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Messages - averagestudent

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Hey Gef, keep up on the journaling! Would be curious to see how things are progressing. I will agree less is more with Enclomiphene. I went with 12.5 EOD and I was doing pretty good however due to wanting to try a high dose and thinking my libido might slowly be dropping I went to ED. However, I did have very good libido for a month or 2 but now it seems I'm back to square one and moving back to 12.5mg EOD. But I also want to say, it really does seem like estrogen could be at play based on your lab work, I think that is the issue with me which is why I am dropping back to EOD. Why not trial an AI to see how things turn out? If that is the case, you might get some assurance that reducing your dose would help.

However, since you seem to be seeing results with less frequent dosing, that might not matter.

Sorry been a bit of a busy week.

But right now it seems the side effects are tampering somewhat. However it does seem the libido is a bit hit or miss. But that could also be from stress.

As far as taking things beforehand. I have not. I can probably explain the high hematocrit as being lack of hydration. However the Estrogen level was a bit odd. Maybe there could have been an error in the reporting. I do have an appointment with my doctor on Thursday so I will be sure to report what comes out of that. Maybe another blood test will be needed.

Hello I'm week 2 on enclomiphene and I have been experiencing some weird and concerning things. I did mention this to Defy but after 2 days I'm still not hearing back from them.

Currently my libido is low and ED fluxuates from time to time, my depression has been high and while I also have general anxiety I oddly have no social anxiety. I also seem to bruise easily.  I find it quite odd that I have been getting these symptoms within 1 week into my treatment. Even more strange was that when I had my physical 4 days into my enclomiphene (12.5mg EOD) I had high hematocrit and red blood cell count (labs below). I was shocked that in 4 days of treatment I'm already getting high blood levels.

I do not know what to make of this. Is it normal to react this way to an increase in testosterone this early in treatment? 5 years ago I was on clomid for 2 months and despite having higher testosterone levels on clomid, I never had an issue with hematocrit.

Here is a timeline of how things went.

1/14 - started Enclomiphene 12.5mg EOD

1/19 - Talked to Nurse with Defy. Recommended I take AI with DIM. I hed off on doing so until my physical.

1/20 - Had yearly physical results were as follows
RBC -  5.86x10E6/ul (5.8 is upper limit)
Hemoglobin - 16.7 g/dl (17.7 upper limit)
Hematocrit  - 52.8%
Estradiol - too low to measure (<5.0) (crashed)
Testosterone - 561 ng/dL
Free T - 20.8 pg/mL
Blood Pressure - 102/80 mmHg

1/21 - started .125 Anastrozole 1 per week and DIM 200mg ED

1/25 I received my blood work from my physical from 1/20.

Essentially in a matter of 4 days, Enclomiphene crashed my estrogen and I definitely made it worse by jumping on an AI. I'm dropping all medication until Defy responds to me. However given that it has been 2 days, I plan to call them.

I'm also a little concerned here. If enclomiphene is already raising my hematocrit levels do you think going on injections will make things even worse? No amount of blood donation will help here if my blood is increasing this quickly. I feel even with daily injections will raise things just based on the results I have had so far.

Hey guys, it has been a while since I last posted and figured I would give a bit of a status update.

I don't feel like the news I have will be all that promising.I had a date recently and got friendzoned, which got me all hyped up about TRT. But then I hit rock bottom when I reached out to Dr. Google and hearing about people going on TRT with no improvement in libido years into their treatment as well as those who cannot get off the stuff. Still terrifies me that I could be on TRT and have my libido worse than it already is.

I went ahead and working on my stress levels with moderate success before getting on with a naturopathic doctor. 

Upon working with the Naturopath, I found my Vitamin C, a-Lipoic Acid, B3, B6 nad Glutathione levels were below normal range. I know those don't cause lower T but I suspect they could be impacting my libido. I also had a saliva test and found while my cortisol levels were normal, my DHEA was below normal range at 2ng/ml. A little contradicting since my blood test in July came out with normal DHEA. With that said, I'm prescribed enough supplements to make a meal out of them.

