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Messages - Mina417

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I am a 34 y/o male diagnosed with low T. In September 2013 my TT was at 350 prior to treatment. FT was in the normal range. Urologist treated me with Axiron: 1 pump under each arm/day (30 mg/pump). No noticeable changes in libido, my primary symptom. At my next appointment TT was only 390 and FT was still in the lower end of normal range. Doc increased dosage to two pumps under each arm/day (doubled previous script). At this dosage I noticed sexual cravings increase as I had never felt them before. I was constantly harassing the wife! Regarding other symptoms (depression, weight gain, lack of energy) I did not feel a noticeable difference. Next round of bloodwork came back with TT in the upper 600s and FT at the max end of the normal range. Voila! Libido problem solved!

Long story short, my insurance changed and the cost of Axiron has increased from 50/month (copay) to 250/month (copay)! I am very stressed about this because I had a great result and now I likely can't afford the meds anymore! I have read that T-cyp can be cheaper. I want to recommend this course of action to my doc to cut my costs. I feel like my doc might be a bit clueless on the injections. Any protcol recommendations?


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Today was my first day with axiron. It was tricky to apply and I will continue to worry about my application technique until the stuff starts working (if it does!). The solution was squirted into an applicator that was then applied to my underarm (post deodorant application). It took me multiple swipes to get the contents of 1 pump applied. It ran all over my fingers and down my side. I'm hoping I can get better at this. I am a bit worried about whether or not the application will affect the dosage. It also seem counterintuitive to apply the stuff OVER my deodorant. Wouldn't it absorb better the other way around?

Regarding symptoms, I felt a bit more clear today than usual. I am also under a lot of stress at work and have had some anxiety attacks this week. I did not have one today though. I felt a bit less fatigued, but no real changes to libido. I was a bit surprised at my decreased anxiety today. I did not expect that. No real changes to motivation or confidence either. I do feel a bit less irritable.

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Thanks Peak. Doc gve me a lab slip to get tested just prior to a three month follow up. Is that soon enough?

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Testosterone, Hormones and General Men's Health / Re: Second attempt
« on: September 26, 2013, 01:07:51 am »
Just passed the 200 pound border at 199.7 pounds, almost crossed the 90kg mark. Not much to report. I have about 30 pounds to go. Another observation is that i'm much less emotional and more clear thinking now.... even when i'm depressed.

It would be interesting to add another measurement to your stats. Perhaps, a 1-5 Likert scale of how your depression symptoms are, 1 being very depressed and 5 being very happy.

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Testosterone, Hormones and General Men's Health / Re: Second attempt
« on: September 26, 2013, 12:57:28 am »
For future reference:

If I start to feel cold symptoms, I do the following:

1) Begin taking 500 mg Vitamin C every 2-3 hours and
2) Take my zinc every 12 hours (instead of daily

This works very well and, coupled with my whole foods diet, I rarely get colds or flus.  And this is in marked contrast to my life in my 20's and 30's which was one continual sinus infection...

Where is your supplement protocol? I have been trying to find it, can't remember where I saw it.

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hhahaha that made my day. Can I forward this to my doctor?

I'm glad that it made you laugh. Sometimes all you can do is laugh at the ridiculous thing people say. Unfortunately, some of these quacks wield a bit of power over our lives.

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Met with the urologist yesterday. I will be starting 60mg/day of Axiron. I am hopeful, but realistic. I am a bit concerned with the doc. When we discussed hRT preparations I felt like I knew more than he did. When I asked what my T levels should be for my symptoms to decrease he said, 400s or 500s (I am currently 350). I'm a little concerned that he is low balling, but at the end of the day I don't care what my number is as long as I feel better.

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Doctors jumping to conclusions about patients seeking testosterone for cosmetic reasons is as dangerous as pilots not noticing another 747 sitting on the runway they are trying to land on. Sorry for your struggles. I once had a GP tell me not to worry about my depression/anxiety and he told me to go to church more often. Seriously? Is that a prescription?

