Peak Testosterone Forum

General Category => Testosterone, Hormones and General Men's Health => Topic started by: Regulus on July 07, 2015, 04:12:08 am

Title: Mushrooms Probably Lowered My Estradiol But Switching to Anastrazole
Post by: Regulus on July 07, 2015, 04:12:08 am
So, I've been able to control my estradiol pretty well using various dietary aromatase inhibitors.  Most effective have been mushrooms and cruciferous veggies, and recently had a pretty good success with chamomile.   However, it gets impractical to make sure to eat a couple pounds of mushrooms a week, and you can't always drink four glasses of iced tea with chamomile, and I was never 100% sure how much I needed it anyway.   So I went a couple weeks avoiding mushrooms and chamomile, and didn't avoid crucifers but didn't eat a ton of them.

Lab results came back, and my E2 went from around 25 at last reading to 79.   (Total T was in the 900's both times.)

I was not surprised it was that high.   During this experiment I completely lost all libido, and started having trouble holding back the tears at typical tear-jerker stuff.

OK, so, first of all, yay mushrooms (and for someone who is just a little high, they might be a practical solution) but still, not practical to have to eat them in the quantity I was doing.  Obviously they were needed, but it's just not practical to have too keep cooking them and fitting them in such a large quantity into my diet.   So, something else has to give.

So, my doc and I discussed this and I've started anastrazole, 1/2 mg every other day.   Going to test again in 3 months, and see where the numbers are, as well as watching symptoms.

So, I started a week ago.   Had an almost immediate start of improvement in emotional stability and sexual function, both of which have continued to improve.   Two questions for the field:

1.   Based on the half life of anastrazole (3-4 days I believe), after about two weeks I should be at a steady level of where I'm going to be on this dose.   So, how long after that should I expect that E2 levels will get to where they are going to get at this dose?   I would assume not too long afterwards, but should I expect to be there pretty much at two weeks?   A week later?   Two weeks later?   

2.    My doc suggested I consider a bone-density scan, up front and then assuming I stay on it, about five years in.   To me this seems unnecessary, but I appreciate that she's looking out for me pretty thoroughly.   Question:   is the risk of osteoporosis and such due to the drug itself, or is it due to low E2 levels?    On a low dose, and without intending to keep E2 abnormally low, is osteo a sufficient risk to be doing something like that?   

Advice appreciated.
Title: Re: Mushrooms Probably Lowered My Estradiol But Switching to Anastrazole
Post by: xrayguy on July 07, 2015, 04:44:35 am
2.    My doc suggested I consider a bone-density scan, up front and then assuming I stay on it, about five years in.   To me this seems unnecessary, but I appreciate that she's looking out for me pretty thoroughly.   Question:   is the risk of osteoporosis and such due to the drug itself, or is it due to low E2 levels?    On a low dose, and without intending to keep E2 abnormally low, is osteo a sufficient risk to be doing something like that?

Osteo is not caused by the drug itself, it can be caused by the effect of the drug which is to lower E2. If your E2 is below normal for too long, osteo can result as E2 is needed to rebuild bone. Use of Arimidex in men is off label, the drugs primary purpose is for treating breast cancer in women. Breast cancer tumors have a tendency to feed off of E2, so they treat women for 5 years with Arimidex to lower their E2 and starve the tumor. Because the E2 is lowered substantially for this period of time, osteo is a concern for a breast cancer patient taking Arimidex.

For us guys taking Arimidex to lower E2, we are using a smaller dose to lower E2 into a NORMAL range for a man. As a result, osteo should never occur. Regular monitoring of E2 levels for men while on Arimidex is to ensure you are not getting too high a dose and lowering your E2 too much.

Your doctor probably recommended a BMD test now to get a baseline of where your bone mineral density is currently, then compare it with another BMD test done in 5 years. First off, a BMD test exposes you to radiation. Second, a second BMD test 5 years later exposes you to even more radiation and you don't want to be finding out you have osteo 5 years later. I think the best thing to do is to start with a low dose of Arimidex and monitor E2 regularly to make sure it is in a proper range for a male. I would pass on the BMD test unless you have symptoms of osteo.
Title: Re: Mushrooms Probably Lowered My Estradiol But Switching to Anastrazole
Post by: PeakT on July 07, 2015, 07:42:04 am
I think geting tested is a great idea and make you use the right test for monitoring.  They always measured me a month after any protocol change.
Title: Re: Mushrooms Probably Lowered My Estradiol But Switching to Anastrazole
Post by: juancar05 on July 07, 2015, 12:19:05 pm
Wowww amazing mushrooms!! It's incredible. Thank you for that interesting study.
I think that dietary AI effects will change in each person, but is good to know a success case. Yes, I see you said "pounds of mushrooms a week" but it was "successful".
I have high E2, and next week I will start with anastrozol, 0.25mg twice a week.
Title: Re: Mushrooms Probably Lowered My Estradiol But Switching to Anastrazole
Post by: Cataceous on July 07, 2015, 01:09:35 pm
Your doctor probably recommended a BMD test now to get a baseline of where your bone mineral density is currently, then compare it with another BMD test done in 5 years. First off, a BMD test exposes you to radiation. Second, a second BMD test 5 years later exposes you to even more radiation and you don't want to be finding out you have osteo 5 years later. I think the best thing to do is to start with a low dose of Arimidex and monitor E2 regularly to make sure it is in a proper range for a male. I would pass on the BMD test unless you have symptoms of osteo.

The radiation exposure isn't a good reason to skip the DEXA scan; it's trivial. For example (http://www.bodycompositionqld.com.au/handouts/radiation.pdf):
Quote
The dose associated with DEXA BMD measurement (lumbar spine and femur) was described as low or even insignificant in comparison with natural background radiation levels, well below the background value of about 7ÁSv per day (Njeh et al. 1999).

I had one showing I was borderline to osteopenia. The docs only recommended adequate calcium and vitamin D.
Title: Re: Mushrooms Probably Lowered My Estradiol But Switching to Anastrazole
Post by: PeakT on July 07, 2015, 03:20:19 pm
Regulus:

That was amazing about the mushrooms!  Like I always say, "Food is clinical..."

You've been around the block, so you probably know all this, but just in case:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Which_Estradiol_Test_Best
Title: Re: Mushrooms Probably Lowered My Estradiol But Switching to Anastrazole
Post by: Regulus on July 07, 2015, 10:04:00 pm
I think geting tested is a great idea and make you use the right test for monitoring.  They always measured me a month after any protocol change.

Yeah, unfortunately I live in New York ....
Title: Re: Mushrooms Probably Lowered My Estradiol But Switching to Anastrazole
Post by: PeakT on July 07, 2015, 11:17:28 pm
I think geting tested is a great idea and make you use the right test for monitoring.  They always measured me a month after any protocol change.

Yeah, unfortunately I live in New York ....

