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Author Topic: Low Fat Diets and Animal Protein  (Read 17926 times)

PeakT

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Re: Low Fat Diets and Animal Protein
« Reply #15 on: April 05, 2013, 01:39:11 pm »
Read 2-6 at the bottom.
why not cut/paste what you want me to read so I don't:
-have to go look
-assume what you and are talking about the same point?

Normally, I would but it's a big section and probably copyrighted material.  Trust me on this:  it's the best written passage I've seen on the chemcial differences between animal and plant protein.  I like summaries also, but this has been a burning issue for you - and it's a good one by the way - and he discusses at length with tons of studies the differences between animal and plant proteins. 

Now I will probably still eat my egg whites, which are high in methinione, but his article does make me pause and reflect.
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If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

Blade78

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Re: Low Fat Diets and Animal Protein
« Reply #16 on: April 05, 2013, 01:57:37 pm »
Read 2-6 at the bottom.
why not cut/paste what you want me to read so I don't:
-have to go look
-assume what you and are talking about the same point?

Normally, I would but it's a big section and probably copyrighted material.  Trust me on this:  it's the best written passage I've seen on the chemcial differences between animal and plant protein.  I like summaries also, but this has been a burning issue for you - and it's a good one by the way - and he discusses at length with tons of studies the differences between animal and plant proteins. 

Now I will probably still eat my egg whites, which are high in methinione, but his article does make me pause and reflect.

I dont know what section you talking about?
2-6?  I search for that and dont find it,
you can't cut/copy any of it?
I have no idea why you won't.
“Don’t you feel good when you go to the gym?’ Not at all. There’s too many people in-shape there. When I go to McDonald’s I feel great. At McDonald’s I’m Matthew McConaughey.” --Jim Gaffigan - Mr. Universe

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Re: Low Fat Diets and Animal Protein
« Reply #16 on: April 05, 2013, 01:57:37 pm »


Blade78

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Re: Low Fat Diets and Animal Protein
« Reply #17 on: April 05, 2013, 02:04:07 pm »
McDougall brings up some interesting arguments regarding animal proteins and I would guess summarizes one side pretty well:

http://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2004nl/040100puproteinoverload.htm

For example, I think you'll want to read his section on the sulfur-containing amino acids and what excess consumption of them can do.
if this is the section you want me to read, I did.
but I don't know, so I won't waste my time commenting on it.
Id think you could say a  keyword or comment about the section you want me to read, but the "2-6" at the bottom of the page, hasnt panned out
this idea of posting reminds me of the movie, Forks over Knives" where they say the reason people love fast food is because people do things by 3 prime directives in the brain
Forks Over Knives. http://www.forksoverknives.com/. The two doctors: 1. We seek pleasure (food, sex). 2. We try to avoid pain. 3. We do everything we can with the least amount of effort – called conservation of energy
you are really conserving energy by not saying anything to lead me to read what you want
 I have other things to do, later


« Last Edit: April 05, 2013, 02:09:01 pm by watchntv »
“Don’t you feel good when you go to the gym?’ Not at all. There’s too many people in-shape there. When I go to McDonald’s I feel great. At McDonald’s I’m Matthew McConaughey.” --Jim Gaffigan - Mr. Universe

PeakT

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Re: Low Fat Diets and Animal Protein
« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2013, 04:05:31 pm »
I'm like you:  I don't like it when people give me big papers to read or videos to watch - wasn't trying to be difficult.  It's just a very big section and I don't feel good about copying it all as I stated.
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And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

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Re: Low Fat Diets and Animal Protein
« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2013, 04:05:31 pm »


Blade78

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Re: Low Fat Diets and Animal Protein
« Reply #19 on: April 05, 2013, 04:18:19 pm »
I'm like you:  I don't like it when people give me big papers to read or videos to watch - wasn't trying to be difficult.  It's just a very big section and I don't feel good about copying it all as I stated.
no big deal.....
hey, I found a  book at the library on how to gain muscle/ be younger and be taller, all by doing 3 things
the book is too big to copy/paste, so just head over to the library, I'm sure you'll see it 8)


eh?\\
NO, I cant tell you keywords in the title
no, I cant give you a summary
no, i cant figure out how to  tell you where it is besides saying its at the library...unless the book is checked out....then its not, but I feel good to not give you hints to help you look, seeing as giving you hints would make me NOT FEEL GOOOOOOODDDDD
good luck!
« Last Edit: April 05, 2013, 04:22:34 pm by watchntv »
“Don’t you feel good when you go to the gym?’ Not at all. There’s too many people in-shape there. When I go to McDonald’s I feel great. At McDonald’s I’m Matthew McConaughey.” --Jim Gaffigan - Mr. Universe

