Peak Testosterone Forum

General Category => Testosterone, Hormones and General Men's Health => Topic started by: adam1973 on November 20, 2012, 01:55:13 am

Title: My Low-T journal
Post by: adam1973 on November 20, 2012, 01:55:13 am
I Have already posted my story in someone else s topic. I will re-post it here and other information as time goes by:

I am male 39 years old, 180, 5'11", I run 9+ miles a week and workout with free weights. I also very recently had my blood tested for Testosterone. I wanted to get tested because I wanted to know where my test levels were. Many weeks (more like months) before I went to the Dr. I was doing research on what type of Anabolic Steroid I might take. I was considering taking AAS because of the issues with workout recovery. I have done AAS (15 years ago) before with excellent results. I stumbled onto many resources touting the positive effects of clomid for men. I ordered the clomid (specifically fertomid-25 90 pills) from an online pharmacy. It arrived and  I started taking 25mg every other day. Withing two weeks I was feeling much better (no fog) morning and night wood again. I thought to myself wow maybe there is something wrong with my test levels. I stopped taking the clomid made an appointment with my GP. I told the doctor that I was disinterested in sex and that it took 3-4 days to recover from working out with weights plus insomnia (Ive had sleep issues for 7+ years). I did not tell the doctor I had been taking clomid and what effect it had on me. I did ask him if he has heard of men taking clomid. He said yes but only for fertility issues. Anyway he gives me the OK to get the blood work done Test, FSH, LH, I wait for about 3 weeks (from the last clomid pill taken) before I get by blood drawn. Immediately after the blood was taken from me I started up with the clomid again at 25mg EOD. Two weeks later my doctor calls me and informs me my test level was 194 and that my FSH & LH are "normal" and that I should start taking test shots. I tell him I would really like to take clomid. He says "No Way". I tell him I am already taking it at 25mg eod and I feel good. He was not happy about my decision and says he will retest me in mid february 2013. I am not happy about this. SO I made an appointment with another Dr. (in the same clinic) for 11/19/2013. I am going to tell this doctor I want another blood test this time I want everything tested. Specifically I want to know how the clomid has effected my Testosterone, LH, & FSH now that I have been on it for more than one month. I want to rule out placebo.

Other results of taking the clomid:
My sleep issues are a little better.
I feel a bit more energetic.
Sex, sex was really never an issue (my wife & I bonk 3-4 times a week) for me until the past year. I was always a horn dog. However over the past year there were times when I just didnt care for it. Sometimes I would not be able to rise to the occasion (but that was rare). Now I want sex but I dont care if I get it or not. No issues with getting hard as a rock.
Title: Re: My Low-T journal
Post by: adam1973 on November 20, 2012, 01:59:08 am
Today I met with my primary care physician today and overall it was a good appointment that lasted about 45 minutes. He has heard of men being on clomid for fertility issues and he is knows that it does boost testosterone levels. I will continue this post in a little while.... kids need attention!
Title: Re: My Low-T journal
Post by: adam1973 on November 20, 2012, 03:32:47 am
My doctor & I talked about the issues with taking clomid. He said he could write the prescription for me to take the drug however, the problem comes with the long term use and liability. He said that what would happen if, after taking clomid for ten plus years, I developed some unusual health issue. He said that I could hold him liable for the health issue because of the clomid. Basically there are no long term studies of men on clomid. My doctor did not flat out reject prescribing the drug to me. He did not dissuade from continuing to take it either. He even commended me for trying an alternative treatment. Furthermore he wants to monitor my testosterone levels for the next few months to see how I am doing. My next blood lab consists of checking the following:

Comprehensive Metabolic Panel, FSH, LH, Progesterone, Prolactin, Testosterone Total, Thyroid Panel with TSH, Thyroid Peroxidase Antibodies, Estrogen Total Serum, DHEA, Free Testosterone

Was there anything else that should be checked?