Well, it's comforting to know that the state government has your best interests always in mind and want to control every aspect of your medical life, eh?
Title: Re: Mushrooms Probably Lowered My Estradiol But Switching to Anastrazole
Post by: Regulus on July 07, 2015, 11:39:19 pm
I do think that if someone is borderline high, working mushrooms into your diet on a regular and intentional basis might be a good way to keep things a little lower, with the idea that if you don't get enough, you're not going super high anyway so not optimal but no big deal.   

For me it's just I'm way too high without something to bring it down, I'm not sure what other foods are or are not helping, and feeling like I have to cook, clean, and eat a couple pounds a week is just not practical.   Also, while I am attributing the difference to the mushrooms (and there are studies to support that conclusion) there is no definitive way of knowing that they were what was doing it.

Title: Re: Mushrooms Probably Lowered My Estradiol But Switching to Anastrazole
Post by: PeakT on July 08, 2015, 03:24:44 am
I do think that if someone is borderline high, working mushrooms into your diet on a regular and intentional basis might be a good way to keep things a little lower, with the idea that if you don't get enough, you're not going super high anyway so not optimal but no big deal.   

For me it's just I'm way too high without something to bring it down, I'm not sure what other foods are or are not helping, and feeling like I have to cook, clean, and eat a couple pounds a week is just not practical.   Also, while I am attributing the difference to the mushrooms (and there are studies to support that conclusion) there is no definitive way of knowing that they were what was doing it.

Well, assume just for a minute that it was the dietary foods lowering your estradiol.  Broccoli, at least the amount in food, is not supposed to lower it at all according to what I have read but just shift the metabolite profile to a more positive one.  So I'm thinking it's got to be the mushrooms (again, assuming there was a true effect). 

So how many cups a night were you eating of these mushrooms?  Sounds like you were pretty casual about it?  If that's really all it is, it doesn't sound too bad, right?

Were you just eating the standard cooking mushrooms you but everywhere?  Or were these shitaki or portobello or something?
Title: Re: Mushrooms Probably Lowered My Estradiol But Switching to Anastrazole
Post by: Hydranted on July 08, 2015, 06:53:14 am
That's an extremely aggressive dose of Adex.  While you may need it to help manage your E2, starting at such a high dose is likely going to end poorly.  This dose will essentially block all aromatization of testosterone to E2 when used with any reasonable dose of testosterone.  Men need estradiol for many important bodily functions, so eliminating it from the hormonal equation is going to be problematic.

It may take some time for symptoms to occur, but I would be absolutely shocked if this dose didn't cause some very uncomfortable side effects for you in the near future. 

A dose like this will also likely result in some pretty significant negative effects on your lipids.

I'd strongly urge you to rethink such an extreme addition to your protocol.   
Title: Re: Mushrooms Probably Lowered My Estradiol But Switching to Anastrazole
Post by: Regulus on July 08, 2015, 11:22:36 am
That's an extremely aggressive dose of Adex.  While you may need it to help manage your E2, starting at such a high dose is likely going to end poorly.  This dose will essentially block all aromatization of testosterone to E2 when used with any reasonable dose of testosterone.  Men need estradiol for many important bodily functions, so eliminating it from the hormonal equation is going to be problematic.

It may take some time for symptoms to occur, but I would be absolutely shocked if this dose didn't cause some very uncomfortable side effects for you in the near future. 

A dose like this will also likely result in some pretty significant negative effects on your lipids.

I'd strongly urge you to rethink such an extreme addition to your protocol.

1/4 mg per day is extremely high?   My doc originally suggested 1 mg/ day, which definitely is high.  1/4 mg per day seems kind of middle of the road from what I've seen others using, especially given that I am very high without it. 

I do understand that going too low is a risk on any dose.  Test and correct means the possibility of overshooting and having to deal with a few lousy weeks potentially.

But actually that was why I was asking about how long before you reach the steady state E2 level for a given dose.   Right now I feel great, but I'm probably not to steady state yet.  I'm guessing that it's somewhere around 2.5-3 weeks in that stability is reached, and at that point I'll be able to judge.  But if anybody has better info than that guess, I'd appreciate it. 

I can't order self tests in my state, and The amount of testing that my doctor can order an insurance will cover is decent but limited. Since self-testing is not available in the state, if she orders any tests that are not covered by insurance, the lab charges are outrageous.   However, she is agreeable to my reducing the dose based on symptoms if I start to experience low e2 symptoms.  So, wondering when that might be. 

Thanks for the recommendations in any case.
Title: Re: Mushrooms Probably Lowered My Estradiol But Switching to Anastrazole
Post by: Regulus on July 08, 2015, 11:34:55 am
I do think that if someone is borderline high, working mushrooms into your diet on a regular and intentional basis might be a good way to keep things a little lower, with the idea that if you don't get enough, you're not going super high anyway so not optimal but no big deal.   

For me it's just I'm way too high without something to bring it down, I'm not sure what other foods are or are not helping, and feeling like I have to cook, clean, and eat a couple pounds a week is just not practical.   Also, while I am attributing the difference to the mushrooms (and there are studies to support that conclusion) there is no definitive way of knowing that they were what was doing it.

Well, assume just for a minute that it was the dietary foods lowering your estradiol.  Broccoli, at least the amount in food, is not supposed to lower it at all according to what I have read but just shift the metabolite profile to a more positive one.  So I'm thinking it's got to be the mushrooms (again, assuming there was a true effect). 

So how many cups a night were you eating of these mushrooms?  Sounds like you were pretty casual about it?  If that's really all it is, it doesn't sound too bad, right?

Were you just eating the standard cooking mushrooms you but everywhere?  Or were these shitaki or portobello or something?

Oh I think it probably was the shrooms, just can't say for certain. 

Supposedly all types work to some extent, but in tests they have found that the most effective mushrooms against aromatase are white button mushrooms.   The cheap and easily available ones.  Portobellos and criminal (the small brown ones) are the exact same species as white buttons, so presumably their effect is comparable.

I was buying three pounds of brown "baby Bella" criminal mushrooms a week, cleaning and slicing them, and cooking them up in a little olive oil.   Over the course of the week I'd eat around 1/7 of that batch daily.   Added to salads or as a topping on sandwiches, or just as a snack. 

I'd also cook with mushrooms whenever possible.  In addition to the above. 

Not bad to do, mushrooms are tasty and super good for you in a lot of ways.  However, keeping that up is not practical.  Impossible when traveling.  Hard to prioritize the weekly cooking and cleaning when there are other things to do.   And honestly eating a bunch of mushrooms every single day really gets old. 

