Zero IGF-1 and HGH = Zero Diabetes / Cancer and Less DNA Damage

[PeakT]

Okay, the researchers involved in the Ecuadoran study that I have discussed on here have done a nice job of summarizing their findings.  The results are SO powerful that I think finally everyone will finally understand the magnitude of their findings.  I cannot tell you the number of times that I have read guys pushing IGF-1 for muscle growth and different things but check out below what happens when you have virtually none of the stuff:

http://stm.sciencemag.org/content/3/70/70ra13.abstract

"Growth Hormone Receptor Deficiency Is Associated with a Major Reduction in Pro-Aging Signaling, Cancer, and Diabetes in Humans"

"Mutations in growth signaling pathways extend life span, as well as protect against age-dependent DNA damage in yeast and decrease insulin resistance and cancer in mice. To test their effect in humans, we monitored for 22 years Ecuadorian individuals who carry mutations in the growth hormone receptor (GHR) gene that lead to severe GHR and IGF-1 (insulin-like growth factor–1) deficiencies."

"The individuals with GHR deficiency exhibited only one nonlethal malignancy and no cases of diabetes, in contrast to a prevalence of 17% for cancer and 5% for diabetes in control subjects. A possible explanation for the very low incidence of cancer was suggested by in vitro studies: Serum from subjects with GHR deficiency reduced DNA breaks but increased apoptosis in human mammary epithelial cells treated with hydrogen peroxide. Serum from GHR-deficient subjects also caused reduced expression of RAS, PKA (protein kinase A), and TOR (target of rapamycin) and up-regulation of SOD2 (superoxide dismutase 2) in treated cells, changes that promote cellular protection and life-span extension in model organisms."

Here are a few principles that may help those interested:

--Consuming less protein will lower IGF-1.

--IGF-1 can be raised by high carbs.

--IGF-1 will generally be lowered by plant proteins which tend to lower proportionately in methionine.

--IGF-1 can possibly be lowered by taking glycine.  Is that safe long term?  Don't know...

--IGF-1 can be lowered by consuming less overall protein which lowers methionine consumption

If you promote increasing IGF-1, then you might as well promote insulin.  No one wants high insulin, right?  But IGF-1 and insuin and sister molecules and have very similar properties.

[Dr Justin Saya, MD]

An ongoing debate of "Performance" vs "Longevity".

As with other hormones and signaling molecules, I believe the ideal goal should be BALANCE...

[Joe Sixpack]

Well I can see the life extending bene's of low IGF-1 and HGH.  But how does one feel those are low?  You gotta have some of the stuff don't you?

[PeakT]

Well I can see the life extending bene's of low IGF-1 and HGH.  But how does one feel those are low?  You gotta have some of the stuff don't you?

Yeah, I wouldn't want to go zero myself.  That wasn't really my point.  I was just trying to point out that not all hormones are created equal, i.e. are meant to be at youthful levels for your entire life.  Or at least that is how I interpret the results.

[Boxcar]

--IGF-1 can be raised by high carbs.

It looks like carbs lower IGF-1:

http://jco.ascopubs.org/content/17/10/3291.abstract

[Boxcar]

Well I can see the life extending bene's of low IGF-1 and HGH.  But how does one feel those are low?  You gotta have some of the stuff don't you?

Yeah, I wouldn't want to go zero myself.  That wasn't really my point.  I was just trying to point out that not all hormones are created equal, i.e. are meant to be at youthful levels for your entire life.  Or at least that is how I interpret the results.

This makes intuitive sense, but it is not necessarily the case that high IGF-1 is bad, just because very low levels result in less disease.  Testosterone depletion, for example, can be used to treat prostate cancer, but that doesn't necessarily mean that high testosterone causes it.

[PeakT]

An ongoing debate of "Performance" vs "Longevity".

As with other hormones and signaling molecules, I believe the ideal goal should be BALANCE...