My followup appointment is in the middle of December.
I did tell him that I was feeling much better meaning, more confident, energy, sex drive, no anxiety issues, basically I feel more alive.....
I do want to rule out the placebo effect and this next blood test should do that.
Title: Re: My Low-T journal
Post by: PeakT on November 20, 2012, 03:40:47 pm
My doctor & I talked about the issues with taking clomid. He said he could write the prescription for me to take the drug however, the problem comes with the long term use and liability. He said that what would happen if, after taking clomid for ten plus years, I developed some unusual health issue. He said that I could hold him liable for the health issue because of the clomid. Basically there are no long term studies of men on clomid. My doctor did not flat out reject prescribing the drug to me. He did not dissuade from continuing to take it either. He even commended me for trying an alternative treatment. Furthermore he wants to monitor my testosterone levels for the next few months to see how I am doing. My next blood lab consists of checking the following:

Actually your doc is not saying directly what is really going on.  Physicians prescribe medications all the time that do not have long term studies with them.  They are finding out all the time that medications are killing people after they've been out on the market for a few years:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Big_Pharma
http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Medicine_Kills

Medications are tested pretty extensively but they don't test all the stuff they really should test.  Do they look at mitochondrial function? How they drug affects neurotransmitters?  Hormones?  Gut flora?  It's already an expensive process, so they skip all that and then you get what you get.

Anyway, what is really going on is that it is OFF LABEL.  That's the real issue here.  No one has given its blessing for this usage.  My guess is that you may have to go to a fertility doc for this or maybe a sports medicine guy.

And, by the way, I'm not saying you should.  No one really knows if Clomid has long term effects after decades of use.  But that's a decision that you seem to have made already.

And, yes, that looks like a good panel.  Vitamin D, CRP, glycated hemoglobin, fibrinogen, RBCs would be good also (if you have the money of course), although a lot of docs pull those now:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/testosterone_tests
Title: Re: My Low-T journal
Post by: adam1973 on December 05, 2012, 10:07:49 pm
I have a followup appointment with my dr on 12/13 to go over my latest blood test. However, I have not gotten my blood drawn for the upcoming appointment yet because of sleep issues. I have been having chronic insomnia for the past two weeks. As a result I have not been getting adequate sleep and I am worried if I get my blood tested without adequate sleep my results will be all screwed up. I dont know what to do!
Title: Re: My Low-T journal
Post by: PeakT on December 06, 2012, 12:34:40 am
I have a followup appointment with my dr on 12/13 to go over my latest blood test. However, I have not gotten my blood drawn for the upcoming appointment yet because of sleep issues. I have been having chronic insomnia for the past two weeks. As a result I have not been getting adequate sleep and I am worried if I get my blood tested without adequate sleep my results will be all screwed up. I dont know what to do!

What about trying some of these natural sleep aids?

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/sleep2

(Talk to your doc's office first though.)

Also, here are some more things to consider about Clomid and possibly discuss with your doctor:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Clomid_Risk
Title: Re: My Low-T journal
Post by: adam1973 on December 06, 2012, 05:31:00 pm
Blood work done this morning before 9 am. I woke up at 7:45 am. I slept (albeit drug induced) for 6 hours straight woke up but fell back asleep for another hour. They took 6 vials of blood.
Title: Re: My Low-T journal
Post by: PeakT on December 06, 2012, 06:11:28 pm
Blood work done this morning before 9 am. I woke up at 7:45 am. I slept (albeit drug induced) for 6 hours straight woke up but fell back asleep for another hour. They took 6 vials of blood.

If you're talking about Ambien, watch for that stuff.  Nasty side effects when you do have them.

Let us know what they find out if you have time...
Title: Re: My Low-T journal
Post by: adam1973 on December 06, 2012, 08:02:55 pm
My go to sleep drugs are ativan & Benadryl. I used to take ambien but I noticed that I became paranoid and moody the next day. Ativan works good I take it maybe twice a week.
Title: Re: My Low-T journal
Post by: PeakT on December 06, 2012, 08:15:31 pm
My go to sleep drugs are ativan & Benadryl. I used to take ambien but I noticed that I became paranoid and moody the next day. Ativan works good I take it maybe twice a week.

Imo you don't want to take Benadryl nightly.  It has been tied to mild dementia in seniors - see #2:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Medicine_Kills
Title: Re: My Low-T journal
Post by: adam1973 on December 07, 2012, 03:28:11 am
I am tempted to take one half of one of my Airmidex pills just to see how I feel. I know it's got a half life of 48 hours.
Title: Re: My Low-T journal
Post by: PeakT on December 07, 2012, 03:40:26 am
C'mon.  12/13 isn't that far out...
 
