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Author Topic: Just an FYI on B12 testing  (Read 6863 times)

53chevy

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Just an FYI on B12 testing
« on: March 14, 2017, 09:23:26 pm »
Don't take B12 the morning of a blood draw. Lol I completely forgot and out of habit took a sublingual 1mg b12 an hour before the draw. My B12 came back at 1185 (211-946). I thought it odd that my b12 would come up from 525 to 1185 in a month. I quit b12 last friday just to see what would happen. By Sunday the heart palps were on their way back. By yesterday afternoon they were almost in full swing again. So I started back on b12 this morning and by this afternoon they have calmed down again. I'll get it tested again in a few weeks and hopefully I'll remember to not take b12 at least 24 hours before. I might even go 2 or 3 days without taking it before I get labs done.

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Re: Just an FYI on B12 testing
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2017, 05:21:25 pm »
Don't take B12 the morning of a blood draw. Lol I completely forgot and out of habit took a sublingual 1mg b12 an hour before the draw. My B12 came back at 1185 (211-946). I thought it odd that my b12 would come up from 525 to 1185 in a month. I quit b12 last friday just to see what would happen. By Sunday the heart palps were on their way back. By yesterday afternoon they were almost in full swing again. So I started back on b12 this morning and by this afternoon they have calmed down again. I'll get it tested again in a few weeks and hopefully I'll remember to not take b12 at least 24 hours before. I might even go 2 or 3 days without taking it before I get labs done.

What's the B12 to heart palpitation connection?  I've never researched that.
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

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Re: Just an FYI on B12 testing
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2017, 05:21:25 pm »


HRT Guru

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Re: Just an FYI on B12 testing
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2017, 06:55:56 pm »
last time I tested I did take the Jarrow lozenge within 2 hours of my blood draw just to see what I got it my B12 was over lab range, not a lot, but over so I called it good and proved that that lozenge, worked.

53chevy

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Re: Just an FYI on B12 testing
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2017, 07:30:49 pm »
Don't take B12 the morning of a blood draw. Lol I completely forgot and out of habit took a sublingual 1mg b12 an hour before the draw. My B12 came back at 1185 (211-946). I thought it odd that my b12 would come up from 525 to 1185 in a month. I quit b12 last friday just to see what would happen. By Sunday the heart palps were on their way back. By yesterday afternoon they were almost in full swing again. So I started back on b12 this morning and by this afternoon they have calmed down again. I'll get it tested again in a few weeks and hopefully I'll remember to not take b12 at least 24 hours before. I might even go 2 or 3 days without taking it before I get labs done.


What's the B12 to heart palpitation connection?  I've never researched that.


I haven't really found a definitive answer on that but low b12 seems to have alot of nasty side effects, neurological being one of them. I now wonder if this is why my feet started burning about the time the heart palps started. My burning feet is from my back because I can lay on my left side and they quit burning but it could be from low b12 because it affects the myelin sheath on nerves. I've had back trouble for 20+ years but I've never had burning feet until all of this started. Who knows, b12 might just be my main issue, from what I understand it plays a big role in methylation and metabolism and when all of this started its like my metabolism just shut down.

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Re: Just an FYI on B12 testing
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2017, 07:30:49 pm »


Boxcar

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Re: Just an FYI on B12 testing
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2017, 03:14:56 am »
Don't take B12 the morning of a blood draw. Lol I completely forgot and out of habit took a sublingual 1mg b12 an hour before the draw. My B12 came back at 1185 (211-946). I thought it odd that my b12 would come up from 525 to 1185 in a month. I quit b12 last friday just to see what would happen. By Sunday the heart palps were on their way back. By yesterday afternoon they were almost in full swing again. So I started back on b12 this morning and by this afternoon they have calmed down again. I'll get it tested again in a few weeks and hopefully I'll remember to not take b12 at least 24 hours before. I might even go 2 or 3 days without taking it before I get labs done.


What's the B12 to heart palpitation connection?  I've never researched that.


I haven't really found a definitive answer on that but low b12 seems to have alot of nasty side effects, neurological being one of them. I now wonder if this is why my feet started burning about the time the heart palps started. My burning feet is from my back because I can lay on my left side and they quit burning but it could be from low b12 because it affects the myelin sheath on nerves. I've had back trouble for 20+ years but I've never had burning feet until all of this started. Who knows, b12 might just be my main issue, from what I understand it plays a big role in methylation and metabolism and when all of this started its like my metabolism just shut down.

53chevy, did b12 supplementation help relieve your pain?  What blood levels did you need before you saw improvement?  I have neuropathic pain (including the burning in the hands and feet thing) and so my doctor routinely checks it.  It looks decent, but I think you said that high-normal levels are what helped you.