Just saw your post Dr. Saya.  Very true.  If they found that having testosterone of 200 ng/dl would add 10 years to my life - well, forget it! 

Yeah, I would like to know what someone said above, though:  what does having very very low IGF-1 do to the person?  I don't think they are miserable in any way like someone with low T, but I don't know for sure.  Will try to reserarch that some time.

[PeakT]

--IGF-1 can be raised by high carbs.

It looks like carbs lower IGF-1:

http://jco.ascopubs.org/content/17/10/3291.abstract

Hmmm.  What I have read in several places is that refined carbs - I emphasize refined - will raise insulin and IGF-1 (in general).  Sounds like I need to dig a bit deeper.

[PeakT]

Okay, I got completely distracted and looked up Laron Syndrome symptoms.  These are standard:

"Other signs and symptoms associated with the condition vary but may include:[1][2][3]
Reduced muscle strength and endurance
Hypoglycemia in infancy
Delayed puberty
Small genitals
Thin, fragile hair
Dental abnormalities
Short limbs (arms and legs)
Obesity
Distinctive facial features (protruding forehead, a sunken bridge of the nose, and blue sclerae)"

Notice that all of the above would go away if IGF-1/HGH was post-puberty.  In other words, I do not see any negative symptoms from reducing IGF-1 post-puberty.  Now that doesn't mean there aren't any.

Btw, guys, just ignore me:  I am keenly int'd in this due to antiaging properties.  I realize that most of you are young pups and not currently worried as much about pure survival.   

[PeakT]

Here is a negative one:  they have thin skin and tend to look aged.  (GH increases skin thickness.)

[PeakT]

This is profound.  Low IGF-1 makes you impervious (or pretty doggone close) to DNA damage.  This is incredible.

Valter Longo, who is one the premier antiaging researchers on the planet, did a study on those with Laron Syndrome and found this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/17/science/17longevity.html?_r=0

"Because of their striking freedom from cancer and diabetes, they probably could live much longer if they did not have a much higher than usual death rate from causes unrelated to age, like alcoholism and accidents.

Dr. Longo said he believed that having very low levels of IGF-1 was the critical feature of the Laron patients’ freedom from age-related diseases. In collaboration with Dr. Guevara-Aguirre, he exposed human cells growing in a laboratory dish to serum from the Laron patients. The cells were then damaged with a chemical that disrupts their DNA. The Laron serum had two significant effects, the two physicians reported on Wednesday in Science Translational Medicine.

First, the serum protected the cells from genetic damage. Second, it spurred the cells that were damaged to destroy themselves, a mechanism the body uses to prevent damaged cells from becoming cancerous. Both these effects were reversed when small amounts of IGF-1 were added to the serum.

Dr. Longo said that some level of IGF-1 was necessary to protect against heart disease, but that lowering the level might be beneficial. A drug that does this is already on the market for treatment of acromegaly, a thickening of the bones caused by excessive growth hormone. “Our underlying hypothesis is that this drug would prolong life span,” Dr. Longo said. He said he was not taking the drug, called pegvisomant or Somavert, which is very hard to obtain."

[Boxcar]

An ongoing debate of "Performance" vs "Longevity".

As with other hormones and signaling molecules, I believe the ideal goal should be BALANCE...

Just saw your post Dr. Saya.  Very true.  If they found that having testosterone of 200 ng/dl would add 10 years to my life - well, forget it! 

Yeah, I would like to know what someone said above, though:  what does having very very low IGF-1 do to the person?  I don't think they are miserable in any way like someone with low T, but I don't know for sure.  Will try to reserarch that some time.

I researched this at one point.  The psychological description is hard to distinguish from low testosterone.  (Prostate cancer research shows that IGF-1 plays a crucial role in stimulating androgen receptors, so this may not be a coincidence.)  Here's one description of the psychological effects of low GH/low IGF-1.

