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Author Topic: Weirdly low test results  (Read 4189 times)

Nocturne

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Weirdly low test results
« on: August 15, 2016, 05:30:25 pm »
I've been feeling pretty good the last few months -- especially the last two.  Sex has been reliable, EQ has been good, and I've been waking up with erections that are maybe 90-95% what they were in the "good old days" of 2-3 years ago -- back when I would have pulled a funny face and laughed if anyone had suggested what was coming.

So I really expected that my T levels would be better than they had been since I started having them checked when I went to see my doc today and he revealed the latest draw -- which I had done a few days ago, for the first time in maybe 6 months.

Back then, total T had been 533, free T was 88.5, and bioavailable T was 212.

Latest readings:  Total T 376, free T 66.1, bioavailable T 151.3.

So how the Hell am I feeling better?  Doc didn't think anything of it, but he is sort of a "no worries" type.

I'm not sure what to think about this.  Mostly I'm thinking I should really just let it pass, since I've been doing well.  Maybe this reading was taken at the low point of my cycle (although I had blood drawn at around 9:00 am).

It's just...  weird.  I was fully expecting to see total T in the 500s, maybe even the 600s, given the way I've been feeling.

Edit: E2 was 32, LH was 6.1.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2016, 05:36:07 pm by Nocturne »
43 years old
5'7", was 220 pounds when trouble started, now down to 165
Trouble began with abrupt ED Early May '15
Initial T level 130
Started Clomid in hopes of rebooting system June '15
Currently taking 25 mg eod and .25 mg Arimidex every 4 days
T level 480 or so at last reading
ED in check with 2.5 mg Cialis eod and supplements:
POM juice, L-Cit, Pycnogenol

Morning anxiety currently in check with GABA taken every night

Biggest current worry is heart health:
Aortic stenosis (very mild for now)
CAC score 156(!) at age 42
Lp(a) is a shockingly bad 390 nmol/L -- TRIPLE the "extremely high risk" level!
Homozygous for the bad "G" variant of SNP rs10455872, which increases Lp(a) as well as odds for aortic stenosis and coronary artery lesions. 
I think I know what trashed my heart...

40 mg Crestor and baby aspirin every day
CoQ-10, Vitamin K2, and Kyolic Aged Garlic Extract every day too
Walking 10,000 steps a day

Sean Mosher

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Re: Weirdly low test results
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2016, 05:44:28 pm »
Total T definitely not horrible, but certainly nowhere near great as well.
Is TRT something you are considering?
And what as your age again?
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Re: Weirdly low test results
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2016, 05:44:28 pm »


golfboy307

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Re: Weirdly low test results
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2016, 06:03:30 pm »
Noc,

Are you still on Clomid?  It would be interesting to see if your E2 ratio has improved even though total T is down.  Yes, it does seem strange that you seem to be feeling good at those levels.  When I was under 400, I was miserable!  No libido, non existent erections.  Probably bears some investigation.  Also, maybe now that it is not the sole focus of your stress and worries, the mental side has recovered.
Age 51, 5'10, 155 lbs
Cholesterol 162 (HDL 59, LDL 87, Trigs 88, LDL-P 850)
Fasting Glucose 65 (down from 97 pre TRT)
A1C:  5.0 (down from 5.7 per TRT)
Homocysteine:  12.4 > 11.0 > 10.2 > 8.9 using B vitamin therapy.  MTHFR positive 

BP  120/78 (using improved diet and 10 mg Lisinopril ACE Inhibitor)  145/90 prior to meds.

Current protocol:  60 mg Test Cyp IM every 5 days.  No AI.
2/15/17 labs:  Total T (peak day): 1169 (250 - 1100 ng/dl).  Free T 198 pg/ML (46-225).  Sensitive E2: 40 High.  Previously 32. PSA 0.2  Hemocrit 44.2. SHBG: 32
9/15/18 labs:  Total T (trough day):  598 (250 -1100 ng/dl)  Free T 73.9 (46-225) Sensitive E2: 21  Hemocrit 43.7  SHBG 34
2/20/19 labs:  Total T (mid point):  776 (250 -1100 ng/dl) Free T 115.6 (46 - 224 pg/ml) Sensitive E2 24 (<29), DHT 43 (16-79 ng), DHEA-s 244 (70-495 mcg/dl)


Supplements:  Multivitamin, plus additional B12, B6, C, D, K2, Red Yeast Rice, Magnesium, and Coq10  Evening:  Kyolic Garlic, 2mg Cialis, LEF Endothelial Protection

Nocturne

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Re: Weirdly low test results
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2016, 06:04:05 pm »
To be honest, I had been seriously considering pushing for TRT about half a year ago, before I learned about my heart issues (very bad CAC and aortic stenosis -- middle age sure gave me some "gifts" coming out of the starting gates!).

