Peak Testosterone Forum

General Category => Testosterone, Hormones and General Men's Health => Topic started by: Nocturne on August 16, 2015, 02:30:37 pm

Title: Anyone Failed on Clomid But Then Found TRT or HCG Worked?
Post by: Nocturne on August 16, 2015, 02:30:37 pm
I know that no one here has really been cured of hypogonadism by Clomid (although I know it CAN happen).

Has anyone had a crappy experience with Clomid that overall seemed to make their situation WORSE, and then gotten to feel like themselves again with some other method?

I have been trying to grit my teeth and bear the Clomid trial but aside from the one good week or so immediately after starting or increasing my dose, I've felt pretty crappy and my ED hasn't budged.  My big hope is that my T levels will rise and stay up once I discontinue the Clomid, and once the Clomid sides leave me I'll be feeling back to normal without the ED.

But barring that -- I just want some hope.
Title: Re: About sick of Clomid
Post by: seppuku on August 16, 2015, 05:02:50 pm
Bodybuilders for years have taken ridiculous doses of clomid for usually a month after a steroid cycle, hated it (because they took too much), but were ok once off it.  And they'd go back to clomid after the next cycle,  so I don't think you have to worry about long term problems. 
Title: Re: Anyone Failed on Clomid But Then Found TRT or HCG Worked?
Post by: seppuku on August 16, 2015, 05:12:08 pm
Oh, and anecdotally,  I've read that it's a good idea to take an aromatase inhibitor while coming off clomid, as all the free floating estradiol will jump on your hypothalamus once the clomid leaves it, causing rebound low testosterone.  Have you considered trying arimidex monotherapy? Or maybe exemestane which has a better response in a lot of people?   I personally think you would have been ok with the clomid if you had stuck with it longer and taken no more than 12.5mg eod, possibly with low dose AI till you got the e2 under control.  There's a huge difference subjectively between 12.5mg and even 25mg. But maybe you just need to try a different route, it can't suit everybody.
Title: Re: Anyone Failed on Clomid But Then Found TRT or HCG Worked?
Post by: electrify on August 16, 2015, 05:43:47 pm
If you have high E2 problems even before HCG then HCG could make it worse.

I actually thought clomid was better than HCG. Problem is, even at 12.5 mg eod I ended up feeling better up to the 3rd week mark and then have a full on mood crash info depression for a week which made me fail one of my classes.

Its the horrible pharmacokinetics that leads to the problems. The bad Z isomer has a half life of 1 week and the good E isomer has a half life of 2 days. So in the beginning, you can feel better but then eventually the Z isomer accumulates and you feel depressed. I haven't verified this anywhere but this is my theory on the clomid mood crashes after seeing improvement.
Title: Re: Anyone Failed on Clomid But Then Found TRT or HCG Worked?
Post by: Nocturne on August 16, 2015, 05:53:56 pm
Hey, (sincere) thanks for the title edit, Peak, and thanks for the responses Seppuku.

My T level tests before Clomid came back 130 and 240, so I'm not sure Arimidex mono would have worked.  Never heard of exemestane but will look it up, thanks.

I'm thinking of getting my E2 checked by a lab but I'm up for getting the blood work done in a couple of weeks anyway (though they will not be using the sensitive test for E2, so maybe I should).  I suspect a look at my numbers on that front may suggest a change in protocol.

The clear and noticeable improvement in erections in the first week after starting Clomid gives me hope that my issue is primarily hormonal and can be dealt with, but the return to crummy ED afterwards has been very frustrating.  This is mostly,about the ED for me, and I suspect that the anxiety, depression, etc. will probably melt away if they improve to the point they were at last week.  Or maybe the whole shebang was good because my levels were briefly at good points.

I noted that the marked improvement did start after my first .25 mg dose of Arimidex, a couple of days BEFORE I started the higher Clomid dose.  So again, I suspect that looking at my E2 levels might suggest something.  It's POSSIBLE that I just tanked E2 with Arimidex, or that the doubled Clomid dose raised it through the roof...  So confusing.  I would clearly have been better off changing one or the other protocol first and then giving it some time.

Want this over with so I can go back to being a good husband and father instead of a weepy, morose wreck.  Got to find a way to get to that sweet spot I was at last week and stay there.