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Messages - seppuku

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Why would anyone be put on trt with an initial level of 585? This all sounds more like "going on steroids" than hrt, or have i missed something?

Thanks for the quick reply Peak. Your approach sounds very sensible, and i know what you mean about some people (on other forums i've read) going on many meds due to trying to max out test levels (meds to reduce shbg, additional hcg, transdermal pregnenolone etc). I was just curious if when on exogenous testosterone the testicles 'disappear'.
As to the subq - just liked the idea you could pretty much use an insulin needle to administer it. I work with a guy who takes steroid dosages (like a gram of test and more). He asked me to give him his shot once, so out of intetest i did (IM injection). I was shaking and so was he!!


Sorry to go a bit off topic, but i loved reading your story and had a couple of questions for you. First, i notice no hcg in your protocol. Have you noticed much testicle shrinkage on the dosages you are using? Also, seeing as subq injections seem all the rage right now (and sound less painful), have you considered them? Just curious as i'm back in for my third blood draw next week (first was low 300's, second was mid 200's), and i'm supposed to be seeing an endo soon. I'm sure he'll tell me i'm "in range", but i'm just preparing myself in case he/she actually think i need treatment.

Don't forget to balance with vitamin A, they are synergistic. And that's REAL vitamin A, not beta carotene. Also, each protects against toxicity of the other when dosing high.

Testosterone, Hormones and General Men's Health / Re: Gobsmacked!!!!
« on: June 04, 2013, 06:54:34 pm »
Hi peak. I don't think the doc herself would suggest i have any of the treatments in particular, she'd just take advice from whichever endo i end up being refered to. From what i could gather though, she has patients see her who are on various methods of treatment. I guess it would be all down to the specialist though. I'm still hoping my 3rd blood draw will miraculously show a level of something over 600, haha! I don't want to believe the years of physical training, and the many years of my youth (from 9 to 21 years old) i spent training and competing in martial arts has rewarded me with low testosterone. It's the "manhood" hormone, accepting it's not right feels like getting a diagnosis of "not manly". Incidently, just been watching dr.Crislers vids again on youtube. He really, really seems to like gels - odd since he himself injects, but he really pushes them in the vid.

With regards to whey - i'm all ears here as i use tons of it. Never on its own, usually mixed with milk protein concentrate, or both in with yogurt. What do you know?

Testosterone, Hormones and General Men's Health / Re: Gobsmacked!!!!
« on: June 04, 2013, 05:40:42 pm »
Hi all,

Just thought i'd give you some follow up info regarding my blood test. You may remember (it's written in the top post) that i had a blood draw taken about midday that came back at 11.4nmol/l (329ng/dl). Well i had a second draw (plus cortisol) done on the 24th May. Today i went in for my results. This time i was even more shocked. Keep in mind i had taken d-aspartic acid for 12 days prior to this, which studies show should give about a 40% increase in total test after this time. And, this blood draw was done at 9:40am, so it was earlier. Well, new result = 9nmol/l (259ng/dl)!!! I'm so racked off, and just don't get it. My libido is pretty good (admittedly erections not always stay rock solid). My gym work is as good as ever. So i'm in for a third test, this one including fsh, lh, vit d and i asked for free test (not sure if she wrote that down though). Luckily my lady doc seems understanding though, asked all the relevant questions (morning erections, libido etc). She's sending me to see an endo. I said (this is the truth), i never wanted to get treatment, i just wanted to know my levels were high. I thought this would give me a mental boost. Well now this has done the opposite!!! Maybe working out actually LOWERS testosterone, i'm reading about so many weight trainers (often young) who are coming back low. Anyhow, i said to my doc i wasn't keen an gels if i had to be treated. She said she's got patients who achieve good numbers on it, but had no problems with me injecting test!! And that's from a quite elderly lady doc.

I fully agree there. Over the years just about every new must have supplement (that i've then bought) has had follow up studies to show either neutral or even negative effects. Today though, in anticipation of next weeks blood draw i've decided to take two to three heaped traspoons of desiccated, non-defatted argentine beef liver. Just because i know it's a great food, and well, you never know i might be missing one of its trace elements. I've also just eated some prunes with my protein shake (which has coconut milk and olve oil in). All super foods in my opinion.

Peak - thanks for that, my blood was drawn at approx 12pm. It was supposed to be 11:15, but there was a lot of hold ups in the surgery. Actually that's made me think - i was getting a bit stressed due to this, and i wasn't exactly looking forward to the actual blood draw either (i know, pussy!). Having read that things like being in the company of a hot woman, or looking at porn, and even watching your favorite team win a game can raise your test level (and i'm guessing this is an instant reaction) - could sitting in a long queue, 45min past your appointment getting frustrated and slightly anxious about having a needle shoved in you have the opposite effect? Just a thought..

@399 - I've been a supplement junkie for years, and at 41 i'm starting to wonder (regardless of studies) if they do anything. But, i take cod liver oil, extra vit d3, magnesium citrate, zinc citrate, vit c, low dose b complex, low dose sublingual dhea, creatine, brazil nuts (for selenium). Also on occasion use d aspartic acid, taurine ('studies' show it raises test, at least in rats), gingko, muccuna pruriens, deprenyl, low dose melatonin. And so on. Maybe my house would look better if i'd saved the money over the years. All this by the way is why i was expecting a mid to maybe high testosterone score. I wanted to know out of interest! I did think my thyroid might come back low though (it didn't). As to coping well with low test, i think it's more a case of if it's always been low(ish), then you wouldn't know how much better it would feel with higher levels.

