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Topics - davie12

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[MODERATOR SPLIT FROM HERE: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=9015.0 ]

That Epstein-Barr point you made was sort of brushed over quickly. There is a tight correlation from everything I've read between Hashimoto's/thyroid problems and EB virus. That could potentially be the entire cause of your problems.

However, you are correct in your overall point that the 3 systems have to be all working properly: thyroid, adrenals, gonadal. I've yet to see anyone post bloodwork where they had healthy natural testosterone levels with poor or mediocre thyroid and/or adrenal function. It's almost as though if one of those doesn't work, they all don't work. They all support each other.

I would pursue that EB antibody channel more if I were you.

[MODERATOR SPLIT FROM HERE: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=7775.0]

Data point of one.

My low T was caused by illness, resulting in a level of 25. That's right, near nothing. I've been living with it for a couple decades now. I've been on and off various forms of T replacement.

As I've aged, erections are less firm and less reliable. Viagra or Cialis helps immensely. I'd like to think that I don't need it, and possibly at times I don't. So, at 51 years old, I'm clearly "damaged". By what? Dunno.

Are you saying one infection of Epstein-Barr caused a host of autoimmune problems related to thyroid, etc. and caused all these endocrine problems?

[MODERATOR SPLIT FROM HERE: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=7059.15.]

Just agreeing with Helix's comments. This is really a bad idea:

Bioidentical Testestoerone to increase T - 1ml applied everyday

You're young and your T in the 500s is not that bad (as well as the free T if my calculation in American units is correct). Now you'll be shutting down that hormonal pathway in addition to the other issues you have.

You're really not that overweight at 11 stone = 154lbs. And even if you were, that alone isn't going to help with lowering estrogen from that high a number.

The problem is that Finasteride/Propecia leaves the endocrine system in a state of high Prolactin/Estrogen even after the drug is out of the system. There is research going on to figure out why. Might have something to do with alteration of the tissues/organs where the drug attaches itself to the cell receptors (ie. androgen receptors in prostate, gonads, etc)

I think Helix is spot on. Control the Prolactin, titrate the Cabergoline or Mucuna Pruriens, and as a biproduct of your treatment you may normalize the estogen, but even if you don't you can get the excessive Prolactin to a manageable level and then work on the estrogen. You really need Prolactin at like 4 or something like that. Even if it's 9, 10, 11, etc. you can have erection/sexual problems and reduced fertility.

[MODERATOR SPLIT FROM HERE: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=7201.0.]

HCG is supposed to have a refractory period as far as Leydig cell stimulation which would refute the theory that every day is a better more effective protocol. This isn't just hearsay or bro talk in a forum. There is actually a scientific paper on this. I just don't have the time to locate it and post it here right now, but I guarantee I read it a while back. I believe the refractory period was mentioned as 48 hours, so the point is that the Leydig cells would not be as effectively stimulated in less than that timeframe. Coincidentally, this 48 period is consistent with Dr Shippen's HCG dosing schedule, although he never mentioned this as being the reason.

I thought some of you might find this paper interesting. Unfortunately, I am unable to cut and paste the abstract for you, as I believe it might be rights protected. However, the layman's summary is that thyroid function is intricately tied in with testicular steroidogenesis (ie. testosterone and sperm production). It discusses that there are thyroid receptors in the testicular cells. Maybe this sheds some light on why so many posters in here with thyroid issues end up with low T issues.



I didn't know you quit HCG I don't think.  So are you on HRT or did you just go off of everything all together.

Also, I don't remember your testosterone levels, but if they are pretty low that can negatively impact the adrenals and increase "cortisol reactivity".

Never have been on HRT. Using exogenous hormones for adrenal problems is not a good strategy and a last resort according to many sources such as Dr. Lam and others. Plus, as I've mentioned in other threads, Dr. Shippen keeps the body making hormones to the extent possible. Basically, I have been using HCG and Clomid at different times over the last year and a half since all this happened to me. I'm not on anything right now except vitamins, fish oil, good diet, exercise, etc. and I'm getting morning wood 5 out of every 7 days, although libido is still very low. Also, I'm sleeping like a baby at night which is a good sign of healthy adrenal function...and I'm awake during the day. I'm not yet a success story...not back completely yet, but things are definitely moving in the right direction.

Re: the original question in this thread, however, I wanted to tell Hanz that you mentioned having a varicocele. You need to get that addressed as that alone will keep your testosterone at very low levels. And you have the typical bloodwork of someone with that problem...low T with mid-level LH and low FSH. The Clomid or HCG will only be a bandaid on that problem.

