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Messages - Kierkegaard

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1
... So I'll cut out the PA and see how I feel.

If it isn't the PA, i have no *idea* what has been contributing to my high E2 symptoms.

Hopefully that will do it!

Looks like it did!  Since stopping a few days ago my skin is much better, head is clearer, and mood is better -- all reversals of typical high E symptoms.

This is really interesting stuff for me, as it validates in another way the idea that I have an adrenal enzyme downregulation problem, which explains why my DHEA-S has always been at the very top of the range -- and seeing how virtually every guy on TRT sees a drop in DHEA-S because LH and FSH (which also provide conversion of cholesterol to pregnenolone and therefore DHEA, cortisol, etc.), my DHEA-S must have been in the 600s or 700s before getting on TRT.

Nothing like using your own body as an experimental playground, eh?

2
Testosterone, Hormones and General Men's Health / Re: Tea is bad for T!
« on: October 17, 2019, 02:07:25 am »
Can you provide a juicy excerpt or two?

3
Cat, I think I found the reason for my high E2 symptoms. I've been taling pantothenic acid (B5) at supraphysiological doses to see if it would help my possibly wounded adrenals, and it turns out that PA increases adrenal function (esp if you're deficient, as I slightly was), meaning more pregnenolone leasing to more cortisol.

HowEVER, if you're like me and your adrenals are a little "stopped up", causing (in my case) more DHEA and estradiol rather than going down to cortisol and progesterone, this PA ends up being countertherapeutic because it ultimately increases estradiol. Hence my symptoms. So I'll cut out the PA and see how I feel.

If it isn't the PA, i have no *idea* what has been contributing to my high E2 symptoms.

4
ANy anti-histamine use? I use a amino by the name of L-Histadine...fixes me right up with no antihistamines needed. I used to be double and tripled up on Zyrtec, Flonase, and Pseudoepherdrine but L-Histadine got me off all of it.

I try up to 1000-1500 mg histidine with no apparent help in symptoms. But drinking nettle tea helps, and it contains histamine (and acetylcholine) directly. So I'm wondering if my gut biome is lacking on beneficial bacteria that convert histidine to histamine via the histidine decarboxylase enzyme.

Either way l-histidine is awesome for allergies, and has the added benefit of kicking conventional medicine in the face by working through increasing plasma histamine after conversion. I found one study that pointed out that LOW plasma histamine was associated with more severe allergic reactions, meaning blood/plasma levels are to be distinguished from actual mast cell activity, i.e., low plasma histamine apparently is associated with or causes higher release of mast cell mediators, notably histamine.

Really, really fascinating stuff.

5
Though soy lecithin is relatively estrogenic, is the quantity consumed large enough that it matters? The worst soy food cited by this research has "1500 ng estradiol equivalents per kilogram", or 1.5 mcg/kg. Typical daily estradiol production for males is probably many 10s of mcg per day. So eat a kilogram of the worst soy product and it's still only a few percent of your natural production, and that assumes efficient absorption.

That's what confuses me too.  I have changed nothing about my diet.  The only possibility I can think to explain my pretty massive increase in estrogenic symptoms is allergies have been worse, and I've found some scanty research pointing to a possible positive feedback loop between histamine and estradiol.  The only other thing is consuming lots of cough drops.

But considering that the cough drops are many, *and* most importantly they're lozenges, meaning they bypass the liver, the bioavailability of any phytoestrogenic effect would be considerably higher.  I'm definitely "brittle" as the endocrinologists put it regarding estradiol: just a little too much puts me over into symptom land. 

6
I had been having high E2 symptoms for the last week or more, and about two weeks ago I started taking cough drops for allergies, which suddenly got bad as they often do this time of year in Texas.

Absolutely nothing has changed other than adding adenosylcobalamin (the mitochondrial form of B12, and interestingly since taking this I've noticed a quick loss of 5-6 pounds) and consuming more cough drops.  Well, I look at the ingredients list and what else do I see than "soy lecithin"? 

This is especially troubling seeing how cough drops are lozenges, and as such they bypass liver processing, meaning any ingredients will be more potent given that they hit the bloodstream more easily.

