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Messages - mrmagoo2010

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I know that TSH is determined mostly by T4, but I'm not sure if this is total or free, i.e., before or after thyroid binding globulin "sticks" to T4.  Perhaps his total T4 is really low and thyroid binding globulin really low as well? 

When it comes to thyroid, I've just about come to consider labwork as a distant second to what a good physical and history reveals.  A trial of thyroid hormone, especially T4 only, is generally very safe, especially if the signs, symptoms, and labwork indicate it.  High TSH means your brain senses there isn't enough thyroid hormone, so that's that.

I agree, I have the exact same bloodwork as him, so it might be genetic, which makes me think thyroid resistance, but apparently thats very rare and one in 40,000 people. However, it requires high doses of T3 to work, which sounds like an absolute nightmare, especially as pharma grade heroin is easier to obtain in UK than T3

laser treatment?
salicyclic acid?

try them?

so, an update

he had TSH tested again, risen to 9! Antibodies negative

saw a GP ( I Went in with him ) The GP said if your depressed I find mitrazipine works best... your TSH is high but your numbers look good, so I said why is his thyroid asking for more when his numbers are fine? No answer

I didn't want to get into the whole RT3 issue with him, as he was desperately trying to push him onto anti depressants

So I said, if your willing to give him anti-D, why aren't you willing to give him T4? Theres no way to really judge how an anti-d is working, theres a way to judge if T4 is working, by numbers. Then, if he still has depression, then maybe Anti D

So he gave him T4, which is good, my bro can start T4, and if that doesn't work, I shall test him for RT3, and source the T3 myself and we can start with that

What backwards thinking is it to give someone an ANTI-D rather than T4?

Mr Magoo  i think Pentox  might have made a difference too , i wil experiment with it again but i am very sure it mde some difference i have stopped using it for no  but i know i can fall back on it if needed , the good thing i have found is i still have options  with  Pentox, Viagra and Yombine if  the effects of the other protocol  wears off

I point out that Pentox  +Yohimbe+Viagra were part of the whole protocol ie including Vitamin C, Cialis    but i dropped as an experiment and  i still get good  erections

Did you source the pentox online or get it from GP?

I have been trying this also using aged garlic and vit C in similar concentrations and have found no difference in EQ at all hence my earlier question wanting links to the products the OP has used.

Yeah same, thats why I asked him about his pentox usage

What are your thoughts on pentox?

You may over do it.

Armour has a lot of T3 in it. But also T4. Your T4 could use a boost so If it was me, I would not bother with the T3 at all and stick with Armour.

How are you getting these medications as rhey reauire a prescription from a Dr?  And what dose are you thinking?

T3 is ised up in about 8 hours.  And both cytomel and Armour you should take in two doses ler day because of how quickly T3 is used.

I would not recommend self medicating. Find a Dr.to work with. It may take time.

Low and slow!

T3 is powerful stuff and peaks in the blood about 4 hours after taking it.

Understand the difference between micrograms (mcg) and miligrams (mg). VERY important difference!  By a factor of 1,000!

Armour is measured in grains or mg with about 60 mg per grain.

Cytomel synthetic T3 is measured in mcg.

I live in the uk, doctors are not allowed to prescribe armour or t3, dont ask why, its not allowed

I have been dealing with this issue for 4-5 years, granted I don't feel amazing but i dont feel bad either

I have taken 25mcg of t3 a day for about 6 months, but stopped as my source ran dry

I will now try armour.. I can get t4 easily, but isnt t4 alone not good?

Also, when I last tested in 2013, my reverse T3 was high, thats why I tried t3 alone

Brothers iron is not too bqd at 42% of the range. But Ferritin is a measly small 13% of the range. Definable I think part of the problem.

Your thyroid labs are also interesting. TSH insnt bad but anything more than 3 is suggestive of possible low thyroid regardless of what the range says. You are towards the cery high wnd of the range. FreeT4 is only 34% of the range. And FreeT3 is 54% of rhe range. Again not horrible but if having symptoms given the rule of thumb above would suggest some supplemental thyroid could be in order.

