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Messages - doin it

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31

On the thread "Re: HGH Natural"
By Electrisio
March 12, 2018

Electrisio wrote:

"... Good question, I reckon it will to some degree. It seems ...
Hopes this helps!

References:
1.
2.
3. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9892846 "

This link was posted regarding HGH and NMDA, but there was a sentence in it that reminded me of this thread on excitatoxins (posted a while back).

"The increase in GH release after NMDA treatment cannot be explained through an increase in GHRH release, as the NMDA effect persisted in animals pretreated with GHRH antiserum

and in those neonatally injected with mono-sodium glutamate, a drug that destroys GHRH neurons."

This sentence from a scientific paper further vilifies MSG.

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So, the takeaway here is that if you want normal (whatever that is) Growth Hormone levels, stay away from MSG under all its names on food labels aka hydrolyzed vegetable protein, natural flavoring, vegetable protein, and spices, 12 to 60 % msg.
You would think that a food additive that was good for you would be proud of its name and not be disguised with so many names.



32

On the thread "Re: HGH Natural"
By Electrisio
March 12, 2018

Electrisio wrote:

"... Good question, I reckon it will to some degree. It seems ...
Hopes this helps!

References:
1.
2.
3. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9892846 "

This link was posted regarding HGH and NMDA, but there was a sentence in it that reminded me of this thread on excitatoxins (posted a while back).

"The increase in GH release after NMDA treatment cannot be explained through an increase in GHRH release, as the NMDA effect persisted in animals pretreated with GHRH antiserum

and in those neonatally injected with mono-sodium glutamate, a drug that destroys GHRH neurons."

This sentence from a scientific paper further vilifies MSG.


33
I cant tolerate beta hcg for some reason so the 3x per week fertility protocols are brutal for me.

Thanks.

------

Not to be nit-picky, but strickly speaking, I'm thinking that the "HCG" used in fertility/ LH therapy is composed of the alpha sub unit (LH and FSH mimic) AND the HCG-unique beta sub unit.

The beta sub unit by itself, I believe, is a tumor marker.


34
...  It may be difficult to be more definitive until he loses a lot of weight.
,,,

True, but:

...
Also wonderng how his high E2 fits in, the fat he is carrying must be aromatizing like crazy what little T he has.  ...

It fits the known mechanisms because fatty tissue has more aromatase. This produces more estradiol for the same level of circulating testosterone. Recall that total testosterone production is regulated in part by negative feedback from free estradiol. As a guy becomes more and more efficient in converting testosterone to estradiol it takes less testosterone production to activate the negative feedback. In other words, total testosterone can be a lot lower because the body sees that the estradiol level is already normal. Or turned around, the body only ramps up testosterone production when it thinks estradiol is falling below the desired level. This is a simplification, but gives the general idea.

Interesting. I really need to get on the ball with this weight loss.

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I would recommend that the task of losing 180+ lbs be done under a Doctor's guidance and care and maybe a Nutritionist.

Basically 1/2 your present body weight and complicated by your genetics as you said obesity runs in your family.

If you can, please give us status reports on your progress.

Good luck !

35


Lastly, I like to drink as well, so I'll not judge you!  But If you are drinking beer, you should switch to something less carby.  Vodka is better.

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You know Joe, I was never really sure If the "Sixpack" in your member name was a commentary on your stomach muscles or a reference to your proclivity for beer now I know it is not beer.  ;D ;D ;D

36
So if it were to be secondary, that would possibly mean that my obesity is a major contributor to my low t possibly?

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Have you done any genetic testing for obesity ?  Does it run in your family ?

Normally, fat aromatizes T to E2 which pushes SHBG up which lowers Free T.  The more fat, the more aromatization, and you have a lot of fat.  But, your SHBG is not high, so I would think obesity is not a factor in THAT way.  But there are other mechanisms in play...

37
I wouldn't say that LH value is high enough to call it primary hypogonadism. Not impossible, but secondary still seems much more likely.

