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Author Topic: Anyone Try Glutathione (not just NAC)?  (Read 24908 times)

Kierkegaard

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Anyone Try Glutathione (not just NAC)?
« on: October 12, 2016, 07:25:05 pm »
I'm thinking of dropping $60 and getting some liposomal glutathione because of the stuff I've been seeing on chronic fatigue (my big issue, recently slight-moderately better with 200 mg coq10, iodine, and sea salt, can't tell which is the big factor).  Dan Purser, a doctor who writes (decently) on methylation said he doesn't think NAC does anything unless you have needs for cycsteine.

Anyone have any experiences with glutathione?
"The same thing that makes you live can kill you in the end." -- Neil Young

March 2014: Dx low T (158ng/dl)
September 2015: Dx hypothyroidism, other adrenal hypofunction
2016: chronic fatigue, unspecified

Depression and anxiety guide: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Help_Anxiety_Depression

PeakT

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Re: Anyone Try Glutathione (not just NAC)?
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2016, 08:43:30 pm »
I'm thinking of dropping $60 and getting some liposomal glutathione because of the stuff I've been seeing on chronic fatigue (my big issue, recently slight-moderately better with 200 mg coq10, iodine, and sea salt, can't tell which is the big factor).  Dan Purser, a doctor who writes (decently) on methylation said he doesn't think NAC does anything unless you have needs for cycsteine.

Anyone have any experiences with glutathione?

I took jarrow's glutathione for awhile.  Did it work?  No idea.  Supposedly some of the forms can make it past digestion.

Food for thought:  grape seed extract can give a nice boost to glutathione per some research.

You're aware of that NAC-possibly-inducing-cancer study, right?
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Re: Anyone Try Glutathione (not just NAC)?
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2016, 08:43:30 pm »


Kierkegaard

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Re: Anyone Try Glutathione (not just NAC)?
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2016, 08:49:17 pm »
I'm thinking of dropping $60 and getting some liposomal glutathione because of the stuff I've been seeing on chronic fatigue (my big issue, recently slight-moderately better with 200 mg coq10, iodine, and sea salt, can't tell which is the big factor).  Dan Purser, a doctor who writes (decently) on methylation said he doesn't think NAC does anything unless you have needs for cycsteine.

Anyone have any experiences with glutathione?

I took jarrow's glutathione for awhile.  Did it work?  No idea.  Supposedly some of the forms can make it past digestion.

Food for thought:  grape seed extract can give a nice boost to glutathione per some research.

You're aware of that NAC-possibly-inducing-cancer study, right?

Vaguely.  Didn't do anything for me, so I dropped it anyways. 
"The same thing that makes you live can kill you in the end." -- Neil Young

March 2014: Dx low T (158ng/dl)
September 2015: Dx hypothyroidism, other adrenal hypofunction
2016: chronic fatigue, unspecified

Depression and anxiety guide: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Help_Anxiety_Depression

Alex J

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Re: Anyone Try Glutathione (not just NAC)?
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2016, 10:27:34 pm »
NAC did nothing for me either.  My goal was the same as yours to increase glutathione for chronic fatigue.  How long have you been fatigued kierkegaard?  I feel like HRT worsened my state of fatigue over the course of a few years.  Of course life played its part too but it is a theory I have been pondering recently.

I experienced a nice mood boost in the brief time I used grape seed extract coincidentally or not.
Been on HRT since 07/2013.

Current Regiment: 100mg test cream/day + 15mg pregenelone/day

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Re: Anyone Try Glutathione (not just NAC)?
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2016, 10:27:34 pm »


Kierkegaard

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Re: Anyone Try Glutathione (not just NAC)?
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2016, 11:33:24 pm »
NAC did nothing for me either.  My goal was the same as yours to increase glutathione for chronic fatigue.  How long have you been fatigued kierkegaard?  I feel like HRT worsened my state of fatigue over the course of a few years.  Of course life played its part too but it is a theory I have been pondering recently.

