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Topics - Flyingfool

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1
Testosterone, Hormones and General Men's Health / Prolactin
« on: December 30, 2018, 12:53:10 pm »
I guess I am too lazy to go on an endleaa Internet search. So I was wondering if someone could give a short course prolactin for dummies post.

What is it?
What does it do?
What level or range is optimal
What happens whe it is too high?
What happens if it is too low?
How does it affect T and other hormones?
Is there a relationship between Prolactin and cortisol
Other facts etc

Thanks

2
Recently came across an article that suggested that stinging nettle root supplement can help lower SHBG and this increase free T.

Has anyone actually have success with this supplement?  If so what level of change did you experience?

I am NOT currently on TRT, and I am Wondering with my levels (as reported below in signature footer) if this supplement could offer just enough bump to get may free T into an area that would minimize the relatively mild low T symptoms I have.  Say raise calc free T from about 10 to say 12 or even 15.

What say you folks?

3


Some intital data:  Female, age 48 (in January she will be 49), perimenopause. Not physically active and is 5-4 and of 200 lbs.  Total T of 53 (2-45) and serum Free T of 4.3 (0.2-5)

Since there is no real place for women’s issue with Low T, I thought I would create this thread to document my wife’s journey with low T.

A brief history.  She has had a LONG journey with getting her Thyroid treated properly.  MANY years and several Doctors and she is finally pretty much optimized.  But even with this optimized, she still had many symptoms and lack of libido.  We had hoped these would be all remedied by her low thyroid.

When several symptoms remained, I started doing on-line research as to what that may be from.  She had her sex hormones tested as early as mid-July 2014.  And she had unmeasurable level of Testosterone (less than 20).  Several additional tests I think up to 3 over the following years also ALL showed her to have unmeasurable level of T.  Despite my continued pleas for her and her DR to do something about that.  Nothing was done.

When her thyroid was clearly about optimized, and the symptoms remained, we FINALLY convinced the Dr to do something about the T-Levels.  I believe this doctor has treated several men with low T, but I do not think he treated a single female.  So my wife may likely be one of the first, if not THE first.

As a result, he started VERY cautiously. He prescribed a compounded T cream at a very low dosage.  I can’t remember it was something like 0.5 or 1 Mcg per day.

Each successive test resulted in still zero measurable T level. Which corresponded to two or 3 increases in dosage of the T-Cream.

At this time we investigated going to see a true female hormone specialist.  The firm is Biobalance health based in St. Louis and Kansas City.  Watched a TON of healthcast videos, bought the doctors book (The Secret Female Hormone) by Kathy Maupin and Bret Newcomb.  I would HIGHLY recommend both the book and the archive of over 400 half hour video healthcast.  These cover both men and women’s health issues, mostly around hormones, but also other general health issues.

This investigation led to us setting up an appointment for my wife at Biobalance in St. Louis as it is “only” about 350 miles from us.  But she continued to use the T-cream.

I started seeing or noticing my wife losing weight with the T-cream.  In fact I noticed this before my wife did.  And she “wrote it off” as just normal weight fluctuation.  But I kept asking and eventually she did indicate that she was losing.

In prep for her biobalance appointment, the clinic required a significant battery of blood labs and ultrasounds etc.  A detailed health history survey etc.  Very though.

Part of the blood work of course retested for sex hormones.  And her T level FINALLY registered.  Total T was now above the range, but her free T was still only 4.3.  Yet at this point she had lost 14 lbs (she started out and was overweight/obese at over 200 lbs).  Still even with this low amount of T, and little to no change in lifestyle changes, she lost 14 Lbs (about 7% of her body weight)

Biobalance:

Her appointment was just yesterday 10/29/18

The appointment was outstanding.  The doctor took OVER an  hour with BOTH of us.  The Dr talks with and went over and confirmed symptoms and history.  The Doctor went over every blood test result. What was good, what was bad, where it “should” be and how they can help her get to that point.  They provided recommendations and why those recommendations were made, what they would expect to see as a result and how everything would progress.  This not only discussed the Sex hormones, but overall health. Diet, exercise. Changes to supplements, which supplements to stop, which to add, and which to change dosage etc.  Recommended books to read and specific supplements brands that they have had good luck with and having science to back up the quality and consistency, as the unregulated area of supplements means that some are great, and other brands not so much.  So that was great.