Title: Re: My Low-T journal
Post by: adam1973 on December 09, 2012, 09:41:06 pm
Yeah, I couldnt wait. I took 0.25mg of Airmidex 40 minutes ago. I just wanted to see how I felt. I doubt it will affect me.
Title: Re: My Low-T journal
Post by: adam1973 on December 10, 2012, 09:06:52 pm
anyone want to wager on what my testosterone level will be at? I will find out in three days. What do you think itll be at? 200-300, 300-400, 400-500, or (doubtful) 500-600
Title: Re: My Low-T journal
Post by: adam1973 on December 14, 2012, 01:03:57 am
I got my test results and after being on clomid for about 2 months here are the results from quest Diagnostics:
Thyroid Panel:
T3 Uptake ----- 33
T4 Total ------ 7.9
Free T4 ----- 2.6
TSH ------ 2.37

Estrogen,  total, serum ------  <50 (less than 50?)

DHEA Sulfate ------- 209

FSH ------- 6.7
LH -------3.2
Testosterone, Free -------  119.6
Testosterone, Total ------ 650 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There was also a comprehensive Metabolic Pannel and everything is within range. My Doctor was shocked at how much my testosterone went up. He didnt think it would go up that much. He has written me an ongoing prescription for clomid!

I tried taking the airmidex but I have been feeling like shit so I am no longer going to take it.
Title: Re: My Low-T journal
Post by: PeakT on December 14, 2012, 05:53:18 am
Hey, sorry I am confused.  Those results are from what day?  And what medication(s) were you on when you had the blood drawn?  And what medication(s) had you been on in the last few weeks before your blood was drawn?

Also, check this out when you have a chance:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Clomid_Risk
Title: Re: My Low-T journal
Post by: adam1973 on December 14, 2012, 09:00:18 pm
The blood was drawn 12/7/2012 at about 9am (after a shitty night of sleep) The only medications I was on, at the time of the blood draw, was 25mcg of synthroid (which ive been on for the past 1.5 years) and the clomid (25mg every other day). Ive only been on clomid and synthroid.
Title: Re: My Low-T journal
Post by: adam1973 on December 14, 2012, 09:04:30 pm
Ill repost the lab results with reference ranges later today as I do not have the sheet of paper with me right now. However I do remember that the reference for total test was 250-1150
Title: Re: My Low-T journal
Post by: PeakT on December 14, 2012, 09:37:32 pm
Okay, that helps.  So did they pull an actual estradiol number?  As you know, that is dang near as important as the testosterone number - yin and yang you know...
Title: Re: My Low-T journal
Post by: adam1973 on December 14, 2012, 09:58:38 pm
it just says <50 and then it specifies the range. Also, I tried taking the anti-estrogen pills this week (0.25mg on sunday and tuesday). I felt like shit so I stopped taking them.
Title: Re: My Low-T journal
Post by: PeakT on December 14, 2012, 10:26:04 pm
Okay, what exactly is the issue you are trying to solve.  I read through your posts again and it likes you're in pretty good shape, right?
Title: Re: My Low-T journal
Post by: adam1973 on December 15, 2012, 12:03:46 am
I'm in decent shape. However I am hypogonal (was tested). I was feeling run down for a long time. What I mean is I was having libido, fog, anxiety,..... Since I started my journey I have felt significantly better. Also, my libido has always been high. I cod have sex 2-4 times a day. I suspected something was f'd up when I just had NO desire for sex. Also, when I completed a workout( cardio & or weights) I felt like shit. The issue I'm most concerned with solving is my libido and to stop feeling like such a pussy. I feel like I have.

Also, I'm getting an MRI soon!
Title: Re: My Low-T journal
Post by: PeakT on December 15, 2012, 02:30:34 am
I'm in decent shape. However I am hypogonal (was tested). I was feeling run down for a long time. What I mean is I was having libido, fog, anxiety,..... Since I started my journey I have felt significantly better. Also, my libido has always been high. I cod have sex 2-4 times a day. I suspected something was f'd up when I just had NO desire for sex. Also, when I completed a workout( cardio & or weights) I felt like shit. The issue I'm most concerned with solving is my libido and to stop feeling like such a pussy. I feel like I have.

Also, I'm getting an MRI soon!

Aahh.  Okay, so the libido is somewhat down.  Well, you know that one of the sides of Clomid is no effect on libido or sometimes even lessened libido, right?  So I guess you're asking wha tyou can do to overcome (potentially) the effects of the Clomid?

Gotcha.  And can I ask they are going to check on (with the MRI)?
Title: Re: My Low-T journal
Post by: adam1973 on December 15, 2012, 02:32:15 pm
No. my libido was down (way down) before I started taking the clomid. Now that I've been on it (the clomid) it (my libido) is back up. The only thing that is negatively affecting my libido right now is my insomnia. The MRI is for my pituitary. Its what they look at if you are secondary hypogonadal to see if there is a tumor.
Title: Re: My Low-T journal
Post by: PeakT on December 15, 2012, 02:53:34 pm
Wow.  That's int'g about the MRI.  I think that's a great idea, but it quite uncommon to check for that over here.  Usually, it is only done from what I've seen if you have high prolactin levels.

