Messages

1

Testosterone, Hormones and General Men's Health / Re: Observations on use of clomid for 3 months

« on: June 24, 2022, 10:05:58 am »

I am 33 M , borderline diabetic. I was diagnosed with low testosterone(8.2 nmol/L) normal range(8.4 - 28. and low sperm count. I also noticed that I wasn't having  harder erections and morning erections.
I started regulating my blood glucose levels strictly, exercise regularly  and got the  hba1c below to 5.7 . I am on  clomid for past 3 months. I have been consistent and regular with the time I take the pill except for couple of days from the past 2 weeks.
After 2 months on Clomid, my erections were better and also started getting strong morning wood too. Now, its almost end of the 3 month cycle that doctor prescribed and I don't have morning erections from past week.
I am going to get a hormonal workup next week . But , want to check if anyone observed the same ?




 

I have been on Clomid on and off about 6 times and yes thats a normal experience, 2 months are great but after that the likes of nocturnal erections will start to subside and tend to zero.

The culprit is usually blamed on increasingly elevated Estrogen which builds up to a higher ratio than your Testosterone which gives you these poor outcomes for ED and lower libido.
This even on low doses such as 12.5mg every other day.
 
At your young age I suspect your dosage is probably too high if its 25mg every day, the younger you are the stronger the effect on Testosterone clomid has. ( 12.5 mg every other day is a good start point)

You probably need to look at your bloods again including Estrogen E2 and also do a sperm test though sperm takes quite a long time to build, 6 months or longer to really get near its peak ( spermatogenous is a slow process).

My last foray into a Clomid protocol was fairly complex using Clomid, anastrozole (AI) and Cabergoline plus a few other vits and supplements, this gave a very good result on 25mg eod ( every other day) with strong nocturnal erections which lasted for about 6 months or so and good T levels and extremely high sperm count ( given I was 61, your dosage seems far too high).

When you get your next blood tests you probably should test for LH and FSH both of which affect fertility and T levels. You should probably test for Prolactin and albumin and SHBG (albumin is helpful for calculating your free T )

I presume your Doc also did a Thyroid panel?

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Testosterone, Hormones and General Men's Health / Re: Coming off TRT log and where to go from here

« on: June 21, 2022, 09:27:09 am »

What are your tested Prolactin levels, did you have them tested for each sequence of bloods?

As I understand it cabergoline needs to be taken regardless of what the MRI shows as with out it you relapse to the original start point so it would be valid to see where the level sits at and maybe tweak it lower or higher for best results re feeling and libido.

3

Testosterone, Hormones and General Men's Health / Nitroglycerin Gel for Erectile Dysfunction

« on: June 13, 2022, 07:52:27 am »

Have there been any recent updates on this and if the Gel is available?

I have some of this in the sub lingual spray form, I may experiment.

https://www.healthline.com/health/mens-health/where-to-buy-nitroglycerin-gel-for-ed

4

Testosterone, Hormones and General Men's Health / Re: New here

« on: June 09, 2022, 09:43:12 am »

Seconded as to what Cat has said, possibly a head MRI to check out the pituitary gland though even if they see something not much they can do but it may highlight a reason for them to take more interest.
Prolactin as well as Testosterone are affected by this gland but most doctors seem to neglect the importance of it, a quick google will show some of the bad effects if it too elevated.
Fair to almost certain that its secondary hypogonadism, LH is a good predicter and whilst yours isn't flat lined with those T numbers it should be trying harder to boost your T indicating a feedback loop problem.
Please let us know how you get on.

5

Testosterone, Hormones and General Men's Health / Re: 3 weeks into TRT, heavy heartbeat/palpitations - will this subside?

« on: January 21, 2022, 03:05:45 am »

Hopefully Cat will have some insight on this as I dont do injectables however if you are just starting out its possible that the dosage is a little high, have you had blood tests to see where your levels lie?
There has been a bit of recent discussion on other threads here which tends to indicate that generally people possibly do better on a lower weekly dosage.

6

Testosterone, Hormones and General Men's Health / Re: To T or not to T

« on: January 21, 2022, 03:00:43 am »

Make sure when you get retested that they include LH, FSH, Total T, albumin, SHBG, prolactin is also useful.

Include the numbers, measurement units and reference ranges when you post them.

One thing to note is that Doctors comments of "that looks normal" are just as likely not as most doctors dont have a clue when it comes to what hormone levels should look like.