In addition, I also started crossfit in an attempt to build more musscle and help with the stress.

As far as results so far things seem promising. I seem to be getting good errections every day though I don't always seem able to stand at attention for long periods. I'm going to start using porn every other day to see if I observe any improvements. Libido on the other hand is still low and I hardly climax. With that siad I feel a bit disappointed and somewhat not too hopeful I can turn things around naturally. However, I just started on the protocol last week so it might be too early to tell at the moment.

I'm still very nervous about going into TRT given that my symptoms are so borderline. I feel like if I try going natural I might become somewhat normal. But if I go on TRT there is a slight chance I'll be worse than when I started with probably no hope of getting off. I feal like treating TRT like stocks, only put in what your willing to lose. I suppose if things don't work out I guess, I'll have to find a way to bite the bullet, go on Clomid until it shoots up my E2 (which it has done in the past) then eventually be at the fate of injections for the rest of my life.

Enough of my pity party. Enclomiphene sounds like a good option and Defy should be open with providing that to me.

And CanadianChris, thank you for the uplifting message. If I do go on, I really hope it does helped my as much as it helped you. I feel like the lack of sex drive sucks and is certainly possible I have had these issues well before 25 when I was tested. I'm shocked I even managed to have sex in the past. And I agree, my numbers are low. I suppose I have some ounce of hope that I can turn things around. Maybe I just need to make sure I try all avenues before I take the plunge. I really feel like I need to make sure trt is the only option if I take it. If it goes bad, I can at least say I tried every avenue.

Yah, that might be a good idea to check my thyroid. However, I'm concerned that there might not be much I can do and I might need to start this treatment.

However, I have not taken any of my medication as of yet. It has been about 1.5 weeks since I injected HCG and TRT and I think my libido has fluctuated between good and bad. It is probably a good idea to manage my depression and anxiety as this could be at play here.

I have also been considering Clomid. However when I took it in the past, I was on 25mg daily. It put my T levels at almost 800 but it also shot my Estradiol up to 80 pg/ml. This terrifies me as that would mean I have to get on an AI. However my readings about AI has been just as scary. I found that while high Estradiol increases heart issues so does the AI. I feel like taking TRT no matter what I do is going to send me to an early grave. Is it possible to manage the Estrogen without an AI when getting into TRT?

I actually did not try a thyroid panel but I can certainly try and get one when I plan on doing another test. Do you think I could get a better story on what is going on with me? My results all seem to look fine based on my last test. Also, below is my testing with my results in bold. What do you guys think?

But I agree, I do wish I got my initial results when I was younger. Fortunately, I'm hopeful I can at least feel normal. I was listening to a video posted at the top of this forum messages at the top of the forum about misconceptions with the dangers of TRT. The doctor on there made a good point. Levels do not tell the whole picture. In one part he said some people feel fine with T levels at my range and many do not. It is ultimately down to our DNA to determine that. Sounded a bit hopeful because I hear so often that you need to be at this level to be fine. But then again, I suppose I could be in complete disillusion as well.

WBC 5.9 3.4-10.8L
RBC 5.55 4.14-5.80L
Hemoglobin 16.4 g/dL 13.0-17.7
Hematocrit 48.1 % 37.5-51.0
MCV 87 fL 79-97
MCH 29.5 pg 26.6-33.0
MCHC 34.1 g/dL 31.5-35.7
RDW 12.4 % 11.6-15.4
Platelets  302x10E3/uL 150-450
Neutrophils 62 %
Lymphs 25 %
Monocytes 7 %
Eos 5 %
Basos 1 %
Neutrophils (Absolute) 3.6x10E3/uL 1.4-7.0
Lymphs (Absolute) 1.5x10E3/uL 0.7-3.1
Monocytes(Absolute) 0.4x10E3/uL 0.1-0.9
Eos (Absolute) 0.3x10E3/uL 0.0-0.4
Baso (Absolute) 0.1x10E3/uL 0.0-0.2
Immature Granulocytes 0 %
Immature Grans (Abs) 0.0x10E3/uL 0.0-0.1

