Peak Testosterone Forum

General Category => Testosterone, Hormones and General Men's Health => Topic started by: jumpingthrough on December 25, 2015, 07:42:39 pm

Title: 18y updated situation
Post by: jumpingthrough on December 25, 2015, 07:42:39 pm
Hi
I was here about a year ago. I've been running back and forth to doctors with no results. I've updated with some new blood tests.
I also posted this on another forum. Any suggestions? I checked thyroid now. I am limited to self-testing and selfmedication.

I suffer from alot of low T symptoms, mainly however: HUGE loss of libido (consistent for 2-3 years), ED, inexistence of morning wood, fat gain (I use to easily stay lean) weaker physically, and feel weaker both physically and mentally, constant levels of low anxiety for no logical reason (I'm not worried in my mind, but my body feels at unease) foggy mind (my memory and conecentration is BAD, going from A-B grades to barely managing E)

age: 18
weight 74kg
height 5'11
bf 17-18%

I've got prolactin, thyroid, estradiol, testosterone, liver, kidney function, vitamin D, insulin function and blood values checked over the years:

Total Testosterone Reference: 230ngdl-866ng/dl - Values been hovering around 260-373ng/dl over the course of 2 Ā½ years. Latest ones at 323ng/dl, 280ng/dl, 260ng/dl.

SHBG 13-71nmol/L - values been around 15-20nmol/L Latest ones at 18nmol/L, 15nmol/L, 16nmol/L

LH- Been around 4-6iu/L on all tests. Latest ones at 4.8iu/L, 5.6iu/L, 4.5iu/L
FSH - Always been low 1.2-1.6iu/L. Latest ones at 1.3iu/L, 1.6iu/L, 1.2iu/L

Hemoglobin - Always been elevated, hovering around 160g/l. Latest test showed 150ng/dl.
Hemacromatotit- Always elevated aswell, hovering around 0,50%, Latest test was 0,43%.

I think it's because of dehydration, I will get this retested properly hydrated.

Estradiol - 19.5pg/ml

Vitamin D 88nmol/L

Thyroid: 3 TSH tests around 3-3.5. Latest one (complete) showed a more or less perfect thyroid function?

TSH 2.2miu/L (0.4-5miu/L)
Free T4 20pmol/L (10-22pmol/L)
Free T3 5.4pmol/L (3.3-6.5pmol/L)
TPO-AB <10 (0-35)
TRAB <1 (0-1.0)

Prolactin, 6.5 ng/ml, 33ng/ml, 16ng/ml (2-17ng/ml)

S-Glucose 5.3nmol/L
HbA1C 32mol (27-42mol)

S-DHEAS 9.3umoL/L (5.7-13umol/L)

P-Cholestrol 3.5mmol/L (2.9-6.1mmol/L)
HDL Cholestrol 1.3mmol/L (1.0-2.7mmol/L)
LDL cholestrol 2.2mmol/L (1.2-4.3mmol/L)
Triglycerides 0.5mmol/L (0.45-2.6mmol/L)


I would appreciate any welleducated thoughts and comments :)

Thank you for taking the time to read.
Title: Re: 18y updated situation
Post by: jumpingthrough on December 25, 2015, 07:43:49 pm
-age 18
-height 5'11
-waist 84cm(just above navel)
-weight 164 pounds/74-75kg
-describe body and facial hair - alot of body hair, but it's not thick, it's very loose? (not dense) you can 'see through it' facial hair around mouth, cheek, very thin and seethrough
-describe where you carry fat and how changed - most of fat is carried around midsection stomach and lower back. I don't have a beer belly, but if I gained weight it would create one so to say.
-health conditions, symptoms [history] i only had contact one time with the health care prior to this, although, when I was entering puberty my school doctor thought it was too early and wanted to give me some type of injection to slow it down. I can't remember what it was.
-Rx and OTC drugs - Acne during teenage years, was prescribed 100 caps of tetrlacycline, 2x per day
-describe diet - varied from time to time, was more strict and iifym when training, but now I just eat homecooked food. Weight is kept the around the same, I don't gain or lose. Usual food is rice/pasta/potatoes with some meat (chicken, beef, pork) and vegetables.
-describe training - use to gym, did stronglifts 5x5 for 3 months, and upper/lower for 6 months. Also 6 months where I was new and just played around. Now I just do muay thai 1x week or when I can muster the energy to go.
-testes ache, ever, with a fever? - never
-how have morning wood and nocturnal erections changed - erection quality greatly reduced. no hard morning woods, maybe sometimes i wake up with half a boner but rarely.
Title: Re: 18y updated situation
Post by: jumpingthrough on December 25, 2015, 07:44:51 pm
Pituitary damage: No access to MRI. I don't know..