PeakT

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Re: Low Fat Diets and Animal Protein
« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2013, 04:23:15 pm »

no big deal.....
hey, I found a  book at the library on how to gain muscle/ be younger and be taller, all by doing 3 things
the book is too big to copy/paste, so just head over to the library, I'm sure you'll see it 8)

Remember:  the issue, for you and me anyway, is really whether or not animal protein causes cancer.  Obviously, low fat will protect the cardiovascular system.  Again, McDougall goes into quite a bit of detail about this topic.
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
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And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

Blade78

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Re: Low Fat Diets and Animal Protein
« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2013, 04:36:59 pm »

no big deal.....
hey, I found a  book at the library on how to gain muscle/ be younger and be taller, all by doing 3 things
the book is too big to copy/paste, so just head over to the library, I'm sure you'll see it 8)

Remember:  the issue, for you and me anyway, is really whether or not animal protein causes cancer.  Obviously, low fat will protect the cardiovascular system.  Again, McDougall goes into quite a bit of detail about this topic.

I dont know where you mean, I've made a few suggestions to ask what you are talking about?
no response from you to indicate where to go cept the Mcdougall library and "2-6"
obviously, Im not sure what you are thinking?
but you are like me, trying to do the most with typing the least
obviously, you are better at this than I am
“Don’t you feel good when you go to the gym?’ Not at all. There’s too many people in-shape there. When I go to McDonald’s I feel great. At McDonald’s I’m Matthew McConaughey.” --Jim Gaffigan - Mr. Universe

PeakT

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Re: Low Fat Diets and Animal Protein
« Reply #22 on: April 05, 2013, 04:41:42 pm »

I dont know where you mean, I've made a few suggestions to ask what you are talking about?
no response from you to indicate where to go cept the Mcdougall library and "2-6"
obviously, Im not sure what you are thinking?
but you are like me, trying to do the most with typing the least
obviously, you are better at this than I am

"3) Sulfur feeds cancerous tumors.  Cancer cell metabolism is dependent upon methionine being in the diet; whereas, normal cells can grow on a methionine-free diet (feeding off of other sulfur-containing amino acids).  This methionine-dependency has been demonstrated for breast, lung, colon, kidney, melanoma, and brain cancers.31,32  Increasing methionine in the diet of animals promotes the growth of cancer.33"
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

Blade78

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Re: Low Fat Diets and Animal Protein
« Reply #23 on: April 05, 2013, 05:00:24 pm »


"3) Sulfur feeds cancerous tumors.  Cancer cell metabolism is dependent upon methionine being in the diet; whereas, normal cells can grow on a methionine-free diet (feeding off of other sulfur-containing amino acids).  This methionine-dependency has been demonstrated for breast, lung, colon, kidney, melanoma, and brain cancers.31,32  Increasing methionine in the diet of animals promotes the growth of cancer.33"
edited my post much?

I dont know how much I buy into this for 2 reasons:

1. I dont see evidence to support this, if there was evidence, that would be highlighted and not just a footnote as a study done that proves the thesis, "that animal protein is bad over plant protein"
that would be what Forks over knives was about, not about how dieting  helps people stop being fat.

2, as I cited a problem with the Forks over knives  mouse study
http://anthonycolpo.com/forks-over-knives-the-latest-vegan-nonsense-dissected-debunked-and-destroyed/
One of Campbell’s pivotal arguments in The China Study, repeated in Forks Over Knives, was research showing that rodents administered aflatoxin were more likely to get cancer if they ate high-protein (20%) diets. According to Campbell, the furry little buggers fed low-protein (5%) diets were less likely to develop malignant tumours. The protein in these diets was derived from casein, one of the two main protein fractions of dairy (whey being the other).
Sounds like a pretty damning indictment of high-protein diets, doesn’t it? Well, at least if you’re dumb enough to overlook the fact that virtually no human derives all his/her protein from casein. And that no human is a rat…physiologically speaking, that is.
And there’s one other teeny weeny detail that Campbell conveniently neglected to mention: the low-protein rats died at an earlier age! No wonder they got less cancer – they didn’t long enough to develop malignant tumours