Since then, I've been thinking that Clomid therapy seems to be working surprisingly well, considering how I'm feeling and how well sex is going.  Granted, I'm still taking 2.5 mg Cialis eod, and I'm aware that a 42 year old guy really shouldn't need ANY of that, but I've been chalking that up to bad endothelial damage for a guy my age (CAC score was 156, which is about average for a 65 year old but abominable for a 42 year old).

43 years old
5'7", was 220 pounds when trouble started, now down to 165
Trouble began with abrupt ED Early May '15
Initial T level 130
Started Clomid in hopes of rebooting system June '15
Currently taking 25 mg eod and .25 mg Arimidex every 4 days
T level 480 or so at last reading
ED in check with 2.5 mg Cialis eod and supplements:
POM juice, L-Cit, Pycnogenol

Morning anxiety currently in check with GABA taken every night

Biggest current worry is heart health:
Aortic stenosis (very mild for now)
CAC score 156(!) at age 42
Lp(a) is a shockingly bad 390 nmol/L -- TRIPLE the "extremely high risk" level!
Homozygous for the bad "G" variant of SNP rs10455872, which increases Lp(a) as well as odds for aortic stenosis and coronary artery lesions. 
I think I know what trashed my heart...

40 mg Crestor and baby aspirin every day
CoQ-10, Vitamin K2, and Kyolic Aged Garlic Extract every day too
Walking 10,000 steps a day

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Re: Weirdly low test results
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2016, 06:04:05 pm »


Nocturne

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Re: Weirdly low test results
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2016, 06:05:33 pm »
Noc,

Are you still on Clomid?  It would be interesting to see if your E2 ratio has improved even though total T is down.  Yes, it does seem strange that you seem to be feeling good at those levels.  When I was under 400, I was miserable!  No libido, non existent erections.  Probably bears some investigation.  Also, maybe now that it is not the sole focus of your stress and worries, the mental side has recovered.

E2 is about what it was last time I was tested, when total T was in the 500s, so ratio has not improved any.

The fact that ED got markedly better right after I learned about my heart issues has not gone unnoticed.
43 years old
5'7", was 220 pounds when trouble started, now down to 165
Trouble began with abrupt ED Early May '15
Initial T level 130
Started Clomid in hopes of rebooting system June '15
Currently taking 25 mg eod and .25 mg Arimidex every 4 days
T level 480 or so at last reading
ED in check with 2.5 mg Cialis eod and supplements:
POM juice, L-Cit, Pycnogenol

Morning anxiety currently in check with GABA taken every night

Biggest current worry is heart health:
Aortic stenosis (very mild for now)
CAC score 156(!) at age 42
Lp(a) is a shockingly bad 390 nmol/L -- TRIPLE the "extremely high risk" level!
Homozygous for the bad "G" variant of SNP rs10455872, which increases Lp(a) as well as odds for aortic stenosis and coronary artery lesions. 
I think I know what trashed my heart...

40 mg Crestor and baby aspirin every day
CoQ-10, Vitamin K2, and Kyolic Aged Garlic Extract every day too
Walking 10,000 steps a day

golfboy307

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Re: Weirdly low test results
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2016, 08:15:37 pm »
Well, something seems to be working right for you.  Don't forget all of the proactive diet and weight changes you have accomplished.  Those alone could have had a positive impact on your blood flow.  The 2.5 mg Cialis EOD is probably helping, but not that much.  That is a really low dose. 

Maybe test again in a few months, and hang tight since you are feeling good (in and out of the bedroom).
Age 51, 5'10, 155 lbs
Cholesterol 162 (HDL 59, LDL 87, Trigs 88, LDL-P 850)
Fasting Glucose 65 (down from 97 pre TRT)
A1C:  5.0 (down from 5.7 per TRT)
Homocysteine:  12.4 > 11.0 > 10.2 > 8.9 using B vitamin therapy.  MTHFR positive 

BP  120/78 (using improved diet and 10 mg Lisinopril ACE Inhibitor)  145/90 prior to meds.

Current protocol:  60 mg Test Cyp IM every 5 days.  No AI.
2/15/17 labs:  Total T (peak day): 1169 (250 - 1100 ng/dl).  Free T 198 pg/ML (46-225).  Sensitive E2: 40 High.  Previously 32. PSA 0.2  Hemocrit 44.2. SHBG: 32
9/15/18 labs:  Total T (trough day):  598 (250 -1100 ng/dl)  Free T 73.9 (46-225) Sensitive E2: 21  Hemocrit 43.7  SHBG 34
2/20/19 labs:  Total T (mid point):  776 (250 -1100 ng/dl) Free T 115.6 (46 - 224 pg/ml) Sensitive E2 24 (<29), DHT 43 (16-79 ng), DHEA-s 244 (70-495 mcg/dl)