My recent labs (Quest Diagnostics):

Vitamin B12  379 (210-1000 pg/ml)
Methylmalonic Acid  200 (87-318 nmol/l)
Age: 36
178 lbs 5'8''

Current Treatment: 50 mg testosterone cypionate IM, twice a week
Low T Symptoms: Chronic pelvic pain, and other neuropathic pain.  Mild anxiety, low energy and low motivation
Meds: Amitriptyline (for pain, not depression), Clonidine (for sleep, not blood pressure)

PeakT

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Re: Just an FYI on B12 testing
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2017, 04:30:38 am »
Don't take B12 the morning of a blood draw. Lol I completely forgot and out of habit took a sublingual 1mg b12 an hour before the draw. My B12 came back at 1185 (211-946). I thought it odd that my b12 would come up from 525 to 1185 in a month. I quit b12 last friday just to see what would happen. By Sunday the heart palps were on their way back. By yesterday afternoon they were almost in full swing again. So I started back on b12 this morning and by this afternoon they have calmed down again. I'll get it tested again in a few weeks and hopefully I'll remember to not take b12 at least 24 hours before. I might even go 2 or 3 days without taking it before I get labs done.


What's the B12 to heart palpitation connection?  I've never researched that.


I haven't really found a definitive answer on that but low b12 seems to have alot of nasty side effects, neurological being one of them. I now wonder if this is why my feet started burning about the time the heart palps started. My burning feet is from my back because I can lay on my left side and they quit burning but it could be from low b12 because it affects the myelin sheath on nerves. I've had back trouble for 20+ years but I've never had burning feet until all of this started. Who knows, b12 might just be my main issue, from what I understand it plays a big role in methylation and metabolism and when all of this started its like my metabolism just shut down.

You've talked about permicious anemia with your doc, right?  Sure seems to have some overlap here.
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

53chevy

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Re: Just an FYI on B12 testing
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2017, 04:35:06 am »
Don't take B12 the morning of a blood draw. Lol I completely forgot and out of habit took a sublingual 1mg b12 an hour before the draw. My B12 came back at 1185 (211-946). I thought it odd that my b12 would come up from 525 to 1185 in a month. I quit b12 last friday just to see what would happen. By Sunday the heart palps were on their way back. By yesterday afternoon they were almost in full swing again. So I started back on b12 this morning and by this afternoon they have calmed down again. I'll get it tested again in a few weeks and hopefully I'll remember to not take b12 at least 24 hours before. I might even go 2 or 3 days without taking it before I get labs done.


What's the B12 to heart palpitation connection?  I've never researched that.


I haven't really found a definitive answer on that but low b12 seems to have alot of nasty side effects, neurological being one of them. I now wonder if this is why my feet started burning about the time the heart palps started. My burning feet is from my back because I can lay on my left side and they quit burning but it could be from low b12 because it affects the myelin sheath on nerves. I've had back trouble for 20+ years but I've never had burning feet until all of this started. Who knows, b12 might just be my main issue, from what I understand it plays a big role in methylation and metabolism and when all of this started its like my metabolism just shut down.

53chevy, did b12 supplementation help relieve your pain?  What blood levels did you need before you saw improvement?  I have neuropathic pain (including the burning in the hands and feet thing) and so my doctor routinely checks it.  It looks decent, but I think you said that high-normal levels are what helped you.

My recent labs (Quest Diagnostics):

Vitamin B12  379 (210-1000 pg/ml)
Methylmalonic Acid  200 (87-318 nmol/l)

According to what I've read you need to bring your levels way up. Tingling in hands and feet is one of the symptoms of low b12 because like I said b12 helps form the myelin (it's like insulation on electrical wiring) around nerves. There are a lot of claims that the ranges are set way too low for b12 and some countries have actually raised the bottom of the level to around 500-600 instead of it being 200 like in the US. I've read lots of anecdotal instances of middling levels causing all kinds of issues but once levels were brought up to the upper range most if not all symptoms disappeared. If you've been having nerve pain for a long time it's possibly that there could be permanent damage. I found one site a couple weeks ago of a doctor going thru numerous patients' ordeals with this and he gave the starting levels, a lot of them being "in range", and told their symptoms and then they were put on b12 shots and most if not all symptoms disappeared or got much better. Some of these people lost the ability to walk and talk, some had major tingling and neuropathy, it seems to be able to cause all kinds of issues. I think it also takes awhile to get the levels back up. From what I've read your body can only absorb about 200 micro grams per feeding. Vegans seem to be plagued with this because there is no good plant source of b12, also people with gut issues have problems absorbing it. Intrinsic factor is what binds to it and allows it to be moved into the body and some people have issues producing IF due to various issues. You can bypass this issue by using sublingual tablets, which is what I'm using. You want to use METHYLcobalimin, it is the most easily absorbed.

