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Messages - seppuku

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I notice that your prolactin is borderline elevated (~14 ng/mL). Have you had this result before? If it's repeatable it might be worth looking into. My understanding is that the test should be done after >24-hour abstinence from sex and at least a 12 hour fast.

Well i was fasted (12hrs)  and no sex (that part mainly because of the psa test). Could that level of prolactin cause such a low level of testosterone though Cataceous?  Bare in mind when my LH was over 8 on on my first test while on clomid, my testosterone was even then only in the low 300's.  I do use ghb if i wake up in the night, or just before i go to bed (ghb can raise prolactin temporarily).  But even if i took measures to lower the prolactin, could i expect my testosterone to move up to a healthy level?  Right now it would need to be four times higher to be at an ideal place!

Hey guys. Just thought i'd update my status by showing you my results from a blood draw done two days ago. I've been pretty much off serms now for a few weeks (i had a small, 12.5mg piece of clomid around two weeks before this test. I'd also had a few days two weeks before where i took 25mg proviron to try and help boost me through work
I'm just after opinions really....

GLOBULIN                      26.1 g/L       19.00 - 35.00

Iron Status
FERRITIN                      339 ug/L      30.00 - 400.00

Cholesterol Status
TRIGLYCERIDES                 1.65 mmol/L    0.00 - 2.30
CHOLESTEROL                  *5.7 mmol/L    0.00 - 4.99
HDL CHOLESTEROL               1.17 mmol/L    0.90 - 1.50
LDL CHOLESTEROL              *3.78 mmol/L    0.00 - 3.00
NON-HDL CHOLESTEROL          *4.53 mmol/L    0.00 - 3.89

Heart Disease Risk
HDL % OF TOTAL                20.53%         20.00 - 100.00


Thyroid Function
FREE T3                       4.9            pmol/L    3.10 - 6.80
FREE THYROXINE      13.000 pmol/L    12.00 - 22.00
THYROID STIMULATING HORMONE   2.29 mIU/L     0.27 - 4.20


TESTOSTERONE        *6.04 nmol/L    7.60 - 31.40
FREE-TESTOSTERONE(CALCULATED)  *0.125  nmol/L    0.30 - 1.00
17-BETA OESTRADIOL            54.4 pmol/L    41.00 - 159.00
SEX HORMONE BINDING GLOB      26.9 nmol/L    16.00 - 55.00
PROLACTIN     308 mIU/L     86.00 - 324.00
FOLLICLE STIM. HORMONE        6.28 IU/L      1.50 - 12.40
LUTEINISING HORMONE      3.39 IU/L      1.70 - 8.60

Prostate Screen
PROSTATE SPECIFIC AG(TOTAL)   1.03  ug/L      0.00 - 2.00

That 6.04 nmol/l testosterone by the was is 174 ng/dl in U.S. terminology

Testosterone, Hormones and General Men's Health / Re: Anhedonic Af
« on: September 17, 2018, 11:42:07 am »
My suggestion to you would be exercise. Nothing feels as good as having just finished a hard workout. Even walking as long as it's brisk would do the trick, put in some kind of challenge like doing the same route but always trying to beat your last time to complete it.

Let me add a caveat, which we've discussed here in the forum: If there's an underlying process causing a reduction in natural testosterone production, then this can progress while a guy is on TRT; it will simply be masked. Later, if the guy comes off TRT he finds his new baseline is lower, and he may wrongly blame TRT for the loss. So if you are developing primary hypogonadism then the underlying condition could worsen while you're on TRT, but it would likely worsen without TRT too.

Ok, well now i'm worried again!!  Other than a varicocele (and of course aging), i don't know of what else could be the culprit (when it's primary).  And again, i'd be wasting my time asking an nhs doc as they're not interested.

Although you seem to tolerate low testosterone better than average, I'd think there are still health risks in leaving it there. I haven't seen much evidence that a permanent shutdown is likely when stopping TRT. There have been some anecdotes, but we've seen a reasonable number of guys on the forum say they'd returned to baseline without doing anything special.

Thank you Cataceous, that's quite reasuring to read.

Are you still unsure about TRT, or is it just a question of how to do it affordably?

I'm unsure as to whether or not i should start trt.  If i do it, it's going to be unsupervised, with black market testosterone.  I've no faith in the nhs when it comes to this, and i'd want testosterone enanthate which they don't use. Going private wouldn't be much better, they all seem to use the same as the nhs (Sustanon 250 or gels), they cost a lot, and i can get my own blood tests through Medichecks.  The thought that i could completely shut myself down permanently if it i wanted to come off also worries me a bit.

While it's possible that your diurnal variation is different from the usual, I haven't seen such cases described. Is it difficult to be tested at a time you're feeling better? Nonetheless, your numbers are kind of low even for a trough (TT: 227 ng/dL, FT: 5 ng/dL). In addition, based on your age you now have reduced diurnal variation. For example: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4501456/

Thanks for replying Cataceous. I had all my tests done early as that's what's always recommended.  I'd have another later in the day, but to be honest it's probably unlikely to triple, and it's already cost me a bomb.  As ever, i'm not sure what my next move should be. 

Hi all,

I've had a few (private, not nhs)  blood tests recently, sll coming back low.
I'm now wondering if i'm actually having them done when my test levels are lowest, as to be honest I feel my worst when i wake up in the morning and brighten up a few hours into the day.
My latest  blood draw, taken at 9am came back at 7.86 nmol/l (range 7.6 - 31.4). My LH was 8.4 IU/L, and my shbg was 25.5 nmol/l.
I'd stopped the clomid weeks before, but i'd taken a very small amount of nolvadex (5mg) the week before on a day i was feeling a bit rough.
I guess my question is, is early morning always the best time to draw blood for a testosterone test? Or am i just avoiding the inevitable?

