Peak Testosterone Forum

General Category => Testosterone, Hormones and General Men's Health => Topic started by: PeakT on July 13, 2014, 11:01:18 am

Title: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
Post by: PeakT on July 13, 2014, 11:01:18 am
The following was written by Peak:

Intramuscular:

http://www.excelmale.com/showthread.php?480-How-to-Inject-Testosterone-Safely

SubQ:

Youtube by the University of Pennsylvania: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLeEQTt25QE

Please feel free to ask questions within this thread:  we have many guys using cypionate on the forum, both subQ and IM (intramuscular).

CAUTION:  This is not a substitute for the training your doc (should) give you on the subject. 

---

The following was written by Kierkegaard:

Most symptoms from TRT probably come from too much estradiol (E2), and more rarely too much DHT; both of these hormones are metabolized from testosterone, such that the more you increase one the more the other two increase.  The question then becomes: how can we increase T to a level we want while minimizing its conversion to E2?  The following is a metaphorical "formula" I created for understanding this problem:

Total T --> T metabolites (E2, DHT) = injection method + injection schedule

Please don't take this formula literally.  The idea is that the amount of T you convert to E2 and DHT is a function of your injection method (intramuscular [IM] or subcutaneous [subq]) as well as your injection schedule (how often you inject).

There are a lot of possibilities to consider.  You could inject IM weekly, subq weekly (rare for some reason, perhaps because it's not wise to inject more than .5 ml at once when utilizing subq), IM every three days, subq every three days, and so on.  Why IM?  Because that's the traditional method for injecting testosterone.  Subq has four very good studies to support it (see Peak's page: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/SubQ_Testosterone_Injection_Studies.aspx ), but it's still a relatively new treatment; however, it has the clear advantage of making it much easier to inject more often, you don't have to aspirate, and you have no risk of muscle scarring with IM.  The vast majority of guys who have transitioned from IM to subq shots notice significant reductions in E2, something on the order of 40% according to the studies I've looked at; this might be due to something inherent about injecting into fat (slower absorption?), or simply because you're able to inject more often.  Either way, subq injections mean much lower peaks and higher troughs.  Check out this fascinating study that compares HCG (not cypionate, yes, but it should generalize to testosterone) injections on obese and non-obese women comparing subq and IM shots (notice the difference in peaks): http://humrep.oxfordjournals.org/content/18/11/2294/F1.expansion

Here's a hint: injecting less often than weekly IM or subq will very likely not work, and many guys have told the perennial story of doctors who don't know basic pharmacokinetics and regurgitate the "200 mg every two weeks" rule for cypionate, leading to big rollercoaster reactions because levels of T and therefore E2 and DHT shoot into the stratosphere for the first few days around the peak and then reach hypogonadal levels (unless perhaps your SHBG is relatively high) the last few days approaching your next injection.  This stuff doesn't work, and if you have a doctor who insists it does, it's either time to find another doctor or take things into your own hands by injecting more frequently -- which isn't something this site recommends you do. 

Pay attention to your body.  Estradiol and testosterone ranges are pretty huge, and a big philosophical limitation of statistics is it looks at large groups of people to determine ranges, but you're a particular individual, so your sweet spot could be anywhere along the range, although it probably should be somewhere at least at the 20th percentile, and you should be cautious about going into supraphysiological (i.e., above the range) levels because that's just not, you know, natural, dude. 

So say you've tried multiple schedules and methods, playing with, e.g., E3D, EOD, subq, IM, and other combinations, and you still don't feel your best.  This very likely means that your problem is something other than (just) testosterone, and I would highly recommend checking out thyroid (free T3, free T4, antibodies, TSH, reverse T3, also ferritin, iron, selenium, iodine), cortisol (blood: cortisol, cortisol binding globulin, ACTH, DHEA-S; salivary: 4x/day salivary test, which you can order through www.canaryclub.org, DHEA-S might be unreliable because of complicated flow-rate considerations), insulin (fasting glucose, A1C, insulin), growth hormone (IGF-1), and remember to make sure you're getting the right tests pulled for testosterone (free T, total T, E2).  Don't forget the basics, such as diet and exercise.  If you're wanting a big picture that's a superb value (don't let the price intimidate you), check out Life Extension's excellent comprehensive male hormone panel: http://www.lifeextension.com/vitamins-supplements/itemlc100010/male-comprehensive-hormone-panel-blood-test.  Feel free to message me (Kierkegaard) about cortisol stuff, because it can get a bit complicated (i.e., cortisol:ACTH ratio might be more important than just cortisol, testosterone-only TRT seems to lower cortisol just a bit and therefore can cause problems in guys "on the edge" with cortisol, ACTH stim tests can be insensitive, and some guys only get better with a trial of hydrocortisone). 
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections
Post by: Sam on July 14, 2014, 09:53:04 am
Important to note, I believe Crisler has moved to doing subQ in his Glutes.  His technique in this video is questionable.   I have been doing subQ for many months now and never got as much blood as he did in the video.  Some posters on his site have suggested that due to his low body fat and direct in technique he actually did a shallow IM injection.

I use the standard pinch technique for subQ and consistently see levels in the 700-900 range with E2 in the 20-30 range without and AI.

My protocol is 0.15ml(30mg) EOD using a 1/2 29ga Insulin Needle.  These work great for subQ IMO.

I am 200lbs and about 7-10% bodyfat.  I typically rotate injections around the fatty areas below my love handles to as far back as I can reach above my but. Rotating sides.   I prefer this area also because if you do get a red bump under the skin it is less noticeable and bothersome IMO.
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections
Post by: PeakT on July 14, 2014, 10:17:10 am
fyi:

Wholbrook was using:  30 gauge 5/16 (8mm) length (Insulin) per this thread:

http://peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=4582.0

So very similar...

Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections
Post by: Kierkegaard on July 15, 2014, 11:07:15 am
Important to note, I believe Crisler has moved to doing subQ in his Glutes.  His technique in this video is questionable.   I have been doing subQ for many months now and never got as much blood as he did in the video.  Some posters on his site have suggested that due to his low body fat and direct in technique he actually did a shallow IM injection.

I use the standard pinch technique for subQ and consistently see levels in the 700-900 range with E2 in the 20-30 range without and AI.

My protocol is 0.15ml(30mg) EOD using a 1/2 29ga Insulin Needle.  These work great for subQ IMO.

I am 200lbs and about 7-10% bodyfat.  I typically rotate injections around the fatty areas below my love handles to as far back as I can reach above my but. Rotating sides.   I prefer this area also because if you do get a red bump under the skin it is less noticeable and bothersome IMO.

I also question his 90 degree injection technique.  (Actually, given that I was injecting with a 1/2 inch needle into my glute when I started TRT IM, I probably got a little subq going with it as well, interestingly.)  I inject mine into my stomach (tried glutes for a while a liked them but stomach is easier) at a 45 degree angle, which allows me to get really deep into the fat, minimizing leakage. 
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections
Post by: PeakT on July 30, 2014, 09:26:25 am
Here is another site that covers things pictorially to all the different muscle groups:

http://spotinjections.com/index3.htm
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections
Post by: PeakT on August 23, 2014, 10:49:05 pm
Sam is doing subQ in the glut and prefers that.  He found a page that describes the location and technique that he is using:

http://nursing-knowhows.blogspot.com/2010/02/subcutaneous-injection.html
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections
Post by: HouKN98 on December 19, 2014, 07:38:15 am
Technical question-  when you do IM injections in the quads, do you push the needle in downward or from the side?  I did it from the side this morning, and I think I got some air into my quads.  Is this normal for it to happen every now and then?
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections
Post by: Steady on December 19, 2014, 09:44:47 am
If you are sitting with your thighs perpindicular to the floor aiming at the center of the Vastus Lateralis puts you about 45 deg off of vertical. Is that what you mean?
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections
Post by: Steady on December 19, 2014, 10:00:33 am
Check out the spotinjections website linked above in this thread, there are alot of good images.

How much air?
You will want to keep those bubbles to the absolute minimum and if you are using that bubble push method it becomes even more important to aspirate, in my opinion.
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections
Post by: HouKN98 on December 19, 2014, 11:55:29 am
If you are sitting with your thighs perpindicular to the floor aiming at the center of the Vastus Lateralis puts you about 45 deg off of vertical. Is that what you mean?

Yeah that's what I mean, and is usually what I do, but I think this time with the way I did it, it was even more than 45 deg off vertical... more parallel to the floor.  I'm still getting the technique down.  Also using the bubble push method, about 0.1 ml, but some of that got in, too.
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections
Post by: Hydranted on December 20, 2014, 10:46:49 am
No need to stress about a little bit of air in your injection.  It helps push out all of the oil and is perfectly safe.  You would have to inject an insane amount of air directly into a major blood vessel for it to have any negative effect.
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections
Post by: HouKN98 on December 20, 2014, 02:09:48 pm
No need to stress about a little bit of air in your injection.  It helps push out all of the oil and is perfectly safe.  You would have to inject an insane amount of air directly into a major blood vessel for it to have any negative effect.

Good to know, thanks!
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections
Post by: Jezza819 on March 30, 2015, 08:23:31 pm
I've been doing IM injections since early February in the side of the quads and on the first two I bled like a stuck pig. I also had very bad knots in the legs on the first two that lasted for two days afterwards. But now almost 6 weeks or so later I get very little blood if any at all and almost no leg pain the next day.