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I would not disagree.  I guess I was thinking that since SHBG is mid range and LH  is above mid range, T should be higher so testicles, if operating properly, should be producing more T than is stated.  But yes, LH is not at the hammering level, so maybe the Pit is not responding appropriately to the low T level.

But you know, his high weight kind of complicates conventional wisdom.  It may be difficult to be more definitive until he loses a lot of weight.

Also wonderng how his high E2 fits in, the fat he is carrying must be aromatizing like crazy what little T he has.  Course, he dId not say if the E2 test was Immuno, so the high reading may be erroneously high.



38
Did you get E2 (Estradiol) ?

And can you provide the test methodology (Immunology, LCMS, etc) used for each test?

Looks like Primary to me.

A lot of "tired all the time" is probably weight (and low TT and FT) related.

Prolactin, although in range is highish and I believe can cause problems all by itself (weight rated?).

Refer to tattoobytony earlier threads (2 that I know of) for his history.

(Tattoo, it would be best if you would continue your posts in only one thread)

39

"... but I can't believe I have such high triglycerides, glucose and (some) cholesterol markers. I don't eat alot of carbs, but I do drink regularly."


-------

Alcohol will increase triglycerides.  I have a friend that has a job that takes him to sea for extended periods and does not drink at all whIle at sea but when he comes home, he drinks A LOT every day (morning to night).  When not drinking, his trigs are normal but after a few weeks at home, they go over 400.

And it may affect your glucose levels as well.




40
Your triglycerides are too high.  LDL is too high.  I notice your TSH is high at over 4.  That might indicate suboptimal thyroid function.  I'd get a full thyroid workup.  Defy can help with that. Poor thyroid function can contribute to elevated tri's.  Once I got my thyroid dialed in, if tri's are still high, I would attack it through exersize, diet and weight control rather than a prescription drug. 

Regarding your lab values, you don't show an SHBG value, but your free T looks pretty beefy, so your SHBG might be on the low side.  Free T range is 7.2 - 24.0? 

Probably more important than your lab values is how do you feel.  It makes no sense to chase a number on a lab report.  If you feel good then what the labs say is less important.

-------

Joe,

To go along with your comment about his TSH being high, isn't T4 range supposed to be like 4 to 12 ?  If so, his is pretty low at 1.19.

See the following link:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.endocrineweb.com/amp/15

" For example, a low T4 level could mean a diseased thyroid gland ~ OR ~ a non-functioning pituitary gland which is not stimulating the thyroid to produce T4. Since the pituitary gland would normally release TSH if the T4 is low, a high TSH level would confirm that the thyroid gland (not the pituitary gland) is responsible for the hypothyroidism."

41

Gimmeabreak,

........gimmeabreak.....

Okat that’s good!  ;D

--------

Just remembering...

42

-------


nah
I'm not into cats, I"m all about people


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sugars1970,

Obviously, you did not read the book description.  It is about cats, but only as a biological system that may be (and apparently is) a parallel to humans.

Excerpt from book description:

 ...classical experiments in cat feeding, more than 900 cats were studied over 10 years. Dr. Pottenger found that only diets containing raw milk and raw meat produced optimal health: good bone structure and density, wide palates with plenty of space for teeth, shiny fur, no parasites or disease, reproductive ease and gentleness.
Cooking the meat or substituting heat-processed milk for raw resulted in heterogeneous reproduction and physical degeneration, increasing with each generation. Vermin and parasites abounded. Skin diseases and allergies increased from 5% to over 90%. Bones became soft and pliable. Cats suffered from adverse personality changes, hypothyroidism and most of the degenerative diseases encountered in human medicine. They died out completely by the fourth generation. 
The changes Pottenger observed in cats on the deficient diets paralleled the human degeneration that Dr. Price found in tribes that had abandoned traditional diets."

The book also describes how the excrement from the cooked food/heat-processed milk diet was so deficient in nutrients, it did not even work as fertilizer.