Well, have you tried some of the standard natural sleep aid things?

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/sleep2

Btw, I assume you know this:  but you really want to avoid staring into a TV or computer screen after about 8 or 9 pm...
Title: Re: My Low-T journal
Post by: adam1973 on December 17, 2012, 04:09:28 pm
I wanted to include the reference ranges with my lab report.

My Lab results from Quest Diagnostics with Reference range
T3 Uptake ----- 33 ----------------Reference range ---------------> 22-35%
T4 Total ------ 7.9 ----------------Reference range ---------------> 4.5-12.0 mcg/dL
Free T4 ----- 2.6 ----------------Reference range ---------------> 1.4-3.8
TSH ------ 2.37 ----------------Reference range ---------------> 0.4-4.50 mIU/L

Estrogen, total, serum ------ <50 (less than 50?) ---------Reference range ------> 130 or less pg/mL

DHEA Sulfate ------- 209 ----------------Reference range ---------------> 110-370 mcg/dL

FSH ------- 6.7 ----------------Reference range ---------------> 1.6-8.0mIU/mL
LH -------3.2 ----------------Reference range ---------------> 1.5-9.3 mIU/mL
Testosterone , Free ------- 119.6 ----------------Reference range ---------------> 35.0-155.0 pg/mL
Testosterone, Total ------ 650 ----------------Reference range ---------------> 250-1100 ng/dL

progesterone ------ 0.5 ----------------Reference range ---------------> <1.4 ng/mL
prolactin ------ 5.2 ----------------Reference range ---------------> 2.0-18.0 ng/dL

What do you guys think? I do not have the previous lab with me but I will get it. The previous lab was just for Total Test, FSH, LH
Title: Re: My Low-T journal
Post by: PeakT on December 17, 2012, 04:19:36 pm
You are a rare case:  everything is right in the middle.  For example, when you get to the upper or lower end of some of the thyroid ranges, some doctors will now treat you with symptoms.  But you're square in the middle.  Same thing with prolactin/LH/FSH.  But that's a good thing of course....
Title: Re: My Low-T journal
Post by: adam1973 on December 17, 2012, 04:23:34 pm
Yeah I noticed everything seems to be almost in the middle as well. I was thinking maybe this is a bogus report. If it is Ill find out because I am getting another set of bloodwork done at the end of January and I have another appointment with a different doctor to go over the results.

The thing I am curious about is why the latest test was not affected by my insomnia.
Title: Re: My Low-T journal
Post by: PeakT on December 17, 2012, 04:35:12 pm

The thing I am curious about is why the latest test was not affected by my insomnia.

I'm sure it did somewhat.  But sleep issues don't generally annhilate hormone levels, they just negatively adjust them somewhat.  And that makes sense if you think about it:  humans have had to be able to handle extended periods of time with less sleep.  But over the years and decades, it can affect your health negatively of course.

Also, it's good to be retested, but I would start looking in other directions if you're not already. 
Title: Re: My Low-T journal
Post by: adam1973 on December 18, 2012, 04:43:47 pm
I got ahold of the lab results from my first testosterone test.

FSH 3.5 ------ reference range -------> 1.6-8.0mIU/mL
LH 4.4 ------ reference range -------> 1.5-9.3mIU/mL
Total Testosterone 194 ------ reference range -------> 241-827ng/dL

Other info:
The specimen (bloodwork) was collected at 13:55 (1:55PM)

Im sure the time the blood was taken had to account for the Total T being low.
Title: Re: My Low-T journal
Post by: PeakT on December 18, 2012, 05:06:39 pm
I got ahold of the lab results from my first testosterone test.

FSH 3.5 ------ reference range -------> 1.6-8.0mIU/mL
LH 4.4 ------ reference range -------> 1.5-9.3mIU/mL
Total Testosterone 194 ------ reference range -------> 241-827ng/dL

Other info:
The specimen (bloodwork) was collected at 13:55 (1:55PM)

Im sure the time the blood was taken had to account for the Total T being low.

Ouch!  Well, the Clomid really did the trick for you I guess.  Notice that your LH/FSH is quite reasonable leaving kids as an option.  Can't remember if I posted this but imo be careful with long term usage:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Clomid_Risk