Just a warning for anyone with a cough and sensitive to estradiol.

7
C,

I'm assuming you applied the progesterone to the testes because it circumvents the "fat can retain progesterone for a long time" idea?

What do you think about wrist application?

8
IIRC, phenylalanine (which directly precedes tyrosine in becoming dopamine) has higher bioavailability and/or cross the blood-brain barrier better than tyrosine.  I also seem to notice that unless my B6 levels are supplemented with a healthy dose of P5P/active B6 (25 mg) that the dl-phenylalanine I take doesn't seem to do anything.

So you might look into trying DLPA/phenylalanine and/or taking P5P to help conversion from l-dopa to dopamine.

I've never tried P5P or B6 with it.  Doesn't B6 help with serotonin and dopamine conversions for phenylalanine to l-dopa to dopamine?  I know Vitamin C apparently helps somehow with dopamine chemically, but I already am getting plenty of Vitamin C so that is a non-issue for me. 

What does P5P do or is that Rx?  I've not heard of it..

Yes to your question, spot on. P5P is what B6 gets converted into, but there can be conversion problems so it's usually better just to take P5P. People typically refer to it as "active B6" for this reason.

9
That would only apply if you swallow, eh? Not with sublingual use?

10
Thanks C, really useful info.

What do you mean wrt metabolism issues with oral progesterone?

I also have questions about the range, seeing how Labcorp 's range is .2-1.4 ng/mL for males.

11
IIRC, phenylalanine (which directly precedes tyrosine in becoming dopamine) has higher bioavailability and/or cross the blood-brain barrier better than tyrosine.  I also seem to notice that unless my B6 levels are supplemented with a healthy dose of P5P/active B6 (25 mg) that the dl-phenylalanine I take doesn't seem to do anything.

So you might look into trying DLPA/phenylalanine and/or taking P5P to help conversion from l-dopa to dopamine.

12
Using it has correlated with improvements in libido, sleep and erection quality. I won't go so far as to claim causality for sure; my situation is complicated by the—hopefully—temporary need to use exogenous estradiol to raise otherwise undetectable serum levels, a bizarre situation indeed. However, the first night I tried progesterone the effects seemed dramatic compared to baseline. This and various articles have convinced me that it's another parameter to adjust to achieve the best results from TRT.

C, what were your experiences when you tried oral progesterone, and how long of a half life do you know or suspect it had? 

Because of issues with progesterone anecdotally getting "trapped" in fat tissue for a while, I'm looking into oral supplementation, and can only find 4 mg drops so far, such as this brand: https://www.amazon.com/BioMatrix-Pro-Adapt-Drop-500-Drops/dp/B07C4MQ7JP/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=progeterone&qid=1568088526&s=gateway&sr=8-5

I'm interested in progesterone balancing estrogen as well as allopregnenolone, which is calming, for sleep.  I'd also like to consider "backfilling" cortisol before trying hydrocortisone given my slightly negative response to T3/NDT.

13
C,

Did you see this thread I put up a while back? https://www.peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=15110.msg135928#msg135928

Scanty but seems to provide some possible evidence of the rT3 "clogging" hypothesis, though how much we can generalize given the study involved choriocarcinoma cells.

Thanks, K. I hadn't read that thread. It was before I started taking more of an interest in thyroid issues.

Totally understand.  I'm just trying to figure out, like you, why some people feel worse on T4-only meds, including myself.  Let me know what you think when you get a chance to read the study.

14
C,

Did you see this thread I put up a while back? https://www.peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=15110.msg135928#msg135928

Scanty but seems to provide some possible evidence of the rT3 "clogging" hypothesis, though how much we can generalize given the study involved choriocarcinoma cells.

15
Worth noting that Dr Jonathan Wright (one of the best in the nation) always recommends taking the amino acid lysine when taking citrulline or arginine to prevent shingles/herpes outbreaks, seeing how lysine can prevent herpes.

Also, there has been some research showing a powerful interaction effect between arginine or citrulline (I agree that the latter works better and also has a longer half life, but some people respond better to the former) and pycnogenol. 

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