When I hear stories like yours I get depressed. How are people supposed to get help when doctors are trained to be so mistrustful.

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Thanks Peak! Is it unusual that injections aren't covered?

I believe so.  Injections are very expensive.  I hate to be suspicious, but sometimes you wonder if the pharma companies are able to even influence the insurance formularies.  There are big pharma companies who manufacture cypionate, but their profits have got to be a fraction of the profit they get off of something as high priced as Androgel.

I think Peak meant to say very inexpensive.   A 10ml vial is around $100 I believe without insurance.  Kaiser charges me $47.00 for a 10ml vial.  You can get syringes etc for about $50.00 for a 1-2 yr supply depending on how many times you inject weekly.

How long would a 10mL vial last if you were doing 200mg bi weekly?

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Testosterone, Hormones and General Men's Health / Re: HRT and insurance
« on: September 20, 2013, 10:44:33 pm »
Thanks Peak! Is it unusual that injections aren't covered?

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Testosterone, Hormones and General Men's Health / HRT and insurance
« on: September 20, 2013, 04:41:35 pm »
I will be discussing Hrt options with a urologist in Tuesday. I have searched my plan's website (Aetna) and discovered that topical gels are the only things covered.  Is that unusual? I am worried because I have read about the ineffectiveness of the gels. Anyone heard of ways around this?

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I rechecked my levels from 2010. My TT level was actually 395, free test was 76.2. Fsh was 29.5.

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Wow, I actually did not know my numbers were lower than lab corps standards. I will be discussing trt with my doc. Thank you again or the links and forum info. You have been more helpful than three different docs!

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Quick recap of me:

Two blood draws:

2009: TT 320  ng/mL
2013: TT 350  ng/mL

Symptoms: oligospermia, small testicles, years of depression, fatigue, lack of motivation, recent anxiety, irritability, reduced/absent libido,

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Hey, I know some keys are under a lot of stress and I don't want to make anyone overly concerned.  But Klinefelter can lead to a kind of pear-shaped, gyno-prone body shape.  Look at this pic on  wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klinefelter_syndrome

Again, don't panic.  I'm just passing along info.  You may know a friend who looks like this as well.

Naw, it's not klinefelter, atleast not for me (I did gain muscle pubertally, i did gain body hair, and i had spontaneous erections and strong nocturnal erections, never had gyno as far as i remember).  People with klinefelters  are usually entirely hairless, are truly skinny-fat(as in no muscle and covered in layers of fat), have hips wider than their shoulders, gynocomastia(bitch tits) , usually abnormally small testicles, are tall(6-6'1 +) and have sexual problems since puberty. I don't fit into that profile. I just have wider than the average hips, which doesn't seem that uncommon when i look at fitness models. But unlike them, i haven't built a solid upper body which evens out my lower body. Me and Mina don't have the average muscle and fat distribution for males.

I don't look like this without any clothes(Imagery may be disturbing). http://smithbiologyp1.wikispaces.com/file/view/klinefelter_syndrome-_bio.jpg/206540798/352x374/klinefelter_syndrome-_bio.jpg
or this
http://labmed.hallym.ac.kr/cytogenetics/cytogen-ds.files/XXY-01.jpg

I have some features like those pictures, except that I have much more hair on my body. Neither of the two real pics had gynocomastia. I don't either, but that body shape is familiar.

I am very concerned about the causes of my issues. If it is genetic, I would hope that I could find some help for my son so he doesn't have to deal with years of just accepting fatigue, depression, and lack of motivation as part of life. The low sperm count was probably the most shocking revelation to me and it was also very emasculating. I have searched and searched, but I fit no known category of cause for primary hypogonadism, other than unknown genetic origin. Maybe, or maybe it was smoking at an early age, or maybe it was smoking pot, or a million other things I now feel horribly guilty about.

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