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81
Testosterone, Hormones and General Men's Health / Re: Enclomiphene report
« Last post by seppuku on March 24, 2021, 11:53:17 am »
Seppuku your suggestion got me thinking. It never occurred to me that Clomid/enclomiphene could have a dampening effect on estrogen receptors! So I checked some old notes/labs I made Sept.2018 – Aug 2020. By mid-2019 and into June 2020 my libido was not great but acceptable. My protocol was still a work in progress at that time but it was generally around 12.5mg Clomid and DIM 200mg four to six times a month. Unfortunately I got too complacent and took only one lab for the year - December 2019. This lab was TT 820 pg/mL, Free T 84 pg/mL, estradiol <20 (?), SHBG 83nmol/L, LH 4.8 miU/ml etc. Unremarkable, almost normal.  Then in July 2020 I unfortunately tweaked the protocol a little and my libido declined. My 08/07/20 lab was TT 1283.1 pg/mL, Free T 98.5 pg/mL, estradiol 43 pg/ml, SHBG 85 nmol/L, LH 5.3 mlU/ml.  Hormones are truly a balancing act. Maybe someday...        Interesting idea about neurotransmitters, I’ll speak with my doctor concerning replacing my Wellbutrin with selegiiline.  Thank you.                                                                                         

No problem, and good luck!  I've been reading other peoples progress and experiences for years - most people seem to get the fat loss / muscle building effects etc from increased testosterone, but it's always libido that causes problems. It's such a tricky one and probably depends on many factors (hormones but also stress, sleep, diet etc etc). And it would seem that generally, very low e2 levels are worse than very high ones, but there's always a sweet spot.  Regarding clomid, for me, and more (or less) than 12.5mg three times a week, and i just don't feel right.
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Testosterone, Hormones and General Men's Health / Re: Enclomiphene report
« Last post by Gef on March 24, 2021, 08:18:39 am »
Seppuku your suggestion got me thinking. It never occurred to me that Clomid/enclomiphene could have a dampening effect on estrogen receptors! So I checked some old notes/labs I made Sept.2018 – Aug 2020. By mid-2019 and into June 2020 my libido was not great but acceptable. My protocol was still a work in progress at that time but it was generally around 12.5mg Clomid and DIM 200mg four to six times a month. Unfortunately I got too complacent and took only one lab for the year - December 2019. This lab was TT 820 pg/mL, Free T 84 pg/mL, estradiol <20 (?), SHBG 83nmol/L, LH 4.8 miU/ml etc. Unremarkable, almost normal.  Then in July 2020 I unfortunately tweaked the protocol a little and my libido declined. My 08/07/20 lab was TT 1283.1 pg/mL, Free T 98.5 pg/mL, estradiol 43 pg/ml, SHBG 85 nmol/L, LH 5.3 mlU/ml.  Hormones are truly a balancing act. Maybe someday...        Interesting idea about neurotransmitters, I’ll speak with my doctor concerning replacing my Wellbutrin with selegiiline.  Thank you.                                                                                           
83
Testosterone, Hormones and General Men's Health / Re: Whats used to lower Prolactin?
« Last post by ghce on March 23, 2021, 11:38:37 pm »
After a few days use of the P5P formulation of B6 at 2 x 50 mg per day ( split dosage) I noticed a pronounced drop in libido erections and sensitivity  so reverted to the more common form of B6 at 2 x 250mg per day ( split dose) and was pretty much instantly rewarded with a return of the missing  libido and erections, go figure!

Will continue with this.

On taking the B6 in standard form I have noted a bit of a "head buzz" going on which is sort of the feeling I used to get pre low T days when sexually aroused, this wasnt there with the P5P formulation.
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i do get reactions to GABA, without B6.
typically a mild niacin type 'flush', which is normal I am reading, however I am also getting a weird heart race type reaction, no idea what it is.
happens even at low doses,  I stopped using it.
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Testosterone, Hormones and General Men's Health / Re: Enclomiphene report
« Last post by seppuku on March 23, 2021, 04:37:59 pm »
Apparently an MAO-B inhibitor greatly increases absorption of PEA. I was mindful of that study that used only 90 mg PEA daily with selegiline, and it's been a good dose for me. I did try 180 mg, but it was interfering with sleep. I started selegiline at 1.25 mg daily and gradually titrated up to 2.5 mg. I felt some benefits at the lower dose, but 2.5 mg crosses some threshold for me and results are now consistently good.

2.5mg selegiline is also my prefered dose, although i'm not consistant with it lately. I think of i'd tried PEA at around 90mg too, i might have had less scary results!
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Hi Cataceous - i've been facinated lately reading here, and on Nelsons site about your trials and experimentation with regards to your own protocol. I hope people here appeciate what a fountain of knowledge you are and the advice you freely give out.  Quick question - have you found through adding on the enclomiphene to your trt that it's increased your LH /FSH levels?  I'm guessing if it has it wouldn't be by a huge amount due to the exogenous testosterone, but has it increased enough to have an effect on other things like your dhea levels, or testicular volume?  That to me seems like the holy grail of hormone replacement for men, avoiding, or at least reducing the suppression that occurs with trt.

You're one of the ones I was learning from originally, and I'm happy to be similarly sharing knowledge with others.

The combination of enclomiphene and GnRH can raise LH and FSH under TRT, and did in my case, as documented here.


Enclomiphene by itself will generally not overcome the suppressive effects of TRT. This is because androgens are independently suppressive at the hypothalamus, blocking kisspeptin production, which in turn shuts down GnRH. Use of exogenous GnRH bypasses this problem. It's possible that use of exogenous kisspeptin would do the same.