Drugs and chemicals: Only drug I've used is tetracyline for acne.
I tried weed a few times.
Alcohol is 2x months approx, but a few beers and some vodka. I never drink to the point of drunk.
Never smoked in my life (cigarettes)

-other chemicals, toxins, pollution
-heavy metals
-fire retardants in furniture or fire fighter's fire retardant clothes
^ Not that I'm aware of



Effects of other reproductive and related hormones - I've never touched AAS in my life. No preworkouts. I've only bought protein powder.


Damage to the testicles [testes] ref - Not that I'm aware of

Damage to the pituitary gland:
Not that I'm aware of. I do practice muay thai, but testosterone tests were taken before I started, I never competed. I only do light to light-medium sparring.



-hypothyroidism - will measure body temp
-adrenal fatigue - I could see if I can get a cortiol blood test?
-syndrome X aka metabolic disorder
-insulin resistance [and diabetes] - Don't know, I know my grandmother had diabetes. Noone else in the living family I know of has diabetes though.
-influences of the digestive system - don't know
-arterial disease and high blood pressure [BP]
-poor cell wall permeability - don't know

Deficiencies:
Iodine : I eat with iodized salt relatively often.
Cholestrol : I'm not counting it right now, but I do get some cheese in, cream, eggs, butter, olive oil. I would be very surprised if there was a signficant defiency. I did go on a high fat diet for 3 months to see if it would boost my testosterone. It didn't work.


-low dietary EFA's - I'm not taking fish oil anymore. I did do it during the 3 months period of highfat diet. I rarely eat fish.
-other low trace minerals - I take a multivitamin. maybe not enough..
-sub optimal vitamin D - I supplemented with 4000iu of vitamin D during the 3 month period.
-anti oxidants. I try to eat vegetables with every meal. Usually something of: spinach, green beans, tomatoes, cucumbers, carrot, lettuce, brocolli. Usually a 1-2 handful of something out of those vegetables with every meal.


Body temperature

1st day: 97.7F
2nd day. 97.34F
3rd 97.88F

Afternoon temp on 2nd day 98.42F
Title: Re: 18y updated situation
Post by: PeakT on December 26, 2015, 02:01:54 am
I may have mentioned this but the low shbg and (somewhat) prolactin could indicte the beginnings of insulin resistance.  Have u looked into that?
Title: Re: 18y updated situation
Post by: jumpingthrough on December 26, 2015, 03:29:31 pm
Hi Peak. Yes I (think) I've looked into it?

I thought the SHBG was caused by hypothyroidism or diabetes.

But

S-Glucose 5.3nmol/L
HbA1C 32mol (27-42mol)

would show it's very unlikely that I've been developing diabetes if I understand it correctly?

Where do I keep looking to find a cause? I feel like I've searched the most common ones already.

Thank you and merry christmas!
Title: Re: 18y updated situation
Post by: PeakT on December 26, 2015, 05:46:44 pm
Hi Peak. Yes I (think) I've looked into it?

I thought the SHBG was caused by hypothyroidism or diabetes.

But

S-Glucose 5.3nmol/L
HbA1C 32mol (27-42mol)

would show it's very unlikely that I've been developing diabetes if I understand it correctly?

Where do I keep looking to find a cause? I feel like I've searched the most common ones already.

Thank you and merry christmas!

Post prandial blood glucose levels are what counts per the latest studies:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Normal_Postprandial_Blood_Glucose_Levels

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/How_Test_Insulin_Resistance

Sam's story is a very intresting one.  He did not really show signs of prediabetes, yet it seems pretty obvious to me he had the beginnings of fatty liver.  He lost weight, started exercising, did liver cleanses and took berberine (the new supplemental "metformin").  He actually reversed his low SHBG and is the only gut to do it.  Here is his program:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/how_to_cure_low_shbg
Title: Re: 18y updated situation
Post by: euphorixx1 on December 26, 2015, 07:15:26 pm
You have an 84 inch waist?
Title: Re: 18y updated situation
Post by: jumpingthrough on December 26, 2015, 07:39:13 pm
Hi Peak. Yes I (think) I've looked into it?