I first thought that there was no way I could inject myself with a needle and I still have some apprehension holding the needle above the skin but once it goes in it's ok.
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections
Post by: PeakT on March 30, 2015, 09:27:03 pm
I've been doing IM injections since early February in the side of the quads and on the first two I bled like a stuck pig. I also had very bad knots in the legs on the first two that lasted for two days afterwards. But now almost 6 weeks or so later I get very little blood if any at all and almost no leg pain the next day.

I first thought that there was no way I could inject myself with a needle and I still have some apprehension holding the needle above the skin but once it goes in it's ok.

So what are you doing differently?
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections
Post by: Jezza819 on March 31, 2015, 11:50:09 am
I've been doing IM injections since early February in the side of the quads and on the first two I bled like a stuck pig. I also had very bad knots in the legs on the first two that lasted for two days afterwards. But now almost 6 weeks or so later I get very little blood if any at all and almost no leg pain the next day.

I first thought that there was no way I could inject myself with a needle and I still have some apprehension holding the needle above the skin but once it goes in it's ok.

So what are you doing differently?

Nothing really. I think it's just a matter of the area or muscle getting used to the injection. Wednesday night is my scheduled injection night and the first two times I did it I was still limping at work on Friday. I first started in the right leg but I'm left handed and I thought I just might have missed the angle or something but then the next week it was the same for the left leg. I think it's just a matter of the muscle or skin getting used to injections.

The way I was taught was to stretch the skin tight at the injection area. Then after the injection rub the leg vigorously to try and ease any pain or bleeding. I might have gotten a little dot of blood since then but not like that first night. I had a stream of blood running down my leg before I could get to the cotton balls and band aids. 
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections
Post by: PeakT on April 02, 2015, 08:16:33 am
I've been doing IM injections since early February in the side of the quads and on the first two I bled like a stuck pig. I also had very bad knots in the legs on the first two that lasted for two days afterwards. But now almost 6 weeks or so later I get very little blood if any at all and almost no leg pain the next day.

I first thought that there was no way I could inject myself with a needle and I still have some apprehension holding the needle above the skin but once it goes in it's ok.

So what are you doing differently?

Nothing really. I think it's just a matter of the area or muscle getting used to the injection. Wednesday night is my scheduled injection night and the first two times I did it I was still limping at work on Friday. I first started in the right leg but I'm left handed and I thought I just might have missed the angle or something but then the next week it was the same for the left leg. I think it's just a matter of the muscle or skin getting used to injections.

The way I was taught was to stretch the skin tight at the injection area. Then after the injection rub the leg vigorously to try and ease any pain or bleeding. I might have gotten a little dot of blood since then but not like that first night. I had a stream of blood running down my leg before I could get to the cotton balls and band aids.

Well, I've heard if you tighten the muscle, it can make things worse as well.  I doubt you were doing that though, but int'g...
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections
Post by: Jezza819 on April 02, 2015, 09:10:51 pm
I've been doing IM injections since early February in the side of the quads and on the first two I bled like a stuck pig. I also had very bad knots in the legs on the first two that lasted for two days afterwards. But now almost 6 weeks or so later I get very little blood if any at all and almost no leg pain the next day.

I first thought that there was no way I could inject myself with a needle and I still have some apprehension holding the needle above the skin but once it goes in it's ok.

So what are you doing differently?

Nothing really. I think it's just a matter of the area or muscle getting used to the injection. Wednesday night is my scheduled injection night and the first two times I did it I was still limping at work on Friday. I first started in the right leg but I'm left handed and I thought I just might have missed the angle or something but then the next week it was the same for the left leg. I think it's just a matter of the muscle or skin getting used to injections.

The way I was taught was to stretch the skin tight at the injection area. Then after the injection rub the leg vigorously to try and ease any pain or bleeding. I might have gotten a little dot of blood since then but not like that first night. I had a stream of blood running down my leg before I could get to the cotton balls and band aids.

Well, I've heard if you tighten the muscle, it can make things worse as well.  I doubt you were doing that though, but int'g...

Yeah I definitely wasn't tightening it. HOWEVER, I really should have learned my lesson and not bragged about how easy it's been going because most of this afternoon I've been dealing with a knot in my leg that feels as big as a baseball. But this time I think went further down on my leg closer to my knee. That might be the reason for the leg pain. I need to try and remember to stick up to thick part of my leg.
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections
Post by: PeakT on April 03, 2015, 11:38:29 am

Yeah I definitely wasn't tightening it. HOWEVER, I really should have learned my lesson and not bragged about how easy it's been going because most of this afternoon I've been dealing with a knot in my leg that feels as big as a baseball. But this time I think went further down on my leg closer to my knee. That might be the reason for the leg pain. I need to try and remember to stick up to thick part of my leg.

When my wife was doing IM injections in my glutes, every once in awhile, she would hit a nerve and it would sting quite a bit.  Or at least that is my theory.  Maybe I just hadnt taken out the trash that day/.   ;D
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections
Post by: PeakT on April 10, 2015, 08:39:47 am
Regulus gave a great explanation as to how he fills his syringes the easy, straighforward way:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=7041.0
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections
Post by: factor5a on July 26, 2015, 02:49:59 pm
Hey guys

What can I expect if I switch to sub q from IM?

I use sustenon "IM" and I quote IM because I inyect it in my legs but with a 27GX 1/2" needle so I don't go deep at all in the muscle and even that,sometimes I have a huge pain for days after the inyection. Sustenon is known for that kind of pain. It happens to me ocasionally not always but when it happens it is very painfull. I don't bleed at all and no blood gets in the syringe before pushing the oil in,also I don't think I'm hitting a nerve because I'm going only 1/2 inch deep.



I think I will not suffer that amount of pain by going sub q but I don't know if in the mean time my test level will go down until my system will start to take the test from my fat tissue.


Any opinions from someone who has switched from IM to sub q???


Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections
Post by: PeakT on July 26, 2015, 04:34:25 pm
Hey guys

What can I expect if I switch to sub q from IM?

I use sustenon "IM" and I quote IM because I inyect it in my legs but with a 27GX 1/2" needle so I don't go deep at all in the muscle and even that,sometimes I have a huge pain for days after the inyection. Sustenon is known for that kind of pain. It happens to me ocasionally not always but when it happens it is very painfull. I don't bleed at all and no blood gets in the syringe before pushing the oil in,also I don't think I'm hitting a nerve because I'm going only 1/2 inch deep.



I think I will not suffer that amount of pain by going sub q but I don't know if in the mean time my test level will go down until my system will start to take the test from my fat tissue.


Any opinions from someone who has switched from IM to sub q???

What volume would you be injecting if you went subQ?  I have heard you don't want to go over .25 ml good on stuff like that.  Hydranted is really good on stuff likke that so maybe he will chime in.  But if it's too big of a volume you'd probably have to do multiple times per day?
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections
Post by: factor5a on July 26, 2015, 04:40:10 pm
Hey guys

What can I expect if I switch to sub q from IM?

I use sustenon "IM" and I quote IM because I inyect it in my legs but with a 27GX 1/2" needle so I don't go deep at all in the muscle and even that,sometimes I have a huge pain for days after the inyection. Sustenon is known for that kind of pain. It happens to me ocasionally not always but when it happens it is very painfull. I don't bleed at all and no blood gets in the syringe before pushing the oil in,also I don't think I'm hitting a nerve because I'm going only 1/2 inch deep.



I think I will not suffer that amount of pain by going sub q but I don't know if in the mean time my test level will go down until my system will start to take the test from my fat tissue.


Any opinions from someone who has switched from IM to sub q???

What volume would you be injecting if you went subQ?  I have heard you don't want to go over .25 ml good on stuff like that.  Hydranted is really good on stuff likke that so maybe he will chime in.  But if it's too big of a volume you'd probably have to do multiple times per day?

I inyect around 75 mgs once a week ,Peak

It is .3 mls in the syringe.

What da ya think ,amigo?

But the main question is, should I expect a drop in my test levels ?


Hey Hydranted,show up ,please  ;D
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections
Post by: PeakT on July 27, 2015, 10:11:55 pm
Hey guys

What can I expect if I switch to sub q from IM?

I use sustenon "IM" and I quote IM because I inyect it in my legs but with a 27GX 1/2" needle so I don't go deep at all in the muscle and even that,sometimes I have a huge pain for days after the inyection. Sustenon is known for that kind of pain. It happens to me ocasionally not always but when it happens it is very painfull. I don't bleed at all and no blood gets in the syringe before pushing the oil in,also I don't think I'm hitting a nerve because I'm going only 1/2 inch deep.



I think I will not suffer that amount of pain by going sub q but I don't know if in the mean time my test level will go down until my system will start to take the test from my fat tissue.


Any opinions from someone who has switched from IM to sub q???

What volume would you be injecting if you went subQ?  I have heard you don't want to go over .25 ml good on stuff like that.  Hydranted is really good on stuff likke that so maybe he will chime in.  But if it's too big of a volume you'd probably have to do multiple times per day?

I inyect around 75 mgs once a week ,Peak

It is .3 mls in the syringe.

What da ya think ,amigo?

