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Messages - seppuku

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1
I don't expect this to help me any but I've got to try it. I still think my issue lies in whatever is causing my kidney numbers and co2 to be out of whack which is causing mild acidosis and it still could be low dopamine causing my issues also. I've been reading up on mao inhibitors and that will be my next experiment after the kisspeptin and gnrh.

Fingers crossed you wont bite my head off this time but if you haven't  already read this, then you might find it useful -
https://www.kidney.org/atoz/content/facts-about-metabolic-acidosis-and-chronic-kidney-disease
Taking small amounts of bicarb is thought to be healthy anyhow, i take it daily with my creatine

2
Seppuku your suggestion got me thinking. It never occurred to me that Clomid/enclomiphene could have a dampening effect on estrogen receptors! So I checked some old notes/labs I made Sept.2018 – Aug 2020. By mid-2019 and into June 2020 my libido was not great but acceptable. My protocol was still a work in progress at that time but it was generally around 12.5mg Clomid and DIM 200mg four to six times a month. Unfortunately I got too complacent and took only one lab for the year - December 2019. This lab was TT 820 pg/mL, Free T 84 pg/mL, estradiol <20 (?), SHBG 83nmol/L, LH 4.8 miU/ml etc. Unremarkable, almost normal.  Then in July 2020 I unfortunately tweaked the protocol a little and my libido declined. My 08/07/20 lab was TT 1283.1 pg/mL, Free T 98.5 pg/mL, estradiol 43 pg/ml, SHBG 85 nmol/L, LH 5.3 mlU/ml.  Hormones are truly a balancing act. Maybe someday...        Interesting idea about neurotransmitters, I’ll speak with my doctor concerning replacing my Wellbutrin with selegiiline.  Thank you.                                                                                         

No problem, and good luck!  I've been reading other peoples progress and experiences for years - most people seem to get the fat loss / muscle building effects etc from increased testosterone, but it's always libido that causes problems. It's such a tricky one and probably depends on many factors (hormones but also stress, sleep, diet etc etc). And it would seem that generally, very low e2 levels are worse than very high ones, but there's always a sweet spot.  Regarding clomid, for me, and more (or less) than 12.5mg three times a week, and i just don't feel right.

3
Apparently an MAO-B inhibitor greatly increases absorption of PEA. I was mindful of that study that used only 90 mg PEA daily with selegiline, and it's been a good dose for me. I did try 180 mg, but it was interfering with sleep. I started selegiline at 1.25 mg daily and gradually titrated up to 2.5 mg. I felt some benefits at the lower dose, but 2.5 mg crosses some threshold for me and results are now consistently good.

2.5mg selegiline is also my prefered dose, although i'm not consistant with it lately. I think of i'd tried PEA at around 90mg too, i might have had less scary results!

4
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Hi Cataceous - i've been facinated lately reading here, and on Nelsons site about your trials and experimentation with regards to your own protocol. I hope people here appeciate what a fountain of knowledge you are and the advice you freely give out.  Quick question - have you found through adding on the enclomiphene to your trt that it's increased your LH /FSH levels?  I'm guessing if it has it wouldn't be by a huge amount due to the exogenous testosterone, but has it increased enough to have an effect on other things like your dhea levels, or testicular volume?  That to me seems like the holy grail of hormone replacement for men, avoiding, or at least reducing the suppression that occurs with trt.

You're one of the ones I was learning from originally, and I'm happy to be similarly sharing knowledge with others.

The combination of enclomiphene and GnRH can raise LH and FSH under TRT, and did in my case, as documented here.


Enclomiphene by itself will generally not overcome the suppressive effects of TRT. This is because androgens are independently suppressive at the hypothalamus, blocking kisspeptin production, which in turn shuts down GnRH. Use of exogenous GnRH bypasses this problem. It's possible that use of exogenous kisspeptin would do the same.

Interestingly, the protocol does not seem to have noticeably affected progesterone or DHEA-S. I'm not sure why that is. But having even low-normal levels of both LH and FSH has improved testicular and ejaculate volumes considerably, more so than 1,000 IU hCG weekly. It also appears to retain or restore fertility. Endogenous contributions to testosterone are too small to discern. This isn't so surprising given that it was also true with hCG. I expect this will vary depending on the individual; some guys see substantial endogenous testosterone with very modest amounts of hCG.

Wow, that's a fantastic finding, and a great result Cataceous - LH numbers well within "normal" results. I wonder if over time that will increase even more for you - i'll be definitely keeping tabs on your progress.

