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Messages - Balderdasher

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1
Testosterone, Hormones and General Men's Health / Re: NALT Regimen
« on: April 27, 2020, 04:18:18 am »
Very helpful, thank you!

2
Testosterone, Hormones and General Men's Health / NALT Regimen
« on: April 26, 2020, 02:37:08 pm »
Hey All -

Been awhile since I've been on the forum - great to see that the community is still active and providing great advice to guys around the world!

I've been stable on a TRT protocol for awhile now, but have dealt with some lingering/occassional tiredness that seems to pop up for a day or two every few weeks.  I've recently had some success in combatting this issue with NALT, taking 400mg dissolved in water on an empty stomach first thing in the AM.  That said, I'm still fairly new to it and was curious to hear about the experience of others. 

For those that have used NALT, have you found it best to use it only as needed/cycle off of it, or have you been able to take it daily for extended periods of time without the effects diminishing?

Thank you!

3
Has anyone here stopped taking Cialis or other ED meds after starting TRT?

I have - took 2-3 weeks after stopping, but then things really started working again (~95% of the time).  I'll still use them occasionally if  having sex with a new partner, just to make sure, but am able to stop them again once we've reached a certain level of comfort.

4
Testosterone, Hormones and General Men's Health / Re: Bloodwork timing
« on: January 30, 2018, 01:25:04 am »
I am going to be in the city where my lab is on Thursday. I inject MWF. Should I skip Wed injection? I have been having a hell of a time trying to get away to get it done and am probably overdue, would rather not have to try to make another trip if I do not have to. Anyone else been in this situation?

Not a Doctor, but I would probably just stick to your normal injection schedule.  Injecting three times weekly, I would imagine that your labs would be pretty stable.

5
It was not but have pulled numerous times in the past with various t levels and it痴 always in the low to mid 20s with sensitive assay over the last 8 years. Figured no need in wasting more money for the test.

If libido is your lingering issue, I'd recommend having DHT and E2 pulled alongside T/SHBG.  Both E2 and DHT can have major impacts upon libido.  May also be worth having Free T3 and Free T4 pulled.  LH and FSH will always be low while you are on TRT, so might as well swap them out for something more useful.

Free Testosterone looks low-ish relative to your total T due to your abnormally high SHBG reading.  Would be worth consulting with your Doc to see if they would recommend upping your T dosage to raise your Free T up a bit more.

6
Ordering Provider
SAYA, J
Collect Date & Time Date of Service
1/25/2018 8:33 am 1/25/2018 12:00 am FINAL
Status Signed
B0070446262
Status Change Date Req. Number
1/27/2018 7:10am
Diagnostic Test / Results Results Out of Range Flag Units Range Site Stat
Lipid Panel w/ Chol/HDL Ratio [Final]
Notes Fasting - Yes
Cholesterol, Total 234 H mg/dL 100-199 01 F
Triglycerides 93 mg/dL 0-149 01 F
HDL Cholesterol 56 mg/dL >39 01 F
VLDL Cholesterol Cal 19 mg/dL 5-40 01 F
LDL Cholesterol Calc 159 H mg/dL 0-99 01 F
Comment: NP 01 X
T. Chol/HDL Ratio ratio 0.0-5.0
units
4.2 01 F
T. Chol/HDL Ratio
Men Women
1/2 Avg.Risk 3.4 3.3
Avg.Risk 5.0 4.4
2X Avg.Risk 9.6 7.1
3X Avg.Risk 23.4 11.0
Notes
FSH and LH [Final]
LH <0.2 L mIU/mL 1.7-8.6 01 F
FSH <0.2 L mIU/mL 1.5-12.4 01 F
Testosterone,Free and Total [Final]
Testosterone, Serum 717 ng/dL 264-916 01 F
Adult male reference interval is based on a population of
healthy nonobese males (BMI <30) between 19 and 39 years old.
Travison, et.al. JCEM 2017,102;1161-1173. PMID: 28324103.
Notes
Free Testosterone(Direct) 11.7 pg/mL 6.8-21.5 01 F
TSH [Final]
TSH 2.310 uIU/mL 0.450-4.500 01 F
Sex Horm Binding Glob, Serum [Final]
Sex Horm Binding Glob, Serum 62.5 H nmol/L 16.5-55.9 01 F
Cardiovascular Report [Final]
Interpretation Note 02 F
Notes Supplemental report is available.
PDF Image . 02 F
Tests Performed at Labs / Sites
01 LabCorp Dallas 7777 Forest Lane Suite C350 Dallas, TX 752302544 - MD Etufugh CN MD - 9725986000
02 LabCorp Burlington 1447 York Court Burlington, NC 272153361 - MD Hancock William F MD - 8007624344
Flag Legend: Flag Legend: L (Below Low Normal) H (Above High Normal) LL (Alert Low) HH (Alert High) < (Panic Low) > (Panic High) A (Abnormal) AA (Critical Abnormal)
Lab/HL7 Version: 2.3 AdvancedMD - EHR 12.3 Date: 1/27/2018 10:35:36AM Page: 1
Lab Patient Name: : 12/09/1973