But the main question is, should I expect a drop in my test levels ?


Hey Hydranted,show up ,please  ;D

Looks like that may be on the high side:

http://pharmlabs.unc.edu/labs/parenterals/subcutaneous.htm
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections
Post by: factor5a on July 28, 2015, 06:15:56 am
Hey guys

What can I expect if I switch to sub q from IM?

I use sustenon "IM" and I quote IM because I inyect it in my legs but with a 27GX 1/2" needle so I don't go deep at all in the muscle and even that,sometimes I have a huge pain for days after the inyection. Sustenon is known for that kind of pain. It happens to me ocasionally not always but when it happens it is very painfull. I don't bleed at all and no blood gets in the syringe before pushing the oil in,also I don't think I'm hitting a nerve because I'm going only 1/2 inch deep.



I think I will not suffer that amount of pain by going sub q but I don't know if in the mean time my test level will go down until my system will start to take the test from my fat tissue.


Any opinions from someone who has switched from IM to sub q???

What volume would you be injecting if you went subQ?  I have heard you don't want to go over .25 ml good on stuff like that.  Hydranted is really good on stuff likke that so maybe he will chime in.  But if it's too big of a volume you'd probably have to do multiple times per day?

I inyect around 75 mgs once a week ,Peak

It is .3 mls in the syringe.

What da ya think ,amigo?

But the main question is, should I expect a drop in my test levels ?


Hey Hydranted,show up ,please  ;D

Looks like that may be on the high side:

http://pharmlabs.unc.edu/labs/parenterals/subcutaneous.htm


Gracias Peak,

But maybe you didn't read my number. I said that I'm  inyecting point three mililiters or in other words  one third of a mililiter. Sustenon comes in 250 mgs in one mililiter.

In this link they say maximum 2 mls . The question I still have is if my levels of test will drop temporarily.

Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections
Post by: PeakT on July 28, 2015, 07:54:33 am
2 ml?!?  You're right.  Mentally, I translated that into .2.  That doesn't make sense.  One sec...
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections
Post by: PeakT on July 28, 2015, 08:02:17 am
Okay, it looks like the guys on here say .5 ml is the upper limit and even that is pushing it.  I know that I wouldn't want to do .5 ml into the ab area - seems like way too much.  .3 should be okay.  One thing that happens to guys when they inject too much or maybe their body fat is too low (in the ab area):  they get nodules or it stings.  See this:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=6307.0

JustAskin said to make sure you inject slowly:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=4192.0

Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections
Post by: factor5a on July 28, 2015, 09:10:58 am
Thanks for the links,Peak

I think .3 mls is ok and also it seems that the speed you allow the oil to get in,is very important.

Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections
Post by: lowtguy2015 on September 22, 2015, 07:49:00 pm
What is a good needle length for SubQ? I am using a 0.5" 29ga needle, but that length seems longer than it needs to be for SubQ. I also saw that some are using 5/16" perhaps? That seems like a better length for SubQ.

I guess it depends on where you inject too. If you go for the thigh, 0.5" seems long (for relatively low fat), but is probably OK for the glutes. So maybe I should just go for the glutes? The only thing about that is it takes a while (0.33mL/injection) to inject and holding still in an awkward position can be difficult. Thoughts?
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections
Post by: PeakT on September 22, 2015, 07:53:50 pm
What is a good needle length for SubQ? I am using a 0.5" 29ga needle, but that length seems longer than it needs to be for SubQ. I also saw that some are using 5/16" perhaps? That seems like a better length for SubQ.

I guess it depends on where you inject too. If you go for the thigh, 0.5" seems long (for relatively low fat), but is probably OK for the glutes. So maybe I should just go for the glutes? The only thing about that is it takes a while (0.33mL/injection) to inject and holding still in an awkward position can be difficult. Thoughts?

With subq angle is not that important if i understand.
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections
Post by: lowtguy2015 on September 22, 2015, 08:27:56 pm
With subq angle is not that important if i understand.

Hmm, I don't quite follow. I guess my thought is that it would be more straightforward to just use a shallower needle (5/16"). I just don't see why you would need a 0.50" needle for SubQ (even though it seems relatively common). Seems like 5/16" should do the trick nicely...so why are some using a 0.50"?
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections
Post by: PeakT on September 23, 2015, 08:58:20 am
With subq angle is not that important if i understand.

Hmm, I don't quite follow. I guess my thought is that it would be more straightforward to just use a shallower needle (5/16"). I just don't see why you would need a 0.50" needle for SubQ (even though it seems relatively common). Seems like 5/16" should do the trick nicely...so why are some using a 0.50"?

Actually, a 5/16 is not a bad idea and would probably help me keep injecting into the abs.  And the only reason is that I've never thought about it.
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections
Post by: Hydranted on September 24, 2015, 08:28:41 pm
What is a good needle length for SubQ? I am using a 0.5" 29ga needle, but that length seems longer than it needs to be for SubQ. I also saw that some are using 5/16" perhaps? That seems like a better length for SubQ.

I guess it depends on where you inject too. If you go for the thigh, 0.5" seems long (for relatively low fat), but is probably OK for the glutes. So maybe I should just go for the glutes? The only thing about that is it takes a while (0.33mL/injection) to inject and holding still in an awkward position can be difficult. Thoughts?


5/16" needles are great for subQ injections in my experience.  Nothinf wrong with a .5" needle either, although you may not want to bury it if you're injecting into your gut if you're a really lean guy. 
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections
Post by: TopGeek on October 02, 2015, 11:45:24 am
I use an 8mm (5/16") 30G 0.5ml needle and I inject 0.1ml Sustanon 250 into the top of alternating thighs EoD. I also have a blood test every 3 months to ensure that my E2 and hematocrit levels remain within the normal range. We cannot get cypionate here in Belgium as the 'powers that be' have decided to only approve Sustanon 250 and Nebido for injection, as well as various gels and capsules.
Even so, I think my experience with Sustanon must be similar to that with cypionate, particularly with regard to maintaining a sensible control of the amount to inject and the need for regular blood tests.
I already had the issue of my hematocrit and other red blood cell components going too high when I was taking 0.15ml EoD. It took 3 months for the levels to come down to normal when I stopped the T injections.
High hematocrit raises the risk of thrombosis. Using only 0.1ml has stabilised the situation.
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections
Post by: Tropicaldaze on October 30, 2015, 10:51:37 am
As my TT and free T have been falling after 4 month mark of Testopel implant,free T in particular; down to 88 from 194 five weeks ago, I told my urologist that I wanted to resume test enanthate shots, 20mg IM, daily in order to keep my level stable, plus, I like the control that shots offer versus pellets. He was fine with that.  My question, which probably exists on some thread on this forum: inject every day or every other day?  I don't mind the shots.  Do them in the glutes.  No discomfort as compared to injecting in the quads.  I use a 25g needle.

I saw a thread where Regulus did a mathematical analysis of ED versus EOD versus E3D.  Statistically, it seemed a wash.  But my urologist, who prescribes shots and gels,  likes pellets because they achieve a steady state and he's seen good results in men for whom nothing else worked.  Injecting every day, I believe, can accomplish that steady state just as well, along with being able to adjust the dose up or down, as labs and patient response, warrant.

I'm also changing to AARP Medicare Supplement plan in January, so Medicare will be my primary insurance and I don't know if they cover pellets.   Above all, shots are just easy!  A week after the pellets,  my wife said my butt looked like I'd been kicked by a horse. 

Hope everyone is fine and making progress on your various protocols.
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections
Post by: PeakT on October 30, 2015, 01:22:57 pm
As my TT and free T have been falling after 4 month mark of Testopel implant,free T in particular; down to 88 from 194 five weeks ago, I told my urologist that I wanted to resume test enanthate shots, 20mg IM, daily in order to keep my level stable, plus, I like the control that shots offer versus pellets. He was fine with that.  My question, which probably exists on some thread on this forum: inject every day or every other day?  I don't mind the shots.  Do them in the glutes.  No discomfort as compared to injecting in the quads.  I use a 25g needle.

I saw a thread where Regulus did a mathematical analysis of ED versus EOD versus E3D.  Statistically, it seemed a wash.  But my urologist, who prescribes shots and gels,  likes pellets because they achieve a steady state and he's seen good results in men for whom nothing else worked.  Injecting every day, I believe, can accomplish that steady state just as well, along with being able to adjust the dose up or down, as labs and patient response, warrant.

I'm also changing to AARP Medicare Supplement plan in January, so Medicare will be my primary insurance and I don't know if they cover pellets.   Above all, shots are just easy!  A week after the pellets,  my wife said my butt looked like I'd been kicked by a horse. 

Hope everyone is fine and making progress on your various protocols.

Ha ha.  Maybe.  He may also like pellets because they deliver him a nice fat reimbursement from the insurance company.
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections
Post by: Tropicaldaze on October 30, 2015, 01:43:22 pm
But there are also two men on here for whom pellets accomplished what shots or gels couldn't do and only Testopel is covered by insurance.  I agree that the pellets and procedure are pricey.  My doctor told me that each pellet costs $85.  I don't blame doctors as much as the FDA for not approving other pellets and the insurance companies for not leaning on the FDA to allow more competition.  I thought that competition is the basis of the American economic system?
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections
Post by: PeakT on October 30, 2015, 08:45:55 pm
But there are also two men on here for whom pellets accomplished what shots or gels couldn't do and only Testopel is covered by insurance.  I agree that the pellets and procedure are pricey.  My doctor told me that each pellet costs $85.  I don't blame doctors as much as the FDA for not approving other pellets and the insurance companies for not leaning on the FDA to allow more competition.  I thought that competition is the basis of the American economic system?

