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Author Topic: Newfound anxiety and suspected lower T  (Read 11211 times)

JonnyV

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Newfound anxiety and suspected lower T
« on: June 05, 2016, 07:12:05 pm »
Hi friends,

I'm back! About a year ago, I submitted a post about a year ago saying that I felt great after a 15% increase in my total T (still only around 450). I was in fact feeling great at that time. Got my labs done about 6 months ago and the numbers were in the same range. All seemed well.

Anyway, fast forward to today. For the past month, I have had pretty bad anxiety that eventually has resulted in 4-5 full on anxiety attacks. I'm talking minutes (sometimes an hour) of a full on panic attack, heavy breathing, tunnel vision, the whole 9 yards. Most have been in public speaking or social settings. I used to get nervous in front of crowds (like most people) but it has always been manageable. I have given presentations to 100's of people, but this anxiety has been on a whole 'nother level. Seemingly simple social settings that were no problem before, now give me incapacitating anxiety. It has started affecting work to the point I have had to take some time off.

One episode recently made me feel like I was going to pass out, so I went to urgent care. While in the waiting room, I started crying lol. All of these symptoms are just super weird and out of nowhere. Finally when they saw me, they basically told me I have anxiety and need to take Xanax. It's just really odd that this has been so abrupt. Anyway, I suggested that I should get a full blood panel (to double check for things like T) and I was basically denied and told that I am healthy based on previous tests from 6 months ago. I also spoke to my primary care physician's nurse and she said that the doctor said low testosterone does not cause anxiety. I know from being here long enough that that is not true and can totally be a causal factor in anxiety.

This anxiety correlates pretty strongly with some big transitions in my life (moving, GF moving in, tough times at work) so it may just be all of that. But on top of all this, lately my "zest for life" just hasn't been there and I have noticed that my sex drive has been lowered. TMI warning - testicle size seems smaller too but it's hard to be sure. All of this is just making me want to finally get serious about TRT and get my levels up to what I should have for a 31 year old guy. Also, putting muscle on has been tough and dieting works but is super slow. I don't wanna suffer in all of these areas for another decade.

Anyway, sorry for the long post. Half of this is a rant and half is me asking for advice. I am thinking of going to my primary care this week and telling him that I am going to order these tests from Life Extension if he does not order them for me:

http://www.lifeextension.com/Vitamins-Supplements/itemLC322582/Male-Panel-Blood-Test

If my T is still below 500 (which I am sure it is) and my T/E2 ratio is still as bad as it was 6 months ago (15), I am going to get serious about trying some different therapies. Clomid did help a bit but shot my E2 up pretty high and that scared me. Also, I did have some of the common libido problems with certain doses of Clomid.

What do you guys think? I am also willing to ditch my primary care if he does not help out. He would probably be willing to refer me to a urologist too if I asked.

PeakT

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Re: Newfound anxiety and suspected lower T
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2016, 03:47:01 am »
Hi friends,

I'm back! About a year ago, I submitted a post about a year ago saying that I felt great after a 15% increase in my total T (still only around 450). I was in fact feeling great at that time. Got my labs done about 6 months ago and the numbers were in the same range. All seemed well.

Anyway, fast forward to today. For the past month, I have had pretty bad anxiety that eventually has resulted in 4-5 full on anxiety attacks. I'm talking minutes (sometimes an hour) of a full on panic attack, heavy breathing, tunnel vision, the whole 9 yards. Most have been in public speaking or social settings. I used to get nervous in front of crowds (like most people) but it has always been manageable. I have given presentations to 100's of people, but this anxiety has been on a whole 'nother level. Seemingly simple social settings that were no problem before, now give me incapacitating anxiety. It has started affecting work to the point I have had to take some time off.

One episode recently made me feel like I was going to pass out, so I went to urgent care. While in the waiting room, I started crying lol. All of these symptoms are just super weird and out of nowhere. Finally when they saw me, they basically told me I have anxiety and need to take Xanax. It's just really odd that this has been so abrupt. Anyway, I suggested that I should get a full blood panel (to double check for things like T) and I was basically denied and told that I am healthy based on previous tests from 6 months ago. I also spoke to my primary care physician's nurse and she said that the doctor said low testosterone does not cause anxiety. I know from being here long enough that that is not true and can totally be a causal factor in anxiety.

This anxiety correlates pretty strongly with some big transitions in my life (moving, GF moving in, tough times at work) so it may just be all of that. But on top of all this, lately my "zest for life" just hasn't been there and I have noticed that my sex drive has been lowered. TMI warning - testicle size seems smaller too but it's hard to be sure. All of this is just making me want to finally get serious about TRT and get my levels up to what I should have for a 31 year old guy. Also, putting muscle on has been tough and dieting works but is super slow. I don't wanna suffer in all of these areas for another decade.

