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Author Topic: Journal Case Studies Showing Vitamin C Cures Nastiest of Viruses  (Read 19271 times)

PeakT

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Thanks to Retado first of all who alerted me to the video that I mention on the following page.  Incredible stuff that should be front page news as I have no doubt it could save a million lives next year and improve the quality of life of countless more. 

Rheumatic fever, dengue, polio, encephalitis, West Nile, - you name it - high dose Vitamin C has cured it.  There is a reasonable chance this could have helped with Ebola and/or may help with Zika.  (The latter has to be thoroughly tested since it involves unborn children.) 

Check it out and tell me if you agree.  The video is definitely worth a watch:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Vitamin-C_Cure_Viruses
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

Cataceous

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Re: Journal Case Studies Showing Vitamin C Cures Nastiest of Viruses
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2016, 02:49:05 pm »
I think skepticism is still appropriate for claims about mega-dosing vitamin C. Dubious studies from 60+ years ago are not particularly good evidence. This blog takes a closer look at Klenner's work and finds it wanting.

Quote
...
The biggest of these is the 60 patients with polio whom Klenner allegedly cured with his massive doses of vitamin C. Given how long ago this is and how little detail was given, coupled with the lack of any control group, we have no way of knowing whether his combined intravenous/oral vitamin C regimen did anything whatsoever. In any case, itís not hard to figure out the reason why we donít use megadose vitamin C for polio or other viral diseases now. In the case of polio, publications about vitamin C and polio petered out over the next couple of decades, at least as far as a search of PubMed indicates. ...

The bottom line it that the burden of proof is on those making the extraordinary claims. You know how science works: First demonstrate the "cure" in controlled studies, then publish the work in reputable, peer-reviewed journals. Those who instead claim to be victims of a vast conspiracy or who rely on whale.to for references are banished to the pseudoscience hinterlands.
I am not a medical doctor; any suggestions are meant to be discussed with your doctor.
Age: 60, Ht: 5'10", Wt: 154 lbs
Protocol: 3.2 mg TE subQ qd, 2.4 mg TP subQ qd, 20 mcg GnRH subQ 5.25x/d, 6.25 mg DHEA bid, 12.5 mg enclomiphene qod
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Re: Journal Case Studies Showing Vitamin C Cures Nastiest of Viruses
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2016, 02:49:05 pm »


PeakT

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Re: Journal Case Studies Showing Vitamin C Cures Nastiest of Viruses
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2016, 05:19:21 pm »
I think skepticism is still appropriate for claims about mega-dosing vitamin C. Dubious studies from 60+ years ago are not particularly good evidence. This blog takes a closer look at Klenner's work and finds it wanting.

Quote
...
The biggest of these is the 60 patients with polio whom Klenner allegedly cured with his massive doses of vitamin C. Given how long ago this is and how little detail was given, coupled with the lack of any control group, we have no way of knowing whether his combined intravenous/oral vitamin C regimen did anything whatsoever. In any case, itís not hard to figure out the reason why we donít use megadose vitamin C for polio or other viral diseases now. In the case of polio, publications about vitamin C and polio petered out over the next couple of decades, at least as far as a search of PubMed indicates. ...

The bottom line it that the burden of proof is on those making the extraordinary claims. You know how science works: First demonstrate the "cure" in controlled studies, then publish the work in reputable, peer-reviewed journals. Those who instead claim to be victims of a vast conspiracy or who rely on whale.to for references are banished to the pseudoscience hinterlands.

Absolutely.  For example, the recent study on Vitamin C and cancer was very successful but it was not a silver bullet.  Same thing with the Epstein Barr study that I posted.  It greatly helped but wasn't a miracle cure.

But my point is this:  liposomal Vitamin C is dirt cheap compared to virtually any anti-cancer or anti-viral pharmaceutical.  And it has almost no side effect at least from all evidence to date.  And it now has a) two modern studies behind it, b) multiple case studies from older journals and multiple authors and c) modern anecdotall reports. 

So you bring up a good point, and I will probaby add that to the article.