Comp. Metabolic Panel (14) [Final]
Glucose 99 mg/dL 65-99
BUN 17 mg/dL 6-20
Creatinine 1.03 mg/dL 0.76-1.27
BUN/Creatinine Ratio 17 9-20
Sodium 140 mmol/L 134-144
Potassium 4.6 mmol/L 3.5-5.2
Chloride 101 mmol/L 96-106
Carbon Dioxide, Total 24 mmol/L 20-29
Calcium 10.1 mg/dL 8.7-10.2
Protein, Total 7.3 g/dL 6.0-8.5
Albumin 5.2 g/dL 4.1-5.2

Comp. Metabolic Panel (14) [Final]
Globulin, Total 2.1 g/dL 1.5-4.5
A/G Ratio 2.5 H 1.2-2.2
Bilirubin, Total 1.2 mg/dL 0.0-1.2
Alkaline Phosphatase 81 IU/L 39-117
AST (SGOT) 22 IU/L 0-40
ALT (SGPT) 14 IU/L 0-44

Lipid Panel w/ Chol/HDL Ratio [Final]
Cholesterol, Total 151 mg/dL 100-199
Triglycerides 77 mg/dL 0-149
HDL Cholesterol 46 mg/dL >39
VLDL Cholesterol Cal 15 mg/dL 5-40
LDL Cholesterol Calc 90 mg/dL 0-99
T. Chol/HDL Ratio 3.3 ratio 0.0-5.0

Iron and TIBC [Final]
Iron Bind.Cap.(TIBC) 333 ug/dL 250-450
UIBC 198 ug/dL 111-343
Iron 135 ug/dL 38-169
Iron Saturation 41 % 15-55

Vitamin B12 and Folate [Final]
Vitamin B12 679 pg/mL 232-1245
Folate (Folic Acid), Serum 14.5 ng/mL >3.0

Testosterone,Free and Total [Final]
Testosterone, Serum 375 ng/dL 264-916
Free Testosterone(Direct) 12.7 pg/mL 8.7-25.1

Dihydrotestosterone [Final]
Dihydrotestosterone 41 ng/dL

DHEA-Sulfate [Final]
DHEA-Sulfate 225.0 ug/dL 138.5-475.2

TSH [Final]
TSH 1.390 uIU/mL 0.450-4.500

Luteinizing Hormone(LH), S [Final]
LH 4.6 mIU/mL 1.7-8.6

Prolactin [Final]
Prolactin 12.3 ng/mL 4.0-15.2

Prostate-Specific Ag, Serum [Final]
Prostate Specific Ag, Serum 1.0 ng/mL 0.0-4.0
Roche ECLIA methodology.

IGF-1 [Final]
Insulin-Like Growth Factor I 263 ng/mL 101-307 02 F

Vitamin D, 25-Hydroxy [Final]
Vitamin D, 25-Hydroxy 60.5 ng/mL 30.0-100.0

Estradiol, Sensitive [Final]
Estradiol, Sensitive 22.6 pg/mL 8.0-35.0

Zinc, Plasma or Serum [Final]
Zinc, Plasma or Serum 106 ug/dL 56-134

Ferritin, Serum [Final]
Ferritin, Serum 164 ng/mL 30-400

Sex Horm Binding Glob, Serum [Final]
Sex Horm Binding Glob (SHBG), Serum 21.3 nmol/L 16.5-55.9 01 F

Thanks for the response. It feels better to hear voices outside of my own.