Pellets have worked for well for some men.  A lot of it depends on the protocol of your urologist imo, i.e. does he put in enough pellets and does he stretch out the time frame too far. 

And I'm not sure how competition got into this as you and I both believe in competition in the markets and that has nothing to do with whether or not pellets are a good protocol or not.  I am simply pointing out that I think some urologists have a bias towards pellets, because, to be frank, it makes it worth their while.  As I have discussed several times on here, it is not very profitable for a doc to teach a patient how to do self-admistered subQ shots at home.  He probably loses money on that one.  Again, this is why I believe you don't see subQ promoted more by doctors.  It's really a no brainer for those who want injections, but docs can't make a buck off of it and they have a hellacious amount of staff and equipment to pay for.
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections
Post by: roadglide on October 31, 2015, 04:02:59 am
Intramuscular:

http://www.excelmale.com/showthread.php?480-How-to-Inject-Testosterone-Safely

SubQ:

http://www.allthingsmale.com/forum/showthread.php?21787-The-Cutting-Edge-Video-Series-with-Dr.-John-Crisler

Please feel free to ask questions within this thread:  we have many guys using cypionate on the forum, both subQ and IM (intramuscular).

CAUTION:  This is not a substitute for the training your doc (should) give you on the subject.


Anyone know why the SubQ link doesn't work anymore?  My T hasn't increased since on cream and believe I will be starting injections soon.  Last time I spoke with my Doc about this, he preferred intramuscular.  The video also discussed HGC, which I also wanted to get my docs opinion on.


Thanks!
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections
Post by: PeakT on October 31, 2015, 08:59:29 am
Intramuscular:

http://www.excelmale.com/showthread.php?480-How-to-Inject-Testosterone-Safely

SubQ:

http://www.allthingsmale.com/forum/showthread.php?21787-The-Cutting-Edge-Video-Series-with-Dr.-John-Crisler

Please feel free to ask questions within this thread:  we have many guys using cypionate on the forum, both subQ and IM (intramuscular).

CAUTION:  This is not a substitute for the training your doc (should) give you on the subject.


Anyone know why the SubQ link doesn't work anymore?  My T hasn't increased since on cream and believe I will be starting injections soon.  Last time I spoke with my Doc about this, he preferred intramuscular.  The video also discussed HGC, which I also wanted to get my docs opinion on.


Thanks!

I heard that Dr. Crisler changed his protocol a bit when injecting into the abs.  So maybe that is why?  I'm doing every other day subQ and living it.  I just measured my testosterone levels at two different labs and they came back 700 and 800.  That's a good level for me - not too high and not too low.
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections
Post by: Tropicaldaze on October 31, 2015, 01:01:37 pm
Yup; some doctors will do the most expensive protocol because it puts a nice piece of change in his or her pocket.  My urologist offers to use gels, shots, compounded cream and pellets.  I never felt I was being pressured to opt for the pellets.  But competition plays a role in medicine.  Testopel, it seems, is the only FDA approved pellet, but there is another brand of pellets and pellets can also be compounded.  Why is the FDA bestowing its approval on only one brand of pellet and why are the insurance companies, who determine what procedures they'll cover and how much they'll reimburse, not pressuring the FDA to allow more competition via giving its approval to other pellet manufacturers, in order to lower the cost.

You know, too, that insurance companies negotiate prices for procedures.  They don't pay whatever the doctor bills.  I had a sleep study awhile back.  The medical group billed it at $2600.  Aetna paid them $640 and I paid my $50 co-pay.  My primary told me that this is the way the game is played with specialists.  He said the only doctors getting nearly 100% were neurosurgeons.  I lump banks, insurance companies and politicians, together. 

How did I get so off topic, when I was looking for info on doing IM T shots everyday?  A big LOL!!!
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections
Post by: roadglide on November 01, 2015, 07:41:18 am
Good info thanks to both you guys.  Sounds like you have your T dialed Peak.

Think I'll just follow my Docs recommendations.
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections
Post by: PeakT on November 01, 2015, 02:06:35 pm
Good info thanks to both you guys.  Sounds like you have your T dialed Peak.

Think I'll just follow my Docs recommendations.

Some guys do more frequent intramuscular.  Guys will inject into the delts, quads and, if you can get your wife/girlfriend to help, the gluts.  But it's nice to just get settled with a protocol, try it out and see how you feel.  Once you are in the system and have a protocol, you can switch doctors and protocols fairly easily.  This is how I'm doing it now.
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections
Post by: roadglide on November 01, 2015, 07:08:38 pm
Thanks Peak, going in on the 13th for blood draw so we'll see.
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections
Post by: ht on December 03, 2015, 01:42:21 pm
I have some questions regarding my personal injection protocol, but I'm asking here because I feel like they are general-enough questions that the answers may help quite a few others who are looking to do subQ.

I plan to start subQ injections tomorrow.  I've been on 1cc/200mg IM every 2 weeks until now.  I bought 30g 1/2" insulin syringes, and I plan to inject in my belly (squeeze belly to side of navel, insert needle fully at 90deg).  I have 3 questions:

Is fully inserting a 1/2" needle too far for subQ in the belly?  I'm not super thin, especially here.  Should I get 5/16" instead?

Can I do a weekly 0.5cc injection, or is 0.5cc too much for a single subQ injection?

I know the new Crisler method is to do it in the glutes, but it seems like it would be harder to self-inject in this area.  I'd prefer not to bother my wife with it, even though she's been fine with the IM shots so far.  Are there really tangible benefits from doing it in the glutes as opposed to the belly?
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections
Post by: Steady on December 03, 2015, 03:49:00 pm
I use a 29g .5cm needle in the belly but I do it at 45 degrees. Its plenty deep that way. I haven't had a problem in about a year on that protocol.

I can't remember the source but have read that .5ml is the upper limit for a oil based SubQ injection. It will probably work fine but if you have any issues think about twice weekly for a smaller volume.
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections
Post by: PeakT on December 03, 2015, 05:10:15 pm
I have some questions regarding my personal injection protocol, but I'm asking here because I feel like they are general-enough questions that the answers may help quite a few others who are looking to do subQ.

I plan to start subQ injections tomorrow.  I've been on 1cc/200mg IM every 2 weeks until now.  I bought 30g 1/2" insulin syringes, and I plan to inject in my belly (squeeze belly to side of navel, insert needle fully at 90deg).  I have 3 questions:

Is fully inserting a 1/2" needle too far for subQ in the belly?  I'm not super thin, especially here.  Should I get 5/16" instead?

Can I do a weekly 0.5cc injection, or is 0.5cc too much for a single subQ injection?

I know the new Crisler method is to do it in the glutes, but it seems like it would be harder to self-inject in this area.  I'd prefer not to bother my wife with it, even though she's been fine with the IM shots so far.  Are there really tangible benefits from doing it in the glutes as opposed to the belly?

SubQ in the gluts you can do yourself.  I use a 1/2 inch needle on my abs and I'm thin. 
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
Post by: Jonny on January 04, 2016, 09:06:35 pm
  Hey guys.. it's been awhile since I have been on here. I have a question that I am sure you can help with. So its been about 2yrs now that I have been on TRT, my Dr had me on 200mg IM every 2wks.... for the last 8 months or so he asked me to cut down to 150mg every 3wks.... so I did 50mg IM each wk... I have realized now I'm crashing out and need to bump it back up a bit.. I felt great with 100mg/wk.

 So my question is, since I keep reading smaller more frequent injections work better, would a 25mg injection EOD or E3D be better? I do IM injections now but could I do this schedule with subQ as well. I would like to dial this in once and for all.
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
Post by: PeakT on January 04, 2016, 09:13:24 pm
  Hey guys.. it's been awhile since I have been on here. I have a question that I am sure you can help with. So its been about 2yrs now that I have been on TRT, my Dr had me on 200mg IM every 2wks.... for the last 8 months or so he asked me to cut down to 150mg every 3wks.... so I did 50mg IM each wk... I have realized now I'm crashing out and need to bump it back up a bit.. I felt great with 100mg/wk.

 So my question is, since I keep reading smaller more frequent injections work better, would a 25mg injection EOD or E3D be better? I do IM injections now but could I do this schedule with subQ as well. I would like to dial this in once and for all.

fyi:  I tried 80 mg in two times per week and greadually felt worse.  So I went back up to 100 mg.  Basically, you have to experiment and find where you feel good, meet your parameters, have morning erections, etc.  I personally guys to go as low as they can to feel normal.  I think that is safer for a variety of reasons. However, you can go too low, though, imo, because then insulin levels will start rising and you'll be at great risk of Met-S and its host of nasty problems.  Inflammation in the arteries will also rise as well. 

But the main thing I want to say is, unless you are high SHBG, you will do much better with more frequent injections.  We have guys on here doing frequent subQ - like me - and quite a few guys doing frequent IM.  We just had a thread from the pro-IM guys and they said they felt better.  So dig that up if you are int'd.