7

Testosterone, Hormones and General Men's Health / Re: Starting with Defy and Sharing My Numbers

« on: January 19, 2022, 04:50:36 am »

...
I'm worried that I'm unnecessarily screwing up my HPTA, so I am still keen to try nasal gel and maybe enclomiphene.
...

Since I go to extreme lengths to simulate a functioning HPTA I hate to see one that's working be deactivated.

Absolutely agree with that, I just dumped off a brief interlude with T cream as my previous Clomid protocol which would be better at preserving up and down stream plus god knows what else made me feel a whole lot better this time around than the exogenous T.

I have been on Clomid many times but this last time I tightened up the protocol with AI's and Cabergoline which worked well, this time round I will experiment with other supplement to see if I can titivate it further (libido).

Any floater problems with Clomid?

It looks like the exogenous T has crashed my libido and it's only been a little over four weeks.

No knew floaters that's for sure, I have had floaters all my life and my brain has trained itself to not see them unless you really concentrate on it.

I have been on and off Clomid about 4 or 5 times, initially with just 12.5 mg eod but I got much better results on 25 mg eod which I am currently on.
Libido still is not good you really need an AI and I think other things to enhance dopamine.

8

Testosterone, Hormones and General Men's Health / Re: Starting with Defy and Sharing My Numbers

« on: January 15, 2022, 04:54:29 am »

...
I'm worried that I'm unnecessarily screwing up my HPTA, so I am still keen to try nasal gel and maybe enclomiphene.
...

Since I go to extreme lengths to simulate a functioning HPTA I hate to see one that's working be deactivated.

Absolutely agree with that, I just dumped off a brief interlude with T cream as my previous Clomid protocol which would be better at preserving up and down stream plus god knows what else made me feel a whole lot better this time around than the exogenous T.

I have been on Clomid many times but this last time I tightened up the protocol with AI's and Cabergoline which worked well, this time round I will experiment with other supplement to see if I can titivate it further (libido).

9

Testosterone, Hormones and General Men's Health / Re: High SHBG, estrogen, DHT, prolactin, T

« on: January 03, 2022, 01:20:58 am »

Good healthy LH and FSH that reflect the T levels.
You can only work with the levels you have got, I would look at reducing the Prolactin levels as per Cats suggestion.
You could also look at the Justaskins stack in the stickies above, many men have found them very helpful.

10

Testosterone, Hormones and General Men's Health / Re: High SHBG, estrogen, DHT, prolactin, T

« on: January 01, 2022, 10:08:15 pm »

Would be useful to see some other labs such as FSH and LH.
I dont know what effects the insulin would have on various other blood levels so would hesitate to comment.
Its interesting that you say you have very low body fat but still exhibit gyno symptoms which seems a bit counterintuitive.

Normally you would want to lower the prolactin as this has adverse effects re ED and libido.
Estrodial and total T seem a bit high but with that SHBG I presume that is influencing that or is possibly a consequence of that.

11

Testosterone, Hormones and General Men's Health / Re: Starting with Defy and Sharing My Numbers

« on: December 25, 2021, 02:23:52 am »

It takes a number of assumptions, but you could make some predictions with that data. The assumptions are:

• EOD dosing is frequent enough that serum testosterone doesn't vary much. I found this to be true for myself, but I've seen cases where it clearly does not hold, and the only way to increase certainty is with multiple tests over time.
• The measurements are accurate. Not always a given, and the risk of error is higher with only one set of numbers.
• The underlying clearance rate of testosterone doesn't vary much over time. I've seen my level remain stable over years, but doesn't mean it applies to everyone. It's also easy to envision changes occurring due to changes in liver function, etc.
• Free testosterone is proportional to the dose rate. This is predicted by theory and observed in some studies. However, I haven't seen it stated in any peer-reviewed scientific work, so it must be considered a hypothesis.

In any case, if you trust the Quest free testosterone test then the predicted result is simply :

Free T(Quest) = 261.5 pg/mL / 12.5 mg TC/day * Dose(mg TC/day)

Your drop to 9 mg TC/day implies a Quest free T of 188 pg/mL, still above-range.

The Vermeulen numbers are about the same. With the Vermeulen or Tru-T numbers you can work backwards to predict total testosterone if you also have SHBG.