The result was that my wife was insulin resistant.  Her being overweight contributed to this as well as other things, Her blood sugar is also on the higher side etc.  This resulted in recommendation of Metformin prescription.  This should help the insulin resistance, along with the changes in diet and exercise program as well as getting Testosterone all should help her lose weight.  The Dr believes that Metformin may only be needed for a fairly short time, as once she loses weight and changes life styles her insulin resistance should reduce.  But this will be monitored.  But the goal is to eliminate this over time in maybe 6 months or so.

Wife also had bad liver enzymes and early indication of liver disease.  They also felt that fatty liver was probably the issue and again the loss of weight and visceral fat may get these back in line over time.

She was given Testosterone pellets along with Airimidex.  Unlike men, controlling estrogen is easier and more straight forward then men. Which is almost always recommended to NOT add an AI until you prove you need it.  Estrogen control is a bit easier in women it would seem.  There is more “margin for error” as women have so much more estrogen.  Also the idea along with DIM was prescribed to help change the estrogen from Estrone (E1), to more estradiol (E2).

The experience is that FREE T is really the only thing they concentrate on.  And the range they use for women to feel well is to have the free Testosterone to be I think 15 to 25.  My wife is only at 4.3,  So they want to at least more than TRIPLE her T level.

My wife has NEVER, EVER had a libido.  And the reports are that usually about 2 weeks after getting pellets, the women will go through a “honeymoon period”.  This is due to the testosterone receptors having been starved of T when suddenly getting testosterone, they women will be EXTREMELY horny. This is a one time event. Not every woman experiences it, but most do. This honeymoon period is pretty short lived lasting only a few days!

I CANNOT WAIT for this time.  IF it happens.  I am a bit dubious that it will happen due to the fact that my wife so slowly built up some Testosterone with the T-Cream that her receptors will have had a chance to adjust and she wo n’t experience this phase.  I pray this is not true.  After 28+ years of marriage to a wife with zero libido I have always hoped and prayed for a wife who would be interested and passionate about sex!  Time will tell. My wife just cannot believe this will happen to her, because in her own words “This is soooo much NOT like “me, that I just can’t see myself being like that.”

My wife is super excited. She cannot wait for “the new her” to come alive. She also cannot imagine herself 40 lbs lighter as she has ALWAYS, ALWAYS struggled with her weight. And no matter how hard she worked or changed diet etc it always resulted in nothing!  So to believe that she has a means to actually have her body work and lose weight given diet and exercise and medicine etc has her extremely excited.  She also is looking forward to better mood, better health and immunity etc. She just cannot imagine herself healthy and happy. Something she also has struggled with her whole life.

I can’t think of anything else at the moment to add. But I wanted to have a place to document her journey. And maybe some of you men out there have a wife that similarly has, or you suspect has a low T problem, but the Doctors won’t do a dang thing about it!  or eve test for testosterone in women!  I hope this will document a success story that other can use to inspire their wives to become their own best advocate and seek treatment.

Ultimately, I would love to have this forum set up a separate folder for female low T issues.  As I think it is extremely important issue that is TOTALLY under diagnosed.  There are a LOT of women, and marriages that are suffering as a result of this relatively easy and treatable situation.

So in brief summary:

Pellets inserted 10/29/18

Continue T cream for 2 weeks while pellets start to dissolve and get into blood stream.  Stop T-Cream after 2 weeks!

Start DIM – Cannot remember the dosage, I will come back and update

Start Metformin – (10/30/18)  I will have to get dosage

Start walking/exercising regularly (wife has bad knee so running/biking is OUT)

Eliminate sugar.  Sugar fast and detox for 10 days, minimize carbs.  Eat fresh. Diet similar to Whole30 or Paleo/Meditranian diet.