I thought the SHBG was caused by hypothyroidism or diabetes.

But

S-Glucose 5.3nmol/L
HbA1C 32mol (27-42mol)

would show it's very unlikely that I've been developing diabetes if I understand it correctly?

Where do I keep looking to find a cause? I feel like I've searched the most common ones already.

Thank you and merry christmas!

Post prandial blood glucose levels are what counts per the latest studies:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Normal_Postprandial_Blood_Glucose_Levels

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/How_Test_Insulin_Resistance

Sam's story is a very intresting one.  He did not really show signs of prediabetes, yet it seems pretty obvious to me he had the beginnings of fatty liver.  He lost weight, started exercising, did liver cleanses and took berberine (the new supplemental "metformin").  He actually reversed his low SHBG and is the only gut to do it.  Here is his program:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/how_to_cure_low_shbg


I've read the links you posted. I actually tried to lower my testosterone for a specific blood test where glucose was also tested. About half an hour before the test I drank 33cl coca. My glucose came out at 129mg/dl, which means I have prediabetes.

I'm wondering. Did the prediabetes > low testosterone or low testosterone > prediabetes?

Please help me out. I really want to fix this and it's been so long. Can I go on TRT, is there something I missed that might cause this?
I really want to go on TRT I feel horrible.

Would reversing prediabetes really help testosterone or would TRT be the right way?

I dont know how this can happen.. Nowadays I rarely eat sweets or soda, I eat homecooked. Maybe fast food once every month or two months. When I was a kid I ate candy maybe once every week or second week.
Title: Re: 18y updated situation
Post by: PeakT on December 26, 2015, 09:14:24 pm
You mean the doc classified you as prediabetic?  Why was he looking out of curiosity?
Title: Re: 18y updated situation
Post by: jumpingthrough on December 26, 2015, 10:41:56 pm
No. but I read your links. 125 mg/dl after high-carb meal shows strong signs of prediabetes correct?

I tried to lower my testosterone for blood test by drinking 33cl cola 30 min before test.  He tested both testosterone and glucose.

I guess they tested glucose because my symptoms could also match diabetes I think.
Title: Re: 18y updated situation
Post by: PeakT on December 26, 2015, 10:48:31 pm
That seems high.  Id retest using more refined carbs though.
Title: Re: 18y updated situation
Post by: jumpingthrough on December 26, 2015, 10:53:15 pm
But Peak, what do you say about TRT at my age?

I've checked thyroid, LH/FSH, variecole, lifestyle (smoking,drinking, obesity) etc already. It's been consistently low for 2-2½ years.

I will recheck post-glucose in a few weeks. Refined carbs = white bread with jam, orange juice, cookies etc? = I eat refined carbs 2 hours later I go take a blood glucose test?

Title: Re: 18y updated situation
Post by: PeakT on December 27, 2015, 05:16:57 am
But Peak, what do you say about TRT at my age?


You'll never see me tell anyone to go on TRT or not.  It is a very involved decision with your physician(s).  My job is just to provide as much good starter information and resources, so you can talk shop with him (or her).
Title: Re: 18y updated situation
Post by: PeakT on December 27, 2015, 05:18:33 am
And check out K's interesting thread:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=8863.0
Title: Re: 18y updated situation
Post by: jumpingthrough on December 27, 2015, 06:25:52 pm
But Peak, what do you say about TRT at my age?


You'll never see me tell anyone to go on TRT or not.  It is a very involved decision with your physician(s).  My job is just to provide as much good starter information and resources, so you can talk shop with him (or her).

I understand that. I guess what I'm asking more is: are there any obvious culprits I haven't looked for yet that can be the cause of my low testosterone? Docs in my country think my values are normal.
Title: Re: 18y updated situation
Post by: PeakT on December 27, 2015, 07:38:04 pm
 I don't think I saw prolactin or cortisol? Am on phone so may have missed it.
Title: Re: 18y updated situation
Post by: jumpingthrough on December 27, 2015, 10:04:33 pm
You have an 84 inch waist?
Hi. My bad. Ofcourse it should be 84 cm which equals to 32inches.


I don't think I saw prolactin or cortisol? Am on phone so may have missed it.

I haven't got cortisol measured.