Anyway, sorry for the long post. Half of this is a rant and half is me asking for advice. I am thinking of going to my primary care this week and telling him that I am going to order these tests from Life Extension if he does not order them for me:

http://www.lifeextension.com/Vitamins-Supplements/itemLC322582/Male-Panel-Blood-Test

If my T is still below 500 (which I am sure it is) and my T/E2 ratio is still as bad as it was 6 months ago (15), I am going to get serious about trying some different therapies. Clomid did help a bit but shot my E2 up pretty high and that scared me. Also, I did have some of the common libido problems with certain doses of Clomid.

What do you guys think? I am also willing to ditch my primary care if he does not help out. He would probably be willing to refer me to a urologist too if I asked.

Sorry to hear it.  I had a huge amount of social anxiety.  I doubt anyone could beat me in that category.  Testosterone really helped and DHEA also.  Bottom line:  pull all the standard hormones.  And don't forget gut and stomach (low stomach acid) issues:  these affect everything.

And you should start getting used to pulling your own labs imo:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/testosterone_labs

It's just not expensive and insurance-backed health care always leaves out about 80% of the ones you need...
« Last Edit: June 06, 2016, 03:56:33 am by PeakT »
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

Peak Testosterone Forum

Re: Newfound anxiety and suspected lower T
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2016, 03:47:01 am »


davie12

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Re: Newfound anxiety and suspected lower T
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2016, 10:05:35 pm »
Although having testosterone in the 400's and up to 500 is not optimal, it certainly isn't low enough to cause the worst symptoms. Usually, at that level the sexual symptoms are the most obvious (erection quality, libido, etc.) In fact, probably lowered libido is probably the most obvious one. It seems like once you hit the 400s, morning wood is there too. I'd be surprised that testicle shrinkage has occurred at that level. Also, that's enough T to put on muscle. I don't know if you've gone down the herbal/diet route, but you may be a good candidate for that if you're looking for like a 100-200 boost...ie. tongkat, maca, carb backloading, etc.
Recovering from adrenal fatigue through Paleo diet+exercise+vitamins/supplements; formerly used HCG & Clomid at various dosages

JonnyV

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Re: Newfound anxiety and suspected lower T
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2016, 05:33:19 am »
Sorry to hear it.  I had a huge amount of social anxiety.  I doubt anyone could beat me in that category.  Testosterone really helped and DHEA also.  Bottom line:  pull all the standard hormones.  And don't forget gut and stomach (low stomach acid) issues:  these affect everything.

And you should start getting used to pulling your own labs imo:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/testosterone_labs

It's just not expensive and insurance-backed health care always leaves out about 80% of the ones you need...

Thanks Peak. I am going to ask him to give me as many of those blood tests as possible. I pay good money for health insurance, so he should give me those tests. In the event he does not, I am going to do the full Life Extension panel, and then supplement more often with the link you sent. I will report back.

Peak Testosterone Forum

Re: Newfound anxiety and suspected lower T
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2016, 05:33:19 am »


JonnyV

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Re: Newfound anxiety and suspected lower T
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2016, 05:40:26 am »
Although having testosterone in the 400's and up to 500 is not optimal, it certainly isn't low enough to cause the worst symptoms. Usually, at that level the sexual symptoms are the most obvious (erection quality, libido, etc.) In fact, probably lowered libido is probably the most obvious one. It seems like once you hit the 400s, morning wood is there too. I'd be surprised that testicle shrinkage has occurred at that level. Also, that's enough T to put on muscle. I don't know if you've gone down the herbal/diet route, but you may be a good candidate for that if you're looking for like a 100-200 boost...ie. tongkat, maca, carb backloading, etc.

I definitely agree with you. I would be lying if I said that I was miserable. Although this anxiety month happened and my zest for life has been much lowered, in general I have been fine. I can have sex and morning wood is around. I dont get spontaneous erections and I do have trouble with diet/muscle gain, but it's not impossible. Anyway, I do think have a total T of 700 with a E2 in the 20's would make me happier and solve a lot of problems.

I have tried a lot of things - maca, tongkat, intermittent fasting, arginine/ornithine, zinc, horny hoat weed lol, the whole 9 yards. Nothing moved the needle :/. Thanks for the perspective!