This is on 80mg Cypionate once weekly with no other medications. Feel pretty well energy wise and pretty well overall. I have absolutely zero libido, which has been my main problem for 8 freakin years. This is 7 weeks at this dose. I tried going off test altogether the last few months of 2017 with disastrous results and feeling like total hell. These labs were drawn 7 days out morning of shot, prior to shot. Using the free testosterone calculator, this should put me at 10.4ng, which is slightly lower than the resulted value.

Not seeing estradiol - was it pulled in this draw?

7
Ask your doc, but I don't see why you would have to wait.  TRT is so strongly suppressive of LH signaling, that it is doubtful that the clomid would do much of anything, even if taken simultaneously with TRT (which is why we take low-dose HCG, and not clomid, with TRT).  However, any side effects from the clomid itself might linger as the drug clears out.

BTW, low muscle mass, chronic pain and procrastination all improved for me, once I got on TRT.  The anabolic effect was the most impressive thing (probably since I had low testosterone since puberty).  So if you already know what you are doing with diet and exercise, you could have a really impressive response in the gym.


Yeah. I don't really get any sides from clomid. I might see if I can produce on my own with the thyroid stuff.

Can you talk about the chronic pain you experienced before & how it got better? My issue is being LIT UP with trigger points in my muscle (I also partially tore my bicep). Did you gain muscle mass rapidly?


As a guy who also went on TRT around your age, I'd just encourage you to reconcile the long-term commitment of TRT in your mind before you dive in.  Personally, I began TRT, decided I wanted to taper off (which ended up resulting in about a year of just tough times and over analyzing everything from lab tests to supplementation to lifestyle), and then finally ended up back on TRT.

TRT has been great for me - ED all but disappears when my levels are dialed in, and energy/focus is typically solid - but it took awhile to get it right, and even longer to accept the commitment (really, lifelong) that TRT entails.  Glad to hear you have linked up with Defy, as I am confident that they will expedite what could otherwise be an exceedingly drawn out process of trial and error.  One analogy to keep in mind - going on TRT is like switching over to a stick shift from an automatic.  Great if your automatic transmission was shit to begin with, but it definitely requires more awareness and work than the alternative.

Also, as a young guy, I would highly encourage you to bank some sperm before you go on TRT.  I banked some when I tapered off years ago and, now that I am in a relationship where kids are a possibility, am glad that I did.

Best of luck, and definitely let us know how things progress for you.

Hey brother - absolutely thank you! I have tried EVERYTHING (aside thyroid + DHEA) under the sun the past 2.5 years to get my T optimized without going into TRT. This is by no means a rash decision & something i'm still weighing - i totally understand the commitment. I just dont know if DHEA + thyroid meds will boost my T up to something respectable. I suspect i've had low T/thyroid issues for a while as i've honestly built like 0 muscle in 7 years lifting + the sexual stuff.