But every two weeks just makes no sense:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Testosterone_Cypionate_Weekly_Two_Weeks.aspx
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
Post by: Jonny on January 04, 2016, 09:26:43 pm
  Thanks Peak
I started back at 100mg /wk for the last 3wks and I am starting to feel better, morning wood is back. ;)  Think I will start the subQ and see if that works or I'll just go back to the IM.. Thinking I will do 25mg EOD then take it down to 20mg. I agree with you, I would like to find the lowest amount I need to stay in a good range and feel good.
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
Post by: PeakT on January 05, 2016, 10:28:59 am
  Thanks Peak
I started back at 100mg /wk for the last 3wks and I am starting to feel better, morning wood is back. ;)  Think I will start the subQ and see if that works or I'll just go back to the IM.. Thinking I will do 25mg EOD then take it down to 20mg. I agree with you, I would like to find the lowest amount I need to stay in a good range and feel good.

I'm doing 30 mg EOD, but I usually have a small bubble in there, so I would guess I am doing 13-14 ml, i.e. 26-38 mg EOD.
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
Post by: Jonny on January 05, 2016, 03:32:20 pm
 So I did my first subQ today. Injected 25mg into the abdomen area.. so only .25ml was injected, I felt it a bit more than my IM shots I do. I used an insulin 29g 1/2inch needle.  Do guys alternate between smaller more frequent  subq and IM or is it better to stick with one. Am I correct in understanding that subq absorbs slower compared with a IM injection...

 I need to look back in the thread but did someone say that  .25ml is an ok amount to use subq... think I'm doing that right, my test cyp is 100mg/ 1cc .. so .25ml = 25mg
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
Post by: PeakT on January 05, 2016, 03:57:35 pm
So I did my first subQ today. Injected 25mg into the abdomen area.. so only .25ml was injected, I felt it a bit more than my IM shots I do. I used an insulin 29g 1/2inch needle.  Do guys alternate between smaller more frequent  subq and IM or is it better to stick with one. Am I correct in understanding that subq absorbs slower compared with a IM injection...

 I need to look back in the thread but did someone say that  .25ml is an ok amount to use subq... think I'm doing that right, my test cyp is 100mg/ 1cc .. so .25ml = 25mg

Usually a guy will prefer one over the other.  But we have had men change teams.
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
Post by: Kierkegaard on January 05, 2016, 06:39:30 pm
So I did my first subQ today. Injected 25mg into the abdomen area.. so only .25ml was injected, I felt it a bit more than my IM shots I do. I used an insulin 29g 1/2inch needle.  Do guys alternate between smaller more frequent  subq and IM or is it better to stick with one. Am I correct in understanding that subq absorbs slower compared with a IM injection...

 I need to look back in the thread but did someone say that  .25ml is an ok amount to use subq... think I'm doing that right, my test cyp is 100mg/ 1cc .. so .25ml = 25mg

It probably isn't a speed of absorption issue, but a matter of peaks especially and barely toughs: subq lowers peaks by somewhere around 30-40% (based on multiple animal studies I've seen comparing IM and subq shots for different substances).  Check out this awesome graph comparing hCG (which should generalize to cypionate) for IM and subq among obese and non-obese women:

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-_0QuUHtdeCA/Ttd_oyI1DVI/AAAAAAAAAJI/HAt8oVghvR0/s1600/HCG+Chart.jpg)

Notice how much smoother subq injections are compared to IM, and also notice how the more obese you are the less of an effect you get for either IM or subq, and seemingly a lower peak as well relative to obesity (meaning, screwily, that an obese person's IM injection might be close to the same as a non-obese person's subq injection). 

Also, you said .25 mls and then 25 mg.  Are you taking 100mg per mL cypionate?  Because if you're taking 200mg per mL (like most people do), then you'd double your mL amount and take away the decimal to see how much you're taking in mgs.  E.g., .10 mL = 20 mg -- remember, only for 200 mg/mL cypionate. 
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
Post by: Jonny on January 05, 2016, 08:22:08 pm
  Thanks Kierkegaard,  that's a great graph. That makes it a bit more understandable.
And yes my cyp  is 100mg/ml
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
Post by: Kierkegaard on January 05, 2016, 08:34:50 pm
  Thanks Kierkegaard,  that's a great graph. That makes it a bit more understandable.
And yes my cyp  is 100mg/ml

Cool.  That definitely makes it easier to measure.  Make sure you don't go past .50 ml or 50 mg when injecting subcutaneously.  If you need to inject more than this much, split up your injections into two different site injections, or just inject more frequently.
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
Post by: PeakT on January 07, 2016, 10:00:46 pm
  Thanks Kierkegaard,  that's a great graph. That makes it a bit more understandable.
And yes my cyp  is 100mg/ml

Is that compounded?
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
Post by: Miklu on January 23, 2016, 03:10:33 am
So if testosterone only trt might lower little bit of cortisol in physiological amounts of supplementing t,  does sypraphysiological amount of testosterone lower even more? Let's say 250mg of testosterone weekly?
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
Post by: PeakT on January 23, 2016, 09:33:21 am
So if testosterone only trt might lower little bit of cortisol in physiological amounts of supplementing t,  does sypraphysiological amount of testosterone lower even more? Let's say 250mg of testosterone weekly?

It could cuzz it would shut you down harder according to that school of thought.  Keep in mind that that is not something out of the research though but anecdotal.
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
Post by: roadglide on March 18, 2016, 09:09:35 am
Peak, what size needle for cyp do you use for sub q in the belly?
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
Post by: PeakT on March 18, 2016, 02:09:35 pm
Peak, what size needle for cyp do you use for sub q in the belly?

27 to 29 ga; 1/2 inch needles; insulin syringe
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
Post by: Kierkegaard on March 18, 2016, 11:51:56 pm
So if testosterone only trt might lower little bit of cortisol in physiological amounts of supplementing t,  does sypraphysiological amount of testosterone lower even more? Let's say 250mg of testosterone weekly?

It could cuzz it would shut you down harder according to that school of thought.  Keep in mind that that is not something out of the research though but anecdotal.

Peak, I'm sure you've seen me ramble about this study: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1470424/

The discussion section contains other articles that reveal the same thing but also speak about mechanisms, such as reduction of adrenal cascade enzymes, a partial form that's fully seen in congenital adrenal hyperplasia.  This is a very well-done study, so I don't see how it can be easily put aside.  I'll be asking Mariano about it when I meet with him in a week (he's previously written, years before this article came out, how testosterone can lower cortisol and cause problems, but that it does this through reducing ACTH, not raising it).

As for the original question, I'd say that the reductions in cortisol are going to be small and in many cases not noticeable in general and provided that you're at a healthy cortisol level to begin with.  Of course, speaking generally means you have room for individual variation, and this is where anecdotes come in: I've talked with or read about multiple guys who had clear significant reductions in cortisol asl measured by salivary collections.  I'm talking like 40-50% reductions in morning levels.  These, I think, are pretty uncommon.  At the same time, I think it's absolutely imperative to measure all your major hormones (thyroid, insulin, adrenal) when measuring testosterone given the interrelatedness of the endocrine system, so you minimize the odds of putting a bandaid on something and creating a wound in another area. 

And yeah, I think you should see a dose-dependent relationship, but no studies have unveiled this, so that's totally my opinion.  I know that my DHEA-S has been higher the higher my testosterone dose, indicating more ACTH because of lower cortisol given the effect of testosterone replacement on these variables.  But that's just me, not the general.
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
Post by: PeakT on June 13, 2016, 10:30:12 am
I split out a post about a study (that I believe Sam posted many moons ago) showing what happens as the dosage is ramped up from 50 to 300:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=10253.0
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
Post by: PeakT on November 24, 2016, 08:45:24 am
Good thread on how to inject into the delts:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=11454.0
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
Post by: PeakT on December 03, 2016, 03:36:05 pm
Thx to Croaker for this:  he posted some pics as to where to inject subQ in the gluts.  Check out the links below:

"The upper outside quadrant on either side.   

For example -- http://fitnessedge.net/guides/steps-to-self-administering-a-subcutaneous-injection/    or  https://www.bd.com/resource.aspx?IDX=29219

I don't feel a thing at these sites but go lower and it will really sting.    Also it really cannot be done self-injecting - my wife does it for me."
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
Post by: hockey21 on August 14, 2017, 06:23:10 am
Hi All!

Doing my first injection today - Subq. 100mg/ week

Question - my pharmacy gave me 27 gauge needles. Are these too thin? Is that okay? I'm a very lean guy (5'10, 143 lbs). Any tips?

I've watched lots of videos but don't have too much stomach fat.

Thanks!
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
Post by: Kierkegaard on August 14, 2017, 07:29:38 am
Hi All!

Doing my first injection today - Subq. 100mg/ week

Question - my pharmacy gave me 27 gauge needles. Are these too thin? Is that okay? I'm a very lean guy (5'10, 143 lbs). Any tips?

I've watched lots of videos but don't have too much stomach fat.

Thanks!