Prolactin was:
6.5 ng/ml, 33ng/ml, 16ng/ml, 7ng/ml, 7.1 ng/ml (2-17ng/ml)

I really appreciate this forum and users like you, Peak. Thanks.
Title: Re: 18y updated situation
Post by: PeakT on December 28, 2015, 04:09:37 am
You have an 84 inch waist?
Hi. My bad. Ofcourse it should be 84 cm which equals to 32inches.


I don't think I saw prolactin or cortisol? Am on phone so may have missed it.

I haven't got cortisol measured.

Prolactin was:
6.5 ng/ml, 33ng/ml, 16ng/ml, 7ng/ml, 7.1 ng/ml (2-17ng/ml)

I really appreciate this forum and users like you, Peak. Thanks.

Check out this page:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Hypothyroidism_High_Prolactin

Read all of K's stuff on cortisol.  He has uncovered super interesting research on cortisol - probably the best I have seen out there.
Title: Re: 18y updated situation
Post by: vvs1 on December 28, 2015, 07:54:22 am
I think your estrogen is high. Your symptoms correlate with high estradiol, as I was checking this out yesterday.

Also, I read a study which tested estrogen patches on men with hot flashes. It stated that the patches (extra estrogen) lowered fsh, but lh remained the same. Which correlates with your blood test.

Have you ever taken Accutane? Had a karyotype test done?
Title: Re: 18y updated situation
Post by: jumpingthrough on December 28, 2015, 11:58:44 pm
You have an 84 inch waist?
Hi. My bad. Ofcourse it should be 84 cm which equals to 32inches.


I don't think I saw prolactin or cortisol? Am on phone so may have missed it.

I haven't got cortisol measured.

Prolactin was:
6.5 ng/ml, 33ng/ml, 16ng/ml, 7ng/ml, 7.1 ng/ml (2-17ng/ml)

I really appreciate this forum and users like you, Peak. Thanks.

Check out this page:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Hypothyroidism_High_Prolactin

Read all of K's stuff on cortisol.  He has uncovered super interesting research on cortisol - probably the best I have seen out there.

Okay. I will. Thanks

I think your estrogen is high. Your symptoms correlate with high estradiol, as I was checking this out yesterday.

Also, I read a study which tested estrogen patches on men with hot flashes. It stated that the patches (extra estrogen) lowered fsh, but lh remained the same. Which correlates with your blood test.

Have you ever taken Accutane? Had a karyotype test done?

My estrogoen (normal test) was Estradiol - 19.5pg/ml

This is fairly normal if I am correct?

I never had a karyotype test done, I don't have access to it either unfortunately.

I've never taken Accutane. I've only taken tetracycline (antibiotic). Why?

Title: Re: 18y updated situation
Post by: PeakT on December 29, 2015, 12:03:25 am
13.9 is the old osteoporosis threshold from what I read.  But you don't want to be anywhere near that
Title: Re: 18y updated situation
Post by: jumpingthrough on December 29, 2015, 01:32:28 pm
My 19.5pg/ml reading was from a standard estradiol test. This tend to test incorrectly higher if I'm right. Would it mean my estradiol in reality probably is lower?
Title: Re: 18y updated situation
Post by: Kierkegaard on December 29, 2015, 02:48:56 pm
My 19.5pg/ml reading was from a standard estradiol test. This tend to test incorrectly higher if I'm right. Would it mean my estradiol in reality probably is lower?

A very good chance, yes.  But biometrically you have this thing called reliability, or how when you take a test one time you have a very good chance that its results are roughly the same the second time.  Non-standard assays are reasonably reliable as far as I can tell, so if you find a study where an estradiol number is pulled -- and all studies I know use the standard assay -- then you're fine using the standard assay yourself because you can compare your results with the study's given you share the same assay. 
Title: Re: 18y updated situation
Post by: PeakT on December 29, 2015, 08:43:39 pm
My 19.5pg/ml reading was from a standard estradiol test. This tend to test incorrectly higher if I'm right. Would it mean my estradiol in reality probably is lower?

Yes assuming it was not LC-MS/MS which is what guys usually mean by "the standard test" from all I have read.  The standard test will pick up on CRP and other molecules.
Title: Re: 18y updated situation
Post by: jumpingthrough on April 07, 2016, 03:58:47 pm
Hi guys ;D
So this is my situation atm: On TRT 120mg per week for 5 weeks. Last 3 weeks bumped it up to 150mg/week.
I inject every 3.5 days. As for other medications I have since 3 days ago also started taking Milkthistle and Berberine (800mg/day). To hopefully increase my SHBG.