Supplements:  Multivitamin, plus additional B12, B6, C, D, K2, Red Yeast Rice, Magnesium, and Coq10  Evening:  Kyolic Garlic, 2mg Cialis, LEF Endothelial Protection

kcrunner

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Re: Weirdly low test results
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2016, 08:16:27 pm »
Could just be an anomaly.    You could test it in a week and it could be in the mid 500s.   A week later around 600, then a week later down in the upper 300s.   I doubt even any of us on TRT have particularly predictable numbers. 
Age: 43
Height: 6,1
Weight: 180
Total Testosterone: 829 ng/dl
Free Testosterone: 22 ng/dl
Current Meds:  Levothyroxine 175mcg, Testosterone Cyp Intra-Muscular 100 mg every 5 days.
Supplements-
Multivitamin
Magnesium
Vitamin D
B Complex
Fish Oil

Nocturne

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Re: Weirdly low test results
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2016, 04:38:46 am »
Thanks, guys.  I'm not really UPSET about the numbers, just...  confused.  It's weird.  I'm not going to worry about it unless I start feeling off, and right now I do not.  It is strange, though.
43 years old
5'7", was 220 pounds when trouble started, now down to 165
Trouble began with abrupt ED Early May '15
Initial T level 130
Started Clomid in hopes of rebooting system June '15
Currently taking 25 mg eod and .25 mg Arimidex every 4 days
T level 480 or so at last reading
ED in check with 2.5 mg Cialis eod and supplements:
POM juice, L-Cit, Pycnogenol

Morning anxiety currently in check with GABA taken every night

Biggest current worry is heart health:
Aortic stenosis (very mild for now)
CAC score 156(!) at age 42
Lp(a) is a shockingly bad 390 nmol/L -- TRIPLE the "extremely high risk" level!
Homozygous for the bad "G" variant of SNP rs10455872, which increases Lp(a) as well as odds for aortic stenosis and coronary artery lesions. 
I think I know what trashed my heart...

40 mg Crestor and baby aspirin every day
CoQ-10, Vitamin K2, and Kyolic Aged Garlic Extract every day too
Walking 10,000 steps a day

ghce

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Re: Weirdly low test results
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2016, 04:56:01 am »
But you are 60 pounds less now. I would think that has a large effect on the T to E2 balance
Age:60, Height 6' 3" weight 100KG
2014 Androderm Patches
2014-2016 Oral Andriol 160mg Daily
June 2016 Clomid/Serophene 12.5mg EOD
September 2016 no TRT all natural and supplements for the time being
February 2017 Testosterone cream 100mg daily

Sept 2016
Testosterone   8.2 nmol/l   9-38
Free Testosterone   239 pmol/l   L   250-800
SHBG:  14    nmol/L   9-60
Free Androgen index   586   >400
Oestradiol    112   pmol/L    <190
LH    2.6 IU/L Adult male   2 - 9 IU/L
FSH  1.4 IU/L Adult male L2 - 12 IU/L

22 November
T 6.8  nmol/L ( 9-38 ) L

March 2017
Testosterone:   45.0  nmol/L ( 9-38 ) H ( 1,323 ng/dl )
Free Testosterone:   1512  pmol/L ( 250-800 ) H
SHBG:   17  nmol/L ( 9-60 )
Plasma IGF-1:   227 ug/L ( 55-198 ) H
Plasma cortisol:   434 nmol/L ( 0600-1000 hrs 170-500 nmol/L )
HbA1c:   36 mmol/mol ( 20-40 )
LH:   <0.1 IU/L
FSH:   0.1 IU/L
DHT Plasma Dihydrotestosterone:   7455   pmol/L ( 223 ng/dl ) 
Reference Range Adult males  1000-6000 pmol/L

davie12

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Re: Weirdly low test results
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2016, 06:24:00 am »

Back then, total T had been 533, free T was 88.5, and bioavailable T was 212.

Latest readings:  Total T 376, free T 66.1, bioavailable T 151.3.


I assume those free T numbers are 8.85 and 6.61 when they are converted to the units of measure we normally see for free T. If so, those readings are just so so. Do you ever have your SHBG tested?
Recovering from adrenal fatigue through Paleo diet+exercise+vitamins/supplements; formerly used HCG & Clomid at various dosages

Boxcar

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Re: Weirdly low test results
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2016, 07:58:03 pm »
Some people have low t symptoms at that level, but not everyone.  It could be other things that are causing you to feel better.  Even specifically testosterone-related issues, such as EQ, can be influenced by other factors.  One study, for example, found that IGF-1, not testosterone, was associated with good EQ in older men.  Separate studies have found that IGF-1 and growth hormone can activate testosterone receptors.  Both of those things are influence by diet, sleep and exercise.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2016, 08:01:02 pm by Boxcar »
Age: 36
178 lbs 5'8''

Current Treatment: 50 mg testosterone cypionate IM, twice a week
Low T Symptoms: Chronic pelvic pain, and other neuropathic pain.  Mild anxiety, low energy and low motivation
Meds: Amitriptyline (for pain, not depression), Clonidine (for sleep, not blood pressure)

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Re: Weirdly low test results
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2016, 07:58:03 pm »