But I completely disagree with the tone of the article.  In my opinion it is inhumane not to investigate a cheap and natural solution that could likely reduce suffering across the globe from a wide variety of diseases and conditions. 
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
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If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

retado

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Re: Journal Case Studies Showing Vitamin C Cures Nastiest of Viruses
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2016, 10:48:46 pm »

The bottom line it that the burden of proof is on those making the extraordinary claims.

burden of proof?
no, won't happen
why?  no one can make money off it

 why do you think most MDs are on your side?

fighting heart diease(top cause of death via CDC  http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/leading-causes-of-death.htm)
is a costly process because IT CAN BE
as kevin MD says
http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2014/12/treating-heart-attacks-cost-much-money.html

medicine doesnt give a muck to find a cheap/easy  solution to their golden goose, they want you to buy their drugs....they don't make money when you buy a jar of vit C pills,. right?  why would they EVER say anything that would hurt their buisness?
like everything else, you gotta follow the money
(you think the beef industry willl ever say anything bad about meat?)


the science behind vitC and heart disease is pretty sound
it goes something like this

your arteries are made of collagen(type3)
so when you have high blood pressure or daily wear and tear, the arteries like anything else NEEDS to be repaired.
so the body needs collagen.....
BUT
humans/gunea pigs/few monkeys, can't make collagen from glucose because of e loss of GULO gene...so we have to make it otherwise WHICH REQUIRES vitamin C
so no vitamin C, no collagen,
no collagen, can't repair/upkeep arteries?? 
no, you can still  repair arteries BUT with Lp(A)  ie  Lipoprotein(a)

LpA is a form of LDL cholesterol..

Lpa makes plaques,  use pubmed to search and you'll find higher LpA, higher risk of CAD
so pauling says, we need Vit C, small doses every few hours to provide groundwork to make collagen( hydroxylase enzymes that perform these reactions require Vitamin C as a cofactor, and a deficiency in this vitamin results in impaired collagen synthesis)
and lysine/proline to bind to Lpa to prevent  plaques from growing(and to make  collagen)
from here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collagen

HEre mercola sums it up(what I just said, bu more detail)
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2001/03/28/linus-pauling


guinea pigs dont make vit C, so we can use them to test out diets with  and without vitC
 The result is always the same.

When these animals are deprived of vitamin C they die a terrible scurvy death in a matter of weeks. When their vitamin C is limited to the U. S. RDA they live, but develop atherosclerosis. When fed roughly the human equivalent of 3 to 5 gm of vitamin C, the pigs thrive with no signs of atherosclerosis.

Disease in guinea pigs occurs in weeks, the human form of the disease usually takes decades to develop. [1] While differences are to be expected in animal experiments, the lesions produced by these experiments are remarkable for their similarity to the human lesion. [2]
http://www.paulingtherapy.com/science.htm


Thats what I know about vit C and heart disease
you need collagen, no  collagen, you end up with plaques



Dr levy will tell you about Vit C and curing infectios disease and blah blah blah
I dont understand that stuff
BUT
IM on a vit C page and they report stuff constantly about vit C making them better
I"ve 2x knocked out a cold using a combo  of
Oral DMSO
few grams vit C
2 grams liposyheric vit C
2-4 vit K2  capsules(lifeextension brand)


60 minutes reported how this dude,  who was almost dead from swine flu, having 2 cloudy lungs, and lipo vit C got him better
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrhkoFcOMII



more stuff about Vit C and viruses
Case report: IV Vitamin C cures Zika in three days

https://www.csom.ca/wp-content/uploads/High-Dose-Intravenous-Vitamin-C-Treatment-for-Zika-Fever-31.1.pdf


questions?
yes, there are more details such as
if you are  a smoker, have root canals, or diabetes, you will have problems with pauling theory working, etc

http://www.hearttechnology.com/exceptions.html

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Re: Journal Case Studies Showing Vitamin C Cures Nastiest of Viruses
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2016, 10:48:46 pm »


PeakT

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Re: Journal Case Studies Showing Vitamin C Cures Nastiest of Viruses
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2016, 02:12:42 am »
Retado:  I am going to put this thread into my page on the same, so feel free to post any interesting reports/videos/sites that you come across.

Cataceous:  I softened up up some of my wording.  I think you bring up a good point that we really don't know success/failure rates yet and my page came across as "this will definitely cure you 100% of the time!"  I didn't actually mean that.  But, even if it cures 25% of encephalities patients or West Nile cases - that's obviously huge.  It's a no brainer for someone to look into this more imo!
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If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

Cataceous

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Re: Journal Case Studies Showing Vitamin C Cures Nastiest of Viruses
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2016, 03:25:09 am »
burden of proof?
no, won't happen
why?  no one can make money off it

This argument pops up occasionally, but I certainly don't buy it in this case.

