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As far as I know it's not a problem at these normal doses. It's the transdermal meds that require extra caution...
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Going back to hcg and trt , at least I tried
Do you have any interest in gonadorelin? In my case it worked to promote LH production even though I was on both TRT and hCG. I did use enclomiphene concurrently. What's still unclear is whether or not single daily doses are sufficient.
In hindsight maybe it's better to start with gonadorelin and then add kisspeptin after LH production is confirmed. Then after some time the gonadorelin could be phased out to see if the kisspeptin alone would sustain the gonadotropins.
My docs continue to forbid HCG. I have testes with a volume under 5 mL now. The atrophy is pretty severe and my fertility is getting screwed over. I went to three different clinics and no doctors will allow HCG even with urology doctors. I tried seeing a female doctor that works with fertility concerns and she is the only one who said she’d look into it.
I’m just hoping for the best. My FSH and LH are very low. My SHBG is basically near zero. My prolactin is mildly/moderately elevated in the 40-50 range, yet no docs will try any dopamine agonists. The docs won’t test to see if I’m E2 sensitive (without a good reason) and they also tell me my hematocrit is high from my TRT and that my testosterone total level at 396 ng/dL is “doing great.”
Update:
Day 30 of 100 mcg kisspeptin 10 daily with my normal trt dose (14mg daily).
Don’t feel much different than day 16 where my LH was zero. Still feel tired, somewhat depressed in a sense. Last 3 weeks felt like I was coming down with a cold but never got it. Testicles may be a little bigger but I didn’t have sex in a week as busy and wife is having GI issues.
Not sure what to do.
Press on but if this is how I am going to feel, I felt much better on trt plus hcg. Is it even worth continuing because even if my LH is elevated, I feel so fatigued and it’s not worth it. Or maybe I feel better in the next few weeks?
I’m a professional (not sports) so I know my performance at work and at home with my kids is not 100%. Any insights appreciated, esp Cat
Do you have any blood test levels indicating an increase in LH and FSH at around the day 30 point?
I did not get labs cause my thoughts were that even if my LH is high, what’s the difference if I feel like crap?
Fair comment, though with the labs it may provide an insight as to what other additions and treatments may ameliorate the crap feeling.
Update:
Day 30 of 100 mcg kisspeptin 10 daily with my normal trt dose (14mg daily).
Don’t feel much different than day 16 where my LH was zero. Still feel tired, somewhat depressed in a sense. Last 3 weeks felt like I was coming down with a cold but never got it. Testicles may be a little bigger but I didn’t have sex in a week as busy and wife is having GI issues.
Not sure what to do.
Press on but if this is how I am going to feel, I felt much better on trt plus hcg. Is it even worth continuing because even if my LH is elevated, I feel so fatigued and it’s not worth it. Or maybe I feel better in the next few weeks?
I’m a professional (not sports) so I know my performance at work and at home with my kids is not 100%. Any insights appreciated, esp Cat
Do you have any blood test levels indicating an increase in LH and FSH at around the day 30 point?
It's too soon to be discouraged. For LH to rise both the hypothalamus and pituitary must "wake up" and start doing their thing.
I think you said you're injecting 90 mg a week of testosterone cypionate. How many injections and when are you getting lab work done relative to the injections?
Thanks for the info
What if I lowered my dose of test to half of that for a while?
I just feel so tired so I wanted to increase my test dose but I know that would be counterproductive for my LH
Daily SQ injections, 13 mg at 9 pm with the kisspeptin
Labs done around noon
So this testosterone dose is putting your serum level close to 700 ng/dL? I'm trying to get a sense of how suppressive this is likely to be. I have some preliminary indications that suppression at the pituitary may not be so bad compared to suppression at the hypothalamus. As a test I stopped taking enclomiphene about three weeks back. I lowered my testosterone dose to aid this, but my predicted peak testosterone is still about 700 ng/dL. So far I have not lost the subjective benefits of GnRH therapy and there's been no noticeable reduction in testicular volume. I will probably get lab tests in the next week or so to see if LH is still reasonable. If I do see a significant reduction in LH then it has broader implications, suggesting that in general SERM use will be necessary with these upstream hormone replacement therapies.
There's another way you might improve your odds of success. I've discussed other possible benefits of using a propionate/cypionate combination in place of cypionate. It is also possible that having daily periods with lower testosterone will be helpful in reducing the suppressive effects of the exogenous testosterone. Because you're already injecting daily it might not be too inconvenient, unless injecting immediately after waking is a problem.
It's too soon to be discouraged. For LH to rise both the hypothalamus and pituitary must "wake up" and start doing their thing.Daily SQ injections, 13 mg at 9 pm with the kisspeptin
I think you said you're injecting 90 mg a week of testosterone cypionate. How many injections and when are you getting lab work done relative to the injections?
I had to look back at my results with gonadorelin to be reminded of how long it took to have non-negligible LH. It occurred somewhere between 30 and 50 days into the trial. You're younger and haven't been suppressed as long, so maybe you'll see results sooner. I forget, did you get a baseline for LH to confirm full suppression?
The protocol is a tradeoff between convenience and approximating what's natural; the more frequent—and smaller—the injections, the more natural. I'm sure infrequent, large doses will do something. What's unclear is if these are sufficient to achieve good subjective results. Your trial may help our understanding.QuoteKisspeptin-producing cells reside in two distinct hypothalamic regions, the anteroventral periventricular nucleus and the arcuate nucleus, and extend their neurites adjacent to axon terminals and cell bodies of GnRH neurons (15, 18). Notably, kisspeptin release in the stalk-median eminence is pulsatile and exhibits a strong correlation with GnRH pulses (20). Furthermore, pulsatile kisspeptin administration drives gonadotropin secretion in juvenile male monkeys primed with GnRH. However, continuous administration of kisspeptin abolishes gonadotropin secretion after an acute stimulatory effect, presumably owing to receptor desensitization (21⇓–23). Thus, kisspeptin may participate in GnRH pulse generation, although the underlying mechanisms remain elusive (24, 25).[R]
This newer work has a lot more detail on how things may work with kisspeptin, but it's not light reading.QuoteThese simulations have several implications. (i) No pulsatile release of GnRH occurs in the absence of kisspeptin. (ii) Kisspeptin pulses applied every 8 minutes induce 8-minute calcium oscillations in GnRH neurons and large release of GnRH every 45 to 60 minutes [Fig. 9(a)–9(c)]. (iii) Kisspeptin pulsatility is necessary to induce pulsatile GnRH release but is not sufficient.