I experienced a nice mood boost in the brief time I used grape seed extract coincidentally or not.

I've been fatigued my entire life, but it came to a head a few years ago.  So, this leads me to think there's likely a genetic component, especially since my brother has chronic fatigue (just not as bad as me), and to a lesser degree my mom.  I have a heck of a lot of homozygous polymorphisms, including SOD2, which increases oxidative stress.  I'm playing with higher doses (currently 200 mg) of coq10, which seem to be helping with fatigue (hard to say since I've also been taking iodine, sea salt, and one or two other supplements), and plan on upping the dosage 100-200 more mg to see how things pan out.  There's a supplement called Mitoq, which Joseph from selfhacked.com has associated with brain fog and SOD2, so I'll give that a shot as well.

My fatigue wasn't worse from TRT, but my brain fog got noticeably worse because my E2 was too high, which lowering my dose and adding DIM helped tremendously for a few weeks, then gradually over the next year I started to get chronic fatigue worse and worse. 
"The same thing that makes you live can kill you in the end." -- Neil Young

March 2014: Dx low T (158ng/dl)
September 2015: Dx hypothyroidism, other adrenal hypofunction
2016: chronic fatigue, unspecified

Depression and anxiety guide: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Help_Anxiety_Depression

Alex J

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Re: Anyone Try Glutathione (not just NAC)?
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2016, 05:05:05 am »
How is your stress level?  Thyroid and cortisol?  I know you are very well versed in this stuff but I always wondered if chronic fatigue syndrome was just a late stage of adrenal fatigue..?

I've mentioned it a few times on this site recently but adrenal fatigue caused me hell for a few years and it is still something I need to consistently attend too.  I am very passionate about keeping the adrenals happy
Been on HRT since 07/2013.

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ghce

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Re: Anyone Try Glutathione (not just NAC)?
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2016, 06:18:26 am »
Did you look into possible Gilberts Syndrome? evidenced by greatly varying Bilirubin levels
Age:60, Height 6' 3" weight 100KG
2014 Androderm Patches
2014-2016 Oral Andriol 160mg Daily
June 2016 Clomid/Serophene 12.5mg EOD
September 2016 no TRT all natural and supplements for the time being
February 2017 Testosterone cream 100mg daily

Sept 2016
Testosterone   8.2 nmol/l   9-38
Free Testosterone   239 pmol/l   L   250-800
SHBG:  14    nmol/L   9-60
Free Androgen index   586   >400
Oestradiol    112   pmol/L    <190
LH    2.6 IU/L Adult male   2 - 9 IU/L
FSH  1.4 IU/L Adult male L2 - 12 IU/L

22 November
T 6.8  nmol/L ( 9-38 ) L

March 2017
Testosterone:   45.0  nmol/L ( 9-38 ) H ( 1,323 ng/dl )
Free Testosterone:   1512  pmol/L ( 250-800 ) H
SHBG:   17  nmol/L ( 9-60 )
Plasma IGF-1:   227 ug/L ( 55-198 ) H
Plasma cortisol:   434 nmol/L ( 0600-1000 hrs 170-500 nmol/L )
HbA1c:   36 mmol/mol ( 20-40 )
LH:   <0.1 IU/L
FSH:   0.1 IU/L
DHT Plasma Dihydrotestosterone:   7455   pmol/L ( 223 ng/dl ) 
Reference Range Adult males  1000-6000 pmol/L

Kierkegaard

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Re: Anyone Try Glutathione (not just NAC)?
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2016, 08:55:44 am »
How is your stress level?  Thyroid and cortisol?  I know you are very well versed in this stuff but I always wondered if chronic fatigue syndrome was just a late stage of adrenal fatigue..?