“Don’t you feel good when you go to the gym?’ Not at all. There’s too many people in-shape there. When I go to McDonald’s I feel great. At McDonald’s I’m Matthew McConaughey.” --Jim Gaffigan - Mr. Universe

PeakT

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Re: Low Fat Diets and Animal Protein
« Reply #24 on: April 05, 2013, 05:35:03 pm »
You're acting like I'm definitely saying that animal protein causes cancer.  I am not.  I am simply saying that it may in some cases and am just giving you some of the information so that you can decide for yourself.  My own personal feelings is that it probably does not assuming one has a good lifestyle (lots of fruits/veges, exercise, low fat, etc.)  But that's just a guess.

One thing you can do is to actually measure, for example, your IGF-1.  See if it looks high.

And, yes, I just remove the whiney posts now - it makes the forum look weird - and I've told you I am going to do that.  You have a lot of great ideas, but almost everyone who shows up here wants a non-dysfunctional, non-dramatic forum. 
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

Blade78

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Re: Low Fat Diets and Animal Protein
« Reply #25 on: April 05, 2013, 11:15:40 pm »
You're acting like I'm definitely saying that animal protein causes cancer.  I am not.  I am simply saying that it may in some cases and am just giving you some of the information so that you can decide for yourself.  My own personal feelings is that it probably does not assuming one has a good lifestyle (lots of fruits/veges, exercise, low fat, etc.)  But that's just a guess.

One thing you can do is to actually measure, for example, your IGF-1.  See if it looks high.

And, yes, I just remove the whiney posts now - it makes the forum look weird - and I've told you I am going to do that.  You have a lot of great ideas, but almost everyone who shows up here wants a non-dysfunctional, non-dramatic forum.

I wasnt directing my critic of what .dr.mcdougall said/wrote, at you.
It was my breakdown of what he said/advocated.
3) Sulfur feeds cancerous tumors.  Cancer cell metabolism is dependent upon methionine being in the diet
my other thought about his claim that sulfur is that I'm pretty sure humans have been eating meat(sulfur amino acids) since they started going through evolution.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/04/120420105539.htm
Apr. 19, 2012 — Carnivory is behind the evolutionary success of humankind. When early humans started to eat meat and eventually hunt, their new, higher-quality diet meant that women could wean their children earlier.

so have humans always been eating a carcinogenic die, ie sulfur-containing amino acids?
if I had solid evidence that soda causes cancer, i'd show that front and center.....so his "proof"/citations of proof about sulfur-containing amino acids seems to be untrue.
Im all for eating plant protein and not eating meat/eggs. I already dont eat meat, I just question what he's saying and I question aloud so I can be corrected, if possible. :)
“Don’t you feel good when you go to the gym?’ Not at all. There’s too many people in-shape there. When I go to McDonald’s I feel great. At McDonald’s I’m Matthew McConaughey.” --Jim Gaffigan - Mr. Universe

PeakT

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Re: Low Fat Diets and Animal Protein
« Reply #26 on: April 06, 2013, 12:53:46 am »


I wasnt directing my critic of what .dr.mcdougall said/wrote, at you.
It was my breakdown of what he said/advocated.
3) Sulfur feeds cancerous tumors.  Cancer cell metabolism is dependent upon methionine being in the diet
my other thought about his claim that sulfur is that I'm pretty sure humans have been eating meat(sulfur amino acids) since they started going through evolution.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/04/120420105539.htm
Apr. 19, 2012 — Carnivory is behind the evolutionary success of humankind. When early humans started to eat meat and eventually hunt, their new, higher-quality diet meant that women could wean their children earlier.

so have humans always been eating a carcinogenic die, ie sulfur-containing amino acids?
if I had solid evidence that soda causes cancer, i'd show that front and center.....so his "proof"/citations of proof about sulfur-containing amino acids seems to be untrue.
Im all for eating plant protein and not eating meat/eggs. I already dont eat meat, I just question what he's saying and I question aloud so I can be corrected, if possible. :)

First of all, we pretty much agree.  However, I disagree with what I think you are saying when you stated "Carnivory is behind the evolutionary success of humankind."  I do agree that animal products and some animal protein has been in the diet for just about forever.  But it is one thing to eat a few bugs and an egg during a day and ingest a pound of bacon, dairy and meat as many, many health-conscious people do on Low Carb and Paleo Diets.  Yes, we are clearly built to easily handle the former, but the latter is not so obvious.