Will do for the sperm - I will be using HCG if I decide to jump into TRT.
about the sperm thing. I知 not saying at all not to bank sperm. It痴 always a great insurance. I did trt a few years ago no hcg. Did a clomid restart and then was natural low t for 5 years. I conceived my first child  at 35 and wife is due in 2 weeks. Also many people have conceived on trt with. I hcg. I have a friend who abuses steroids and never does pct and he was able to conceive. Just food for thought.

I also struggled and struggle with the long term thought of trt at 35. But I was just never able to get my levels up naturally. And I had a few failed clomid restarts. I took the plung again into trt. And thanks to this site I知 learning to really be patient. I知 4 months in and very minor improvements. But many say it can take much longer so I知 going for it and I know from previous experience I can get back to my old crappy baseline with clomid.

True - the likelihood of infertility on TRT is low - but given my FSH was 1.1 before clomid - the likelihood of fertility off TRT & hypogonadal is probably similar. Nonetheless - an insurance policy doesn't hurt. Still really conflicted on this. Part of me wants to load that needle & part of my wants to give the thyroid + DHEA 4-6 weeks whilst off clomid! I do react pretty well to clomid - it's just a bit inconsistent, have SOME eye issues, my liver values have rapidly gone up on it, my SHBG goes through the roof (while its naturally high) & its synthetic as opposed to TRT which is a hormone. I'd rather do TRT & get the anabolic benefits (soo hard for me to build muscle) + consistent quality of life stuff once getting dialed in. Sure, injections will be a literal pain in the ass but for the most part of the last 3 or so years - id stick a needle in me EVERY DAY to beat what i've been dealing with. Just concerned with fixing hypothyroid + my SHBG going up even higher.

It couldn't hurt to try the DHEA + Thyroid just to see.  4-6 weeks of due diligence would certainly be a logical step before committing to TRT.

If you do end up on TRT, I highly recommend some version Nelson Vergel's protocol/injection method: https://www.excelmale.com/showthread.php?9055-Nelson-Vergel-s-Testosterone-plus-HCG-Protocol

I personally use this injection method, and a variation of this protocol - nearly painless, and very convenient.

How long after stopping clomid would it be good to get labs to check? 2 weeks ago I took 37.5 mg & I took my last 12.5 on Sunday.

Good Q - not entirely sure to be honest.  I believe I checked mine about 6 weeks after stopping Clomid.

8
Ask your doc, but I don't see why you would have to wait.  TRT is so strongly suppressive of LH signaling, that it is doubtful that the clomid would do much of anything, even if taken simultaneously with TRT (which is why we take low-dose HCG, and not clomid, with TRT).  However, any side effects from the clomid itself might linger as the drug clears out.

BTW, low muscle mass, chronic pain and procrastination all improved for me, once I got on TRT.  The anabolic effect was the most impressive thing (probably since I had low testosterone since puberty).  So if you already know what you are doing with diet and exercise, you could have a really impressive response in the gym.


Yeah. I don't really get any sides from clomid. I might see if I can produce on my own with the thyroid stuff.

Can you talk about the chronic pain you experienced before & how it got better? My issue is being LIT UP with trigger points in my muscle (I also partially tore my bicep). Did you gain muscle mass rapidly?


As a guy who also went on TRT around your age, I'd just encourage you to reconcile the long-term commitment of TRT in your mind before you dive in.  Personally, I began TRT, decided I wanted to taper off (which ended up resulting in about a year of just tough times and over analyzing everything from lab tests to supplementation to lifestyle), and then finally ended up back on TRT.

TRT has been great for me - ED all but disappears when my levels are dialed in, and energy/focus is typically solid - but it took awhile to get it right, and even longer to accept the commitment (really, lifelong) that TRT entails.  Glad to hear you have linked up with Defy, as I am confident that they will expedite what could otherwise be an exceedingly drawn out process of trial and error.  One analogy to keep in mind - going on TRT is like switching over to a stick shift from an automatic.  Great if your automatic transmission was shit to begin with, but it definitely requires more awareness and work than the alternative.