So I think they work, and probably are beneficial if you are just trying to nudge things down.  If I can drop that last 15 pounds of flab and cut back on the booze (I'm a very moderate drinker but could still do with less of that) maybe I might get E2 down to something like 40 or so, high but not disastrously so, and then just keep eating the mushrooms to nudge things down a bit.  That would be reasonable.  What it was taking to get my apparent ground state near 80 down to something tolerable was just ridiculous though.  Really cool that it worked, but not a practical solution for me. 

Title: Re: Mushrooms Probably Lowered My Estradiol But Switching to Anastrazole
Post by: Cataceous on July 08, 2015, 02:25:37 pm
Just be sure to adequately cook your 'shrooms.

Quote
Buttons, and many other edible mushrooms contain various hydrazines, a group of chemical compounds generally considered carcinogenic. For the most part, these compounds are heat sensitive, readily volatilized and expunged from the fungal flesh by proper cooking.

Link (http://www.mykoweb.com/articles/EatingRawMushrooms.html).
Title: Re: Mushrooms Probably Lowered My Estradiol But Switching to Anastrazole
Post by: PeakT on July 08, 2015, 04:19:01 pm
Just be sure to adequately cook your 'shrooms.

Quote
Buttons, and many other edible mushrooms contain various hydrazines, a group of chemical compounds generally considered carcinogenic. For the most part, these compounds are heat sensitive, readily volatilized and expunged from the fungal flesh by proper cooking.

Link (http://www.mykoweb.com/articles/EatingRawMushrooms.html).

Got it...
Title: Re: Mushrooms Probably Lowered My Estradiol But Switching to Anastrazole
Post by: PeakT on July 08, 2015, 04:21:27 pm
I do think that if someone is borderline high, working mushrooms into your diet on a regular and intentional basis might be a good way to keep things a little lower, with the idea that if you don't get enough, you're not going super high anyway so not optimal but no big deal.   

For me it's just I'm way too high without something to bring it down, I'm not sure what other foods are or are not helping, and feeling like I have to cook, clean, and eat a couple pounds a week is just not practical.   Also, while I am attributing the difference to the mushrooms (and there are studies to support that conclusion) there is no definitive way of knowing that they were what was doing it.

Well, assume just for a minute that it was the dietary foods lowering your estradiol.  Broccoli, at least the amount in food, is not supposed to lower it at all according to what I have read but just shift the metabolite profile to a more positive one.  So I'm thinking it's got to be the mushrooms (again, assuming there was a true effect). 

So how many cups a night were you eating of these mushrooms?  Sounds like you were pretty casual about it?  If that's really all it is, it doesn't sound too bad, right?

Were you just eating the standard cooking mushrooms you but everywhere?  Or were these shitaki or portobello or something?

Oh I think it probably was the shrooms, just can't say for certain. 

Supposedly all types work to some extent, but in tests they have found that the most effective mushrooms against aromatase are white button mushrooms.   The cheap and easily available ones.  Portobellos and criminal (the small brown ones) are the exact same species as white buttons, so presumably their effect is comparable.

I was buying three pounds of brown "baby Bella" criminal mushrooms a week, cleaning and slicing them, and cooking them up in a little olive oil.   Over the course of the week I'd eat around 1/7 of that batch daily.   Added to salads or as a topping on sandwiches, or just as a snack. 

I'd also cook with mushrooms whenever possible.  In addition to the above. 

Not bad to do, mushrooms are tasty and super good for you in a lot of ways.  However, keeping that up is not practical.  Impossible when traveling.  Hard to prioritize the weekly cooking and cleaning when there are other things to do.   And honestly eating a bunch of mushrooms every single day really gets old. 

So I think they work, and probably are beneficial if you are just trying to nudge things down.  If I can drop that last 15 pounds of flab and cut back on the booze (I'm a very moderate drinker but could still do with less of that) maybe I might get E2 down to something like 40 or so, high but not disastrously so, and then just keep eating the mushrooms to nudge things down a bit.  That would be reasonable.  What it was taking to get my apparent ground state near 80 down to something tolerable was just ridiculous though.  Really cool that it worked, but not a practical solution for me.

Well, that would get a little old, but it might be a LOT safer than Arimidex.  Arimidex, at least from what I have read, messes with the clotting cascade.  Perhaps eating that many mushrooms does too, but I doubt it.

Also, I have actually not found any authority evidence that Arimidex does the above.  In fact, check this out:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11422000

Where I got that, though, is from this commentary:

http://www.excelmale.com/showthread.php?1507-Can-Testosterone-Induce-Blood-Clots-and-Thrombosis-Interview-with-Dr-Charles-Glueck&highlight=glueck

"Dr Glueck: We have data to show that when T is aromatized in the body to estradiol (E2), the high E2 may be the agent which directly interacts with the underlying thrombophilia to produce the clots. We do not have enough data to know whether Arimidex used to lower E2 would be protective, but we know that Arimidex alone is prothrombotic in all of the thrombophilias and hence, probably not a good idea."
Title: Re: Mushrooms Probably Lowered My Estradiol But Switching to Anastrazole
Post by: Hydranted on July 08, 2015, 05:15:11 pm
That's an extremely aggressive dose of Adex.  While you may need it to help manage your E2, starting at such a high dose is likely going to end poorly.  This dose will essentially block all aromatization of testosterone to E2 when used with any reasonable dose of testosterone.  Men need estradiol for many important bodily functions, so eliminating it from the hormonal equation is going to be problematic.

It may take some time for symptoms to occur, but I would be absolutely shocked if this dose didn't cause some very uncomfortable side effects for you in the near future. 

A dose like this will also likely result in some pretty significant negative effects on your lipids.

I'd strongly urge you to rethink such an extreme addition to your protocol.

1/4 mg per day is extremely high?   My doc originally suggested 1 mg/ day, which definitely is high.  1/4 mg per day seems kind of middle of the road from what I've seen others using, especially given that I am very high without it. 

I do understand that going too low is a risk on any dose.  Test and correct means the possibility of overshooting and having to deal with a few lousy weeks potentially.

But actually that was why I was asking about how long before you reach the steady state E2 level for a given dose.   Right now I feel great, but I'm probably not to steady state yet.  I'm guessing that it's somewhere around 2.5-3 weeks in that stability is reached, and at that point I'll be able to judge.  But if anybody has better info than that guess, I'd appreciate it. 

I can't order self tests in my state, and The amount of testing that my doctor can order an insurance will cover is decent but limited. Since self-testing is not available in the state, if she orders any tests that are not covered by insurance, the lab charges are outrageous.   However, she is agreeable to my reducing the dose based on symptoms if I start to experience low e2 symptoms.  So, wondering when that might be. 

Thanks for the recommendations in any case.



Your original post stated that you would be taking .5mg every other day rather than .25mg every day.

Title: Re: Mushrooms Probably Lowered My Estradiol But Switching to Anastrazole
Post by: Regulus on July 08, 2015, 07:48:38 pm
That's an extremely aggressive dose of Adex.  While you may need it to help manage your E2, starting at such a high dose is likely going to end poorly.  This dose will essentially block all aromatization of testosterone to E2 when used with any reasonable dose of testosterone.  Men need estradiol for many important bodily functions, so eliminating it from the hormonal equation is going to be problematic.