I use 29 g needles for subq injections.  I wouldn't worry too much about "only" 27 g, though.  We generally rec injecting more frequently than once per week, which is why subq injections are recommended; every 3 days is a good number for most guys, and note that we've found that the more frequently you inject the less T you need.  So instead of just injecting 42 mg E3D, you might consider rolling that down to 30-35 mg E3D.  This is something the doctors who come at the forum have noticed as well. 
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
Post by: hockey21 on August 15, 2017, 07:28:35 am
I stopped by my PCP today (who ordered the T) to have them do my first injection.

They used a 25g for the SubQ and I won't lie - it is definitely tender/ sore in the area.

Maybe I'm too lean for a 25?

Thanks
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
Post by: Kierkegaard on August 15, 2017, 02:04:38 pm
I stopped by my PCP today (who ordered the T) to have them do my first injection.

They used a 25g for the SubQ and I won't lie - it is definitely tender/ sore in the area.

Maybe I'm too lean for a 25?

Thanks

Go to the Vitality Medical and order 29g 1 ml insulin or tuberculosis syringes. There's no reason you can't do them yourself. You're probably feeling sore from having so dang much injected subq at once. Again, people use subq to inject more frequently at lower amounts. If you insist on doing 100 mg at once, split the injection into two separate locations on your abdominal area or just do intramuscular injections.
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
Post by: PeakT on August 20, 2017, 08:20:05 am
I stopped by my PCP today (who ordered the T) to have them do my first injection.

They used a 25g for the SubQ and I won't lie - it is definitely tender/ sore in the area.

Maybe I'm too lean for a 25?

Thanks

Yeah, just increase your frequency:  some guys do EOD, some MWF, etc.
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
Post by: Roger on September 27, 2017, 03:42:17 am
If I want to stay at 100mg per week of test cyp, what would be the proper dosage if I start SubQ injections EOD? 20mg, 25mg, or 30mg?
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
Post by: doin it on September 27, 2017, 06:07:25 am

Age: 71

Guys,
I bought Lee Myer's book and it contains a lot of great info but am confused on one point: several times in the book, Lee says he does subq EOD and then several times in the book, he says he does 2 x per week, which one does he REALLY do?
Thanks,
Doin it
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
Post by: Cataceous on September 28, 2017, 05:08:05 am
If I want to stay at 100mg per week of test cyp, what would be the proper dosage if I start SubQ injections EOD? 20mg, 25mg, or 30mg?

Well 100 mg/3.5 ~= 28.6 mg, so the 30 mg dose would put you closest (at 105 mg per week). But it's frequently said that you can use a lower dose when injecting more often, so I would go for the 25 mg dose.
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
Post by: PeakT on September 28, 2017, 09:45:57 am

Age: 71

Guys,
I bought Lee Myer's book and it contains a lot of great info but am confused on one point: several times in the book, Lee says he does subq EOD and then several times in the book, he says he does 2 x per week, which one does he REALLY do?
Thanks,
Doin it

I am currently doing every other day subQ.
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
Post by: doin it on September 28, 2017, 08:52:27 pm
Age: 71
Primary Hypogonadism
Low T
High LH
High FSH
Medium high Prolactin
High SHBG
E2=22
5'10, 167

Thanks for your response, Lee.

Have tried T cream (disliked) and T Alc Gel which did not much but put DHT over the top (what a number that was), off and on over the last 5 years.

Starting SubQ T soon with the "start low and go slow" mantra.  Also recognizing that Dr. Crisler says that 80 mg SubQ is equivalent to 100 mg IM (which puts most hypo guys in the 500 to 800 range).

I have all the above readings for the last 25 years and when I felt best, was around 500 to 600 ng.

 So, will begin with 50 mg per week which should put me in that range.  I am trying to figure out whether to do every day, EOD, or 2x / week.

IMOPO, recognizing that LH and T release are pulsatile, diurnal, are highest in the am, and then diminish the rest of the day (mine drops by about 22 % by 4:30 pm), I think that the body organs and all those billions of cells get a break from the T in the evening and very early am (B4 3 am).   I have not read this anywhere, just my opinion (do they NEED a break?).  So, I think I would like to do daily but am concerned about all those holes (365 per year).  Is anyone doing SubQ daily?  If so, any comments would be more than welcome.

Thanks,
Doin it
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
Post by: PeakT on September 29, 2017, 05:55:50 am
Age: 71
Primary Hypogonadism
Low T
High LH
High FSH
Medium high Prolactin
High SHBG
E2=22
5'10, 167

Thanks for your response, Lee.

Have tried T cream (disliked) and T Alc Gel which did not much but put DHT over the top (what a number that was), off and on over the last 5 years.

Starting SubQ T soon with the "start low and go slow" mantra.  Also recognizing that Dr. Crisler says that 80 mg SubQ is equivalent to 100 mg IM (which puts most hypo guys in the 500 to 800 range).

I have all the above readings for the last 25 years and when I felt best, was around 500 to 600 ng.

 So, will begin with 50 mg per week which should put me in that range.  I am trying to figure out whether to do every day, EOD, or 2x / week.

IMOPO, recognizing that LH and T release are pulsatile, diurnal, are highest in the am, and then diminish the rest of the day (mine drops by about 22 % by 4:30 pm), I think that the body organs and all those billions of cells get a break from the T in the evening and very early am (B4 3 am).   I have not read this anywhere, just my opinion (do they NEED a break?).  So, I think I would like to do daily but am concerned about all those holes (365 per year).  Is anyone doing SubQ daily?  If so, any comments would be more than welcome.

Thanks,
Doin it

Noted.  Can you please create a separate thread for this?  PM me if you don't know how to do it.  This thread is more for the raw mechanics and protocols of injections.
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
Post by: doin it on September 29, 2017, 04:17:41 pm

Sure thing, Lee.

I would like to post the following here: hope this is the correct thread. 

Age: 71
Primary Hypogonadism
Low T
High LH
High FSH
Medium high Prolactin
High SHBG
E2=22
5'10, 167

Starting with 0.125 cc/ml T Cyp (25 mg at 2x/week); 200 mg/ml.  Either daily, EOD, or 2x/week undecided (Would like to do 250 mg/ml (easier to meter out) but cannot find it by any of the big well known Pharms.
I think I would like to start with a 28 gauge x 3/8 to 7/16 needle, one piece, throwaway syringe, injected variously around belly button, love handles, and maybe upper, outer glutes. I do have a few xtra lbs around waist, so am wondering if 3/8 or 7/16 needle is ok? (penetrating entire length of needle).

Do you guys recommend 90 or 45 degree injection?

And also wondering if a 0.3 cc syringe (3/10) will have fine enough graduations to accurately measure out 0.125 cc/ml consistently?

Tuberculin or diabetes syringe, any difference for T cyp?

I would like to share an interesting Pubmed paper describing a study of
diabetic school children and adolescents that measured pain of injection for various size needles.  They found that they did not perceive much difference between 27 to 30 ga needles.

 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15016225

So, to get a cross between lighter pain and lower injection time, is why I am starting with a 28 ga needle, sound ok?

Any particular brand/model suggestions for the syringe?  Source?

Thanks very much for any comments anyone may have to the questions above.

Doin it.
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
Post by: Joe Sixpack on September 29, 2017, 05:56:06 pm

Sure thing, Lee.

I would like to post the following here: hope this is the correct thread. 

Age: 71
Primary Hypogonadism
Low T
High LH
High FSH
Medium high Prolactin
High SHBG
E2=22
5'10, 167

Starting with 0.125 cc/ml T Cyp (25 mg at 2x/week); 200 mg/ml.  Either daily, EOD, or 2x/week undecided (Would like to do 250 mg/ml (easier to meter out) but cannot find it by any of the big well known Pharms.
I think I would like to start with a 28 gauge x 3/8 to 7/16 needle, one piece, throwaway syringe, injected variously around belly button, love handles, and maybe upper, outer glutes. I do have a few xtra lbs around waist, so am wondering if 3/8 or 7/16 needle is ok? (penetrating entire length of needle).

Do you guys recommend 90 or 45 degree injection?

And also wondering if a 0.3 cc syringe (3/10) will have fine enough graduations to accurately measure out 0.125 cc/ml consistently?

Tuberculin or diabetes syringe, any difference for T cyp?

I would like to share an interesting Pubmed paper describing a study of
diabetic school children and adolescents that measured pain of injection for various size needles.  They found that they did not perceive much difference between 27 to 30 ga needles.

 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15016225

So, to get a cross between lighter pain and lower injection time, is why I am starting with a 28 ga needle, sound ok?

Any particular brand/model suggestions for the syringe?  Source?

Thanks very much for any comments anyone may have to the questions above.

Doin it.
50mg/week seems pretty low.  Especially for someone with high SHBG. 

28g would be fine.  Most guys try a few different sizes before settling in on a favorite.  There is no harm in trying anything from 25 to 31g.  a 3cc syringe will be difficult to use.  1cc is much easier to dose properly.
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
Post by: Roger on September 29, 2017, 08:10:55 pm
If I want to stay at 100mg per week of test cyp, what would be the proper dosage if I start SubQ injections EOD? 20mg, 25mg, or 30mg?

Well 100 mg/3.5 ~= 28.6 mg, so the 30 mg dose would put you closest (at 105 mg per week). But it's frequently said that you can use a lower dose when injecting more often, so I would go for the 25 mg dose.