The low antibodies numbers indicate you do NOT have Hashimotos.

But if you dont have low rhyroid symptoms, theseower levels may be OK for you.

I have just ordered some t3 and some armour thyroid, t3 will be here tomorrow and armour next week, I will see if it improves my dry skin at least

The ranges are a bit odd.

His free T4 is pretty high at 76% of the range. I think a bit too high.

Free T3 is 58% of the range which is not horrible, but could be higher for sure.

When the FT3 is lower in the range than the FT4 range, which is the case here. It is a strong indication there is a conversion problem.

Here is what I think is happening. Not enough of the T4 is being created by conversion into free T3. OR is being overly converted into reverse T3 which is inactive.  Thus leaving him hypo (low) thyroid at the cellular level. The body (pituitary) senses the low thyroid condition and pumps out TSH to get the thyroid gland to pump out more thyroid hormone(which explains the high TSH). And alsoexplains the high freeT4 levels.  But the poor conversion continues leaving lower levels of  free T3, And the cycle continues.

This explaines higher TSH yet Hypo symptoms. He doesnt have horrible hypo symptoms because his free T3 levels are not horrible.

The rule of thumb that works for most people, is to have BOTH of the following.
 1) free T4 to be about 50% - his are at 76%
2) free T3 to be a min of 50% but most people need it up to about 67%

I suggest that new thyroid panel be run and this time also be sure to include reverse T3.

Selenium can help with conversion of T4 to T3, so this may be worth a try. The OTC selenium is about 200 mcg (micro-grams). Or eat like 1 Brazil nut a day. Do NOT over do it!

B12 range is also odd. Normally see something like 500-1000. Regardless, his b12 appears very low. I would recommend a sublingual B12 supplement.

Agree vitamin D is also low.

Has he had cortisol tested?  High cortisol and high stress can go hand in hand and mess up thyroid metabolism.

Finally I would recommend Iron and Ferritin also be tested. Ferritin is needed for proper metabolism and I think aids in conversion process of T4 to T3.

Vitamin D, B12 and iron/ferritin as well as lower thyroid all cause fatigue symptoms if deficient. Your brother has at least two if not more of these!

Yep, he is going through stress, and here in uk, getting cortisol tested isnt easy, we had to pay for these labs privately

here are his iron results

IRON  18.03          umol/L    10.60 -28.30
T.I.B.C                       60.13          umol/L    41.00 -77.00
TRANSFERRIN SATURATION        29.99          %         20.00 -55.00
FERRITIN                      78.2           ug/L      30.00 -400.00

also, here are my results taken on the same day


FREE THYROXINE 15.400 pmol/L 12.00 - 22.00

FREE T3 5.12 pmol/L 3.10 - 6.80



He should probably supplement with some vitamin D.

yeah just gave him my pills, 10k IU a day

Are you/he taking iodine?
How do you feel/how does he feel?

nope, no iodine

he has very bad sleep, wakes up a lot, low quality sleep, low moods

I feel fine mentally, just dry skin

He is 25 years old, he has nearly exact same situation as me, high TSH with normal ft3 and ft4 thoughts?


FREE THYROXINE 19.600 pmol/L 12.00 -22.00

FREE T3 5.25 pmol/L 3.10 -6.80

ACTIVE B12 45.100 pmol/L 25.10 -165.00

FOLATE (SERUM) 5.06 ug/L 2.91 -50.0025

OH VITAMIN D 52 nmol/L 50.00 -200.00

I thought that was an excuse for people to give themselves a bit more Test dose than they need

I'm a hyper excreter and I'm currently on 500mg a week...( joking )

Testosterone ordered, and I'm raring to go next week

it's a shame in UK that its easier to get methadone than a trial of TRT

I have high SHBG with good testosterone and low free testosterone

I will inject some T next week, maybe 100-150mg a week for 6 months, concurrent with HCG

It's not going to kill me, I will take bloodwork.. I only worry about injecting, I'm sure after the first one it will be a breeze

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