It may take some time for symptoms to occur, but I would be absolutely shocked if this dose didn't cause some very uncomfortable side effects for you in the near future. 

A dose like this will also likely result in some pretty significant negative effects on your lipids.

I'd strongly urge you to rethink such an extreme addition to your protocol.

1/4 mg per day is extremely high?   My doc originally suggested 1 mg/ day, which definitely is high.  1/4 mg per day seems kind of middle of the road from what I've seen others using, especially given that I am very high without it. 

I do understand that going too low is a risk on any dose.  Test and correct means the possibility of overshooting and having to deal with a few lousy weeks potentially.

But actually that was why I was asking about how long before you reach the steady state E2 level for a given dose.   Right now I feel great, but I'm probably not to steady state yet.  I'm guessing that it's somewhere around 2.5-3 weeks in that stability is reached, and at that point I'll be able to judge.  But if anybody has better info than that guess, I'd appreciate it. 

I can't order self tests in my state, and The amount of testing that my doctor can order an insurance will cover is decent but limited. Since self-testing is not available in the state, if she orders any tests that are not covered by insurance, the lab charges are outrageous.   However, she is agreeable to my reducing the dose based on symptoms if I start to experience low e2 symptoms.  So, wondering when that might be. 

Thanks for the recommendations in any case.



Your original post stated that you would be taking .5mg every other day rather than .25mg every day.

Yes that is correct.  .5 mg every other day equates to .25 mg per day.  Since the half life is somewhere in the 3-4 days range, I didn't think it would make much difference doing daily vs eod.  Am I missing something?
Title: Re: Mushrooms Probably Lowered My Estradiol But Switching to Anastrazole
Post by: PeakT on July 08, 2015, 08:47:23 pm
That's an extremely aggressive dose of Adex.  While you may need it to help manage your E2, starting at such a high dose is likely going to end poorly.  This dose will essentially block all aromatization of testosterone to E2 when used with any reasonable dose of testosterone.  Men need estradiol for many important bodily functions, so eliminating it from the hormonal equation is going to be problematic.

It may take some time for symptoms to occur, but I would be absolutely shocked if this dose didn't cause some very uncomfortable side effects for you in the near future. 

A dose like this will also likely result in some pretty significant negative effects on your lipids.

I'd strongly urge you to rethink such an extreme addition to your protocol.

1/4 mg per day is extremely high?   My doc originally suggested 1 mg/ day, which definitely is high.  1/4 mg per day seems kind of middle of the road from what I've seen others using, especially given that I am very high without it. 

I do understand that going too low is a risk on any dose.  Test and correct means the possibility of overshooting and having to deal with a few lousy weeks potentially.

But actually that was why I was asking about how long before you reach the steady state E2 level for a given dose.   Right now I feel great, but I'm probably not to steady state yet.  I'm guessing that it's somewhere around 2.5-3 weeks in that stability is reached, and at that point I'll be able to judge.  But if anybody has better info than that guess, I'd appreciate it. 

I can't order self tests in my state, and The amount of testing that my doctor can order an insurance will cover is decent but limited. Since self-testing is not available in the state, if she orders any tests that are not covered by insurance, the lab charges are outrageous.   However, she is agreeable to my reducing the dose based on symptoms if I start to experience low e2 symptoms.  So, wondering when that might be. 

Thanks for the recommendations in any case.



Your original post stated that you would be taking .5mg every other day rather than .25mg every day.

Yes that is correct.  .5 mg every other day equates to .25 mg per day.  Since the half life is somewhere in the 3-4 days range, I didn't think it would make much difference doing daily vs eod.  Am I missing something?

fyi:

At my old clinic, they started me on .5 mg twice a week - and this was after running labs of course.  I crashed my estradiol once by doing it EOD.  Their rule was every three days and never every two days.  Just passing along info...
Title: Re: Mushrooms Probably Lowered My Estradiol But Switching to Anastrazole
Post by: Regulus on July 08, 2015, 10:15:06 pm
That's an extremely aggressive dose of Adex.  While you may need it to help manage your E2, starting at such a high dose is likely going to end poorly.  This dose will essentially block all aromatization of testosterone to E2 when used with any reasonable dose of testosterone.  Men need estradiol for many important bodily functions, so eliminating it from the hormonal equation is going to be problematic.

It may take some time for symptoms to occur, but I would be absolutely shocked if this dose didn't cause some very uncomfortable side effects for you in the near future. 

A dose like this will also likely result in some pretty significant negative effects on your lipids.

I'd strongly urge you to rethink such an extreme addition to your protocol.

1/4 mg per day is extremely high?   My doc originally suggested 1 mg/ day, which definitely is high.  1/4 mg per day seems kind of middle of the road from what I've seen others using, especially given that I am very high without it. 

I do understand that going too low is a risk on any dose.  Test and correct means the possibility of overshooting and having to deal with a few lousy weeks potentially.

But actually that was why I was asking about how long before you reach the steady state E2 level for a given dose.   Right now I feel great, but I'm probably not to steady state yet.  I'm guessing that it's somewhere around 2.5-3 weeks in that stability is reached, and at that point I'll be able to judge.  But if anybody has better info than that guess, I'd appreciate it. 

I can't order self tests in my state, and The amount of testing that my doctor can order an insurance will cover is decent but limited. Since self-testing is not available in the state, if she orders any tests that are not covered by insurance, the lab charges are outrageous.   However, she is agreeable to my reducing the dose based on symptoms if I start to experience low e2 symptoms.  So, wondering when that might be. 

Thanks for the recommendations in any case.



Your original post stated that you would be taking .5mg every other day rather than .25mg every day.

Yes that is correct.  .5 mg every other day equates to .25 mg per day.  Since the half life is somewhere in the 3-4 days range, I didn't think it would make much difference doing daily vs eod.  Am I missing something?

fyi:

At my old clinic, they started me on .5 mg twice a week - and this was after running labs of course.  I crashed my estradiol once by doing it EOD.  Their rule was every three days and never every two days.  Just passing along info...

Thanks.
Title: Re: Mushrooms Probably Lowered My Estradiol But Switching to Anastrazole
Post by: surfdog on July 09, 2015, 11:49:36 am
That's an extremely aggressive dose of Adex.  While you may need it to help manage your E2, starting at such a high dose is likely going to end poorly.  This dose will essentially block all aromatization of testosterone to E2 when used with any reasonable dose of testosterone.  Men need estradiol for many important bodily functions, so eliminating it from the hormonal equation is going to be problematic.

It may take some time for symptoms to occur, but I would be absolutely shocked if this dose didn't cause some very uncomfortable side effects for you in the near future. 