Quote from: NSF
Although industry funds two-thirds of U.S. R&D, the majority of basic research is conducted by research universities, and the U.S. Government has long recognized the importance of public support for these institutions. ...
Link.

The same government that blows $865,000 to put a mountain lion on a treadmill can't be bothered to fund a miracle cure for cancer and viruses? Or maybe there is no miracle cure.

why do you think most MDs are on your side?

Non sequitur? Ad hominem?

...

[Lots of irrelevant information, some anecdotes, but no evidence that massive doses of vitamin C cure anything.]
I am not a medical doctor; any suggestions are meant to be discussed with your doctor.
Age: 60, Ht: 5'10", Wt: 154 lbs
Protocol: 3.2 mg TE subQ qd, 2.4 mg TP subQ qd, 20 mcg GnRH subQ 5.25x/d, 6.25 mg DHEA bid, 12.5 mg enclomiphene qod
Approximate levels (peak): TT: 700 ng/dL, E2: 30 pg/mL, DHEA-S: 300 ug/dL, SHBG: 30 nMol/L

retado

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Re: Journal Case Studies Showing Vitamin C Cures Nastiest of Viruses
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2016, 03:38:02 am »

why do you think most MDs are on your side?

Non sequitur? Ad hominem?

not even close
I will try to break it down so you can understand why I made that comment

the question was "why isnt there research to show vit C/pauling therapy works"
and I answered it 2 fold
1 there is no money in doing that
2 why do you think the MD gives a shit want to help you be healthier/on your side?

MDs do what they are trained to do, doing that means they can't be sued, as they are covering their butts

dont believe that?
Dr levy,. MD, talks about that
Vitamin C And The Law
A Personal Viewpoint by Thomas E. Levy, M.D., J.D.
orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v06n26.shtml

thinking a  MD is on your side is like thinking a random mechanic is going to give  you a $1 bolt instead of a costly  new car part(heart treatment)
do your resarch

hope this clears it up for you

or look at this link which has references to support
5 Common Medical Procedures (That Secretly Aren't Worth It)
http://www.cracked.com/article_18840_5-common-medical-procedures-that-secretly-arent-worth-it.html

CTs are in their as at regular exams


any more questions?


retado

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Re: Journal Case Studies Showing Vitamin C Cures Nastiest of Viruses
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2016, 03:42:53 am »
[Lots of irrelevant information, some anecdotes, but no evidence that massive doses of vitamin C cure anything.]

is english your first language?
YOu seemed to overlook a LOT.
did read anything?
yes, but did you not understand parts?

and no one talked about MASSIVE amounts of anything?
It seems you might read stuff, but did you not understand


do you understand why you need vit C?
did you not see what happened when guinea pigs were given a diet with no  vit C compared to with vit C?
Did you understand about how the body need collagen?

 I wasnt talking about vit C and Infectious dz, I was talking about vit C and heart disease. you understood that?

I can't help you unless you have a question and not just an ignorant off the cuff  remarks because you dont understand science.


Kierkegaard

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Re: Journal Case Studies Showing Vitamin C Cures Nastiest of Viruses
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2016, 07:07:14 am »
I'm a bit at a crossroads with vitamin C.  There's no doubt it has its benefits and is an excellent antioxidant, but for people with stress hormone problems it could potentially make things worse.  This is because vitamin C is a cofactor for dopamine beta hydroxylase, which converts dopamine to norepinephrine, increasing the latter and potentially lowering the former.  Higher norepinephrine can be good news for many people, especially if their lack of energy is related to low levels of this catecholamine, but it can be a problem for people with norepinephrine problems, e.g., chronic stress, adrenal fatigue, chronic inflammation, etc.   
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ghce

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Re: Journal Case Studies Showing Vitamin C Cures Nastiest of Viruses
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2016, 07:44:18 am »
I'm a bit at a crossroads with vitamin C.  There's no doubt it has its benefits and is an excellent antioxidant, but for people with stress hormone problems it could potentially make things worse.  This is because vitamin C is a cofactor for dopamine beta hydroxylase, which converts dopamine to norepinephrine, increasing the latter and potentially lowering the former.  Higher norepinephrine can be good news for many people, especially if their lack of energy is related to low levels of this catecholamine, but it can be a problem for people with norepinephrine problems, e.g., chronic stress, adrenal fatigue, chronic inflammation, etc.   