Diminished quality of life, characterized by low energy level, increased emotional lability and irritability, and increased social isolation

http://med.stanford.edu/neurosurgery/pituitary/growth_hormone_deficiency.html

If that's the price, who would want the extra 10-20 years?

[PeakT]

An ongoing debate of "Performance" vs "Longevity".

As with other hormones and signaling molecules, I believe the ideal goal should be BALANCE...

Just saw your post Dr. Saya.  Very true.  If they found that having testosterone of 200 ng/dl would add 10 years to my life - well, forget it! 

Yeah, I would like to know what someone said above, though:  what does having very very low IGF-1 do to the person?  I don't think they are miserable in any way like someone with low T, but I don't know for sure.  Will try to reserarch that some time.

I researched this at one point.  The psychological description is hard to distinguish from low testosterone.  (Prostate cancer research shows that IGF-1 plays a crucial role in stimulating androgen receptors, so this may not be a coincidence.)  Here's one description of the psychological effects of low GH/low IGF-1.

Diminished quality of life, characterized by low energy level, increased emotional lability and irritability, and increased social isolation

http://med.stanford.edu/neurosurgery/pituitary/growth_hormone_deficiency.html

If that's the price, who would want the extra 10-20 years?

Well, not me if those were the terms.  First of all, notice Valter Longo's statement that you need some for cardiovascular protection. 

However, I would venture to guess that a few people would do it using logic similar to Pascal's Wager applied to the life here and now so to speak.

[Boxcar]

An ongoing debate of "Performance" vs "Longevity".

As with other hormones and signaling molecules, I believe the ideal goal should be BALANCE...

Just saw your post Dr. Saya.  Very true.  If they found that having testosterone of 200 ng/dl would add 10 years to my life - well, forget it! 

Yeah, I would like to know what someone said above, though:  what does having very very low IGF-1 do to the person?  I don't think they are miserable in any way like someone with low T, but I don't know for sure.  Will try to reserarch that some time.

I researched this at one point.  The psychological description is hard to distinguish from low testosterone.  (Prostate cancer research shows that IGF-1 plays a crucial role in stimulating androgen receptors, so this may not be a coincidence.)  Here's one description of the psychological effects of low GH/low IGF-1.

Diminished quality of life, characterized by low energy level, increased emotional lability and irritability, and increased social isolation

http://med.stanford.edu/neurosurgery/pituitary/growth_hormone_deficiency.html

If that's the price, who would want the extra 10-20 years?

Well, not me if those were the terms.  First of all, notice Valter Longo's statement that you need some for cardiovascular protection. 

However, I would venture to guess that a few people would do it using logic similar to Pascal's Wager applied to the life here and now so to speak.

That's an interesting idea, that people are applying Pascal's Wager to their health.  I sometimes feel like modern arguments over how we treat our bodies are just replacing arguments we used to have about the soul.

But I really do appreciate the perspective on life extension that you share with us.  You won't find that on many men's health blogs.

[davie12]

This is a discussion that you definitely want to keep fair and balanced. Just keep in mind that that Dr. Shippen frequently alludes to both testosterone and growth hormone (IGF-1) in the same light. They are important markers of aging (as well as DHEA). Thus, he frequently discusses in his book the health benefits of having youthful levels of those hormones. Keep in mind that testosterone and IGF-1 generally both increase with the same lifestyle activities...ie. healthy diet, sprinting, compound lifting, deep, plentiful restful sleep, etc. Growth hormone is often prescribed as an anti-aging remedy in much of the same way as testosterone (although it is a lot more expensive). Thus, I find it difficult to believe that having an IGF-1 level at the bottom of the range for one's age group can be a good thing. I believe the argument about cancer risk with high levels of hormones is true generically speaking for all the hormones we talk about. However, this discussion is multi-faceted, as immunity to errant, cancer cells only decreases with age. This might explain the concern that you allude to as far as raising hormones exogenously in aging people.