I believe what Sam says is accurate. Essentially, the use of prohormones (upstream hormones such as Pregnenolone, Progesterone, DHEA) can provide temporary relief but doesn't necessarily repair the endocrine permanently. I know you are students of the famous CDnuts protocol...using these as tools with the rest of the diet/exercise program is ideal, as you will be altering your metabolic rate which can possibly evoke a permanent change.

Davie:  What is the "famous CDNuts" protocol in a nutshell?  Sorry - can't remember...

Basically, CDnuts is the Propecia victim rock star who underwent the most well known and detailed 100% recovery ever. I believe he was mentioned in a couple of threads previously. Most of his methods are well known ways to boost testosterone and manage overall hormonal health. His diligence and "stick to it-ness" over 5 years is what makes the story so intriguing.

Essentially, he:
- Underwent 3 extensive water fasts (something like 21 days each) for cellular cleansing
- Implemented strict dietary regimen that included raw food, juicing, carb backloading, Paleo, etc
- Incorporated the usual supplements such as Vit D, fish oil, vitamins, etc.
- Used T boosting supplements in cycles such as Maca, Horny Goat Weed and others
- Trained his body physically with sprinting, weightlifting, etc...all the T boosting forms of exercise
- Did other less conventional things such as wearing a ball zinger, meditation, etc
- Underwent 3 or so prohormone cycles with DHT as the science has been supported that the presence of DHT will stimulate and create new activity of the 5AR enzymes that were damaged by Propecia
- Abstained from things such as alcohol, gluten, etc.

Essentially, most of what he did (except the DHT prohormone) is a model of what men should do to optimize their hormones.

His body recalibrated itself over 5 years, although there was a significant amount of recovery in the first part of that time frame.

One of his main points that he continually makes is that he put his body in a position to heal. Many have incorrectly interpreted the prohormone cycles as the key. However, he essentially reinvented his entire metabolism, cleaned his cells of damage and rebuilt his hormones. It is unknown whether the prohormone cycles were just an adjunct to a regimen that would've healed his body otherwise.

Most men wouldn't have the discipline to go through what he went through (especially the 21 day fasts) which is why there aren't more success stories. There is a certain character/personality that someone has to have to go through this...probably the same kind of diligence that someone needs to complete a marathon, write a novel, start a business, become a Navy SEAL...you know what I mean.


Ideally a man wants numbers:(order of importance)
A healthy man has
1. BMI <25 and/or a body fat <15%
2. Fasting glucose <100 (RECENT ARTICLE BY LEF NOW RECOMMENDS <85)
3. Low Inflammation( hsCRP<1
4.Lipids(total cholesterol) total cholesterol <150,
           LDL < 60
           HDL > 60
           Triglycerides < 60

5. Thyroid(TSH) 3-5   (I BELIEVE YOU MEAN 1-2)
6. Vitamin D(measuring 25(OH)D or serum 25-hyroxyvitamin D)  <15ng/ml-43(shoot for 40+)
7. Prolactin: less than 12 ng/m-15
8.Estradiol: 20 and 30 pg/mL of blood
9. Nitric Oxide(I don't know, I think you use strips, but I dont know whats good)
10.. Cortisol(I couldnt find an ideal number) http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Cortisol_Men
11.Total testosterone +Free testosterone: Total >700 and Free about 2%
12. T/E ratio T/E ratio 30-50

bzarfas: Just a couple of points above (in CAPS) that might help.

Sorry, maybe this is a new thread but I always find this interesting. Guys with hormone problems seem to complain of 3 body types that they have trouble changing until the hormones are normalized:

1) The skinny bastard syndrome: As in this thread and others...ie. male the stripper from Vegas in another thread who couldn't gain weight, etc.

2) Guys who are relatively normal weight but can't get rid of waistline/abdominal fat...even with exercise. Even guys with muscle in this boat say they can't get rid of certain fat and can't get that "cut" look.

3) Fat bastards...guys whose metabolism has slowed down and can't lose weight anywhere.