4
Testosterone, Hormones and General Men's Health / What to do?
« on: September 24, 2018, 10:00:08 am »
Not sure what to do, if anything.
 
My T levels have I would describe as “marginal”.  Not good, yet not bad and I seem to be “getting by”.  My symptoms are relatively mild. But I have trouble with some fatigue and inability to really put on muscle even with swimming 3x per week and Tea Kwon Do 2x a week.  Also, trouble losing the last nagging 10 lbs or so to get be in the top of the “normal” weight range.  Sexually, no “failure to perform”, but it takes a little longer and not as firm to get an erection.  Sensitivity seems less than when I was younger.

Now for the lab results.  I will have to run these over a longer time so you can see the changes.

One thing I wondered about and I don’t know why I didn’t think about this before. But on the most recent blood lab 9/19/18 (by quest labs – notice different reference range from previous!), I was fasting (to get Cholesterol which also was disappointing results-high total, low HDL, high LDL & High Triglycerides)), I wanted to note that I did have sexual activity the night before.  Blood was drawn about 7:30 AM the following morning.  How much impact would having had an orgasm less than 12 hours prior have on total T and the other items?

I believe all E2 tests are serum direct.  “they” tell me the sensitive MS E2 test is not available.  Not sure if free T are calculated or not. As calculator seems to have a similar result, on all but the most recent test.  I have tested twice for Albumin both results were = 4.7 over this time period.

Percentages listed after the range is calculated percentage of the reference range
 
Blood test date: 12/16/16
Total = 398 (220-813) 48.5%
Free T= 8.58 ng/dL (5.6-21) 19.4%
SHBG= 30 (10-57) 42.6%
Bio-avail= 201 (131-682) 12.7%
DHEA = 215 (106-454) 31.3%
Estradiol = 29 (0-56) 51.8%
-----------------------------------------
Blood test date: 10/3/17
Total = 461 (220-813) 59.9%
Free T= 9.33 (5.6-21) 24.2%
SHBG= 34.6 (10-57) 52.3%
Bio-avail= 219 (131-682) 16.0%
DHEA = 256 (62-1,636) 12.4%
Estradiol = 37 (0-56) 66.1%
-----------------------------------------
Blood test date: 2/14/18 – Boron (can’t remember dosage Mg) for 12weeks
Total = 370 (220-813) 43.4%
Free T= 7.74 (5.6-21) 13.9%
SHBG= 31.1 (10.0-57.0) 44.9%
Bio-avail= 181 (131-682) 9.1%
DHES =231 (38-313) 45.5%
Estradiol = 41 (0-56) 73.2%
-----------------------------------------
Blood tested 6/26/18 – DIM 100Mg 9 weeks
Total = 438 (220-813) 55.7%
Free T= 7.47 (5.6-21) 12.1%
SHBG= 44.6 (10.0-57.0) 73.6%
Bio-avail= 175 (131-682) 8.0%
DHES =not tested %
Estradiol = 30 (0-56) 53.6%
-----------------------------------------
Blood tested 9/19/18 – DIM 200 mg 12 weeks
Total = 580 (250-827) 59.9%
Albumin – 4.7
Free T= 68.7 pg/dL (46-224) 12.8% - Assume = 6.87 ng/dL  Calculated Free T=10.8 ng/dL
SHBG= 39 (10.0-50.0) 72.5%
Bio-avail= 147.2 (110-575) 8.0%
DHES =not tested %
Estradiol = 22 (<39) 53.6%
-----------------------------------------
It appears that DIM has definitely reduced E2, However, it appears to also increase SHBG and thus even with increased total T, the Free T has remained relatively unchanged.

How does one lower SHBG other than going on Testosterone replacement?  Things I googled, I am doing all of those already. Including Boron which as noted above had extremely small impact on SHBG.  Also, other research seems to say that even if SHBG reduces, the pituitary senses and slows T production so again get back to no-gain long term.  Arrrrgh!