Interestingly, the protocol does not seem to have noticeably affected progesterone or DHEA-S. I'm not sure why that is. But having even low-normal levels of both LH and FSH has improved testicular and ejaculate volumes considerably, more so than 1,000 IU hCG weekly. It also appears to retain or restore fertility. Endogenous contributions to testosterone are too small to discern. This isn't so surprising given that it was also true with hCG. I expect this will vary depending on the individual; some guys see substantial endogenous testosterone with very modest amounts of hCG.

Wow, that's a fantastic finding, and a great result Cataceous - LH numbers well within "normal" results. I wonder if over time that will increase even more for you - i'll be definitely keeping tabs on your progress.
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Hi Cataceous - i've been facinated lately reading here, and on Nelsons site about your trials and experimentation with regards to your own protocol. I hope people here appeciate what a fountain of knowledge you are and the advice you freely give out.  Quick question - have you found through adding on the enclomiphene to your trt that it's increased your LH /FSH levels?  I'm guessing if it has it wouldn't be by a huge amount due to the exogenous testosterone, but has it increased enough to have an effect on other things like your dhea levels, or testicular volume?  That to me seems like the holy grail of hormone replacement for men, avoiding, or at least reducing the suppression that occurs with trt.

You're one of the ones I was learning from originally, and I'm happy to be similarly sharing knowledge with others.

The combination of enclomiphene and GnRH can raise LH and FSH under TRT, and did in my case, as documented here.


Enclomiphene by itself will generally not overcome the suppressive effects of TRT. This is because androgens are independently suppressive at the hypothalamus, blocking kisspeptin production, which in turn shuts down GnRH. Use of exogenous GnRH bypasses this problem. It's possible that use of exogenous kisspeptin would do the same.

Interestingly, the protocol does not seem to have noticeably affected progesterone or DHEA-S. I'm not sure why that is. But having even low-normal levels of both LH and FSH has improved testicular and ejaculate volumes considerably, more so than 1,000 IU hCG weekly. It also appears to retain or restore fertility. Endogenous contributions to testosterone are too small to discern. This isn't so surprising given that it was also true with hCG. I expect this will vary depending on the individual; some guys see substantial endogenous testosterone with very modest amounts of hCG.
88
Testosterone, Hormones and General Men's Health / Re: Enclomiphene report
« Last post by Cataceous on March 23, 2021, 02:34:36 pm »
Apparently an MAO-B inhibitor greatly increases absorption of PEA. I was mindful of that study that used only 90 mg PEA daily with selegiline, and it's been a good dose for me. I did try 180 mg, but it was interfering with sleep. I started selegiline at 1.25 mg daily and gradually titrated up to 2.5 mg. I felt some benefits at the lower dose, but 2.5 mg crosses some threshold for me and results are now consistently good.
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Can you walk me thru the need for the enclomiphene? I've never used any serms before so I've never studied them.

Estrogens act at the pituitary to reduce production of the gonadotropins, LH and FSH. This won't interfere with any independent benefits of GnRH, but if you're trying to get away from hCG and experience the separate benefits of making your own LH and FSH then a SERM such as enclomiphene is used to block the suppressive effects of estradiol at the pituitary. SERM use may be a balancing act: there's speculation that SERMs in excess could block the desirable effects of estradiol elsewhere in the brain. This is why I dropped my enclomiphene dose to 12.5 mg EOD even though the gonadotropin production may not be quite as good as with daily use.

Hi Cataceous - i've been facinated lately reading here, and on Nelsons site about your trials and experimentation with regards to your own protocol. I hope people here appeciate what a fountain of knowledge you are and the advice you freely give out.  Quick question - have you found through adding on the enclomiphene to your trt that it's increased your LH /FSH levels?  I'm guessing if it has it wouldn't be by a huge amount due to the exogenous testosterone, but has it increased enough to have an effect on other things like your dhea levels, or testicular volume?  That to me seems like the holy grail of hormone replacement for men, avoiding, or at least reducing the suppression that occurs with trt.
90
Testosterone, Hormones and General Men's Health / Re: Enclomiphene report
« Last post by seppuku on March 23, 2021, 01:13:38 pm »
I would say the same things as seppuku: Concern about the enclomiphene itself, which would be a reason to try EOD dosing; otherwise the neurotransmitters. I take selegiline with PEA—phenethylamine—and I really like the combination. You can also look at the things in JustAskin's stack: https://www.peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=9644.0

Please be careful with that combo Cataceous - i tried it once, probably too much pea really as the effect was dramatic but scared the hell out of me. I had been taking the selegiline regularly, 2.5mg a day. I took some pea before a workout (it was loose powder so i'm unsure of the dose but probably between 250mg - 500mg i think). I had a wave of euphoria go through me, but also an extreme flushing of the skin, rapid heart beat. I came out of my gym to tell my wife how great i felt, and noticed i had zero sensitivity to pain - i reckon i could have put a skewer through my leg and wouldn't have felt it. I checked my blood pressure, and it was much higher than normal. I had to stop my workout as i was worried about my blood pressure, but also because the feeling of pleasure was just to great to want to do anything!!  I know you've been using this combo with success so you must be using a correct dosage, but i thought i should mention what happened to me because although it felt pleasurable, it also scared me off trying it again!! I'd taken pea before (without selegiline), and on its own had very little effect. With selegiline in the mix though, it needs cautious dosages of pea starting low.
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