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Messages - Ken

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Testosterone, Hormones and General Men's Health / Re: iron panel
« on: September 11, 2014, 11:52:30 pm »
One observation:

Your hemoglobin range on 7/3 in your signature is in error.  A typo or something.

 A typical range for an adult male is 13.3 to 17.2.  Yours says 21.6 (which would likely be fatal) to 17.7

For whatever its worth  :)

Testosterone, Hormones and General Men's Health / Re: drying out?
« on: September 10, 2014, 04:57:50 pm »
Anyone ever dried out from T for a few days(6-7)  I started with IM, and have now gone to subQ, but am feeling the effects of slowly building E2.  I know that peakT and K have dried out before so I was wondering what protocol you guys used i.e  how many days with no T, dosage when you resumed T, etc..

Can this be used as a way to 'start over' and find the appropriate dosage from the beginning?

This drying out thing is a really new thing for me and others on subq.  It doesn't seem nearly as needed with IM given how quickly T levels drop with IM, regardless of SHBG.  It seems like it's just taking a very long time to reduce T and E2 levels; like I said before, it's like I'll feel better for a few hours, then bad for a few, then better.  Sometimes this seems to affect my sleep, other times it doesn't. 

I started drying out subq two weeks ago after I realized I was injecting way too much: went six days drying out, feeling gradually better (intermittent with feeling worse at times), then went on three 20 mg EOD injections and noticed I started feeling bad again, so now I'm on my second dry out period, and planning on injecting 20 mg tomorrow which would be six days. 

It's a bit frustrating.  I'm unambiguously having better erections, higher libido, and feeling more energized and clearheaded at times, so that's hopeful; but at other times for only a few hours I'll feel bad, and have only 6-7 hours of sleep that doesn't seem that restful (either the bad sleep causing me to feel bad, or high E2 is interfering with my sleep).

But now my plan is to inject only 20 mg every 3-4 days until I sleep better, and if needed take another 5-6 day dryout.  Whatever it is, if you have highish SHBG like me, subq appears to take a very long time coming down, but seems to hit a peak within 24-36 hours like IM injections; the slow decline seems very much like the super slow decline with pellets.

So I'm wondering if pellets and subq cypionate are pretty much the same, just a matter of dose...

Have you tried Arimidex in tandem with your T shots?  At 20mg every 3 or 4 days you are only at 40mg total per week.  That seems very low to me.  If you are dosing this low because you believe your E2 is problematic at higher doses, then I recommend you try low dosing Arimedex at 1/2 a tablet twice a week.  If you do this you should be able to up your T dosage to at least 100mg/week.  100mg to 150mg /week is more the norm for most guys on IM injections.

Just a thought for you that might help.

Testosterone, Hormones and General Men's Health / Re: Started IM Shots
« on: September 10, 2014, 04:48:52 pm »

Probably not much point in getting FSH tested as you can be sure it will be barely detectable with test shots.

But it can't hurt I suppose either to test it.  Especially if your insurance is paying for it.


Well not to offend you, but if I were to assume that your 275lb weight at 5'8" tall is not solid muscle, you could really be a high T to E converter (those darn fat cells love to eat T and crap E). 

I am guessing the answer is as simple as 1-1/2 tablets (1/2 3X/week) of anistrozole (Arimedex) to slow down your conversion and leave the 150mg/week of T as is. Assuming there isn't something else entirely wrong with you that has been missed, I bet this combination will turn you right around to feeling great again.

I am doing 175mg/week and 1/2 tablet twice a week.  I am 214lb and 6'1" 12.5% BF.  I only do the arimedex because I am using the high side of injections (175/week is a bit high compared to average)

Good Luck


Whoa!  "God bless Testosterone" - funny.

I can't keep up with you and Sam.  You guys are setting the pace here.  But I'm particularly proud of you cuzz you're a member of the AARP crowd like myself.  Sam is still a young pup.   ;D

Okay, so here is a question for you:  can you now bench more than any guy over 50 that you know of?  I'll bet the answer is yes!

No, I haven't been benching.  I got side tracked on another goal:  the most pushups I could do in 23 minutes.  I actually did 330 in 23 minutes, which I don't think is too bad.  However, I was dang sore for about 5 days afterward and decided that maybe I didn't want to be the next Jack LaLanne.   ;D

What is the relevance of 23 minutes out of curiosity?  Whatever it is, that is a lot of pushups!!!!

There is a guy that spots me now and then at the gym that just turned 70 and can still bench about 275 !  He holds a few lifting records still at the San Jose Police Dept from when he was in his fifty's. He claims when he was my age (52) he was at his peak at 380lb.  He put up 352 in competition at 63 !  That's with a pause! He is legit and also claims to have never touched juice.  Thing is though, although he is the same height and body style as me, he said he weighed in at 240 when he did 380.  If I weighed 240 and used my 1.61% power-to-weight I should be pushing up 386.4lb.  So he and I are remarkably close in strength to weight if you use his numbers at my age.