A dose like this will also likely result in some pretty significant negative effects on your lipids.

I'd strongly urge you to rethink such an extreme addition to your protocol.

1/4 mg per day is extremely high?   My doc originally suggested 1 mg/ day, which definitely is high.  1/4 mg per day seems kind of middle of the road from what I've seen others using, especially given that I am very high without it. 

I do understand that going too low is a risk on any dose.  Test and correct means the possibility of overshooting and having to deal with a few lousy weeks potentially.

But actually that was why I was asking about how long before you reach the steady state E2 level for a given dose.   Right now I feel great, but I'm probably not to steady state yet.  I'm guessing that it's somewhere around 2.5-3 weeks in that stability is reached, and at that point I'll be able to judge.  But if anybody has better info than that guess, I'd appreciate it. 

I can't order self tests in my state, and The amount of testing that my doctor can order an insurance will cover is decent but limited. Since self-testing is not available in the state, if she orders any tests that are not covered by insurance, the lab charges are outrageous.   However, she is agreeable to my reducing the dose based on symptoms if I start to experience low e2 symptoms.  So, wondering when that might be. 

Thanks for the recommendations in any case.



Your original post stated that you would be taking .5mg every other day rather than .25mg every day.

Yes that is correct.  .5 mg every other day equates to .25 mg per day.  Since the half life is somewhere in the 3-4 days range, I didn't think it would make much difference doing daily vs eod.  Am I missing something?

fyi:

At my old clinic, they started me on .5 mg twice a week - and this was after running labs of course.  I crashed my estradiol once by doing it EOD.  Their rule was every three days and never every two days.  Just passing along info...

how would this be squared with an E0D dosing then? Doctor John like to start guys taking in on their dosing days, according to his own posts.

Any guys out there taking Arimidex on a E0D schedule? What do you do for it? My last E2 reading was 72, though I'm only taking 100mg a week sub q cyp E0D and no hcg. I have low (17) SHBG.

Sorry to derail the thread but 'never every two days' for an AI is something I haven't heard yet. 
Title: Re: Mushrooms Probably Lowered My Estradiol But Switching to Anastrazole
Post by: Hydranted on July 09, 2015, 12:39:41 pm
That's an extremely aggressive dose of Adex.  While you may need it to help manage your E2, starting at such a high dose is likely going to end poorly.  This dose will essentially block all aromatization of testosterone to E2 when used with any reasonable dose of testosterone.  Men need estradiol for many important bodily functions, so eliminating it from the hormonal equation is going to be problematic.

It may take some time for symptoms to occur, but I would be absolutely shocked if this dose didn't cause some very uncomfortable side effects for you in the near future. 

A dose like this will also likely result in some pretty significant negative effects on your lipids.

I'd strongly urge you to rethink such an extreme addition to your protocol.

1/4 mg per day is extremely high?   My doc originally suggested 1 mg/ day, which definitely is high.  1/4 mg per day seems kind of middle of the road from what I've seen others using, especially given that I am very high without it. 

I do understand that going too low is a risk on any dose.  Test and correct means the possibility of overshooting and having to deal with a few lousy weeks potentially.

But actually that was why I was asking about how long before you reach the steady state E2 level for a given dose.   Right now I feel great, but I'm probably not to steady state yet.  I'm guessing that it's somewhere around 2.5-3 weeks in that stability is reached, and at that point I'll be able to judge.  But if anybody has better info than that guess, I'd appreciate it. 

I can't order self tests in my state, and The amount of testing that my doctor can order an insurance will cover is decent but limited. Since self-testing is not available in the state, if she orders any tests that are not covered by insurance, the lab charges are outrageous.   However, she is agreeable to my reducing the dose based on symptoms if I start to experience low e2 symptoms.  So, wondering when that might be. 

Thanks for the recommendations in any case.



Your original post stated that you would be taking .5mg every other day rather than .25mg every day.




Yes that is correct.  .5 mg every other day equates to .25 mg per day.  Since the half life is somewhere in the 3-4 days range, I didn't think it would make much difference doing daily vs eod.  Am I missing something?


You're correct, it is roughly the same thing.  I was just looking for clarification.

It's still a very high dose of Adex.  There are many guys on steroid cycles using far less.  It's your body and I'm not here to tell you that there's only one way to do things, but it appears to be quite the knee-jerk reaction in terms of dosing.

I just don't understand the logic behind starting out on such a high dose. 
Title: Re: Mushrooms Probably Lowered My Estradiol But Switching to Anastrazole
Post by: PeakT on July 09, 2015, 03:13:55 pm

how would this be squared with an E0D dosing then? Doctor John like to start guys taking in on their dosing days, according to his own posts.

Any guys out there taking Arimidex on a E0D schedule? What do you do for it? My last E2 reading was 72, though I'm only taking 100mg a week sub q cyp E0D and no hcg. I have low (17) SHBG.

Sorry to derail the thread but 'never every two days' for an AI is something I haven't heard yet.

Yes, I should have been more clear.  At my old clinic I was weekly IM cypionate and they started me on a pretty beefy dose. 

So, yes, I am sure you could split it up into smaller dosages and quite a few guys on here have done it.  Type in Liquid Arimidex into the search and you'll see there are low dose compounded preparations that you can get even.

But let's get practical here:  the anastrazole comes in a 1 mg tab and it's very easy to split into 2 and possibly 4 parts with a pill splitter.  But how are you going to split it very accurately into 3 parts?  You're gonna have to be a professional jewel cutter for that one. 

Again, my real point is a) don't take too much in too short of a window and b) be careful with the right test and regular monitoring.  Bone loss is very serious and potentially it could lead to neurological or cardiovascular issues if you go too low for an extended period of time.
Title: Re: Mushrooms Probably Lowered My Estradiol But Switching to Anastrazole
Post by: Regulus on July 09, 2015, 06:49:57 pm
That's an extremely aggressive dose of Adex.  While you may need it to help manage your E2, starting at such a high dose is likely going to end poorly.  This dose will essentially block all aromatization of testosterone to E2 when used with any reasonable dose of testosterone.  Men need estradiol for many important bodily functions, so eliminating it from the hormonal equation is going to be problematic.

It may take some time for symptoms to occur, but I would be absolutely shocked if this dose didn't cause some very uncomfortable side effects for you in the near future. 

A dose like this will also likely result in some pretty significant negative effects on your lipids.

I'd strongly urge you to rethink such an extreme addition to your protocol.

1/4 mg per day is extremely high?   My doc originally suggested 1 mg/ day, which definitely is high.  1/4 mg per day seems kind of middle of the road from what I've seen others using, especially given that I am very high without it. 

I do understand that going too low is a risk on any dose.  Test and correct means the possibility of overshooting and having to deal with a few lousy weeks potentially.

