high numbers he's trying for.  You may want to ask him his reasoning?
Title: Re: Observations after 1 month HRT
Post by: Prsartist on October 10, 2012, 11:49:48 am
Woo hoo!  Morning wood for the 1st time in
8 weeks!  I knew it was just around the corner!

My Dr. Doesn't agree with my. "Expert" opinion
That the cause of the ED is high estradiol,  he thinks that
Because I had a great week (around week 3 after starting trt)
That the cause of ED was from my T levels dropping
From the. 900's to the 700's.
Title: Re: Observations after 1 month HRT
Post by: Quincy on October 10, 2012, 02:57:59 pm
That's great! Sounds like you dialed in on the problem.

When you say you are injecting 1cc per week, is the amount of T 200mg/cc?

That is the dosage I'm on right now but doing 300mg every 10 days. I may switch to 200mg per week in the near future.

I've never had my estradiol checked but am concerned about the high dosage I'm on.
Title: Re: Observations after 1 month HRT
Post by: Prsartist on October 10, 2012, 03:03:18 pm
I believe 1cc is 100mg...
2-300mg is the most I've heard anyone taking (besides Bodybuilders)
Title: Re: Observations after 1 month HRT
Post by: Quincy on October 10, 2012, 07:03:58 pm
Thanks Prsartist,
I've seen guidelines from the drug manf. They show a dosage range of 50mg to 400mg every 2 to 4 weeks.

According to this site, Testosterone Cypionate Injection, USP is available in one strength, 200 mg/mL Testosterone Cypionate, USP.

http://www.drugs.com/pro/testosterone-cypionate.html

You can look on your vial to see the strength.

I'm going to go with the 200mg/wk for a little while and then drop it down some to see if I feel any better, worse, or the same. From the above recommended dosage, I'm at the max rate currently.
Title: Re: Observations after 1 month HRT
Post by: Prsartist on October 10, 2012, 10:55:00 pm
Messing with hormones is serious business and you
Need to be tested regularly and under a Dr's supervision.
You start messing around with taking "whatever you feel like"
And your sure to expierence negative effects sooner or later.

There are just too many things that can go wrong
Yes their is likely only 1 strength.  I'm referring to
Dosage of 1cc per week.
Title: Re: Observations after 1 month HRT
Post by: Quincy on October 11, 2012, 02:47:01 am
I must have given you the wrong impression. My doc has me prescribed at 300mg every 10days. I'm just starting out and trying to find the right amount and frequency of shots. I asked the doctor if I could try every 7 days if it felt like too big of a swing. Basically taking the same daily dosage.

Title: Re: Observations after 1 month HRT
Post by: Prsartist on October 11, 2012, 09:19:01 am
Well I don't know what to tell ya.
I'm no expert, but that sounds like an awfully
High dose every 10 days.  I personally would be
VERY Leary on taking that much!
Title: Re: Observations after 1 month HRT
Post by: Quincy on October 11, 2012, 04:01:51 pm
You are right, that is a large dose. At the top of the range from what I have read is prescribed by docs for treating low T. I may try lowering it after a few more shot cycles and see how I feel. I was just curious how many T mg you were taking in a 1 cc shot. It is either 100mg or 200mg as that is how cypionate is manufactured by Pharma, but I didn't mean to take over your thread.
Title: Re: Observations after 1 month HRT
Post by: feelgood on October 16, 2012, 12:30:10 am
just wanted to chime in on the Arimidex front. Prior to Clomid/T treatment ( been on clomid-only for 7 months), my estradiol came in at 67.

After about 5 weeks on clomid, at my first blood reading after starting clomid, my estradiol came in at 26 (with T up to 630). That's pretty sweet.

Then i had another blood reading at about 6 months, and estradiol came in at 37 (T reading was 515).

I was taking clomid 50mg EOD, then switched to 25mg ED, so i had another blood work scheduled to see how i am doing on that protocol (seems like the same thing to me, but whatever).

If my estradiol reads even higher than 37, if you were me, would you bring up Arimidex? Is 37 fine or is it edging into high territory? I think if it's gone up again i should ask about Arimidex. Clomid has been fine for me in terms of raising my overall T level (not higher end of range, but i'll take it), but i can't say i have great morning wood or hugely increased libido.  Wondering if estradiol might have something to do with that and if Arimidex might help.
Title: Re: Observations after 1 month HRT
Post by: Prsartist on October 16, 2012, 12:43:41 am
Well I'm not a Dr. And can't tell you what you "should" do.
I know my E2 levels are NOT good for me at 42. (My last test)
I will not even settle for anything in the 30's!

But this is a slow trial and error period with little changes in dosage.
At least I'm able to function now.  Trust me when high E2 causes total
ED the last thing you want to do is wait and make little changes!
Title: Re: Observations after 1 month HRT
Post by: PeakT on October 16, 2012, 01:44:04 am

I was taking clomid 50mg EOD, then switched to 25mg ED, so i had another blood work scheduled to see how i am doing on that protocol (seems like the same thing to me, but whatever).

If my estradiol reads even higher than 37, if you were me, would you bring up Arimidex? Is 37 fine or is it edging into high territory? I think if it's gone up again i should ask about Arimidex. Clomid has been fine for me in terms of raising my overall T level (not higher end of range, but i'll take it), but i can't say i have great morning wood or hugely increased libido.  Wondering if estradiol might have something to do with that and if Arimidex might help.

Starry, I feel a little uncomfortable telling you whether or not to increase/decrease a pharmaceutical.  Have you seen the LEF article?  That is probably a reasonable general guideline.  But keep in mind symptoms are very important as well.

And, yes, E2 can very much play into erectile strength and libido, so that could definitely be causing issues.

Keep working on the morning erections as this can be from other factors: dopamine/nitric oxide/stress/sleep, etc. as you probably know from poking around on my site:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Morning_Erections