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Topics - seppuku

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Hi all,

I've had a few (private, not nhs)  blood tests recently, sll coming back low.
I'm now wondering if i'm actually having them done when my test levels are lowest, as to be honest I feel my worst when i wake up in the morning and brighten up a few hours into the day.
My latest  blood draw, taken at 9am came back at 7.86 nmol/l (range 7.6 - 31.4). My LH was 8.4 IU/L, and my shbg was 25.5 nmol/l.
I'd stopped the clomid weeks before, but i'd taken a very small amount of nolvadex (5mg) the week before on a day i was feeling a bit rough.
I guess my question is, is early morning always the best time to draw blood for a testosterone test? Or am i just avoiding the inevitable?

I'll try and keep my story brief. Currently 46 years old, nearly 47. Got my testosterone levels checked around 6 years ago - they were low "normal" (lol!). Two tests were around the low 300's if we're talking ng/dl.  This is in the U.K, on the nhs. I self medicated with low dose clomid, around this time it was really picking up as an alternative therapy to trt. After only a few 12.5mg doses, i got called back for another test - it came back at around 21 nmol/l (low 600's in ng/dl). I didn't tell my doctor what i'd taken, and i continued to take clomid at 12.5mg eod up till now.
Recently, i decided i wanted to get my levels checked as for about 6 - 9 months my libido's been low and i've just not been myself so to speak. I used a private medical company instead of begging my nhs doc (i used Medichecks). Just testosterone as it was on offer. My level was 11.7 nmol/l, (range being 7.6 - 31).  Obviously, without LH etc, this tells very little, so this Monday i had a more comprehensive test done. I had assumed that the clomid had stopped working - it hadn't. My second test had my testosterone the same at 11.7nmol/l (337ng/dl).  My LH though, was 8.1 iu/l (range 1.7 - 8.6), so near the top end of range. I really wasn't expecting that, it's pointing towards primary.
Guys, what would you do now?  I can tell you now that the nhs will not treat this, i don't even see any point in going to see my doc, they're clueless. I have some underground test enanthate i bought a few years back when i thought i might diy trt.  I know that's not ideal though, but i'm at a loss as to whatelse i can do. SHBG was 32.9nmol/l (range 16 - 55), calculated free test was 0.232nmol/l.  Guys, what should my next move be?

Testosterone, Hormones and General Men's Health / Enclomiphene citrate
« on: September 06, 2016, 09:53:23 pm »
I'm pretty sure it's in the rules here not to share suppliers details so I won't.  But I just had to share this information with someone so I'm writing it here!  I regularly get emails from a company that sells liquid peptides and 'research chemicals'.  I can't remember, but I'm guessing I must have bought something from them in the past.  Anyhow, I had a look at the one the other day because they were advertising sale prices, so I had a quick look around their site. There was nothing that took my interest, but I noticed they had a 'wish list' section.  I wondered whether it was legal for these type of places to manufacture and sell enclomiphene citrate (I'll be 100 before Androxal comes out at the rate its going, if at all).  Anyhow, long story short - I dropped them a line asking the question.  I got a reply a couple of days ago saying they would ask their legal people if they could,  and I've just got a reply saying "good news,  we can supply this and will have it ready to buy within the next 48 hours". Of course,  it's a medicine,  and I'm not advising anybody to self medicate or buy from research chemical shops. But I just thought it was interesting as I've googled this before and never found anywhere that sells it (and research chemical shops frequently sell things you should only get from a doctor).