But actually that was why I was asking about how long before you reach the steady state E2 level for a given dose.   Right now I feel great, but I'm probably not to steady state yet.  I'm guessing that it's somewhere around 2.5-3 weeks in that stability is reached, and at that point I'll be able to judge.  But if anybody has better info than that guess, I'd appreciate it. 

I can't order self tests in my state, and The amount of testing that my doctor can order an insurance will cover is decent but limited. Since self-testing is not available in the state, if she orders any tests that are not covered by insurance, the lab charges are outrageous.   However, she is agreeable to my reducing the dose based on symptoms if I start to experience low e2 symptoms.  So, wondering when that might be. 

Thanks for the recommendations in any case.



Your original post stated that you would be taking .5mg every other day rather than .25mg every day.




Yes that is correct.  .5 mg every other day equates to .25 mg per day.  Since the half life is somewhere in the 3-4 days range, I didn't think it would make much difference doing daily vs eod.  Am I missing something?


You're correct, it is roughly the same thing.  I was just looking for clarification.

It's still a very high dose of Adex.  There are many guys on steroid cycles using far less.  It's your body and I'm not here to tell you that there's only one way to do things, but it appears to be quite the knee-jerk reaction in terms of dosing.

I just don't understand the logic behind starting out on such a high dose.

Ok Hydranted, thanks.  We will see how it goes.  I'm not sure I agree that it's all that high, and my doc doesn't either, but you certainly may be right.  If it turns out to be too much, I'll be in for a lousy few weeks but that too shall pass, and I'll invite you to hit me with a huge "told you so".  :-)  Thanks for the input in any case. 
Title: Re: Mushrooms Probably Lowered My Estradiol But Switching to Anastrazole
Post by: surfdog on July 10, 2015, 02:29:49 am
Thanks, PeakT. Yeah, I'm still on the fence as to begin with it or not. I'm going down to 88mg a week to see if that will drop the E2 in range.
Title: Re: Mushrooms Probably Lowered My Estradiol But Switching to Anastrazole
Post by: PeakT on July 10, 2015, 06:07:13 am
Thanks, PeakT. Yeah, I'm still on the fence as to begin with it or not. I'm going down to 88mg a week to see if that will drop the E2 in range.

Noted.  Let us know how much it drops it if you have time.
Title: Re: Mushrooms Probably Lowered My Estradiol But Switching to Anastrazole
Post by: surfdog on July 10, 2015, 06:12:48 am
Thanks, PeakT. Yeah, I'm still on the fence as to begin with it or not. I'm going down to 88mg a week to see if that will drop the E2 in range.

Noted.  Let us know how much it drops it if you have time.

I'm bit more active on Excelmale and I posted this over there (below). I just got the test results back.

"I just got my test results back and I'm:

TT - 792
E2 - 54
SHBG - 17

No HCG or anything else for the last month.

My last reading, a month ago was 72. I think it dropped because of the lack of HCG, but it's not back in range. My baselines were 26 before TRT and 31 after 6 weeks. These are non-sensitive assays as that's all I have access to. I want to get back to that 26 number. My libido and erections were better before this ballooning E2. Yes, I'm stronger than ever and have tons of energy, but my sex life is worse. I want this energy with my old sex life .

This is my highest TT reading ever so I'm bummed. I wanted to avoid using an AI but I don't think I can have T over 700 and normal E2 levels without it.

To those guys that use small doses or AIs, have they impacted your lipid profiles negatively? How much will .50mg a week drop E2 if the reading is 50-60?

I should add that I'm 38, 6'4", 192, lean, muscular, in excellent cardio condition and can lift heavy. I eat clean (tons of cabbage, broccoli, spinach, etc), take DIM, and still have high E2. So I don't know if I can do much more on the lifestyle side of things to address it. I sleep pretty good too.

Perhaps the best thing to do would be raise SHBG but I'm not sure how to do that outside of lifestyle changes, which I'm already practicing."

Also I'll add here - while my FBS is a bit high it's not pre-diabetic and my liver checks out fine.

So I don't know. I think I might try .25mg 2x a week and see how it goes. I'm not sure how else to drop this E2 without dropping the T so low I'll lose the benefits of having a good TT number.

I should add that I have nearly every symptom listed on this page for high E2: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/HRT_Estradiol_Men

Any advice or feedback is appreciated.
Title: Re: Mushrooms Probably Lowered My Estradiol But Switching to Anastrazole
Post by: surfdog on July 10, 2015, 11:48:10 am
That's an extremely aggressive dose of Adex.  While you may need it to help manage your E2, starting at such a high dose is likely going to end poorly.  This dose will essentially block all aromatization of testosterone to E2 when used with any reasonable dose of testosterone.  Men need estradiol for many important bodily functions, so eliminating it from the hormonal equation is going to be problematic.

It may take some time for symptoms to occur, but I would be absolutely shocked if this dose didn't cause some very uncomfortable side effects for you in the near future. 

A dose like this will also likely result in some pretty significant negative effects on your lipids.

I'd strongly urge you to rethink such an extreme addition to your protocol.

1/4 mg per day is extremely high?   My doc originally suggested 1 mg/ day, which definitely is high.  1/4 mg per day seems kind of middle of the road from what I've seen others using, especially given that I am very high without it. 

I do understand that going too low is a risk on any dose.  Test and correct means the possibility of overshooting and having to deal with a few lousy weeks potentially.

But actually that was why I was asking about how long before you reach the steady state E2 level for a given dose.   Right now I feel great, but I'm probably not to steady state yet.  I'm guessing that it's somewhere around 2.5-3 weeks in that stability is reached, and at that point I'll be able to judge.  But if anybody has better info than that guess, I'd appreciate it. 

I can't order self tests in my state, and The amount of testing that my doctor can order an insurance will cover is decent but limited. Since self-testing is not available in the state, if she orders any tests that are not covered by insurance, the lab charges are outrageous.   However, she is agreeable to my reducing the dose based on symptoms if I start to experience low e2 symptoms.  So, wondering when that might be. 

Thanks for the recommendations in any case.



Your original post stated that you would be taking .5mg every other day rather than .25mg every day.




Yes that is correct.  .5 mg every other day equates to .25 mg per day.  Since the half life is somewhere in the 3-4 days range, I didn't think it would make much difference doing daily vs eod.  Am I missing something?


You're correct, it is roughly the same thing.  I was just looking for clarification.

It's still a very high dose of Adex.  There are many guys on steroid cycles using far less.  It's your body and I'm not here to tell you that there's only one way to do things, but it appears to be quite the knee-jerk reaction in terms of dosing.

I just don't understand the logic behind starting out on such a high dose.