Also, as a young guy, I would highly encourage you to bank some sperm before you go on TRT.  I banked some when I tapered off years ago and, now that I am in a relationship where kids are a possibility, am glad that I did.

Best of luck, and definitely let us know how things progress for you.

Hey brother - absolutely thank you! I have tried EVERYTHING (aside thyroid + DHEA) under the sun the past 2.5 years to get my T optimized without going into TRT. This is by no means a rash decision & something i'm still weighing - i totally understand the commitment. I just dont know if DHEA + thyroid meds will boost my T up to something respectable. I suspect i've had low T/thyroid issues for a while as i've honestly built like 0 muscle in 7 years lifting + the sexual stuff.

Will do for the sperm - I will be using HCG if I decide to jump into TRT.
about the sperm thing. I知 not saying at all not to bank sperm. It痴 always a great insurance. I did trt a few years ago no hcg. Did a clomid restart and then was natural low t for 5 years. I conceived my first child  at 35 and wife is due in 2 weeks. Also many people have conceived on trt with. I hcg. I have a friend who abuses steroids and never does pct and he was able to conceive. Just food for thought.

I also struggled and struggle with the long term thought of trt at 35. But I was just never able to get my levels up naturally. And I had a few failed clomid restarts. I took the plung again into trt. And thanks to this site I知 learning to really be patient. I知 4 months in and very minor improvements. But many say it can take much longer so I知 going for it and I know from previous experience I can get back to my old crappy baseline with clomid.

True - the likelihood of infertility on TRT is low - but given my FSH was 1.1 before clomid - the likelihood of fertility off TRT & hypogonadal is probably similar. Nonetheless - an insurance policy doesn't hurt. Still really conflicted on this. Part of me wants to load that needle & part of my wants to give the thyroid + DHEA 4-6 weeks whilst off clomid! I do react pretty well to clomid - it's just a bit inconsistent, have SOME eye issues, my liver values have rapidly gone up on it, my SHBG goes through the roof (while its naturally high) & its synthetic as opposed to TRT which is a hormone. I'd rather do TRT & get the anabolic benefits (soo hard for me to build muscle) + consistent quality of life stuff once getting dialed in. Sure, injections will be a literal pain in the ass but for the most part of the last 3 or so years - id stick a needle in me EVERY DAY to beat what i've been dealing with. Just concerned with fixing hypothyroid + my SHBG going up even higher.

It couldn't hurt to try the DHEA + Thyroid just to see.  4-6 weeks of due diligence would certainly be a logical step before committing to TRT.

If you do end up on TRT, I highly recommend some version Nelson Vergel's protocol/injection method: https://www.excelmale.com/showthread.php?9055-Nelson-Vergel-s-Testosterone-plus-HCG-Protocol

I personally use this injection method, and a variation of this protocol - nearly painless, and very convenient.

9
Testosterone, Hormones and General Men's Health / Re: Coming off TRT
« on: January 21, 2018, 09:25:56 pm »
Before I say anything, I would like to wish my condolences to Lee Myers friends and family. He was such a great man and really helped many live better lives.

Wish that said, I was thinking about going on an trt+hcg protocol. If I were to go on a protocol like this, what are my chances that I would be able to come off it in a couples years with clomid to restart my hpta in case I wasn't happy with the results.

I have come off of TRT, and my labs returned to their initial levels fairly swiftly thereafter.  Keep in mind, it can be a pain as your body adjusts from higher serum T levels to your natural levels again.  In my experience this exacerbated low T symptoms until my body got used to the new normal.

That said, I really do recommend considering the commitment that TRT requires in order to be effective.  It can take months to feel the benefits of protocol changes and, in most cases, is a lifelong commitment.  As I mentioned in another post recently, I would also recommend banking sperm beforehand if you want to preserve the option of having children in the future - as others have mentioned, it is entirely possible to have children while on TRT (especially T + HCG), but better safe than sorry.

10
Ask your doc, but I don't see why you would have to wait.  TRT is so strongly suppressive of LH signaling, that it is doubtful that the clomid would do much of anything, even if taken simultaneously with TRT (which is why we take low-dose HCG, and not clomid, with TRT).  However, any side effects from the clomid itself might linger as the drug clears out.