Real answer to your question though is: No I don't personally know anyone over 50 right now that can match me.  Paul Tuttle on Orange County Choppers (TV) can bench well over 400 and is likely around 60 !

Resurrecting this thread.

Hey Peak,

After a few setbacks during the last 4 months (minor illnesses and injuries) I finally got back to my all time personal best on Monday at 345 pounds! I am weighing in at 214 pounds which gives me a 161.2% power to weight ratio.  I actually (to my surprise blasted it up with a bit of authority.  Might have had 350 in me).  But I will take the 345 for now and live for next Monday when I will load the bar for the first time with 350 pounds (3 plates, a dime, a nickel, and 2-1/2 on each side) for those counting.  8)

I also followed that rep with a triple at 315.  Must be the summer weather or something.  I also hit nice gain spurts around this time last year. Also, God bless Testosterone!!!

Anyway, did you get back to benching yet?


I put salt in everything.  Including:

Red meat
ALL Pasta
Many, Many others to include extra salt in my tomato juice!!

Here's the thing though.  Every blood test that I get shows either just at the lowest threshold of normal or a little below normal range for sodium.  I don't have high blood pressure as a result either.  I do workout a lot and perhaps this drives the craving.

Anyway, I thought I would offer a data point that is counter to the conventional don't-eat-salt preachings.

Well, that's one reading I don't have.  I'll ask about testing that.  But if it's out of whack is the treatment to add more testosterone or do they address that directly with other means?

Oh, I called my endo and she confirmed we were just "trying" out axiron to see if it made me feel any better and or raised my T levels, which it did neither.  I didn't get but a minute with her.  She said axiron could NOT lower T levels and that it was itself testosterone.  She said she wanted to wait a month after stopping axiron in order to see if my levels came up on their own, mentioning summer weather, etc..  I mentioned I always feel the same, for last few years and that I was essentially reliant on cialis, fatigued, on and on. 

I also mentioned having read about clomid, novalex and or HCG as a way to boost ones own T levels and I was told that protocol is not FDA approved and not recommended.  I was told I could try androgel and report back when we meet in a month.  I decided to fill the prescription and give it a few weeks to see if there is any difference.  In the meantime I made a appt with a different endo in order to get a second opinion.

Forgive me for saying but your endo sounds like she might be an idiot.  :o

Here is what she and other docs consistently do not consider:

When you get exogenous T through any means your LH and FSH drop.  These are the signals from the brain to balls to make more or less T.  When your pituitary/hypo see this extra T from the topical they say hay "we have plenty of T, balls take a break" The problem is that even somewhat low doses of exogenous (which is what you get with Axiron) is plenty to shut down your natural production.  Now if this happens, AND the amount of exogenous T is less than what you were previously producing on your own, your net result is a downward shift it T level.  Not rocket science, but these docs dont seem to grasp this.  Additionally, when you add in that all guys absorb the topicals differently, you can see that what she is saying is nonsense.  Typical arrogant doctor that doesn't bother to thoroughly think a situation through.

If she wants to see how you do with a nice spike in your T level the solution is easy:


If you do this, I can almost guarantee you that all of your T levels will rise noticeably.  If they don't, then you have proof that something else is off (like SHBG for example).

One last idea comes to mind that unfortunately I am no expert in, but Sam and Peak can likely offer more on it. 

SHBG.  Have you had this tested.  From my limited knowledge on the topic, I believe SGBG levels directly relate to free T levels.  This might be something the other guys can expand on and worth your consideration.

Good Luck.


So I, for one, have sympathy for your I-had-a-giant-sore-on-my-ass story.   ;D

Gargantuan !!!   :o

Hey Jack!  Been a while,

Hey I gotta ask you cuz I once had lower back pains similar where it went down my right leg pretty bad and at the worst I was slightly dragging my right leg along when I was walking. You know what caused mine?

I was single, between wives, and was hammering every skirt in sight, all night and every night! (of course this is b4 I ever needed TRT)  I was also not staying on top of my gym regimen to keep muscles (core and such) balanced.  I suffered with it for about a year on and off.  Finally, I got married again (sex slowed down to reasonable lol) and I got back to regular gym schedule.

So you are married I see and this might not be your cause.  But hey some guys have wild sex lives with their wives so I thought you might want to consider it.

It seems in my case overdoing that pelvic thrust can lead to sciatica !  8)

Nice to see you again Ken! Actually I'm not married but I doubt my sex life is vigorous enough to cause injury. I think you're probably onto something though with the imbalanced core.

I think the pains down the back of my legs might've just been soreness from doing sprints. I did my usual 5k two days ago with no problems and then I did sprints yesterday no problems. So I'm guessing I strained a back muscle or something. Its getting better. I'm not going to liftn heavy until I get a weightlifting belt though.

I just watched Brian Shaw beat the world record deadlift at 442.5kg in the 2013 Worlds Strongest Man. That looks painful! His back was rounded the whole way up too. I don't know how he doesn't injure himself.