Hydranted, if you feel .5 EOD is too much. What would you feel is a better start? .25 mg EOD? I'm thinking .15 mg EOD but not sure how to make the pills like that haha. Might have to compound them or just try .25 EOD and see how it goes.
Title: Re: Mushrooms Probably Lowered My Estradiol But Switching to Anastrazole
Post by: PeakT on July 10, 2015, 04:34:57 pm
Thanks, PeakT. Yeah, I'm still on the fence as to begin with it or not. I'm going down to 88mg a week to see if that will drop the E2 in range.

Noted.  Let us know how much it drops it if you have time.

I'm bit more active on Excelmale and I posted this over there (below). I just got the test results back.

"I just got my test results back and I'm:

TT - 792
E2 - 54
SHBG - 17

No HCG or anything else for the last month.

My last reading, a month ago was 72. I think it dropped because of the lack of HCG, but it's not back in range. My baselines were 26 before TRT and 31 after 6 weeks. These are non-sensitive assays as that's all I have access to. I want to get back to that 26 number. My libido and erections were better before this ballooning E2. Yes, I'm stronger than ever and have tons of energy, but my sex life is worse. I want this energy with my old sex life .

This is my highest TT reading ever so I'm bummed. I wanted to avoid using an AI but I don't think I can have T over 700 and normal E2 levels without it.

To those guys that use small doses or AIs, have they impacted your lipid profiles negatively? How much will .50mg a week drop E2 if the reading is 50-60?

I should add that I'm 38, 6'4", 192, lean, muscular, in excellent cardio condition and can lift heavy. I eat clean (tons of cabbage, broccoli, spinach, etc), take DIM, and still have high E2. So I don't know if I can do much more on the lifestyle side of things to address it. I sleep pretty good too.

Perhaps the best thing to do would be raise SHBG but I'm not sure how to do that outside of lifestyle changes, which I'm already practicing."

Also I'll add here - while my FBS is a bit high it's not pre-diabetic and my liver checks out fine.

So I don't know. I think I might try .25mg 2x a week and see how it goes. I'm not sure how else to drop this E2 without dropping the T so low I'll lose the benefits of having a good TT number.

I should add that I have nearly every symptom listed on this page for high E2: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/HRT_Estradiol_Men

Any advice or feedback is appreciated.

Hey, you're doing all the right things and have acted responsibly.  Some guys are just high converters.  Try to understand why certain enzymes get upgraded and downgraded is really involved and I doubt it will lead anywhere, so taking Arimidex is a consistent and easy way out. 

My initial goal was to use as little of Arimidex as possible.  If you can get the dosage down to .25 twice a week - .5 a week obviously - that is really a very low dose.  As you probably know, the cancer and medical condition type dose is 1 mg per day and this is when the sides start hitting. 

Now, if I was in that situation, I'd probably try Regulus' mushroom solution.  It seems like there might be something to it and so I'd probably try that first.  It's just one guy's story, but then Regulus is a numbers guy and has been around the block, so my gut feel is that it might do the trick...
Title: Re: Mushrooms Probably Lowered My Estradiol But Switching to Anastrazole
Post by: Hydranted on July 12, 2015, 08:29:57 am
Surfdog, if you're going to try Adex my recommendation is almosfalways going to be to start with a low dose and only move up if needed.  This is partially because it's very important to avoid crashing your estradiol, but also because we don't know how you'll respond to the medication yet.  Sometimes people experience side effects even on low doses.

What is your injection dose and frequency?
Title: Re: Mushrooms Probably Lowered My Estradiol But Switching to Anastrazole
Post by: surfdog on July 12, 2015, 08:57:53 am
PeakT, I'd like to try the mushroom route but I'm working overseas in a tropical country a long ways from home (USA). It's not realistic for me at the moment. If it was a bananas or mangos treatment I'd be in.  8)

Hydrated, I'm doing 100 mg per week of test cyp dosed EOD sub q. I'm not doing any HCG at the moment. I was going to drop to 88mg but my total T number is 800 and I'd like to keep it there. I have lots of energy which was why I started TRT. My pre TRT readings were all around 300 to 320 and I was just feeling worn out, but still had good libido and with cialis good sex.

I started the Arimidex Friday at .25mg. I can say that last night I had better sex with my GF than I've had in quite a while. Not sure if it's placebo but as I understand it will take about a week for the liver to clear the excess estrogen. I also hear it can work in the matter of hours in blocking further conversion.

I read that a common protocol to start is 1mg a week in divided doses. I'm debating on doing that or going down to about .5 mg a week in divided doses. If I do .5 mg I need to get these pills compounded as I don't think I can make .125 pieces.

What do you think based on spending time on these boards? Is 1mg a week too much to start (would take .25 mg on shot day for a total of 1.75 over 2 weeks, so a bit less than 1mg per week)? I do plan on adding HCG back in at about 100iu EOD or so when I get done with some upcoming trips.
Title: Re: Mushrooms Probably Lowered My Estradiol But Switching to Anastrazole
Post by: Hydranted on July 12, 2015, 09:20:43 am
You may have felt an almost instant effect from the Adex since it does have a minor effect on the amount of circulating estradiol in your body.  It's main action is to block aromatization, but it does help to slightly reduce estradiol in "real time" as well.

I'd recommend keeping the dosing simple, and low.  Taking .25mg twice weekly would be a great starting point.  I really don't think that you'll need any more than that to be honest, but follow up labs (and symptom relief!) will help make that determination.
Title: Re: Mushrooms Probably Lowered My Estradiol But Switching to Anastrazole
Post by: surfdog on July 12, 2015, 09:27:19 am
Thanks. How you would dose .25mg twice a week when doing EOD injects?

Dr. John starts guys on AI (if they need it) the same day as an inject. That recommendation along with my understanding that Arimidex is effective for about 2 days is why I wanted to take it on inject day and EOD.

Yeah, I'd rather take less and see how it goes. In that case I'll need to compound them into .125.
Title: Re: Mushrooms Probably Lowered My Estradiol But Switching to Anastrazole
Post by: Hydranted on July 12, 2015, 12:08:20 pm
I'd just pick 2 days and stick with them, regardless if it's an injection day or not.  No need to over complicate it.  If your estradiol is high on an EOD protocol, it's going to roughly stay at that constant level, so the timing may not be quite as important as you think. 

If it would be easy for you to get it compounded in the desired dose, I'd do that instead.  More frequent dosing will always lead to more stable blood levels.  I think you'll be fine taking it twice per week though.  Only one way to find out.

The half life of Adex is roughly 48 hours, so it's not completely out of your system in 2 days.
Title: Re: Mushrooms Probably Lowered My Estradiol But Switching to Anastrazole
Post by: Regulus on August 01, 2015, 01:35:28 am
Just an update since I started this thread.

I've been taking 0.5 mg EOD now.   While I don't have any labs yet to share, I can say that subjectively it's definitely working.   The absolute tell is that I am not getting any weepy feelings (which I was a little with the high E2), have had much higher energy levels, and sexually things are going very, very well.