Granted that this may be the case however the use of high dose intravenous Vitamin C is for one off treatment for fatal or extremely debilitating life threatening disease not a holistic life program.
After all you dont do Chemo or radiation therapy for life or you would soon expire. High dose C is just another potential tool in the armoury against chronic disease or cancer.
Age:60, Height 6' 3" weight 100KG
2014 Androderm Patches
2014-2016 Oral Andriol 160mg Daily
June 2016 Clomid/Serophene 12.5mg EOD
September 2016 no TRT all natural and supplements for the time being
February 2017 Testosterone cream 100mg daily

Sept 2016
Testosterone   8.2 nmol/l   9-38
Free Testosterone   239 pmol/l   L   250-800
SHBG:  14    nmol/L   9-60
Free Androgen index   586   >400
Oestradiol    112   pmol/L    <190
LH    2.6 IU/L Adult male   2 - 9 IU/L
FSH  1.4 IU/L Adult male L2 - 12 IU/L

22 November
T 6.8  nmol/L ( 9-38 ) L

March 2017
Testosterone:   45.0  nmol/L ( 9-38 ) H ( 1,323 ng/dl )
Free Testosterone:   1512  pmol/L ( 250-800 ) H
SHBG:   17  nmol/L ( 9-60 )
Plasma IGF-1:   227 ug/L ( 55-198 ) H
Plasma cortisol:   434 nmol/L ( 0600-1000 hrs 170-500 nmol/L )
HbA1c:   36 mmol/mol ( 20-40 )
LH:   <0.1 IU/L
FSH:   0.1 IU/L
DHT Plasma Dihydrotestosterone:   7455   pmol/L ( 223 ng/dl ) 
Reference Range Adult males  1000-6000 pmol/L

PeakT

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Re: Journal Case Studies Showing Vitamin C Cures Nastiest of Viruses
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2016, 12:59:40 pm »

[Lots of irrelevant information, some anecdotes, but no evidence that massive doses of vitamin C cure anything.]

All the above case studies, including the two modern ones, give many many multiple times the RDA of Vitamin C.  So it's a "massive" dose by any standards.  Again, you have to give massive doses in order to increase peroxide levels on inflamed tissues which is how this high dose Vitamin C works.

Cataceous, I also want you to think about something.  By saying there is no evidence, you have just thrown out:

a) two modern studies

b) multiple case studies from multiple authors in older journals

I think you are saying that you'd like a double blind, crossover study and a completed phase III trial.  For you that is "evidence" I guess.  And that's fine.  I think that's the ideal, though, because that process is just so costly.

Thank of the TRT that we all enjoy:  NONE of the protocols were developed in those kind of studies.  In fact, now Big Pharma has come in and tried to take over this market and is only having minimal success.  But those kind of protocols were developed by passionate physicians working in the background.  None of it came out of rigorous trials.

We would all still be in the dark ages of TRT if we relied on your standards for "evidence."
« Last Edit: August 28, 2016, 01:08:28 pm by PeakT »
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If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

Cataceous

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Re: Journal Case Studies Showing Vitamin C Cures Nastiest of Viruses
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2016, 01:39:34 pm »
the question was "why isnt there research to show vit C/pauling therapy works"
and I answered it 2 fold
1 there is no money in doing that

Of course I believe the "money" argument has been well refuted. To repeat: our government funds a large chunk, if not the majority, of basic research. And you can be sure there's no money in a large chunk, if not the majority, of this research. Why not just acknowledge that research into high-dose C isn't funded because earlier work did not bear fruit? And why hasn't the Linus Pauling Institute already done such studies? It does get plenty of taxpayer money:

Quote from: Wikipedia
The Linus Pauling Institute receives a significant amount of research funding from the National Institutes of Health (NIH). ...

The answer is that LPI "has evolved into a respectable organization."

2 why do you think the MD gives a shit want to help you be healthier/on your side?

MDs do what they are trained to do, doing that means they can't be sued, as they are covering their butts

dont believe that?
Dr levy,. MD, talks about that
Vitamin C And The Law
A Personal Viewpoint by Thomas E. Levy, M.D., J.D.
orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v06n26.shtml

thinking a  MD is on your side is like thinking a random mechanic is going to give  you a $1 bolt instead of a costly  new car part(heart treatment)
do your resarch

hope this clears it up for you

or look at this link which has references to support
5 Common Medical Procedures (That Secretly Aren't Worth It)
http://www.cracked.com/article_18840_5-common-medical-procedures-that-secretly-arent-worth-it.html

CTs are in their as at regular exams


any more questions?

