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Messages - charliebizz

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1
My troubles are likely different than yours. The mitochondrial dysfunction really knocks me down. Interestingly, caffeine helps as do certain amino acids. I find that Amino Energy by ON is a huge help. Along with prednisone and an occasional rev erba sarm type product.

My point is that this stuff started before I turned 50, and over the years I've been able to find products that help immensely. In fact, I'm feeling well lately.
would you say trt could have added to some of your issues. Or did all your current health issues start before trt ?

2
...
so your saying trt has effected your mental state over time ?

I can't be definitive about causes and effects, but I do think the loss of upstream hormones contributed to those negative effects that then resolved with hormonal restoration. The problems had come on slowly over some years of TRT, but they were fixed relatively quickly, over a period of months. It's less easy to link the problems with mood and motivation to TRT. TRT did help initially with mood, but that effect waned. My impression is that motivation declined further under TRT, but it hadn't been great while I was hypogonadal either. While these issues could have a causal connection to TRT, their connection to agingóincreasing MAO-B?ó and old head injuries might be stronger. Who knows?

One other point I have some confidence in is that when TRT suppresses progesterone it can have negative effects. One possible reason: "Progesterone, through its neurosteroid active metabolites such as 5α-dihydroprogesterone and allopregnanolone, acts indirectly as a positive allosteric modulator of the GABAA receptor."[R]
have you tried preg and or prog? If so what was the outcome

3
My single piece of anecdotal evidence says that restoring the upstream hormones helps with cognition, sexual function and libido. Not so much with mood and motivation. For these the dopamine-boosting combination of selegiline and phenethylamine is proving useful.
so your saying trt has effected your mental state over time ?

4
I've probably been on TRT longer than most people here (due to health issues that cropped up when I was in my early 30's) I'll be 58 this year.

I'm as happy as I've ever been, despite some really bad-health cycles. TRT does not seem to have caused any form of depression or mental nonsense. In fact, I'd simply say that I know my TRT levels are correct when I have a normal (for me) high level of confidence. I'm not stupid, I'll never have a supermodel wife and that's not what I mean :) as I'm WAY too old, poor, ugly and fat for that. I'm talking about general risk taking in life. TRT, with levels in the normal range, does result in more risk tolerance in everything from real estate transactions. to flying light aircraft.
thank you for that. It could very well be my dose is just too high for me and my low shbg. I usually test at trough and my tt would come back around 450-500. I was doing 3x a week 90mg. I would inject mwf and test on sat. This time around on 102 mg per week I tested 8 hrs after injection tt was 900 but my ft was 208 and top of range like 150. I'm gonna drop the dose down some and see how it goes.

5
I got so dizzy and drunk feeling after taking a wellbutrin this morning that I had to go lay down for awhile. And last night when I went to bed I would have this rush come over my body every few seconds. It would start in the middle and shoot out in all directions. Between that and a different body part jerking every few seconds I barely got any sleep. If this doesn't go away soon I'll be discontinuing wellbutrin.
I had that happen a few years ago when I started low dose lexapro. I never call into work but I had too I couldn't even walk. It went away a few hours later and then I had a few vertigo episodes a couple months later. I was on a super low dose and getting off was a nightmare. I've been off like 8 months and still think I have some lingering effects.


6
I do myself always wonder about the long term sides of htpa shutdown.ive been feeling slightly more depressed and harder to enjoy myself. Only been on trt this time around for a year. (been on and off for 11 years). But it also could be situational. With covid restrictions and it being winter and being trapt in the house with a 1 and 3 year old lol

OMG a 3 year old, I feel your pain!! same here ours was fine when she was 1 year old, only mildly crazy but now at 3 1/2 .......