BTW, low muscle mass, chronic pain and procrastination all improved for me, once I got on TRT.  The anabolic effect was the most impressive thing (probably since I had low testosterone since puberty).  So if you already know what you are doing with diet and exercise, you could have a really impressive response in the gym.


Yeah. I don't really get any sides from clomid. I might see if I can produce on my own with the thyroid stuff.

Can you talk about the chronic pain you experienced before & how it got better? My issue is being LIT UP with trigger points in my muscle (I also partially tore my bicep). Did you gain muscle mass rapidly?

As a guy who also went on TRT around your age, I'd just encourage you to reconcile the long-term commitment of TRT in your mind before you dive in.  Personally, I began TRT, decided I wanted to taper off (which ended up resulting in about a year of just tough times and over analyzing everything from lab tests to supplementation to lifestyle), and then finally ended up back on TRT.

TRT has been great for me - ED all but disappears when my levels are dialed in, and energy/focus is typically solid - but it took awhile to get it right, and even longer to accept the commitment (really, lifelong) that TRT entails.  Glad to hear you have linked up with Defy, as I am confident that they will expedite what could otherwise be an exceedingly drawn out process of trial and error.  One analogy to keep in mind - going on TRT is like switching over to a stick shift from an automatic.  Great if your automatic transmission was shit to begin with, but it definitely requires more awareness and work than the alternative.

Also, as a young guy, I would highly encourage you to bank some sperm before you go on TRT.  I banked some when I tapered off years ago and, now that I am in a relationship where kids are a possibility, am glad that I did.

Best of luck, and definitely let us know how things progress for you.

Hey brother - absolutely thank you! I have tried EVERYTHING (aside thyroid + DHEA) under the sun the past 2.5 years to get my T optimized without going into TRT. This is by no means a rash decision & something i'm still weighing - i totally understand the commitment. I just dont know if DHEA + thyroid meds will boost my T up to something respectable. I suspect i've had low T/thyroid issues for a while as i've honestly built like 0 muscle in 7 years lifting + the sexual stuff.

Will do for the sperm - I will be using HCG if I decide to jump into TRT.

Right on - sounds like you've really thought it through, and I'm glad that you're linked up with Defy as I know with certainty that they will take great care of you. 

11
Ask your doc, but I don't see why you would have to wait.  TRT is so strongly suppressive of LH signaling, that it is doubtful that the clomid would do much of anything, even if taken simultaneously with TRT (which is why we take low-dose HCG, and not clomid, with TRT).  However, any side effects from the clomid itself might linger as the drug clears out.

BTW, low muscle mass, chronic pain and procrastination all improved for me, once I got on TRT.  The anabolic effect was the most impressive thing (probably since I had low testosterone since puberty).  So if you already know what you are doing with diet and exercise, you could have a really impressive response in the gym.


Yeah. I don't really get any sides from clomid. I might see if I can produce on my own with the thyroid stuff.

Can you talk about the chronic pain you experienced before & how it got better? My issue is being LIT UP with trigger points in my muscle (I also partially tore my bicep). Did you gain muscle mass rapidly?

As a guy who also went on TRT around your age, I'd just encourage you to reconcile the long-term commitment of TRT in your mind before you dive in.  Personally, I began TRT, decided I wanted to taper off (which ended up resulting in about a year of just tough times and over analyzing everything from lab tests to supplementation to lifestyle), and then finally ended up back on TRT.

TRT has been great for me - ED all but disappears when my levels are dialed in, and energy/focus is typically solid - but it took awhile to get it right, and even longer to accept the commitment (really, lifelong) that TRT entails.  Glad to hear you have linked up with Defy, as I am confident that they will expedite what could otherwise be an exceedingly drawn out process of trial and error.  One analogy to keep in mind - going on TRT is like switching over to a stick shift from an automatic.  Great if your automatic transmission was shit to begin with, but it definitely requires more awareness and work than the alternative.