Just to keep things up to date - took a blood test for testosterone and LH, on 6th Aug, several weeks after stopping clomid.

Testosterone dropped to 8.68nmol/l, down from 11.7nmol/l when on clomid (250ng/dl down from 337ng/dl).

LH on clomid had been 8.1 iu/l
LH off clomid now 4.28 iu/l

Still clueless as to my next move. The NHS are still out as even that 8.68 nmol/l (250 ng/dl) is too high. Private clinics cost too much, and none of them provide test e which i'd rather (for some reason this country prefers sustanon 250 or gels). 
I've bought some alpha lipoic acid, with the intention of seeing if it can reduce ROS (reactive oxygen species) within the testicle and perhaps help them produce more testosterone. It's a long shot I know, but it's either that or self treat with underground lab test e off the web.

Where are you specifically located?
I'd use the search function on ExcelMale and see if you can find a competent doc close enough to see and treat you.

Thanks Sean - i've actually put my story on excelmale this morning, and one of the guys recommended a private clinic in Dorset. It's a long way from me, but after work i'm going to have a look at the web site. I was really hoping i could avoid having to go on trt to be honest, that maybe i'd missed something that could be causing this (ie, thyroid, varicoles, things like that)

In theory you could first confirm reduced testicular function with an hCG stimulation test. Or alternatively try a slightly higher dose of Clomid to see whether LH will go any higher without an improvement in testosterone. Or just throw in the towel and move to TRT, ideally with low doses of hCG included, as you still have some testicular function, and there may be other benefits.

Thanks Cataceous, i appreciate your input here. I'm actually finding this quite scary, it's not like i can just pop in to see my gp and he'll be like "hey no problem, lets sort this all out for you". I'm not at castrate levels, they don't care, been there, done that. But i also can't just keep paying for the private tests every time i tinker with something, they're more a twice a year type thing on my buget. I'm just so confused now, i know a lot about secondary hypo treatment, i never thought i'd be dealing with primary failure. Anyone else want to chip in?

I'll try and keep my story brief. Currently 46 years old, nearly 47. Got my testosterone levels checked around 6 years ago - they were low "normal" (lol!). Two tests were around the low 300's if we're talking ng/dl.  This is in the U.K, on the nhs. I self medicated with low dose clomid, around this time it was really picking up as an alternative therapy to trt. After only a few 12.5mg doses, i got called back for another test - it came back at around 21 nmol/l (low 600's in ng/dl). I didn't tell my doctor what i'd taken, and i continued to take clomid at 12.5mg eod up till now.
Recently, i decided i wanted to get my levels checked as for about 6 - 9 months my libido's been low and i've just not been myself so to speak. I used a private medical company instead of begging my nhs doc (i used Medichecks). Just testosterone as it was on offer. My level was 11.7 nmol/l, (range being 7.6 - 31).  Obviously, without LH etc, this tells very little, so this Monday i had a more comprehensive test done. I had assumed that the clomid had stopped working - it hadn't. My second test had my testosterone the same at 11.7nmol/l (337ng/dl).  My LH though, was 8.1 iu/l (range 1.7 - 8.6), so near the top end of range. I really wasn't expecting that, it's pointing towards primary.
Guys, what would you do now?  I can tell you now that the nhs will not treat this, i don't even see any point in going to see my doc, they're clueless. I have some underground test enanthate i bought a few years back when i thought i might diy trt.  I know that's not ideal though, but i'm at a loss as to whatelse i can do. SHBG was 32.9nmol/l (range 16 - 55), calculated free test was 0.232nmol/l.  Guys, what should my next move be?

He could buy it online but will a doctor be willing to follow him for lab work and to see how he is doing since it was not prescribed by the provider?

Private lab test. They're not cheap, but they're not exactly expensive either.  I've just two weeks ago had to do this, and it's just as well i did.  It's shown that after around five years on low dose clomid, which originally had doubled my testosterone, it's now stopped working.  Had a second test this Monday, just waiting for the results to come in.

HCG will make your lh and fsh even lower, to raise them you need a short course of a serm like clomid or nolvadex.  If it was me and doctors weren't helping, i'd get some online or from a gym.  Not medical advise, just what i'd do.

Okay.  From who/whom though could help me get clomid or nolvadex short term?  What kind of healthcare professional?  I'm not buying things off the internet.  I don't trust that methodology or illegal buying of Rx meds.  I refuse to do that.

Well i think you've answered your own question then. Either get it from your doctor, or do without and continue suffering. I'm glad i don't have your legal moral dilemmas!!

Just so I understand,  the idea is that while most medical doctors, and even specialists loke endocrinologist’s and even dedicated experts in hormkne replacyfind it difficult to properly treat Hormone replacement.

Self medicating cheaply will have exactly what percentage of chance of being successful?

*** No idea, but i imagine a greater percentage than those doing nothing to help themselves.

And just how does one go about obtaining medications that mostly require a prescription from a licensed professional?

*** Importing from an online vendor, or directly from a gym that has a lot of very large muscled members

I am not doubting the desire to feel better when going through hell. But there are countless men that come to this site feeling wven worse because of either incompetent doctors or attempts at self medicating.

So with limited funds, what would you suggest would be a better solution?  Clomid and nolvadex aren't crack cocaine, i don't think you'd get in much trouble if caught purchasing them.

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