5
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Can you walk me thru the need for the enclomiphene? I've never used any serms before so I've never studied them.

Estrogens act at the pituitary to reduce production of the gonadotropins, LH and FSH. This won't interfere with any independent benefits of GnRH, but if you're trying to get away from hCG and experience the separate benefits of making your own LH and FSH then a SERM such as enclomiphene is used to block the suppressive effects of estradiol at the pituitary. SERM use may be a balancing act: there's speculation that SERMs in excess could block the desirable effects of estradiol elsewhere in the brain. This is why I dropped my enclomiphene dose to 12.5 mg EOD even though the gonadotropin production may not be quite as good as with daily use.

Hi Cataceous - i've been facinated lately reading here, and on Nelsons site about your trials and experimentation with regards to your own protocol. I hope people here appeciate what a fountain of knowledge you are and the advice you freely give out.  Quick question - have you found through adding on the enclomiphene to your trt that it's increased your LH /FSH levels?  I'm guessing if it has it wouldn't be by a huge amount due to the exogenous testosterone, but has it increased enough to have an effect on other things like your dhea levels, or testicular volume?  That to me seems like the holy grail of hormone replacement for men, avoiding, or at least reducing the suppression that occurs with trt.

6
I would say the same things as seppuku: Concern about the enclomiphene itself, which would be a reason to try EOD dosing; otherwise the neurotransmitters. I take selegiline with PEA—phenethylamine—and I really like the combination. You can also look at the things in JustAskin's stack: https://www.peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=9644.0

Please be careful with that combo Cataceous - i tried it once, probably too much pea really as the effect was dramatic but scared the hell out of me. I had been taking the selegiline regularly, 2.5mg a day. I took some pea before a workout (it was loose powder so i'm unsure of the dose but probably between 250mg - 500mg i think). I had a wave of euphoria go through me, but also an extreme flushing of the skin, rapid heart beat. I came out of my gym to tell my wife how great i felt, and noticed i had zero sensitivity to pain - i reckon i could have put a skewer through my leg and wouldn't have felt it. I checked my blood pressure, and it was much higher than normal. I had to stop my workout as i was worried about my blood pressure, but also because the feeling of pleasure was just to great to want to do anything!!  I know you've been using this combo with success so you must be using a correct dosage, but i thought i should mention what happened to me because although it felt pleasurable, it also scared me off trying it again!! I'd taken pea before (without selegiline), and on its own had very little effect. With selegiline in the mix though, it needs cautious dosages of pea starting low.

7
Yet my libido is still flat lining and no morning wood.

Your response to clomid and enclomiphene is great. As to libido, maybe your testosterone is now actually too high?  I've heard of people who do steroid cycles actually having worse libido on cycle (not everyone, obviously). It could also be the enclomiphene / clomid itself dampening your libido due to its effects on estrogen receptors - if it was me and i was getting those results, i'd look at dropping down to the minimum amount that keeps me around 600 - 800 ng/dl and seeing how that affects libido. Estrogen's needed for libido / neurotransmitters, and if the clomid's blocking the receptors too much in the brain that could cause your problem. Also, something for dopamine might help - 2.5mg selegiiline (sublingual) spikes my libido every time, and my testosterone is currently a pathetic 10 nmol / l unfortunately (around 300 ng/dl). I'm jealous of your results as i'm on 12.5mg m,w,f of clomid, mid range LH but my balls are being stubborn!!

8
I am experiencing a lot of muscle cramping.  I visited my local PA and he said that hydration and stretching may help.  It is usually my calves, hamstrings, lower back, or some deep inner thigh muscles that cramp up right when i stand up from sitting for a bit called the psoas major and minor. 

I am struggling to get enough potassium, magnesium, and calcium in my diet.  I take a multivitamin every day and also take a potassium and magnesium aspartate supplement.  However, my labs continue to show only very little electrolyte improvement. 

I am wondering if prescription electrolyte supplements are a thing because I can’t seem to get adequate amounts from my diet alone and even with supplements, too!