For example, if your SHBG didn't change then Vermeulen predicts total testosterone on 18 mg TC EOD to be 806 ng/dL.

Thanks for laying it out. Sounds like 9-10 mg TC/day will land me near the range Emeric says is great for libido.

https://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/index.php?threads/10-mg.142864/page-10#post-2566813

You can have your free higher than what is posted in the chart for your age, I am 65 and I have it 315 pg/ml, but I would say 190 to 210 pg/ml it will be OK for any age, it will make you very horny.

Speaking of which: today will be my fourth injection, but I'm happy to report some stirrings of libido already. I've been at a 0 or 1 out of 10 in that department for quite a few days now, so I'm really sensitive to any improvements. I'd say I'm at 2-3/10 as of this morning.

Thanks for that thread very encouraging that less is best.

12

Testosterone, Hormones and General Men's Health / Re: Starting with Defy and Sharing My Numbers

« on: December 17, 2021, 03:47:54 am »

... is [there] a study that links low SHBG with people of a larger height weight ratio?
...

Thanks Cat, never knew of the correlation. I must get my BMI down.

Here's the first one that popped up: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10634401/

The serum concentration of sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) is inversely related to weight ... Analyzed by multiple regression, controlling for testosterone and estradiol levels, ... body mass index (P<0.001) and protein intake (P<0.03) were negatively correlated to SHBG concentration. ...

13

Testosterone, Hormones and General Men's Health / Re: Starting with Defy and Sharing My Numbers

« on: December 16, 2021, 11:37:22 pm »

What would be the physiological basis? Peripherally related, a study highlighted not long ago on ExcelMale seemed to show that bigger guys need more exogenous testosterone to achieve the same level of total testosterone. Superficially this makes sense if you assume a larger distribution space in bigger men. However, poster "readalot" pointed out that it could also be reflecting lower SHBG in larger individuals. SHBG would be inversely related to mass—of course this would primarily be unhealthy fat mass.

Thats interesting, is their a study that links low SHBG with people of a larger height weight ratio?

...
Personally I haven't found high T levels and DHT levels to be detrimental and indeed found my mood and lack of anxiety were best at these very elevated levels, I dont think there is any Pharmacological identified issues with having over range levels of these 2 though you will find many professionals who beleive that it has but there are no reliable studies that support them at all.

While there may not be anything definitive, there are valid reasons to have concerns about the long-term effects on the heart of high levels of androgens. Additionally, as with most hormones, there's a U-shaped mortality curve associated with testosterone levels. It doesn't prove causality, but it serves to emphasize that men operating at high levels are essentially performing their own studies. If the perceived benefits outweigh the nebulous risks then have at it. But I think the average guy on TRT should be strongly encouraged to operate in the realm of normal physiology. And by normal physiology I mean healthy-young-man averages, not range-tops.

I fully agree and would not recommend people aim for any thing more than mid range unless it doesnt give them desirable results and they are in a phase of experimentation too try and find a better result.

14

Testosterone, Hormones and General Men's Health / Re: Starting with Defy and Sharing My Numbers

« on: December 14, 2021, 11:12:20 pm »

You may be interested in this study out of Japan where they used a low dose testosterone ointment applied to the scrotum. The dose was not high enough or of long enough duration to suppress LH and FSH. It may be possible to get similar results with testosterone cream.

The efficacy and safety of short-acting testosterone ointment (Glowmin) for late-onset hypogonadism in accordance with testosterone circadian rhythm

Thanks for that link, think I will pursue that with the current compounded cream that I use.

15

Testosterone, Hormones and General Men's Health / Re: Starting with Defy and Sharing My Numbers

« on: December 14, 2021, 09:58:23 pm »

Its all about choices, I dont think that at the moment there is a one size fits all treatment that addresses all the many conditions that Hypogonadism throws up.

In my particular case whilst compounded cream works well at least in maintaining a little libido it is to suppressive of LH and FSH and creates fertility issues which at this time for me is not desirable as we are wanting one more child. Here is where the option of nasal gel becomes useful rather than Clomid which really kills all desire and does due to the elevated E2 levels create depression and mood swings.

Personally I haven't found high T levels and DHT levels to be detrimental and indeed found my mood and lack of anxiety were best at these very elevated levels, I dont think there is any Pharmacological identified issues with having over range levels of these 2 though you will find many professionals who beleive that it has but there are no reliable studies that support them at all.