You could be right about long term effects of TRT plenty of anecdotal examples of severe depression and suicide even with professionals who know this stuff.
I feel like you might be referring to Dr John. What's nuts is I was his patient when he passed. I freaked out and jumped right off trt. Now being back on I started questioning again and I even tried to get off for a few weeks. Usually I get off pretty easy not this time. So Im back on lol

7
Does anyone have any studies or information on the long term consequences of htpa shut down from trt ?

Over the years on the forums we do hear of people becoming more depressed or lack of joy in activity's and such. Do we know if that's from the suppression of up stream hormones effecting neurotransmitters or can it be many men use too much t and keep levels too high?  Any info would be great thanks

8
Have you ever tried a different ester ?  T cyp gave me all sorts of wacky side effects. It crushed my cortisol. And I confirmed it with blood and saliva. I changed to enathate and it's been a much better experience.

I do myself always wonder about the long term sides of htpa shutdown.ive been feeling slightly more depressed and harder to enjoy myself. Only been on trt this time around for a year. (been on and off for 11 years). But it also could be situational. With covid restrictions and it being winter and being trapt in the house with a 1 and 3 year old lol

9
For what itís worth. Me and another member here who chat frequently on pm have both noticed trt helps us with getting sick. When I was on trt last year I didnít get sick at all the 8 months I was on I usually get sick a few times every season change. I have nothing to back it up other then my own experience

10
Have you had a complete thyroid workup?

I too was diagnosed with sleep apnea, and I still use a CPAP, but it never made any difference in how I feel and I've recently concluded that my apnea was really caused by my hypothyroidism. There is a study that looked into the difficulty of diagnosing sleep apnea in the presence of hypothyroidism.
i have decent thyroid labs. But  body temp usually 97.0 -97.5

Tsh 2.06
Ft4 1.1 range .08-1.8
Ft3 3.5 range 2.3-4.2

11
It was amazing for the first three months. I felt like I was 18 again. Lost 25 lbs and wasn't even trying, I almost had a six pack going on, had energy like crazy, mood was wonderful, mind and memory sharp as a tack, libido thru the roof again and would get hard as a rock at the mere thought of a woman. It went away as quickly as it came and now I feel like a big ol fat blob of nothing.
i donít know whoís situation is more frustrating lol. I never felt anything. But you felt that glimmer of hope haha. I hope you gmc an figure this all out

12
The reason I've tried for this long is 1) because I know what trt did for me in the beginning, it was amazing. I believe it's the kidneys causing most if not all of my issues and I thought I could fix that and 2) because I know what's coming when I quit. Even more fatigue, body aches and pains, depression, severe heart palps and skipping beats etc and I'm not looking forward to that. I've tried bigger doses and all it did was cause my hematocrit and hemoglobin to go higher quicker.
see I didnít ever get that amazing feeling on trt. Thatís also why itís harder for me to deal with sides. Only real positive was less overall pain in my body. But like you after 6 months I was lazy unmotivated lacked passion or could care less about my hobbies.

13
Here's something else that just crossed my mind that points to my kidneys being sensitive to t. The kidneys make erythropoietin (EPO). EPO is responsible for red blood cell production. I HAVE to give blood every 2 months because my hematocrit and hemoglobin go high. When I quit trt for 4 months my hematocrit and hemoglobin actually dropped. This is just further evidence to me that my kidneys do not play well with trt and it has possibly caused kidney damage. I had a doctor tell me trt didn't cause hematocrit and hemoglobin to go up, it was the sleep apnea. I beg to differ. This same doctor said your co2 is low because you hyperventilate when you get blood drawn. 🤣🤣 The last 4 times I've had blood drawn I asked the girl to watch my breathing and tell me if I'm breathing fast. I even made a point to breath slowly and my co2 is still low!
i commend you for having the balls to stay on trt with that bad of sides. Iím in the same boat as you just not as drastic sides. But I just canít find a reason to stay  on trt. But I worry about living with total t levels of 211-350  long term also. The new wave of thinking is that we actually arenít taking enough t. A few groups have people taking around 200mg a week. But I felt horrible at 120 a week how could I feel better taking more lol.

14
The cpap machine or mask is not the problem. My shallow breathing is the problem. If I consciously breath a little deeper my o2 level is great but I can't consciously work on breathing while I'm sleeping. You can have all the pressure in the world but if I'm still breathing shallow and/or slow it's not going to change anything.
any chance of coming off trt or you feel the positive out weight these negatives your experiencing?

15
What was your weekly t dose?

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