I lift weights 6x days a week about 40-50min per session. And I have a quite physical job.

Lab results below is taken on the morning of third day after injection (I would inject on the evening).

I have all my Pre-TRT lab results on the first post.


Note: I donated blood 1 month ago. I will donate again in 1.5 months.

LABS:
Blood
Hematocrit 0,49 (0,39-0,49)
Hemoglobin 150g/l (134-170g/l)
MCV 96 (82-98FL)

Fat lipids
HDL Cholestrol 1,03 (0,8-2.1mmol/L)
Cholestrol 3,58 (2,9-6,1mmol/L)
LDL Cholestrol 2,36 (1,2-4,3mmol/L)

Glucose 5mmol/L

Hormones
TSH 1,3miU/L (0,4-4,0miu/L (This one really shocks me. I have always been around 3-3.3TSH over the course of 2 ½ years. Dosen't TRT worsen thyroid function? This puts TSH in optimal range!...)
Total testosterone 138ng/dl (232-900ng/dl)
Estradiol (nonsensitive) <12pg/ml (<40pg/ml)

Liver
ALAT 0,3 ukat/L (0,15-1,1 µkat/L)
ASAT 0,53 (0,25-0,75 µkat/L)

Iron 14umol/L (9-34 µmol/L)

Kidney
Kalium 3,9umol/L (3,5-4,4 mmol/L)
Creatinine108umol/L (60-100 µmol/L)
Natirum 141nmol/L (137-145 mmol/L)

I have a few thoughts. Please write yours.

Obviously my total T is very low considering the amount I inject 75mg every 3.5 days and I'm at 138ng/dl on the third day is awfully low.

1. My medicine might be underdosed?
2. My low SHBG clears the testosterone extremely fast?
3. Why is my TSH in the optimal range for the first time in ever? I thoguht that TRT is suppose to worsen thyroid function not improve it? I must say that on TRT I do feel alot more resistant to cold now. I use to get cold really easily.


How should we proceed?
1. Increase frequency to 3x a week injections?
2. Increase dose?
3. ???????

Thank you very much  :)


Title: Re: 18y updated situation
Post by: Cataceous on April 07, 2016, 04:48:08 pm
It's hard to comprehend that you could inject so much testosterone and have such a low serum level. In contrast, 100 mg per week takes me over 1,200 ng/dL. Sure, your SHBG is a little low, but not ridiculously so. And yes, the usual advice is to increase injection frequency and dosage, but it seems as though something else could be going on. Is there any chance what you're injecting is lacking in testosterone? I think I'd want to try a vial from a different lot to be sure.
Title: Re: 18y updated situation
Post by: jumpingthrough on April 08, 2016, 07:19:50 am
Thanks. I will try another lab and retest bloods in a Monty. Do you suggest the same frequency or to increase it?
Title: Re: 18y updated situation
Post by: Cataceous on April 08, 2016, 10:42:48 am
I'd increase the frequency if it's not too much of a hassle.
Title: Re: 18y updated situation
Post by: euphorixx1 on April 08, 2016, 06:48:35 pm
Are you positive you are injecting real test?  It looks like you are shut down due to your levels being lower than original post, but are you positive that it says 200mg/ml?  Or does the bottle say 100mg/ml?
Title: Re: 18y updated situation
Post by: jumpingthrough on April 11, 2016, 03:25:54 pm
Are you positive you are injecting real test?  It looks like you are shut down due to your levels being lower than original post, but are you positive that it says 200mg/ml?  Or does the bottle say 100mg/ml?

Hi
I am selfmedicating, so my medicine isn't pharmagrade. The bottle said 250mg/ml of testosterone enanthate and I'm injecting 0,3ml twice a week.

I'm trying another lab now. Yeah I am pretty sure there is atleast some testosterone in the vial as you said. Since my testosterone went down that low and also the estradiol tanked. I could also feel my nuts shrinking abit and scrotum getting abit tighter.

I think it's most likely that the lab was heavily underdosed. But do you think it's likely that my low SHBG tanks out 75mg testosterone to 138ng/dl in only 3 days? I understand that low SHBG clears out testosterone faster. But really that fast? Is there someone with low SHBG that have lab results?

Damn it sucks for sure wasting 2-3 months just wondering if what you're injecting is real..