I've mentioned it a few times on this site recently but adrenal fatigue caused me hell for a few years and it is still something I need to consistently attend too.  I am very passionate about keeping the adrenals happy

Psychological stress is fine.  The question Dr Mariano and I are trying to solve is if there's some sort of chronic inflammation going on that's increasing stress hormones.  I have pretty clear symptoms of low thyroid, but when I try to increase my dose from 50 mcg T4 to more, or try NDT or T3, I get worse fatigue and brain fog -- the opposite of what you'd expect with hyperthyroid reactions.  My hypothesis is that I'm having mitochondrial issues that are preventing thyroid from drawing on ATP, or possibly iodine deficiency (currently supplementing). 

Cortisol was always slightly low in the morning and fine if not touching the upper edge of high at other times in the day (and normal at night).  I tried up to 30 mg of hydrocortisone, thinking it would help thyroid get into cells, without any clear benefit in symptoms, and ended up dropping it because it caused my adrenal hormones other than cortisol (progesterone, pregnenolone, and DHEA primarily) to go too low, which cumulatively can have a worse effect than not being on HC. 

What were your adrenal levels (ACTH and cortisol especially) with adrenal fatigue?  My case has involved borderline high ACTH and previously over the range DHEA(S), which is the opposite picture of how adrenal fatigue goes.  With my disproportionately low cortisol in relation to ACTH, I thought I had some slight version of congenital adrenal hyperplasia, where an enzyme deficiency causes low cortisol and (by feedback to the brain) high ACTH and therefore high DHEA. 

In the last few weeks I've noticeably gotten better with mood, fatigue, brain fog, and needing less sleep -- not dramatically with the latter three, but still noticeable.  I've attributed this to taking 200 mg of coq10 (was below the range last year when pulled), and/or iodine, sea salt, and one or two other supplements that are slipping my mind at the moment.
"The same thing that makes you live can kill you in the end." -- Neil Young

March 2014: Dx low T (158ng/dl)
September 2015: Dx hypothyroidism, other adrenal hypofunction
2016: chronic fatigue, unspecified

Depression and anxiety guide: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Help_Anxiety_Depression

Kierkegaard

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Re: Anyone Try Glutathione (not just NAC)?
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2016, 08:57:04 am »
Did you look into possible Gilberts Syndrome? evidenced by greatly varying Bilirubin levels

Negative for me.  Bilirubin levels have looked fine.  But since you bring up the liver, one of the things that happened two years ago was I couldn't get my urine to be clear anymore after drinking too much water (a slightly bad thing, as this depletes B2).  None of my docs have done anything about this. 
"The same thing that makes you live can kill you in the end." -- Neil Young

March 2014: Dx low T (158ng/dl)
September 2015: Dx hypothyroidism, other adrenal hypofunction
2016: chronic fatigue, unspecified

Depression and anxiety guide: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Help_Anxiety_Depression

tre

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Re: Anyone Try Glutathione (not just NAC)?
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2016, 09:03:09 pm »
I have been using Liposomal Glutathione for over a year...nearly everyday.  I started using it after a Micronutrient test showing that I basically had ZERO.  After about a year, I did another Micronutrient test and my Glutathione levels were nice and high.  I didn't take Glutathione for 2 days before the test, but still had good levels.  I've continued to take it as my stress levels are ridiculous all the time....basically fight or flight 24/7.  I'll stop taking it once the stress levels go down, which I hope will be within 3-4 years.  I've also had Adrenal fatigue (extremely LOW cortisol), hypothyroidism, etc...the list goes on an on.  I take too many supplements and meds but I just figure I'll take them until life gets manageable.  I'm convinced that stress causes most, if not all, of my health issues. 

Alex J

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Re: Anyone Try Glutathione (not just NAC)?
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2016, 11:38:58 pm »
Im sorry but I do not have exact cortisol levels in front of me I just know they were low in the morning and stayed low all throughout the day.

http://hormonerestoration.com/Hormones.html  If you read the cortisol and thyroid information on this site it might explain why you feel worse increasing your thyroid if you have low cortisol.  If the thyroid picks up the pace it may increase your need for more cortisol.

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info/ More good info on thyroid and adrenal fatigue. 