I believe I may continue on the 200mg of DIM, and add Berberine, which is supposed to help lower my cholesterol and also help glucose levels (mine are towards the top of the range (105 with top of range 110).  So I am trying to cut down on Carbs and sugar which I don’t eat a lot of sugar/sweets anyhow.
 
I would like to not start T-Replacement until symptoms are worse or I can’t keep up with my wife in bed!

What sort of testosterone boost would be anticipated with starting to lift weights?  I suspect it would be less than 100 points total T.  Or is my assumption low/wrong?
Any thoughts?  Advice?

5
Testosterone, Hormones and General Men's Health / AI only?
« on: July 06, 2018, 01:32:33 pm »
Just wondered if anyone has done or what would be a good candidate (if one even exists) for AI mono therapy?

If estradiol is high? Could AI only work to cause an increase in free T and thus eliminate or reduce symptoms of low T?

Please see my lab levels below.

I have mild symptoms and wondered if I could lower Estradiol to say 20, if that is all I would need.

FYI. I lowered estradiol from 41 to 30 taking DIM 100mg. I only recently started taking 200mg (100mg twice a day) and will re-rest in 6-8 weeks.

The DIM however raised total t but also SHBG so that my free T remained essentially unchanged (actually free T decreased 1%)

6
Well my results of being on 100 mg of DIM for about 9 weeks.
 
Anecdotally/clinically I feel a bit better.  I have lost a couple of pounds and I seem to be gaining some muscle tone.  So, I seemed to have put on a bit of muscle without really changing my exercise workout.  I may be sleeping a bit better.  Still I burn out working on home improvement project so I get fatigued.
 
The previous test was dated 2/14/18 (see my footer for orher info) and my current levels as of today 6/26/18
 
Nearly 52 years old
Total T increased from 370 to 438  ng/dL– this is an increase in the range of 12%
 
Free T decreased probably within margin of error from 7.74 to 7.47 ng/dL – is a decrease of about 1% of the range
 
Bioavail decreased from 181 to 175 ng/dL – is a decrease of about 1%
 
SHBG increased from 31.1 to 44.6 nmol/L – which is about 29% increase within the range – currently at 73.6% of the range
 
Estradiol decreased from 41 to 30 which is a 20% drop in the range – currently 53.6% of the range
 
My Total T:E2 ratio increased from 9 to 14.6
The Free T:E2 ratio increased from 0.189 to 0.249
 
So, it seems like the DIM was a little bit effective.  I feel a bit better.  It appears that it definitely lowered my E2 levels, but increased my SHBG so that my free T actually had no change,  or even slid backwards a little bit.  But the drop in E2 probably is the reason I feel better as indicated by the FreeT to E2 ratio increase.
 
Anyone else have thoughts?
 
Should I continue DIM? Or maybe try increasing dosage?  Or is this all pointless since it appears that all the gain I had was primarily negated by the increase in SHBG?
 
Is there a way to naturally, or by supplement to lower SHBG?
 

7
Is there a place or a post or sticky that is a tutorial of such for education on this forum?  If there is, I missed it I guess

I’m thinking of a document that described each of the hormones or chemicals are, what they do, and what is the generally aaccepted wellness range that most men f eel well. Also things like various treatmwnts and chemicals and protocols and the relative success of each. And maybe a section for what set of blood labs or circumstances that one may want to try a certain monotherapy or things to watch out for etc.

This doesn’t have to be extensive. But just a place where maybe a 5,000 foot overview can be acbieved. Rather than the too general 30,000’ view which doesn’t get deep enough to really glean the complexity, yet not so deep into the weeds of special or rare or difficult cases.

I think this would be great “male low t 101” so to speak

What tests are recommended, why and what are their strengths and weaknesses.