I used to get cramps really bad, especially during the night after working out. Regular salt was the only thing that stopped them. I've always taken magnesium supps and used lo salt for the potassium, but it was sodium that cured mine

9
Ah yes, you're the "if you're within the range then there's nothing wrong with you" type. Seems as tho you're skeptical of my story and you come across as a smug know it all so I'll keep this short. My T was 327 when I was put on T. That level was checked around 2 pm meaning it was probably high 300s in the mornings when most T is checked. But wait, that's within the range so I should have felt great, right? I had been off dhea for 2 or 3 months when that T level was checked meaning the damage was done already. Let me tell you something I haven't told a whole lot of people. When low T first hit me I had a depression I didn't know could exist. I literally had my pistol in my hand one night and damn near blew my brains out because I was so depressed, and had no damn clue why I was depressed. I had never had suicidal thoughts ever before. Then lo and behold trt fixed that depression just like magic. Does that sound like T in the 300s is good for me? Just because all you need is a small amount doesn't mean that works for everybody else. Maybe you have heard of people regaining their natural T levels after being on trt for awhile but I haven't. Why do you think so many bodybuilders go on trt after awhile? They can't recover anymore even with with pct meaning the damage is done. But basically what you're saying is anybody on this forum that had their T drop then went on trt and they feel like crap should just get off T, get their natural levels back and the world will be wonderful again. If I would have only known it was that easy! Why do you think I had to go on trt to begin with? Because my balls quit working! So my balls don't work yet I should quit trt to get my natural levels back that dropped because my balls quit working? Alrighty then. And if you'll reread my first post you'll see that I've been off trt for 14 months. At the 8 month mark I went back on trt for a bit but checked my T levels before I went back on and guess where they were? In the 300s. Do you really think it's as easy as getting off T and getting my natural levels back and everything will be wonderful again??? Wow.


Well, that put me straight didn't it, lol!!  Ok, i take it all back.  You're right - you should have gone ahead and used that gun.  But you didn't so alternatively, go f**k yourself.

10
Fwiw, here's my thoughts - so you were once a guy feeling great, but you took dhea, stopped it for some reason, and the stopping it made you feel bad. You go on trt (what was your test level before starting?). Trt makes you feel great, then 3 months later you crash. It's here where i get confused - you stick st it for 6 years, feeling like crap through all of it.  Why didn't you just quit it somewhere around the 1 year period?  At one point, an endo took you off and 2 months later your testosterone level was 370 ng/dl - so basically, NOT hypogonadal.  Ok, so it wasn't an ideal level, but for referrence, my last test came back at 12.1 nmol/l (340 ng/dl).  I'd like to feel a bit younger, but i have enough energy to work 9hr shifts as a maintenance man, libido's good, work out still.  You got your 370ng/dl only 2 months after coming off - that's a fantastic result at that time frame. I bet if you'd have just waited a few months you might have been double that, maybe more.  In your shoes, with the unsatisfactory results you've had from years of trt, i'd just come off and see what i could do naturally.  Full recovery could take over a year, but what have you got to lose, you already feel crap.

11
I noticed exactly the same reaction, first night i ever took melatonin  some years ago.  Melatonin lowers estradiol, maybe it's related to that?

12
Testosterone, Hormones and General Men's Health / Re: Clomid
« on: December 02, 2020, 02:08:53 pm »
Are you U.S.-based? If so I would press the doctor to prescribe enclomiphene instead. Clomid consists of two isomers, enclomiphene and zuclomiphene. Enclomiphene does the useful part, stimulating natural hormone production. Zuclomiphene, on the other hand, is estrogenic and frequently throws things out of whack. Enclomiphene is available through Tailor Made Compounding Pharmacy. I am using it and can vouch for its effectiveness.

What ghce says is true: SERMs like Clomid may be less effective in older guys like us because our natural hormone production capabilities are going down with age. Nonetheless I think it's worth trying. TRT has its own complications, such as shutting down many upstream hormones. This can lead to secondary problems.

Are you using enclomiphene as a monotherapy Cataceous, or along with trt?

13
Testosterone, Hormones and General Men's Health / Re: first cold sore?
« on: January 31, 2020, 10:17:20 am »
I had my first a couple of weeks ago. Put coconut oil on it, virtually gone in a couple of days

14
I don't do this but i would think the best way of taking multi vit/min suppliments would be to buy two or three different ones and alternate them day to day. I've been a vit junkie since my teenage years, i do wonder sometimes what i could have done with the money saved if i hadn't spent so much on supps

15
Libido is a complicated beast, more than just having high testosterone.  My latest blood test taken in November came back just over 6 nmol/l (185ng/dl), with calculated free test at half the lowest number of the given range. And yet my libido is pretty high right now, as in twice a day kinda high. Everything else is messed up though (gym results in gutter, body aches etc), but libido's perfect.

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