PeakT

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Re: Newfound anxiety and suspected lower T
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2016, 06:35:05 am »
Although having testosterone in the 400's and up to 500 is not optimal, it certainly isn't low enough to cause the worst symptoms. Usually, at that level the sexual symptoms are the most obvious (erection quality, libido, etc.) In fact, probably lowered libido is probably the most obvious one. It seems like once you hit the 400s, morning wood is there too. I'd be surprised that testicle shrinkage has occurred at that level. Also, that's enough T to put on muscle. I don't know if you've gone down the herbal/diet route, but you may be a good candidate for that if you're looking for like a 100-200 boost...ie. tongkat, maca, carb backloading, etc.

I definitely agree with you. I would be lying if I said that I was miserable. Although this anxiety month happened and my zest for life has been much lowered, in general I have been fine. I can have sex and morning wood is around. I dont get spontaneous erections and I do have trouble with diet/muscle gain, but it's not impossible. Anyway, I do think have a total T of 700 with a E2 in the 20's would make me happier and solve a lot of problems.

I have tried a lot of things - maca, tongkat, intermittent fasting, arginine/ornithine, zinc, horny hoat weed lol, the whole 9 yards. Nothing moved the needle :/. Thanks for the perspective!

It's probably hormones but here are a few other ideas:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

JonnyV

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Re: Newfound anxiety and suspected lower T
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2016, 05:22:35 pm »
It's probably hormones but here are a few other ideas:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program

Thanks Peak, I will check it out.

Here's an update - went to the doctor and explained everything. He thinks it is stress-induced anxiety. I then asked him for some blood tests, but he was adamant that anxiety can't be caused by low T (grrr). After some more discussion, he agreed to only pull my Free/Total T, Estradiol, and DHEA. Not everything I wanted but it's a start. I do not have the DHEA results yet but the other results are very interesting:

Total Testosterone: 337 ng/dL (range: 300-1080)
Estradiol: 30 pg/ml (range: 12-41)
Testosterone free: 79 pg/mL (range: 47-244)
Testosterone free %: 2.3% (range: 1.6-2.9)
SHBG: 19 nmol/L

These numbers are a tragedy compared to my total @ 450 before. My Total T to E2 ratio is a dismal 10! I knew something was wrong and I'm pretty sure this is contributing heavily to my anxiety.

With your guys' help, I'm gonna start seriously looking into options. I don't think Clomid is a good option for me based on results previously but maybe I'll try HCG monotherapy or an aromatase inhibitor.

electrify

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Re: Newfound anxiety and suspected lower T
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2016, 06:29:12 pm »
I never understood why drs often blame "stress" induced anxiety.

Even 2 years ago before I found out about this stuff when I told my PCP about my anxiety it was blamed on "stress". Despite explaining that I have always done well academically and never had stress at school, etc. They just kept on saying college is a stressful place and that I ruminate too much.

Made absolutely no sense given the fact that the *day* before this began I was completely 100% normal and that my rumination was a result of me not feeling that normal anymore and not a direct "cause" of it. And that I worried about the future too much but in reality all the worrying about grad school,etc comes from how I felt in the moment
« Last Edit: June 09, 2016, 06:59:12 pm by electrify »
Age:24

Cataceous

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Re: Newfound anxiety and suspected lower T
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2016, 08:24:32 pm »
...
Estradiol: 30 pg/ml (range: 12-41)
...
I don't think Clomid is a good option for me based on results previously but maybe I'll try HCG monotherapy or an aromatase inhibitor.

Don't mess with an AI at this point. Even if the estradiol reading is correct it's probably too low to safely push down with an AI. And if the test used the ECLIA methodology then the actual value is probably lower.
I am not a medical doctor; any suggestions are meant to be discussed with your doctor.
Age: 60, Ht: 5'10", Wt: 154 lbs
Protocol: 3.2 mg TE subQ qd, 2.4 mg TP subQ qd, 20 mcg GnRH subQ 5.25x/d, 6.25 mg DHEA bid, 12.5 mg enclomiphene qod
Approximate levels (peak): TT: 700 ng/dL, E2: 30 pg/mL, DHEA-S: 300 ug/dL, SHBG: 30 nMol/L

PeakT

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Re: Newfound anxiety and suspected lower T
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2016, 10:19:03 pm »
It's probably hormones but here are a few other ideas:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program

Thanks Peak, I will check it out.

Here's an update - went to the doctor and explained everything. He thinks it is stress-induced anxiety. I then asked him for some blood tests, but he was adamant that anxiety can't be caused by low T (grrr). After some more discussion, he agreed to only pull my Free/Total T, Estradiol, and DHEA. Not everything I wanted but it's a start. I do not have the DHEA results yet but the other results are very interesting:

Total Testosterone: 337 ng/dL (range: 300-1080)
Estradiol: 30 pg/ml (range: 12-41)
Testosterone free: 79 pg/mL (range: 47-244)
Testosterone free %: 2.3% (range: 1.6-2.9)
SHBG: 19 nmol/L

These numbers are a tragedy compared to my total @ 450 before. My Total T to E2 ratio is a dismal 10! I knew something was wrong and I'm pretty sure this is contributing heavily to my anxiety.