Total T
Free T measured
Free T calculated
SHBG
Estrone
Estradiol (E2)
DHEA
DHES
DHT
LH
FSH

Others

Different types of testosterone treatment
Injections
Gels
Creams
Pellets

Drugs:
Clomid
HCG
Different T injections drugs and esters
Arimidex

May also want to create similar tutorial for Thyroid

I guess a cliff notes version so a newbie can get a pretty substantial foindation and a simgle reference to use. It would save a lot of repeat questions and a LOT of reading individual posts to obtain the same level and depth of knowledge.

Hell i bet a lot of Primary care Dr’s, and even Endo’s, would learn a great deal from
Such a tutorial!

8
There is a lot of super information on this site. Regarding replacement and protocols etc.  priceless information really.
 
However…
 
I was wondering why there seems to be such an explosion of men “needing” replacement at all!  Has anyone, or is there on-going efforts to determine why men with Low T are becoming almost epidemic?
 
My concern is that there is also a corresponding loss of birth rate/fertility in almost all “western” culture and countries.
 
The testosterone levels in men are significantly lower than the same age men compared to say 1950 or so.  WHY?
 
I believe part of it is related to the loss of physical labor in the industrial age, and the corporate and now information age.  That we are less physically active and sedentary.  However, I do not buy that this is the only factor.  As many folks have taken up workouts and exercise programs, yet they too still suffer from Low T.  And this is also not a phenomenon only related to men.  The epidemic is also in the female population.  With women however, they mainly suffer in silence and frankly ignorance since women are not generally or regularly tested for testosterone levels. And if they are, they are often ignored.
 
I’m sure obesity is a factor as well, But I wonder if this is a chicken and egg scenario.  That is obesity often has men have higher E2 and lower T. But is the low T the result of the obesity, OR is the obesity the result of low T?  Which is cause, which is effect?  Probably too simplistic.  But really one has to wonder.
 
It seems to me that there is SOMETHING, or more likely a combination of things that are stacking the deck/domino’s in a way that results in population wide Testosterone and other hormone imbalances.  Something cultural/environmental. And it seems focused on the “Western civilization”.  Which suggests lifestyle and food and other environmental (chemical exposure-flame retardants, PBA’s, pesticides, glyphosate, EMF, pollution etc).
 
It is almost impossible to avoid some chemical exposure. Fire retardants in particular. They are on every mattress, pillow, sheet, carpet and furniture.  I’m not sure that it is even legal to sell a mattress or furniture WITHOUT these endocrine disrupting fire retardants!  Glyphosate (Round up) due to genetically modified foods is found in almost everyone.  BPA’s even if you avoid them buying plastic water bottle etc, they are loaded on almost every single cash register receipt, and lined in almost every canned food.
 
I really think a large factor is related to our food supply.  We are always told and it simply makes sense that “we are what we eat”.  And we are eating like crap, and even what we think is healthy food, turns out to be “fake”, Franken food that his genetically altered and our body has no clue what to do with this fake food?  How can’t his be “proven” I don’t know.
 
The fact that the hormone imbalance does NOT affect people to the same extent in non-Western culture, is I think important.
 
Combine this with the fact that because the population is shifting to lower T levels, the entire bell or “normal” statistical distribution that creates the reference range, is also shifting to the left (lower).  We are NOT being compared to healthy or optimized levels, rather we care compare to today’s altered lower T level to be considered “normal” or not.
 
Why when it comes to osteoporosis?  Are women bone density etc compared to a 29-year old healthy women?  It makes sense to use the standard of health and optimized condition to be a healthy person in their prime?  Why then do we only (At best) age correlate when it comes to other blood labs, sex hormones in particular to our age peer?  Why would we not compare to the healthy prime of life status?  Similar to what they do for women and bone density related to osteoporosis.
 
I always need to remind myself, that pharmaceutical companies only make money off sick people.  So, I’m not convinced that they have a monetary incentive to find the source of the problem, rather than selling drug after drug after drug to “treat” the resulting symptoms (and resulting side effects) of sick people!
 