Thanks! I'll probably try to stay as close to 28.6 mg EOD until my next doctor's visit and blood draw. My doctor recently switched me from 80 mg per week to 100 mg per week, so I want to see where that puts my numbers on my next lab test before adjusting up or down.
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
Post by: PeakT on September 30, 2017, 10:25:18 am
If I want to stay at 100mg per week of test cyp, what would be the proper dosage if I start SubQ injections EOD? 20mg, 25mg, or 30mg?

Well 100 mg/3.5 ~= 28.6 mg, so the 30 mg dose would put you closest (at 105 mg per week). But it's frequently said that you can use a lower dose when injecting more often, so I would go for the 25 mg dose.

Thanks! I'll probably try to stay as close to 28.6 mg EOD until my next doctor's visit and blood draw. My doctor recently switched me from 80 mg per week to 100 mg per week, so I want to see where that puts my numbers on my next lab test before adjusting up or down.

That's almost exactly what I was doing - I'm 162 lbs though - but I just recently bumped it up.  I feel a lot better higher to be honest but didn't feel bad at 26 mg EOD.
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
Post by: doin it on October 02, 2017, 06:32:25 am

PeakT,

When you were doing 26 mg, we're you using a 3/10 syringe?  I will be doing those kind of numbers and so l have been looking for a syringe that has graduations fine enough to measure small quantities  accurately and consistently.  I have not been able to find a 10 unit/0.1 cc/0.1ml syringe so am about to give up the search and settle for a 3\10 with half-scale markings.

Thanks,
Doin it
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
Post by: Roger on October 02, 2017, 11:00:10 am
Doin it, you should be able to find what you're looking for at the below link. I use a 1 mL Tuberculin Syringe, 26 Gauge x 3/8 Inch, but if you're looking for something else just type it into the search button and it should pop up. I've been buying my syringes from here for a few years without any problem. You just have to email them a photo of your testosterone Rx on your first order.

https://www.vitalitymedical.com/kendall-tuberculin-syringe-1cc-25ga-x-58.html

 
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
Post by: doin it on October 02, 2017, 02:05:20 pm
Roger.

Thanks for the lead.  Went there, smallest they carry is 3/10 (0.3 cc/ml: 30 unit).  So I guess I'll just be happy with 3/10, half-scale graduation.

Thanks again,
Doin it
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
Post by: PeakT on October 03, 2017, 03:21:15 pm

PeakT,

When you were doing 26 mg, we're you using a 3/10 syringe?  I will be doing those kind of numbers and so l have been looking for a syringe that has graduations fine enough to measure small quantities  accurately and consistently.  I have not been able to find a 10 unit/0.1 cc/0.1ml syringe so am about to give up the search and settle for a 3\10 with half-scale markings.

Thanks,
Doin it

I am using the 29 gauge half inch monoeject from Defy. I really like those as they are cheaper and you can do everything with one syringe.
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
Post by: doin it on October 05, 2017, 05:39:46 am
Peak,

You are probably not carrying a lot of waist fat, and using a 1/2 " needle, are you sure you are not really doing abdominal IM?

I would think a 5/16 or 3/8 " needle would be more likely to be in the fat (assuming needle penetration of the entire needle).

Also, are you using a 3/10 or 1 cc/ml syringe?

Thanks,
Doin it
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
Post by: PeakT on October 05, 2017, 09:59:29 pm
Peak,

You are probably not carrying a lot of waist fat, and using a 1/2 " needle, are you sure you are not really doing abdominal IM?

I would think a 5/16 or 3/8 " needle would be more likely to be in the fat (assuming needle penetration of the entire needle).

Also, are you using a 3/10 or 1 cc/ml syringe?

Thanks,
Doin it

I don't think so.  The last refuge of fat for me is a little pad on my abs.  It's really tough for me to get rid of.  In addition, I kind of go in at an angle.  But it's possible.  Sometimes it really stings and my theory is that that is when I "hit bottom."  I don't know...
Title: Are SubQ abdominal injections REALLY IM?
Post by: doin it on October 07, 2017, 10:33:32 pm
Posted by: PeakT« on: October 05, 2017, 09:59:29 pm »

Insert Quote

Quote from: doin it on October 05, 2017, 05:39:46 am

Peak,

You are probably not carrying a lot of waist fat, and using a 1/2 " needle, are you sure you are not really doing abdominal IM?

I would think a 5/16 or 3/8 " needle would be more likely to be in the fat (assuming needle penetration of the entire needle).

Also, are you using a 3/10 or 1 cc/ml syringe?

Thanks, 
Doin it


I don't think so.  The last refuge of fat for me is a little pad on my abs.  It's really tough for me to get rid of.  In addition, I kind of go in at an angle.  But it's possible.  Sometimes it really stings and my theory is that that is when I "hit bottom."  I don't know...



Recognizing that insulin and SubQ T both are intended to be injected into the fat layer and not into muscle tissue, I have been trying to pin down (sorry, couldn't resist) what size needle to use for SubQ T (primarily abdominal).  In my search for info, I ran across a paper by BD (the syringe manuf), excerpts from it follow (sorry for its length, but it all seemed applicable to this forum).

Doin it

 During subcutaneous insulin therapy, inadvertent intramuscular (IM) injections may increase pain and/or adversely affect glucose control. The most appropriate needle length for patients depends on skin and subcutaneous adipose layer thickness.

 Research design and methods:
388 U.S. adults with diabetes (in 3 body mass index (BMI) groups: <25; 25-29.9; and ≥30 kg/m2) with diverse demographic features were evaluated. Each subject had ultrasound measurements of skin and subcutaneous thickness (SC) at the four commonly used injection sites; rear upper arm, anterior upper thigh, anterior abdomen and upper outer quadrant of the buttock.

 Results:
BMI ranged from 19.4 to 64.5 kg/m2, age 18 to 85 years; 40% were Caucasian, 25% Asian, 16% Black, 14% Hispanic; 28% had type 1 diabetes.
Mean skin thickness was; arm 2.2 mm, thigh 1.9 mm, abdomen 2.2 mm and buttocks 2.4 mm.

 Thigh skin thickness was <0.6 mm thinner than the buttocks. Differences of 10 kg/m2 account for 0.2 mm skin thickness variation, i.e. the skin thickness difference between patients with BMI of 25 vs. 35 was only 0.2 mm.

 Mean subcutaneous thickness was: arm 10.8 mm, thigh 10.4 mm, abdomen 13.9 mm and buttocks 15.4 mm. Subcutaneous thickness in females was 5.1 mm greater than in males. Differences of 10 kg/m2 account for a difference of 4 mm subcutaneous thickness.

Discussion:

 This data supports the use of short needles for subcutaneous injection therapy. A 4 mm pen needle will successfully deliver medication subcutaneously at all sites in nearly all adults with diabetes. Specifically, it is estimated that perpendicular insertion of such needles will deliver drug into the subcutaneous space >99.5% of the time, without intradermal injections.

 An additional MRI study shows precise anatomic deposition of small volume (4 “units”) saline injections into the thigh of a healthy adult male, BMI 25.2 kg/m2), using 90° insertions of pen needles 4-8 mm in length. Both the 4 mm and 5 mm pen needles deposit the saline within the SC tissue, whereas the 6mm injection is at the level of the muscle fascia, and the 8 mm injection clearly lies within the muscle tissue. Results would likely differ in patients with lower or higher BMI.

 Conclusions:
Injection site skin thickness does not differ by clinically significant degrees in demographically diverse adults with diabetes; subcutaneous thickness has a wider range. Pen needles ≥8 mm, inserted perpendicularly, may frequently enter muscle in limbs of males and those with BMI <25 kg/m2.
A 4 mm length pen needle, inserted perpendicularly without a raised skin fold, will consistently provide subcutaneous medication delivery.

The paper cites the following 2 sources:

 1 Gibney MA, Arce CH, Byron KJ, Hirsch LJ. Skin and subcutaneous adipose layer thickness in adults with diabetes at sites used for insulin injections: implications for needle length recommendations. Curr Med Res Opin. 2010; 26 (6): 1519–1530.

2 MRI images provided by Drs. Anders Frid and Björn Lindén, 2010.

Link to paper (pdf):

 https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.bd.com/documents/white-paper/DC_Adult-Skin-Insulin-Injection-Site-Thickness-in-Diabetes_WP_EN.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwjB-4y3oeDWAhUq5IMKHd3qDswQFggtMAA&usg=AOvVaw2JfCPRGes04m4UfA9yWEyp

Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
Post by: PeakT on October 13, 2017, 06:54:01 pm
Thats for insulin though unless I'm really missing something.

Subq and IM does not share those same concerns as fat as I know.

Have you seen this thread on IM with an insulin needle for example?

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=13677.0
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
Post by: doin it on October 13, 2017, 09:09:03 pm

Peak,

I think the point the paper is trying to communicate is to establsh the maximum length of needle required to inject a liquid substance (insulin or T, makes no difference) into the fat layer  >99.5 % of the time in most all adults (average BMI, etc.) without getting into the muscle.  And they found that a 4 mm needle will satisfy that requirement.

The paper IS using insulin as the subject liquid but there is no reason the paper cannot be applicable to T as well.  At least, that was my take on it.

Yes, I did read that string and almost commented that you (T guys) have to make sure you are using what they call U-100 insulin syringes (100 units holds 1 cc (or 1 ml), and marked off linearly:  "10" on the body graduations equals 10 units equals 0.1 cc/ml).