Sorry about the wife assumption.  I thought I read that your wife suggested yoga.  Must have misread it.

Also, I thought the WR for deadlift was over 1,000 lb (442.5 Kg = 975.5 Lb). 

WR for bench press is definitely over 1,000 lb and I would think the deadlift record should be greater than bench press record.

You talking about this thread, Ken?


Yep.  That one will work.  There was another one that I posted about a day or two after my first shot that spelled out my "blast off" experience.  But this will do.


Hey Jack!  Been a while,

Hey I gotta ask you cuz I once had lower back pains similar where it went down my right leg pretty bad and at the worst I was slightly dragging my right leg along when I was walking. You know what caused mine?

I was single, between wives, and was hammering every skirt in sight, all night and every night! (of course this is b4 I ever needed TRT)  I was also not staying on top of my gym regimen to keep muscles (core and such) balanced.  I suffered with it for about a year on and off.  Finally, I got married again (sex slowed down to reasonable lol) and I got back to regular gym schedule.

So you are married I see and this might not be your cause.  But hey some guys have wild sex lives with their wives so I thought you might want to consider it.

It seems in my case overdoing that pelvic thrust can lead to sciatica !  8)

I'm not trying to turn us all into Howard Hughes wannabes, but about 2% of people harbor MRSA and it's becoming widespread in the home as well.  Yeah, wash your hands and keep your immunity up!


"MONDAY, April 21, 2014 (HealthDay News) -- An antibiotic-resistant "superbug," long a problem in health-care settings, is now taking up residence in people's homes, a new U.S. study finds...In the end, they found evidence that people's homes were "major reservoirs" of a MRSA strain called USA300 -- which is the chief cause of community MRSA infections across the United States...If you have a MRSA infection, how do you protect your family members? "Basically, it boils down to keeping the wound covered, and frequent hand washing," Chambers said...The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimates about one in three people carries staph bacteria in the nose, usually without sickness. About 2 percent of people harbor MRSA.

I have had MRSA twice!  First time was a boil on my butt cheek that was about the size of a baseball before I got to the emergency room and it opened, drained, and put on special antibiotics.  The second time was a year later when I started Axiron in the armpits.  Got one about the size of a golf ball in right armpit.  Culture came back again as MRSA.  That was a bit over a year ago and I have been fine since and no one in my house/family have contracted it.  I did get run down during the holidays with colds, sinus infections, bronchitis, one after another and was afraid that I might get another case of MRSA.  So my doctor swabbed my nostrils to see if I was harboring the stuff and it came back clean!  Pretty sure my two incidents were from contacting the stuff in the gym.  All the stuff needs is a small break in the skin.  The seat on the bike in gym gave me tiny little irritation scratch that gave the butt boyle, and the axiron caused a rash in my armpit that caused the second one.

Really important to immediately clean any minor scratch or wound thoroughly afterward and cover it.  Especially if you were just in a filthy (bacteria wise) place like a gym, or even worse a hospital.

No, I have never smoked, don't drink, don't take any medication except cialis.  I get 6-8 hrs of sleep a night.  Fitness and nutrition are a large part of my life.  I have been in the gym 3-5 days a week since a early teenager and I am fairly disciplined in the type of food I eat.  I limit high fatty foods, lots of chicken, egg whites, fruit,etc...  I am not overweight. 

I have noticed a marked decrease in my desire to hit the gym over the last two years and my strength is far from what it used to be.  These were two key things that hit me mentally leading me to think something was going on.  Hope that help paint a better picture.  Thx.

Well I was in a very similar position when I started down this path although I am a bit older at 51 (52 now).  I was, and still am, in very good shape and a lifetime gym rat.  12.5%BF .  The first thing I noticed was my diminishing interest in sex and first thought that this was just due to long term marriage or my age or something.  I didn't really act on that at that time.  But then, just as happened to you, I noticed my workouts were becoming more and more of a grind and I was unable to keep strength levels stable and in fact went backward a bit.  It was at this point, with fitness being so important to me, that I knew something was wrong.  That was when I started exploring HRT and started with Axiron (useless garbage as far as I'm concerned) and ended up on shots.  My story is captured somewhere on this site if you are interested.  Peak can likely point you to it. The summary is that life is back to normal and then some!

Also, peak is ABSOLUTELY right about endo's.  Truth is your endo is doing more than most and it doesn't seem he is all that.  You might want to try an anti-aging clinic or an HRT clinic.

Lastly, I noticed you wrote you get 6-8 hours sleep.  Everything I read suggests that for optimum health 8 hours should be the MINIMUM.  I usually get between 8 and 9.  You just gotta figure out a way to do it.  Try sleeping a quality 8 hours minimum for 7 straight days and see if you don't fell a bit better.  It's a bit of a reach, but worth a try.

Oh, and we never saw your vitamin D readings.  Should be 40 minimum and ideally 50 minimum.

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