I am also in a position where I am trying to increase my cortisol and t3 but it is hard to manage both. I did not do well on hydrocortisone it gave me splitting headaches.
Been on HRT since 07/2013.

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Kierkegaard

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Re: Anyone Try Glutathione (not just NAC)?
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2016, 09:45:16 pm »
Im sorry but I do not have exact cortisol levels in front of me I just know they were low in the morning and stayed low all throughout the day.

http://hormonerestoration.com/Hormones.html  If you read the cortisol and thyroid information on this site it might explain why you feel worse increasing your thyroid if you have low cortisol.  If the thyroid picks up the pace it may increase your need for more cortisol.

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info/ More good info on thyroid and adrenal fatigue. 

I am also in a position where I am trying to increase my cortisol and t3 but it is hard to manage both. I did not do well on hydrocortisone it gave me splitting headaches.

Yeah, but folks with insufficient cortisol who take NDT or T3 (and possibly T4) tend to feel hyperthyroid, and I felt more hypothyroid.  Plus I tried up to 30 mg of HC with no success, so cortisol isn't my problem, unless I have glucocorticoid resistance, which again is doubtful because I don't have hypoglycemia or other issues.

BTW, the Stop the Thyroid Madness 2 book is a great resource for thyroid stuff because it's written by actual doctors.
"The same thing that makes you live can kill you in the end." -- Neil Young

March 2014: Dx low T (158ng/dl)
September 2015: Dx hypothyroidism, other adrenal hypofunction
2016: chronic fatigue, unspecified

Depression and anxiety guide: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Help_Anxiety_Depression

PeakT

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Re: Anyone Try Glutathione (not just NAC)?
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2016, 11:50:53 pm »
I have been using Liposomal Glutathione for over a year...nearly everyday.  I started using it after a Micronutrient test showing that I basically had ZERO.  After about a year, I did another Micronutrient test and my Glutathione levels were nice and high.  I didn't take Glutathione for 2 days before the test, but still had good levels.  I've continued to take it as my stress levels are ridiculous all the time....basically fight or flight 24/7.  I'll stop taking it once the stress levels go down, which I hope will be within 3-4 years.  I've also had Adrenal fatigue (extremely LOW cortisol), hypothyroidism, etc...the list goes on an on.  I take too many supplements and meds but I just figure I'll take them until life gets manageable.  I'm convinced that stress causes most, if not all, of my health issues.

What lab did you use to pull this?

And what brand did you use for the liposomal glutathione?  Sounds interesting...
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

Joe Sixpack

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Re: Anyone Try Glutathione (not just NAC)?
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2016, 04:25:28 am »
I have tried the cheap glutathione.  As expected it didn't do anything for me.  I haven't tried the liposomal type.
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tre

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Re: Anyone Try Glutathione (not just NAC)?
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2016, 05:25:56 pm »
I have been using Liposomal Glutathione for over a year...nearly everyday.  I started using it after a Micronutrient test showing that I basically had ZERO.  After about a year, I did another Micronutrient test and my Glutathione levels were nice and high.  I didn't take Glutathione for 2 days before the test, but still had good levels.  I've continued to take it as my stress levels are ridiculous all the time....basically fight or flight 24/7.  I'll stop taking it once the stress levels go down, which I hope will be within 3-4 years.  I've also had Adrenal fatigue (extremely LOW cortisol), hypothyroidism, etc...the list goes on an on.  I take too many supplements and meds but I just figure I'll take them until life gets manageable.  I'm convinced that stress causes most, if not all, of my health issues.

What lab did you use to pull this?

And what brand did you use for the liposomal glutathione?  Sounds interesting...

I used Spectracell Micronutrient Testing both times.  I recommend this test at least once per year to see how one is doing nutrient-wise. 

I have been using Empirical Labs Liposomal Glutathione.  It's what I used before the test so it works and its the least expensive option I have found ($45 per 4oz bottle including shipping). 

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Re: Anyone Try Glutathione (not just NAC)?
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2016, 05:25:56 pm »