[MODERATOR's UPDATE:  I split this out from this thread: https://www.peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=2965.0]

I've heard of this before, but I believe Triptorelin is expensive. Re: restarts, I don't think they're quite as unsuccessful as you think. I remember hearing Dr Shippen say he's used Clomid to restart endurance athletes (ie. marathoners who hammered their hormone levels). Part of the issue with discussing restarts...are we just talking about steroid users or others who fall into a number of miscellaneous categories (ie. opiate users/endocrine disruptors, adrenal stress patients, illegal drug users?) It's probably case by case and the success depends on how extensive the damage is and how long someone used a particular substance. Wasn't there a guy who came onto this site who said he was a fitness model and used 'roids for a dozen years and he appeared to have some success in rebuilding his hormone levels.
I don't doubt that restarts work but risking permanent vision damage is my biggest concern with clomid/nolvadex. My eyesight isn't the best as it is, I've had laser eye surgery, so don't want to mess it up again.

Second - not due to steroid use, no drug use (legal or illegal), healthy bodyfat %, lift weights, decent diet, bloods don't show anything out of the ordinary other than subclinical hypothyroid TSH reading, high cortisol, normal ACTH, low LH and FSH, basically no known cause for the low T.

You may have answered your own question. High cortisol for extended periods causes the body to go into a catabolic state (ie. systems such as reproduction, digestion, etc. get slowed down). Thus, LH and testosterone would suffer in this situation. Re: your thyroid, Free T3 is probably the most important measure, as TSH is misleading. TSH is basically the equivalent of LH, except for the thyroid axis. If TSH is slightly high but FT3 & FT4 look good, there might be less to worry about. (Similar to the way one may have higher LH but if testosterone is at a good level, there is less cause for concern.)

[MODERATOR UPDATE:  Split out from this thread: https://www.peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=2680.0]


Yes, I just finished listening to the interview with John Keifer on SHR that was referenced by one of the posters and I really recommend listening to it if you haven't already. He designed it for athletic reasons but having been on that approach for a while, I can say that at least for me, the increase in energy level (which I attribute to 20-22 hours per day of low insulin) is truly life changing. And I don't see how any other intervention can work without high energy...i.e. it's tough to do HIIT or anything else if one is lethargic...interestingly, I now also don't notice an energy drop after the high carb meals at night, although I initially did...here's the link again...


Hi Festus...thanks for posting that link. I had a 220 mile drive ahead of me over the weekend, so I downloaded the mp3 file into my iPhone and was able to listen to it while I was driving. Absolutely fascinating. I was actually thinking of skipping the 1st hour to get directly to the carb backloading segment, but I found the Dr Gervon segment on the Tsism tribe in South America just as interesting. What I particularly found intriguing was the point Dr Gervon made at the end about testing they did on their cardiovascular health. Even though this group of indigenous natives lived more like pre-industrial revolution North Americans, they had high inflammation (ie. elevated CRP), and both low LDL and HDL. They almost never died of heart disease, although their life expectancy was significantly shorter, but the cause of death was usually parasitic infection (mostly which would be cured by modern day processes such as pasteurization and overall sterilization/sanitary processes in cooking, etc.) The doctor basically concluded that more research was necessary, but it lends credibility that there might be more to heart disease than just those measures that we see in bloodwork. The carb backloading segment got pretty technical and they went pretty deep into the science. I'm going to listen to that again and maybe that should be the source of a new discussion thread.

Testosterone, Hormones and General Men's Health / Healthy Ranges for DHEA
« on: November 12, 2013, 01:17:35 am »
Thanks davie12 for the info!!

Any idea where we can find what is considered "healthy ranges" for hormones?

Which test are you using to measure your Cortisol ??

dwilcox: Look at these websites and you'll see what I mean about healthy ranges.


Re: cortisol, so far I've gotten the single reading test 2 times. I was told by my doc (Dr Shippen) to eventually get the Rhein Labs 24 urine test, but I've been waiting for some time for my endocrine system to naturally improve and heal. You can get the Labcorp 24 cortisol test (I believe it's saliva). I once contacted them and once you pay for it, they send you the containers and then you get it to a Labcorp facility for testing. The cortisol problem might be speculation. It's unclear if you have that problem. The insomnia might have to be more severe than you mention (ie. waking up in the middle of the night with an erection and not being able to get back to sleep). You might just be a light sleeper. For example, in my case, I would literally pull all nighters day after day. I've never been through such torture. I'm far better now.

Came across this workout when I was scanning the Yahoo news:


This looks like a tremendous HIIT workout! I have trouble myself when going over 10 on the treadmill and this guy is doing 13.5 for 30 second intervals. Of course, though, I am not a professional athlete!

I really liked this overall fitness test that I found in Men's Health:


Just wondering what others think?

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