Also, as a young guy, I would highly encourage you to bank some sperm before you go on TRT.  I banked some when I tapered off years ago and, now that I am in a relationship where kids are a possibility, am glad that I did.

Best of luck, and definitely let us know how things progress for you.

12
Just a follow up - called Empower this morning and talked to one of their pharmacists (who was very helpful).

I recently noticed that the vial I was prescribed in October had a November expiration date.  I had been finishing a previous vial, and so didn't switch over onto the new vial/mix the new vial until late November-ish.  Having spoken with the pharmacist, I am thinking that having (unintentionally) waited to start this new vial until near its 'discard by' date may be the culprit.

Unsure how compounded HCG holds up to Pregnyl-brand HCG in terms of dry storage, but I'm guessing that since compounding pharmacies seem to use fewer preservatives/fillers, that my prolonged dry storage of this compounded prescription may have caused the potency to decrease prior to mixing.

Interestingly enough, the Empower pharmacist mentioned that they are exploring additional testing to extend their discard by dates.

13
It isn't often that so many folks connect so closely with an individual they meet on the internet.  Peak's work through this site helped me, and I know countless others, through what is an incredibly difficult time in any man's life.  He truly left a mark on this world.

We'll miss you Peak.

Nelson, if there is any way to be a support to Peak's family in this time please let us know.

14
Hey All -

Back in September my lab results were:

Protocol: 40mg T Cyp 2x/week IM; 400iu HCG 2x/week IM; Metabolic Maintenance Complex (100mg DIM, 100mg CDG) 1x/day; Vitamin D 8000 iu/Day; Fish Oil 2g/Day

Testosterone, Total: 1385ng/dL
Free Testosterone: 28.9 pg/mL
SHBG: 53.6 pg/mL (16.5-55.9 range) - curious why this is so high
E2, Sensitive: 46.1 pg/mL (8.0-35.0 range)
PSA: 1.3ng/mL (0.0-4.0 range)
TSH: 2.040 uIU/mL (.0450-4.500 range)
DHEA-S: 311.1 ug/dL (138.5-475.2 range)

Had labs redrawn this month (same protocol except switched to Empower Pharmacy for Test Cyp and HCG and added + .125mg adex 2x/week in place of DIM/CDG):

Protocol: 40mg T Cyp 2x/week IM; 400iu HCG 2x/week IM; .125mg adex 2x/week; Vitamin D 8000 iu/Day; Fish Oil 2g/Day

Testosterone, Total: 687 ng/dL
Free Testosterone: 15.1 pg/mL
SHBG: 41.4 pg/mL (16.5-55.9 range)
E2, Sensitive: 19.8 pg/mL (8.0-35.0 range)
PSA: 1.5ng/mL (0.0-4.0 range)
TSH: 1.880 uIU/mL (.0450-4.500 range)
DHEA-S: 250.3 ug/dL (138.5-475.2 range)

As you can see, pretty similar protocol except I switched to Empower for my pharmacy and added in the Adex.  Has anyone had a similar experience whens switching over to empower?  Especially curious if switching from brand name pregnyl to Empower compounded HCG could have caused such a significant fluctuation.

What did your Doctor say?? That seems kind of crazy to me....

Nothing yet, scheduled with my Doc at Defy for next week (literally just got these results last night). 

15
Kind of surprising to see testosterone levels cut in half for no apparent reason. This is one case where it's useful to have directly-measured free testosterone, because it backs up the total figures, meaning the change probably is not due to lab error. How long had you been on the protocol prior to the first set of measurements? If you were pretty new to it then there could have been some stabilization since then, though that's kind of dramatic. Otherwise you might question the consistency of the testosterone or hCG.

I'd been on the same protocol (except with Depo-T and Pregnyl) and stable for about 1.5 years before switching over to Empower products, so it was definitely a surprise. 

Had noticed that my testicles had not been feeling quite as full as they had before, and erectile dysfunction had begun to occur again after having been resolved for the most part, but just chalked it up to lots of travel and work taking a toll.


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