Same effects I got from the edible fungus, just a heck of a lot easier to take a half-pill every other day, and dosing consistency of course as well.
Title: Re: Mushrooms Probably Lowered My Estradiol But Switching to Anastrazole
Post by: Regulus on September 14, 2015, 11:51:29 am
Just an update since I started this thread.

I've been taking 0.5 mg EOD now.   While I don't have any labs yet to share, I can say that subjectively it's definitely working.   The absolute tell is that I am not getting any weepy feelings (which I was a little with the high E2), have had much higher energy levels, and sexually things are going very, very well.

Same effects I got from the edible fungus, just a heck of a lot easier to take a half-pill every other day, and dosing consistency of course as well.

Experiment update. 

Finally was able to get labs.   Before anastrazole I was at 87, which inspired me to start using it.

After three months, my estradiol tested at <5.  So I guess the stuff works. 

Yeah, I know that is way too low....

I suspected it might have taken me too low because after the initial month of feeling fantastic and incredibly horny, things started to settle down.   However, I have not experienced any really bad effects.   Morning wood has become much less frequent, but in general I feel fine. 

So this might be a little tough to titrate, since half a pill every other day crashed me. 

I am stopping entirely for two weeks, and then will try a half pill twice a week (just on injection days).   The good news is that since I went so low, insurance will approve labs much sooner than the three months I had to wait first go round, so a month after starting the new dose I will have data. 

Hopefully this is short term anyway.  I've got about 25 pounds left to lose now, which won't be easy, but the hope that that might solve the aromatization issue in combination with the dietary stuff that I do believe works is extra motivation.
Title: Re: Mushrooms Probably Lowered My Estradiol But Switching to Anastrazole
Post by: PeakT on September 14, 2015, 05:01:24 pm
Just an update since I started this thread.

I've been taking 0.5 mg EOD now.   While I don't have any labs yet to share, I can say that subjectively it's definitely working.   The absolute tell is that I am not getting any weepy feelings (which I was a little with the high E2), have had much higher energy levels, and sexually things are going very, very well.

Same effects I got from the edible fungus, just a heck of a lot easier to take a half-pill every other day, and dosing consistency of course as well.

Experiment update. 

Finally was able to get labs.   Before anastrazole I was at 87, which inspired me to start using it.

After three months, my estradiol tested at <5.  So I guess the stuff works. 

Yeah, I know that is way too low....

I suspected it might have taken me too low because after the initial month of feeling fantastic and incredibly horny, things started to settle down.   However, I have not experienced any really bad effects.   Morning wood has become much less frequent, but in general I feel fine. 

So this might be a little tough to titrate, since half a pill every other day crashed me. 

I am stopping entirely for two weeks, and then will try a half pill twice a week (just on injection days).   The good news is that since I went so low, insurance will approve labs much sooner than the three months I had to wait first go round, so a month after starting the new dose I will have data. 

Hopefully this is short term anyway.  I've got about 25 pounds left to lose now, which won't be easy, but the hope that that might solve the aromatization issue in combination with the dietary stuff that I do believe works is extra motivation.

Since you're a veteran, I'm sure you know this but:

--You can get compounded anastrozole in liquid and other forms so that you can get a smaller dose.

--Some guys a re very sensitive to it.

--You don't want to stay low for long as it can lead to bone loss.
Title: Re: Mushrooms Probably Lowered My Estradiol But Switching to Anastrazole
Post by: Regulus on September 14, 2015, 11:56:11 pm
Yep, Peak, know all that, but thanks anyway.  I follow a pretty informative site.  :-).

Mostly posting to share the info that

(A) it can be incredibly powerful stuff.  I went from twice the top of the range to undetectable on a pretty low dose

(B) "crashing estradiol", while not something to take lightly because, yeah, we do need the stuff, doesn't necessarily lead to a horror story of symptoms.  It does for some, but sure hasn't for me. 
Title: Re: Mushrooms Probably Lowered My Estradiol But Switching to Anastrazole
Post by: PeakT on September 15, 2015, 01:19:35 am
Yep, Peak, know all that, but thanks anyway.  I follow a pretty informative site.  :-).

Mostly posting to share the info that

(A) it can be incredibly powerful stuff.  I went from twice the top of the range to undetectable on a pretty low dose

(B) "crashing estradiol", while not something to take lightly because, yeah, we do need the stuff, doesn't necessarily lead to a horror story of symptoms.  It does for some, but sure hasn't for me.

Usually, it's a few weeks of misery and then all is back to normal.
Title: Re: Mushrooms Probably Lowered My Estradiol But Switching to Anastrazole
Post by: bolide on September 16, 2015, 05:04:07 am
What type of mushrooms were you eating?
Title: Re: Mushrooms Probably Lowered My Estradiol But Switching to Anastrazole
Post by: Regulus on September 16, 2015, 11:23:50 am
What type of mushrooms were you eating?

Regular grocery store brown button (cremini, or "baby portabella").  It's the same species as the white ones, and the white ones actually have tested a little more effective, but I like the flavor of the brown better.
Title: Re: Mushrooms Probably Lowered My Estradiol But Switching to Anastrazole
Post by: PeakT on September 16, 2015, 03:40:37 pm
What type of mushrooms were you eating?

Regular grocery store brown button (cremini, or "baby portabella").  It's the same species as the white ones, and the white ones actually have tested a little more effective, but I like the flavor of the brown better.

So, if you eat a decent amount of broccoli, it basically switches the bad estrogen metabolites to the good.  Do these mushrooms to the same?  Any idea?
Title: Re: Mushrooms Probably Lowered My Estradiol But Switching to Anastrazole
Post by: Regulus on September 16, 2015, 04:58:23 pm
What type of mushrooms were you eating?

Regular grocery store brown button (cremini, or "baby portabella").  It's the same species as the white ones, and the white ones actually have tested a little more effective, but I like the flavor of the brown better.

So, if you eat a decent amount of broccoli, it basically switches the bad estrogen metabolites to the good.  Do these mushrooms to the same?  Any idea?

As I understand it, and I could be wrong, the view seems to be that they are an aromatase inhibitor.
Title: Re: Mushrooms Probably Lowered My Estradiol But Switching to Anastrazole
Post by: PeakT on September 16, 2015, 08:47:33 pm
What type of mushrooms were you eating?

Regular grocery store brown button (cremini, or "baby portabella").  It's the same species as the white ones, and the white ones actually have tested a little more effective, but I like the flavor of the brown better.

You're spot on.  I was just too lazy to look it up:

http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/66/24/12026.short

"Anti-Aromatase Activity of Phytochemicals in White Button Mushrooms (Agaricus bisporus)"

So, if you eat a decent amount of broccoli, it basically switches the bad estrogen metabolites to the good.  Do these mushrooms to the same?  Any idea?

As I understand it, and I could be wrong, the view seems to be that they are an aromatase inhibitor.