Not an expert at syringes in the diabetes world, but I think there are two types: U-100 and U-40. The U-100 is to be used ONLY with U-100 insulin (100 units of insulin per ml) and the U-40 used ONLY with U-40 insulin (40 units of insulin per ml).

There are warnings all over the net not to use U-100 syringes with U-40 insulin and vice versa as the U-40 holds a different amount than the U-100, but can easily be confused with the U-100 ("10" on the body graduations does not equal 0.1 cc/ml type thing).

Doin it

Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
Post by: R2D2 on October 25, 2017, 12:50:52 pm
Hi all - this is my first post. Would be great to receive some advice.

I recently switched to T enanthate after trying a plethora of other things. It's probably been about a month. The ampoules that I receive in the UK are 250mg/1ml. I have been injecting subq EOD, following the advice in this thread. I'm not taking any HCG or Arimidex in order to attain some baseline values.

Few questions:

1) I've noticed that if I inject into my love handles, the 'effects' e.g. morning erections are much lower than if I inject into the layer of fat in the upper/side region of the buttock cheek (fairly close to the hip bone).

As the half life on enanthate is about 8 days and I inject EOD - should I be injecting into 1 site every 8 days? In other words, I have been using left butt-cheek for injection 1 e.g. Monday. Right buttcheek for injection 2 e.g. Weds. Then left buttcheek for injection 3 (friday).

Thoughts?

2) The values that I have been reading in this thread e.g. 0.13ml subq injection = 30mg testosterone (this is just an example) is based on testosterone cypionate. Is this 'testosterone volume' that discounts the volume of the ester? Or plain injection volume, straight from the ampoule/vial? As I understand, testosterone enanthate volume per ml is 250mg, however the ester consumes 70mg, leaving 180mg of actual testosterone in each 250mg ampoule/ml.

I ask because I have been injecting about 0.11ml subq EOD. This translates to 27.5mg of 'ampoule volume' per subq injection / 19.8mg of actual testosterone when you discount the ester itself.

Thoughts?

Thanks guys
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
Post by: Cataceous on October 25, 2017, 01:58:39 pm
...1) I've noticed that if I inject into my love handles, the 'effects' e.g. morning erections are much lower than if I inject into the layer of fat in the upper/side region of the buttock cheek (fairly close to the hip bone).

As the half life on enanthate is about 8 days and I inject EOD - should I be injecting into 1 site every 8 days? In other words, I have been using left butt-cheek for injection 1 e.g. Monday. Right buttcheek for injection 2 e.g. Weds. Then left buttcheek for injection 3 (friday).
...

There's going to be some individual variation, but I can't think of any reason why you would see differences between these two locations. The testosterone enanthate slowly enters the bloodstream where the ester is cleaved, allowing the testosterone to do its job.

I think a major reason for site rotation is simply to avoid irritating any one location too much. The half life doesn't particularly matter. If you're using small insulin needles then site rotation is barely necessary, as they are minimally disruptive of the tissue. I use enanthate also and I alternate subQ injections between left and right quads.

...
2) The values that I have been reading in this thread e.g. 0.13ml subq injection = 30mg testosterone (this is just an example) is based on testosterone cypionate. Is this 'testosterone volume' that discounts the volume of the ester? Or plain injection volume, straight from the ampoule/vial? As I understand, testosterone enanthate volume per ml is 250mg, however the ester consumes 70mg, leaving 180mg of actual testosterone in each 250mg ampoule/ml.

I ask because I have been injecting about 0.11ml subq EOD. This translates to 27.5mg of 'ampoule volume' per subq injection / 19.8mg of actual testosterone when you discount the ester itself.
...

Volume is volume, no matter what the ester. In fact the vast majority of the volume is going to be carrier oil, typically sesame oil with testosterone enanthate. What counts then is the density, so that you can easily do the translation to weight of the testosterone ester. Your particular formulation has a density of 250 mg/mL, but mine is 200 mg/mL. Your calculation is correct for determining the actual testosterone content. This would mainly be useful if you were going to change or compare esters and wanted to get the same amount of testosterone. Otherwise just stick to thinking about the testosterone ester weight. In my case it's 18 mg EOD, considerably less than your 27.5 mg.
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
Post by: R2D2 on October 26, 2017, 12:34:34 pm
Volume is volume, no matter what the ester. In fact the vast majority of the volume is going to be carrier oil, typically sesame oil with testosterone enanthate. What counts then is the density, so that you can easily do the translation to weight of the testosterone ester. Your particular formulation has a density of 250 mg/mL, but mine is 200 mg/mL. Your calculation is correct for determining the actual testosterone content. This would mainly be useful if you were going to change or compare esters and wanted to get the same amount of testosterone. Otherwise just stick to thinking about the ester weight. In my case it's 18 mg EOD, considerably less than your 27.5 mg.

Thanks for the response. It's great to know that subq site rotation is less important than IM.

I'm not sure that I understand your point re. volume. Test e is essentially a mixture of 180mg test and 70mg ester - yielding a total volume in the ampoule of 250mg/ml. Thus, I don't believe that I am injecting 27.5mg of "actual testosterone" but 19.8mg of testosterone when you take the ester into account. Am I missing something?

This is consistent with the way that I feel too. I feel much more energetic on a 0.01 - 0.02 ml higher dosage - however, I have a E2 issues (hot flashes) which I am trying to avoid. I'm also trying to avoid using an AI if possible, but I'm beginning to think that I will need to use one in order to manage the slightly higher dose of T
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
Post by: Cataceous on October 26, 2017, 01:21:17 pm
I'm not sure that I understand your point re. volume. Test e is essentially a mixture of 180mg test and 70mg ester - yielding a total volume in the ampoule of 250mg/ml. Thus, I don't believe that I am injecting 27.5mg of "actual testosterone" but 19.8mg of testosterone when you take the ester into account. Am I missing something?
...

I think you understand it, but you're not stating it quite right. And at the end of my previous post I said "ester" when I should have said "testosterone ester," which I have corrected. Your particular liquid solution contains 250 mg (weight) of testosterone enanthate for each milliliter of solution (volume). Because the volume of the ampule is one milliliter, the weight of testosterone enanthate in the ampule is 250 mg, of which 72%, or 180 mg, is testosterone and the remaining 70 mg is the ester.

So as you observed, if you're injecting 0.11 mL then injected testosterone is 0.11 mL * (250 mg/mL) * 0.72 = 19.8 mg. But in general you would just tell people that you're injecting 27.5 mg of testosterone enanthate EOD.
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
Post by: R2D2 on October 27, 2017, 12:39:38 pm

So as you observed, if you're injecting 0.11 mL then injected testosterone is 0.11 mL * (250 mg/mL) * 0.72 = 19.8 mg. But in general you would just tell people that you're injecting 27.5 mg of testosterone enanthate EOD.

Thank you for clarifying this, I'll be able to communicate a little more clearly which is great. I've noticed in your signature that you have used the term 'qod' - is this shorthand for every other day? I am considering HCG and DHEA. Perhaps my brainfog symptoms are related more to the other hormones opposed to what I feel is a low dose of T. Thanks
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
Post by: Cataceous on October 27, 2017, 01:01:51 pm
... I've noticed in your signature that you have used the term 'qod' - is this shorthand for every other day? ...

Yes, it's the standard medical abbreviation. Here's a list of some: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_medical_abbreviations:_Q
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
Post by: PeakT on October 28, 2017, 12:50:05 am

Peak,

I think the point the paper is trying to communicate is to establsh the maximum length of needle required to inject a liquid substance (insulin or T, makes no difference) into the fat layer  >99.5 % of the time in most all adults (average BMI, etc.) without getting into the muscle.  And they found that a 4 mm needle will satisfy that requirement.

The paper IS using insulin as the subject liquid but there is no reason the paper cannot be applicable to T as well.  At least, that was my take on it.

Yes, I did read that string and almost commented that you (T guys) have to make sure you are using what they call U-100 insulin syringes (100 units holds 1 cc (or 1 ml), and marked off linearly:  "10" on the body graduations equals 10 units equals 0.1 cc/ml).

Not an expert at syringes in the diabetes world, but I think there are two types: U-100 and U-40. The U-100 is to be used ONLY with U-100 insulin (100 units of insulin per ml) and the U-40 used ONLY with U-40 insulin (40 units of insulin per ml).

There are warnings all over the net not to use U-100 syringes with U-40 insulin and vice versa as the U-40 holds a different amount than the U-100, but can easily be confused with the U-100 ("10" on the body graduations does not equal 0.1 cc/ml type thing).

Doin it

Hmmm.  Unless I'm really missing something, I just need to know the ml.  My goal is to inject .15 ml right now and so I care minimally about the size of the syringe.  Smaller is easier to see the gradations and thus should be more accurate, but this is not a perfect science anyway - a ml here or there is not really going to matter that much.
Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
Post by: doin it on March 26, 2018, 05:33:20 am

A lot of guys do IM injects in the glutes and, I have read, SubQ in the fatty glute areas.  I thought the following may be of interest regarding the Sciatic Nerve and avoiding it during injects.

http://teachmeanatomy.info/lower-limb/nerves/the-sciatic-nerve/

Title: Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
Post by: HughFennell on May 22, 2018, 02:41:58 am
Great read, thanks for sharing!