Time will tell.  Hopefully, they will start doing mortality and other similar studies on these type of diets so that we can get a much better gauge.  Right now it's all guesswork and thus all the arguing.
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
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If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

Blade78

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Re: Low Fat Diets and Animal Protein
« Reply #27 on: April 06, 2013, 03:43:07 pm »
First of all, we pretty much agree.  However, I disagree with what I think you are saying when you stated "Carnivory is behind the evolutionary success of humankind."  I do agree that animal products and some animal protein has been in the diet for just about forever. But it is one thing to eat a few bugs and an egg during a day and ingest a pound of bacon, dairy and meat as many, many health-conscious people do on Low Carb and Paleo Diets.  Yes, we are clearly built to easily handle the former, but the latter is not so obvious.

Time will tell.  Hopefully, they will start doing mortality and other similar studies on these type of diets so that we can get a much better gauge.  Right now it's all guesswork and thus all the arguing.
our bodies can only work with so much damage
we get cancer cells because all the safeguards against cancer fail, at least once.
so it would make sense to reduce the damage we are doing to our bodies in areas where we know we are causing damage/making our bodies work to not get cancer,(like eating HCAs from meat. our bodies work to prevent this from causing cancer)
so if I can take anti-cancer helpers(antioxidants in form of veggies/fruit) and avoid the stuff that will accumulate and cause me problems(maybe) at some point(fat, fluoride, excitotoxins, etc) then I will
“Don’t you feel good when you go to the gym?’ Not at all. There’s too many people in-shape there. When I go to McDonald’s I feel great. At McDonald’s I’m Matthew McConaughey.” --Jim Gaffigan - Mr. Universe

Blade78

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Re: Low Fat Diets and Animal Protein
« Reply #28 on: April 06, 2013, 06:16:59 pm »

First of all, we pretty much agree.  However, I disagree with what I think you are saying when you stated "Carnivory is behind the evolutionary success of humankind."
curious as to why you think differently?
hunting meat allowed humans to stop being gatherers and go get real calories
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/04/120420105539.htm
Learning to hunt was a decisive step in human evolution. Hunting necessitated communication, planning and the use of tools, all of which demanded a larger brain. At the same time, adding meat to the diet made it possible to develop this larger brain.

"This has been known for a long time. However, no one has previously shown the strong connection between meat eating and the duration of breast-feeding, which is a crucial piece of the puzzle in this context. Eating meat enabled the breast-feeding periods and thereby the time between births, to be shortened. This must have had a crucial impact on human evolution," says Elia Psouni of Lund University

“Don’t you feel good when you go to the gym?’ Not at all. There’s too many people in-shape there. When I go to McDonald’s I feel great. At McDonald’s I’m Matthew McConaughey.” --Jim Gaffigan - Mr. Universe

PeakT

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Re: Low Fat Diets and Animal Protein
« Reply #29 on: April 06, 2013, 08:18:55 pm »

First of all, we pretty much agree.  However, I disagree with what I think you are saying when you stated "Carnivory is behind the evolutionary success of humankind."
curious as to why you think differently?
hunting meat allowed humans to stop being gatherers and go get real calories
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/04/120420105539.htm
Learning to hunt was a decisive step in human evolution. Hunting necessitated communication, planning and the use of tools, all of which demanded a larger brain. At the same time, adding meat to the diet made it possible to develop this larger brain.

"This has been known for a long time. However, no one has previously shown the strong connection between meat eating and the duration of breast-feeding, which is a crucial piece of the puzzle in this context. Eating meat enabled the breast-feeding periods and thereby the time between births, to be shortened. This must have had a crucial impact on human evolution," says Elia Psouni of Lund University

Sure.  But my point is that this did not happen until very late in our history:

https://www.peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=1166.msg10773#msg10773

Thus, this very likely accounts for a pretty small part of our genome.  Our teeth and GI tract do a good job of revealing the percentages as well.
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
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And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

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Re: Low Fat Diets and Animal Protein
« Reply #29 on: April 06, 2013, 08:18:55 pm »