Hopefully if this link works,  just found this clomid study on the suppversity Facebook page some of you might find interesting -


Just thought I'd pass on something I've been experimenting with lately.  I've been taking daily Cialis for a long while now, but it's not always 100% effective.   I've used yohimbine on and off, with mixed results but mostly good. Lately I've been trialing agmatine.  If you want to know about this,  you'd do better googleing it than me try to explain it. Basically though, of the three types of nitric oxide in the body it lowers two but increases the endothelium type.  It's worth looking up. Anyhow, when I first tried it I found my erections were actually worse. It can be a relaxing supplement,  so I put it down to that. Anyhow, long story short - daily low dose cialis, approx 500-750 mg agmatine,  and low dose yohimbine hcl (half a 2.5mg cap) has enabled me to leave my girlfriend walking funny. I get very sttong erections from this, increased libido and more intense orgasms. And before adding the agmatine and yohimbine,  I was doing ok in this department,  it's just improved things drastically.  One thing I would say though, is don't take the agmatine and yohimbine at the same time.  I've read they antagonise each other, but taken hours apart I've found them to be synergistic.

After reading many great things about agmatine, I went and bought some the other day.  For the past two days I have been talking about 800mg twice a day.  And on both days I have had incidents of ed, as in I have been aroused but unable to get or keep an erection.  I'm stopping my experiment now, but I can't work out why it would do that.  The only thing I can think is that I have read it is an alpha 2 adrenergic agonist,  opposite to yohimbine.  Any thoughts?

Found this on Dr Scally''s web site.   The sooner Androxal is available the better I think. ...

Differential Effects of Isomers of Clomiphene Citrate on Reproductive Tissues in Male Mice

Fontenot GK, Wiehle RD, Podolski JS. Differential Effects of Isomers of Clomiphene Citrate on Reproductive Tissues in Male Mice. BJU Int.    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/bju.13244/abstract   OBJECTIVES: To determine in a chronic dosing study the oral toxicity potential of the test substances Enclomiphene citrate and Zuclomiphene citrate when administered to male mice by oral gavage.METHODS: A chronic dosing study was conducted utilizing test substances Enclomiphene citrate and Zuclomiphene citrate administered to male mice daily by oral gavage.Mice were divided into five treatment groups (Group I: Placebo; Group II: 40 MPK (mg/kg body weight)\day Enclomiphene citrate; Group III: 4 MPKday Enclomiphene citrate; Group IV: 40 MPKday Zuclomiphene citrate; Group V: 4 MKP/day Zuclomiphene citrate.Body weights were measured. Serum samples and tissues were obtained from each animal for analysis.RESULTS: In a chronic dose study in mice, profound effects on the Leydig cells, epididymis, seminal vesicles and kidneys were seen as well as effects on testosterone (T), follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) and luteinizing hormone (LH) secretion that were associated with zuclomiphene treatment only. Treatment with the isolated enclomiphene isomer has positive effects on testosterone production and no effects on testicular histology.CONCLUSIONS: This work suggests that un-opposed high dose of zuclomiphene can have pernicious effects on male mammalian reproductive organs. The deleterious effects seen when administering Zuclomiphene citrate in male mice justifies the case for a monoisomeric preparation and the development of Enclomiphene citrate, for clinical use in human males to increase serum levels of testosterone and maintaining sperm counts.

Just saw this on the suppversity Facebook page, could be of interest to some of you guys trying to get your estradiol levels down

Estradiol to Testosterone Ratio Changes with Long-Term Tadalafil Administration - To YOUR Advantage! In an open-label fashion, 20 patients (mean age 54.8 8.4 years) received tadalafil 1020 mg on demand for 12 months. The results indicate sustained improvements in sexual function after 12 months of tadalafil administration and a significant increase in the T:E ratio which was brought about mainly by a reduction of E levels.www.suppversity.com | Greco, E. A., Pili, M., Bruzziches, R., Corona, G., Spera, G. and Aversa, A. (2006), Testosterone:Estradiol Ratio Changes Associated with Long-Term Tadalafil Administration: A Pilot Study. Journal of Sexual Medicine, 3: 716722. doi: 10.1111/j.1743-6109.2006.00264.x

[SPLIT FROM HERE: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=7544.0.]

I think years ago, people always trained with the weights frequently.  The term 'overtraining' hadn't been invented,  so nobody overtrained!!

It's good that people know what overtraining exists.