Sorry for the rambling, but I am REALLY curious if in fact there is active and on-going studies to try to get to the CAUSE of the widespread low T?  I am thankful that testosterone and hormone replacement is pharmaceutically available. But I think we can all agree it would be FAR better to stop the plague of low T at its source/cause, rather than just fix the resulting low T with medicine(s).
 
 

9
I was wondering if there is any connection between men who have had a vasectomy and them having low Testosterone later in life?

I am wondering if getting the tibes snipped somehow decreases thw ability of the testicles to get testosterone into the bloodstream?

10
Testosterone, Hormones and General Men's Health / Clomid vs. HCG
« on: May 13, 2018, 05:36:37 am »
Last labs in my footer.

What exactly does Clomid and HCG do?

I am just curious given those lab values, would clomid make sense?  Or would simply adding HCG to try to get my testicles to produce more T make sense? Or a combination of both?

I am 51 and 5’-7” and 165 lbs. exercise regularly, swim 1 mile 3 days a week and try to make martial arts classes twice a week. No weight lifting, and really dislike weight lifting so doubt I would start a lifting program.

11
Testosterone, Hormones and General Men's Health / SHBG question
« on: May 08, 2018, 09:02:34 am »
Does SBHG simply or only bind up testosterone and never give it up?  Or does SBHG capture some T and then hold onto the T and transport the T throughout the bloodstream and then release or “give up” the bound T when needed at the cellular level?

In other words, is SHBG only a “bad” thing, or is it needed to help deliver the T to where it is needed where the rubber meets the road so to speak?

12
My wife has T levels so low they do not record a level. Simply stating on the lab report that it is less than the bottom of the range (total T). In her case it is reported as < 20 I believe ng/Dl with a range of (20-73)

This has been her results going back as far as July 2014.

Recently her Primary care doctor put her on a T cream. 0.5 mg per day. She has been on it  since mid January.  She recently had blood drawn a few days ago and the result showed still recorded as essentially unmeasurable as <20.

No big surprise that my wife has always had ZERO libido causing much marital stress for the 28 years we have been together!

Been doing more research to the extent that we can. And I’m wondering if there is a similar forum to this one but dedicated to women’s hormone and lack of testosterone.

After all these decades, I think my wife has finally “heard” my constant badgering about the need to get her hormones figured out to have her feel better. She has always dismissed my efforts with her thinking it was “all about sex”. But she is finally learning about her symptoms and other quality of life and health issues and she is sick and tired of being sick and tired.

After last weeks ood resumt, he has doubled the dosage of the T cream. Now will be 1 mg per day. (Up from 0.5mg).

BTW: wife also has low thyroid and we have after years and years FINALLY gotten to what appears to optimized dose. And she still has lingering symtoms. Which is why her doctor finally realized and reluctantly agreed to Rx testosterone cream.

Research so far for her might be pellets. But want to learn more. It is clear she will soon need to see another doctor as her primary care Dr has never even heard of pellets and is not familiar with treating women for low T. He does treat men more often. But my wofe may be the forst woman he is attempting to treat. We are glad he is doing something. But we are not too confident that the cream is the right solution or that the dose is so low as to be worthless. I understand working up slowly is in concept the right practice especially for women. But....

We nust want to learn more.

13
I have been testing for a couple years lower T levels but not horrible.

I dont notice severe symptoms and frankly having lower T my sex drive better matches my wifes. I am a little fatigued but have no sexual failure to perform.  For decades I have had a raging sex drive and it was a curse. As my wife has low sex drive. I have no strong desire to go back to that hell.

Are there other long term health effects of nust remaining with low T?

I am 51 years old, 5-7 and 165 lbs. I swim 3 days a week 1 mile/ session and go to Marrial arts twice a week (45 min workout).

2/14/18 labs were:
Total T = 370 normal range (220-813) 43.4% of the normal range

Free T= 7.74 (5.6-21) 13.9%

SHBG= 31.1 (10.0-57.0) 44.9%

Bio-avail= 181 (131-682) 9.1%

DHES =231 (38-313) 45.5%

Estradiol = 41 (0-56) 73.2%

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