Thanks mrmgoo, i'll print that file off and take it in when i get the results of my next test. I'm in for a repeat test next Friday. This time it's at 9:30, as i complained i had to wait till mid day last time (i believe diurnal rythmns of testosterone mean it could be lower after 12am). My tsh was ok actually, coming in at 2.0 i think (paperwork is in bedroom and wife's asleep).

Thanks for your speedy reply Peak, i've only just come back from the docs so i'm still in shock!! With regards to kids, i've bred two now and that's enough!! Being the nhs they only tested total t, not free. I wonder if that would have given a satisfactory result? Who knows. I was amazed i got a test at all from them! With regards to my weight lifting, it's taken me 20 years to get to that level! I'll read through those links you put, thanks. Maybe if my next test comes back low i could try some arimidex therapy (i can easily get that and clomid). Only thing is i doubt i could just turn up to my docs, explain i've been experimenting and ask for more tests to see if it was working! I'd have to go by feel (i tried some clomid last year (even though i had no clue of my levels - i know, irresponsible)), wasn't keen on the ed it gave me though (on any dosage, ie 12.5mg).  Just not sure whst to do now. I've felt for years i was lacking that certain 'umph' in my life. I think lifting weights acts as a way of overcompensating. I just have very little drive for anything else.

Sorry, using a phone to post is not easy, and i couldn't finish that last sentence. I meant to say i was so hoping my test level would come back actually high. I wanted the mental boost from knowing that. Instead it's done the opposite. Any input from others would be welcome, but i'm seriously considering self administration if my next test comes back low (knowing i'll get no joy from an nhs endo seeing as i'm in range). I even (lied) and said i was nodding off at work and have no interest in the wife. She said she's putting in a cortisol blood test in there too. Oh above i wrote 'dic' not 'doc'. Not sure now what's correct!

Testosterone, Hormones and General Men's Health / Gobsmacked!!!!
« on: May 08, 2013, 06:53:02 pm »
Ok. I'm a 41 year old male, in good muscular shape (at least i think) and have been weight lifting for over 20 years. Not superman, but i can do triples in the deadlift with weights in the mid 500 pounds. Bit of a belly but not much, my abs will show if i flex but there is some fat around them (i'm guessing i've probably got more visceral fat. Anyhow, while i was at the dics a couple of weeks ago on an unrelated matter, i asked if i could have some blood work done. She agreed (i told her i was feeling a bit run down), and put me down for a testosteone test plus thyroid, cholesterol etc. Well i went in today, expecting her to tell me my test was at lesst mid range maybe higher. I thought i'd get "oh your cholestrol is high", but no. All tests came back great except one (can you guess it?). My test level was 11.4nmol/l (i'm in the uk so for usa figures thats 329ng/dl. "That's fine" shes said, so i pointed out i'd read at my age it should be nearer 23.14 (667). She's going to let me have another test next week. I asked if i could see a uroligist if it's the same (she told me it would be an endo). She also said "they wont treat that you know". So. What am i to do?. My only option i can see is self administration by the needle. I was so hoping

I'm pretty sure the swimming one was done with rats. Liver is a superfood, no doubt.

I think anyone can consider their diet low carb if it has up to about 100grams of carbs a day. Keto diets are different of course in that they're lower (but i don't think any more beneficial for weigh loss). Ultimately though, carbs are needed to add muscle and recover. It's when you add them that counts. I'm using this newish idea of keeping carbs as low as posible during the day, and eating the majority in the evening (google the terms 'Carb Night' and 'Carb Backloading' to find out more). It's kind of backwards as to what has been advised in the past, ie keep carbs low in the evening, but to me makes more sense - low carb during the day when you're moving around more, so you're more likely to use body fat as fuel, then eat carbs at night when your body is resting and repairing. On workout days i eat about another 100gram carbs with a pro shake, total for the day being then about 200 grams. The only exception as to the timing of my carbs is when i'm working out midday, then it's after the workout and again a couple of hours later.

@JackAndy - I don't think with us having kids i'd want to take the risk in telling her.  She knows i'm very friendly with this woman, in fact she knows she buys me gifts on my birthday and at xmas because i have told her.  She just says "oh that's nice", isn't jealous in the slightest (and to be honest I think the reason i let her know is to try to get some kind of reaction from her). But if she thought I was having some kind of sexual affair with her, things could get nasty.

@PeakT - Regarding thyroid disease being treatable, well she is actually being treated for it and has been for years.  She's constantly monitored too, so i'm not totally sure what's going on there.  I think she likes to blame everything on her thyroid illness, for instance if she feels tired in the evening "it's my thyroid".  I've tried to explain to her that things like that and not feeling 'totally refreshed' after a nights sleep happen to people with normal thyroids too.  She considers us going out for the day walking around some town as exercise that requires a couple of days rest to recover from.  I've learnt a couple of things during my marriage that I find helpful to stick to. I try not to waste time arguing with her over things that don't directly affect me, and more importantly I NEVER apologise if we have argued and i've upset her.  If i do it's like admitting I was wrong (and she doesn't accept my apology).  If i don't apologise she eventually says sorry to me.  I will apologise to you now though, I realise i've just rambled on about my life story again and not kept on topic, so sorry for that!!

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