Thirteen University of Iowa Football Players Hospitalized

In a report released Wednesday, independent experts who reviewed the Iowa case confirmed that the 13 players, all of whom recovered after several days of hospital care, became ill due to overexertion. In this type of rhabdomyolysis, muscle tissue is so overworked it breaks down and floods the bloodstream with a protein that can impair kidney function.

The report concludes that the players' illnesses were caused solely by overexertion and that neither illicit drugs nor supplements played a part in the illnesses. The players were returning from a winter break and endured an "ambitious" workout, which made created the conditions for the illness to occur.  A squat exercise was cited as the exercise that likely pushed the players' muscles over the edge. The athletic staff was not faulted for the workout regimen, but the report noted that the staff was poorly trained in understanding and preventing rhabdomyolysis.


Yup, overexerted themselves,  no surprises there!  Candidates for the Darwin Awards!!  Over training certainly exists, it's what happens to people when they don't train smart and allow adaption. As I said,  old time strongmen didn't know HIT or crossfit or 'training to failure', that's why just about everyone who lifted a barbell prior to such nonsense got strong.

Nice bit of info taken from suppversity's Facebook page some of you might find interesting.

"Nature Knows Best! Tocotrienol Rich Palm Oil Extract Is More Effective Than Pure Tocotrienols at Improving Endothelium-Dependent Relaxation in the Presence of Oxidative StressResults of recent study leave no doubt: "Tocotrienol rich tocomin is more effective than alpha-tocopherol at reducing oxidative stress and restoring endothelium-dependent relaxation in rat aortae and although alpha-, delta-, and gamma-tocotrienols effectively scavenged superoxide, they did not improve endothelial function.www.suppversity.com | Ali, Saher F., and Owen L. Woodman. "Tocotrienol Rich Palm Oil Extract Is More Effective Than Pure Tocotrienols at Improving Endothelium-Dependent Relaxation in the Presence of Oxidative Stress." Oxidative Medicine and Cellular Longevity 2015 (2015)."

Talk about jumping through hoops, I've just been to the doctors to ask for my first testosterone test since 2013. "Erm..these aren't really necessary, and you had them done before which were in range" I showed him the one at 9nmol/l -"yes, its in range". He wanted to do my blood pressure,  get cholesterol tests, but said testosterone wasn't necessary.  He is doing it, but I said "and leutenizing hormone? It means nothing without that". He looked confused,  said a specialist would maybe do that. I said "without lh, if testosterone is low but lh is high it shows primary hypogonadism". Blank stare!!!!  At least I'm getting my vit d tested I guess!!

Interesting study posted on Dr Scally's site.  Suggests the conversion of testosterone to estradiol is necessary for endogenous opioid production.


Taken from Nelson Vergel's site, a study that might encourage you married men to give her the boot, or at least find yourselves a bit on the side!

The effects of being in a "new relationship" on levels of testosterone in men.

Evol Psychol. 2015 Mar 17;13(1):250-61.The effects of being in a "new relationship" on levels of testosterone in men.Farrelly D1, Owens R2, Elliott H3, Walden H4, Wetherell M5.AbstractIn light of previous research showing that different types of relationships affect levels of testosterone in men, this study examined whether categorizing relationship types according to relationship length can shed further light on variations in levels of testosterone. Salivary testosterone samples were obtained from a sample of men and details about their relationship status, sociosexual orientation, extra-pair sexual interest, and their perceptions of their relationships were recorded. Using a median split analysis, participants who indicated that they had been in their relationship for less than 12 months were categorized as being in "new relationships" and those in longer relationships being categorized as in long-term relationships. Results showed that levels of testosterone of single men and men in new relationships did not differ, but both had significantly greater levels of testosterone than men in long-term relationships. Differences in levels of testosterone were unrelated to sociosexual orientation and extra-pair sexual interest. These findings support the evolutionary explanation of levels of testosterone in men varying in accordance with their internal motivation to seek new potential mates.

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