With your guys' help, I'm gonna start seriously looking into options. I don't think Clomid is a good option for me based on results previously but maybe I'll try HCG monotherapy or an aromatase inhibitor.

That's low ttotal testosterone - right where I was at - and quite low free testosterone.  A young guy should always read thru this list and see if any apply:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/causes_of_Low_testosterone
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

JonnyV

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Re: Newfound anxiety and suspected lower T
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2016, 03:09:18 am »
I never understood why drs often blame "stress" induced anxiety.

Even 2 years ago before I found out about this stuff when I told my PCP about my anxiety it was blamed on "stress". Despite explaining that I have always done well academically and never had stress at school, etc. They just kept on saying college is a stressful place and that I ruminate too much.

Made absolutely no sense given the fact that the *day* before this began I was completely 100% normal and that my rumination was a result of me not feeling that normal anymore and not a direct "cause" of it. And that I worried about the future too much but in reality all the worrying about grad school,etc comes from how I felt in the moment
I 100% agree with your post. I was pretty normal feeling a few months ago and then all of a sudden this started happening. "Stress induced anxiety" is such a blanket, meaningless diagnosis that it is unfair.

Right now, I am stressed because of the way I feel and how I have reacted in social situations. If this wasn't the case, I wouldn't be stressed. It's not a product of the stress.

JonnyV

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Re: Newfound anxiety and suspected lower T
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2016, 03:10:07 am »
Don't mess with an AI at this point. Even if the estradiol reading is correct it's probably too low to safely push down with an AI. And if the test used the ECLIA methodology then the actual value is probably lower.

I see, thanks for the post. What do you recommend I try if Clomid isn't working and an AI is not a choice?

JonnyV

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Re: Newfound anxiety and suspected lower T
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2016, 03:11:49 am »
That's low ttotal testosterone - right where I was at - and quite low free testosterone.  A young guy should always read thru this list and see if any apply:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/causes_of_Low_testosterone

Thanks Peak. Yeah, so you know exactly how I feel :). This is crazy to drop -25% total T in such a short time.

So, if my doctor says I am still in the range, I should just get a new doctor or get referred to a urologist, right? I am not going to ignore these readings.

PeakT

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Re: Newfound anxiety and suspected lower T
« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2016, 07:16:35 am »
That's low ttotal testosterone - right where I was at - and quite low free testosterone.  A young guy should always read thru this list and see if any apply:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/causes_of_Low_testosterone

Thanks Peak. Yeah, so you know exactly how I feel :). This is crazy to drop -25% total T in such a short time.

So, if my doctor says I am still in the range, I should just get a new doctor or get referred to a urologist, right? I am not going to ignore these readings.

You've got two routes you can go:

a) Talk to various docs and find which doc they would recommend as the doc that enjoys "men's issues and hormones." 

b) That said, I can almost guarantee you an infinitely better experience if you can afford to pay cash.  Our site sponsors are examples of that.
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

Cataceous

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Re: Newfound anxiety and suspected lower T
« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2016, 02:57:03 pm »
Don't mess with an AI at this point. Even if the estradiol reading is correct it's probably too low to safely push down with an AI. And if the test used the ECLIA methodology then the actual value is probably lower.

I see, thanks for the post. What do you recommend I try if Clomid isn't working and an AI is not a choice?

I'm biased because it works so well for me, but I think a TRT/low-dose hCG combo is hard to beat. If you're concerned about estradiol then hCG monotherapy is problematic, as hCG directly stimulates aromatization. Also, many guys don't seem to raise total testosterone enough with this method. Of course you should verify estradiol measurements with the LC/MS (sensitive) test to see if there's any basis for your concern.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2016, 03:04:54 pm by Cataceous »
I am not a medical doctor; any suggestions are meant to be discussed with your doctor.
Age: 60, Ht: 5'10", Wt: 154 lbs
Protocol: 3.2 mg TE subQ qd, 2.4 mg TP subQ qd, 20 mcg GnRH subQ 5.25x/d, 6.25 mg DHEA bid, 12.5 mg enclomiphene qod
Approximate levels (peak): TT: 700 ng/dL, E2: 30 pg/mL, DHEA-S: 300 ug/dL, SHBG: 30 nMol/L

Peak Testosterone Forum

Re: Newfound anxiety and suspected lower T
« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2016, 02:57:03 pm »