I personally am about 65 % raw vegetables and fruits (and raw unprocessed milk and cheeses) mainly as a result of reading these two books (and others).  But I am not quite to the raw meat stage.  But did go from "medium well" to "rare".

I would also comment that my Gastroenterologist (practicing 20 years and well-respected), commented to me that he only eats ONE meal a day, after I asked him if he thought it was ok if I only eat two meals a day.  Note that I would not recommend only one (or maybe only two) meals a day to Can_man's father as I think that advice should come from a Nutritionist and illness recovery is a different thing than "business as usual", normal every day life.

BTW, I do not consider these nutrition posts as a digression from the original poster's intent as good nutrition plays a huge and essential part in recovery from any disease.
In fact, I would encourage Can_man to engage a professional nutritionist to help in his father's treatment and recovery.


43


Most excellent point.  Diet can heal.

Hippocrates "
"Let food be thy medicine and medicine be thy food".

I can highly recommend the following book ( just look at its ratings):

https://www.amazon.com/Nutrition-Physical-Degeneration-Weston-Price/dp/0916764206/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1520176018&sr=8-1&keywords=Weston+price

A nice synopsis of the book can be found at:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/R2XZ0TBUTWBZDD/ref=cm_cr_dp_d_rvw_ttl?ie=UTF8&ASIN=0916764206

good call
I found a site that talks about proper nutrition,  I am going to get that boook

[edited by moderator]
Our basic brochure, Principles of Healthy Diets: We have a  28-page introductory booklet that offers an excellent introduction to the foundation and the work of Weston A. Price. The booklet is recreated on this web page (paper copies can be ordered in the Store). Start here!
Ancient Dietary Wisdom for Tomorrow’s Children: This article will get you better acquainted with the work of Weston A. Price.


I read the review you posted

https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/R2XZ0TBUTWBZDD/ref=cm_cr_dp_d_rvw_ttl?ie=UTF8&ASIN=0916764206

basically a ton of good rules BUT'

I dont agree with not using a microwave
avoiding caffeine


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There are a couple that I don't agree with either (but not many).

Since you liked Dr. Price' book, you may like " Pottenger's Cats" as well by Francis Pottenger.

An eye-opener !

 https://www.amazon.com/Pottengers-Cats-Francis-Marion-Pottenger/dp/0916764060/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1520187407&sr=8-1&keywords=pottengers+cats&dpID=51LMcbwQtwL&preST=_SY291_BO1,204,203,200_QL40_&dpSrc=srch

44

He asked me yesterday to help him find a Natural Path doctor to also work on his cancer?

Has anyone had any experiences with cancer treatments using a Natural PAth Doc? 

Any insight/suggestions would be greatly appreciated...

He is 92, until last summer he worked every day on his farm...

exposure to the environment can cause bad things to happen, that includes food
food going thru the GI tract is not in the body, yet, it is still outside the body.
so what is his diet  like?
Dr. McDougall Webinar: The Dietary Treatment of Cancer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyRuDpqYuvY


Dr Mcdougall is a MD, and a classical trained MD and does most things a MD does, except  he also sees the effect food has on  the body

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Most excellent point.  Diet can heal.

Hippocrates "
"Let food be thy medicine and medicine be thy food".

I can highly recommend the following book ( just look at its ratings):

https://www.amazon.com/Nutrition-Physical-Degeneration-Weston-Price/dp/0916764206/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1520176018&sr=8-1&keywords=Weston+price

A nice synopsis of the book can be found at:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/R2XZ0TBUTWBZDD/ref=cm_cr_dp_d_rvw_ttl?ie=UTF8&ASIN=0916764206


45
So there is still no info how to increase shbg?

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Arg,

This string is more about research regarding SHBG structure, functions and behavior, it's interaction with steroids and other biochemicals, and it's various interactions with body cells primarily with respect to Testosterone and other sex related hormones.

I would suggest you start a new forum string on how to increase SHBG, I really believe you would get a much bigger response.

Good Luck

That's true, but it does beg the obvious question.

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And a good question it is, just better asked in its own string (response-wise).

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