No I suppose I did leave out some details in my rant but I've had testosterone tested before. 5 years ago I was at TT of 250. However, that was at a very stressful time in my life and I was also VERY sleep deprived. Another in June this year (about 2 weeks after I broke it off) @ 350 and when I was overweight @ 195. Then about 2 weeks ago at 375 for Defy. I'm wondering if these are my normal levels. But then again, I do not always show symptoms of low T. Medically I'm normal, but my research says I still could be hypogonadal. I've had periods of high libido and periods where I feel like nothing and could not get things up to save my life. However like you said, stress, depression and my diet could be at play here and I have lived with anxiety and depression on and off though my life. There are lot of unknowns and I know jumping on TRT is a huge undertaking. It might be good for me, or it could very well cause more problems than I currently have. I'm not at that point where I feel I have nothing to loose so that brings a ton of fear for me.

There is a lot to think about. But you guys make a good point and having done my first injection really made me think if it really is too early for me. Sadly my symptoms are not cut and dry as many people I read seem to have. I always feel like I'm in flux. But I need to step away from starting treatment for now. I have a plan to see a psychologist this week to see if I can start thinking straight again. I have been in a lot of isolation in the last 3 months.

I'm also considering on seeing if I have any deficiencies. So far my Zinc and D levels look dead center average.

What is your SHBG?

My SHBG runs at about 21.3 nmol\L. I actually have tried Clomid for a month. I guess you could consider that my first time on TRT.  It kicked up my Testosterone levels but it did shoot up my estradiol levels and made me a pissy low libido person. That defiantly scared me off.


I have a lot to spill out here. But it might give you an idea on the amount of stress I am getting here.

I'm starting TRT for the first time in my life at a very early age of 30 and I have a lot going on in my head right now. I'm putting this out because I really wanted to hear from some people actually going though TRT or maybe from people who were broadline low. I'm second guessing if I really should be on this stuff despite my vague symptoms. I have so many concerns and I think I'm not rationally thinking this out.

To put it short, I did some lab work with Defy and my total testosterone came out to 370 which is low compared to my age group by about 200. I'm currently at the age of 30 and my main symptom has been lower libido and ED at times. I would not say I'm terrible but I really do not think about sex as often as I think other men do at my age. When I was in my last relationship my ability to perform was sporadic. When I started dating I would often go twice in one go. But midway towards the end it was one go then stop or not at all. I would often have sex at least twice a week until midway towards the end of the relationship. During the second half, sometimes I was good, sometimes I could barely stand at attention and sometimes it felt like a chore. However I think those times came during time I was experiencing work stress and having relationship troubles which led to me breaking it up about 3 months ago from a 1 year relationship.

Maybe I'm borderline low T or maybe it is low due to external reasons like depression or stress. I wonder if it is maybe depression or anxiety causing these issues to begin with including my low T. I have been questioning a lot of things lately.

As far as heath, I went on a diet and got my weight down 23 pounds to healthy levels (5'10 @ 169) and improved my sleep over the last 3 or 4 months . When I took the testosterone test for Defy, I was on my 1500 calorie diet but I was about 18 pounds down and in healthy levels which makes me wonder if that resulted in low levels.

Going though Defy they recommended I take an AI (.125mg), HCG (500IU) and Testosterone (70mg) semi weekly. Upon taking my first rounds of shots last Friday I had bad ED and lower libido but no depression or anxiety for a couple days. But I had a weird cramping feeling at the base of my penis and balls when attempting to get erect. Needless to say, that got me panicked and I'm wondering if the treatment is worse than the disease. I'm wondering if maybe the anxiety and depression has been in play. Could my depression and anxiety especially after the breakup be impacting my levels even to the point of low levels? Is my levels really that low? My libido has been going up and down over the past couple of months.

On that note, I have been obsessing over the fact that I've seen very little on long-term use of TRT and many people with low libido. The symptoms from my first shot as well as me considering doing this for life has me really on edge and I feel like I can't make a rational decision here. I paid for 3 months of medication but I make a good enough paycheck to not have that be a big concern for me. A loss of 300 dollars is not going to deter me if it means not making a life mistake.

Frankly, I felt like talking to Defy about what I'm thinking but they have a hand in the game so I want to reach out to you guys first.

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