Go ahead, libel all the MDs.  You take structural problems with the field of medicine and twist them into a nasty personal attack. This approach gives you zero credibility. My GP doesn't care about my health? She's just in it for the big bucks? Hahahahaha.
I am not a medical doctor; any suggestions are meant to be discussed with your doctor.
Age: 60, Ht: 5'10", Wt: 154 lbs
Protocol: 3.2 mg TE subQ qd, 2.4 mg TP subQ qd, 20 mcg GnRH subQ 5.25x/d, 6.25 mg DHEA bid, 12.5 mg enclomiphene qod
Approximate levels (peak): TT: 700 ng/dL, E2: 30 pg/mL, DHEA-S: 300 ug/dL, SHBG: 30 nMol/L

Cataceous

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Re: Journal Case Studies Showing Vitamin C Cures Nastiest of Viruses
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2016, 01:56:47 pm »
is english your first language?

Do orthomolecular supporters believe ad hominem attacks strengthen an argument?

and no one talked about MASSIVE amounts of anything?
...
do you understand why you need vit C?
did you not see what happened when guinea pigs were given a diet with no  vit C compared to with vit C?
Did you understand about how the body need collagen?

 I wasnt talking about vit C and Infectious dz, I was talking about vit C and heart disease. you understood that?

I can't help you unless you have a question and not just an ignorant off the cuff  remarks because you dont understand science.

The necessity of vitamin C is well established. Mainstream science has shown this, along with the utility of supplementing to achieve normal body levels when needed, such as during certain types of illnesses. However, this is a far cry from the megadoses advocated by the orthomolecular camp. Which group are you in?

The original topic was viruses, but if you want to bring in heart disease, feel free. The article on cost you linked to concludes:

Quote
There are no obvious solutions to this, while we remain attached to a non-centralized third-party payment system. ...

But are you claiming that vitamin C supplementation is the answer? For the nth time, bring on the evidence.
I am not a medical doctor; any suggestions are meant to be discussed with your doctor.
Age: 60, Ht: 5'10", Wt: 154 lbs
Protocol: 3.2 mg TE subQ qd, 2.4 mg TP subQ qd, 20 mcg GnRH subQ 5.25x/d, 6.25 mg DHEA bid, 12.5 mg enclomiphene qod
Approximate levels (peak): TT: 700 ng/dL, E2: 30 pg/mL, DHEA-S: 300 ug/dL, SHBG: 30 nMol/L

PeakT

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Re: Journal Case Studies Showing Vitamin C Cures Nastiest of Viruses
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2016, 04:06:08 pm »
Retado:  I know you feel that Cataceous is not listening nor reading what you write.  You still have to keep it civil.  You will force me to lock this thread, which i really don't want to do, if you can't keep the personal insults out of it. 
« Last Edit: August 28, 2016, 04:32:22 pm by PeakT »
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If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

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Re: Journal Case Studies Showing Vitamin C Cures Nastiest of Viruses
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2016, 04:38:50 pm »

But are you claiming that vitamin C supplementation is the answer? For the nth time, bring on the evidence.

Okay, Cataceous, I think I see what you are saying - at least to a certain extent.  I guess I will argue for you, since I don't think you are articulating your position very well to be frank.  One thing you could say is, "It has been 66 years since Kleener, so why aren't there more miracle cures out there?"

Okay, that is a fair question if that is what you are asking.  And let's face it:  there needs to be more evidence and more cases before anyone can assign any kind of #s to it.

But I guess what I feel that you are ignoring - and I find it complete exasperating - is that this is SO cheap and has NO known side effects.  I cannot understand why a caring human being would not be excited about it?

I'm just being honest, but am trying to give you the benefit of the doubt here.  You've got someone lying in a hospital bed on death's door with dengue, West Nile virus or encephalitis.  Why not give the poor guy Vitamin C in his IV.  Jeez, it would probaby cost $50 for the hospital to do that and you might just save the guy's life.

Now I agree with you that we don't know if it's a 10% or a 100% chance at this point?  But just try it!  What do you have to lose?
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
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If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

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Re: Journal Case Studies Showing Vitamin C Cures Nastiest of Viruses
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2016, 04:38:50 pm »