My levels 15 months ago were 455. 4 months later is when my feet started burning and the raging heart palps started. The heart palps started after I was put back on T and I really think this is going to be my major issue that caused Trt to quit working. My theory is trt jacked my metabolism up so high and so fast (I lost 30 lbs in about 2 months) that it basically drained me of nutrients, possibly b12. Fingers crossed anyway. I started on cyanocobalimin 2 months ago and took that for a month and did labs and my levels had come up to 525. They most likely had dropped even further than the original 455 due to the heart palps startiing 4 months after I saw that 455 level but I don't know for sure. I still had heart palps at 525 but after a month I switched to methyl b12 and within a couple weeks the heart palps started easing up. I don't remember exactly when my feet quit burning so bad but it was well before I started taking b12, but I was aware that it was coming from my back so I did things to help that out. Last Saturday I picked up a drill press and carried it to my truck, it was pretty heavy, and I paid for it the next day or two. My feet were burning like the pits of hell, but like I said I never had this issue with my feet until all this other started happening so I'm betting on it being because of b12.

I started out taking the methyl b12 two at a time 3 times a day. Now I'm taking one 3 times a day. The brand I use is source naturals and they are 1mg each. You just put them under your tongue and let them dissolve. I know they work because of my over ranges levels from the last labs. I'm gonna get my levels checked again in a month or so and if they haven't came up a lot then I'm going to consider doing b12 shots for a little while and see if that speeds things up. I'm also considering starting on a B complex along with the methyl b12.

I've done LOTS of reading on b12 because it seems to be the only thing helping my heart palps so if you have any more questions feel free to ask, I'll do my best to answer them from the stuff I've read.

53chevy

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Re: Just an FYI on B12 testing
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2017, 04:39:27 am »
Don't take B12 the morning of a blood draw. Lol I completely forgot and out of habit took a sublingual 1mg b12 an hour before the draw. My B12 came back at 1185 (211-946). I thought it odd that my b12 would come up from 525 to 1185 in a month. I quit b12 last friday just to see what would happen. By Sunday the heart palps were on their way back. By yesterday afternoon they were almost in full swing again. So I started back on b12 this morning and by this afternoon they have calmed down again. I'll get it tested again in a few weeks and hopefully I'll remember to not take b12 at least 24 hours before. I might even go 2 or 3 days without taking it before I get labs done.


What's the B12 to heart palpitation connection?  I've never researched that.


I haven't really found a definitive answer on that but low b12 seems to have alot of nasty side effects, neurological being one of them. I now wonder if this is why my feet started burning about the time the heart palps started. My burning feet is from my back because I can lay on my left side and they quit burning but it could be from low b12 because it affects the myelin sheath on nerves. I've had back trouble for 20+ years but I've never had burning feet until all of this started. Who knows, b12 might just be my main issue, from what I understand it plays a big role in methylation and metabolism and when all of this started its like my metabolism just shut down.

You've talked about permicious anemia with your doc, right?  Sure seems to have some overlap here.

I don't think this is an issue with me because my RBC goes high from trt. From what I understand there are 4 stages of b12 deficiency and PA is considered the last stage.

Sighalot

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Re: Just an FYI on B12 testing
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2017, 02:26:52 am »
Don't take B12 the morning of a blood draw. Lol I completely forgot and out of habit took a sublingual 1mg b12 an hour before the draw.
Once had a doctor ordering a b12 sample 15 minutes AFTER an injection, do i need to say what the result was...

Boxcar

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Re: Just an FYI on B12 testing
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2017, 05:25:49 am »
Don't take B12 the morning of a blood draw. Lol I completely forgot and out of habit took a sublingual 1mg b12 an hour before the draw. My B12 came back at 1185 (211-946). I thought it odd that my b12 would come up from 525 to 1185 in a month. I quit b12 last friday just to see what would happen. By Sunday the heart palps were on their way back. By yesterday afternoon they were almost in full swing again. So I started back on b12 this morning and by this afternoon they have calmed down again. I'll get it tested again in a few weeks and hopefully I'll remember to not take b12 at least 24 hours before. I might even go 2 or 3 days without taking it before I get labs done.


What's the B12 to heart palpitation connection?  I've never researched that.


I haven't really found a definitive answer on that but low b12 seems to have alot of nasty side effects, neurological being one of them. I now wonder if this is why my feet started burning about the time the heart palps started. My burning feet is from my back because I can lay on my left side and they quit burning but it could be from low b12 because it affects the myelin sheath on nerves. I've had back trouble for 20+ years but I've never had burning feet until all of this started. Who knows, b12 might just be my main issue, from what I understand it plays a big role in methylation and metabolism and when all of this started its like my metabolism just shut down.

53chevy, did b12 supplementation help relieve your pain?  What blood levels did you need before you saw improvement?  I have neuropathic pain (including the burning in the hands and feet thing) and so my doctor routinely checks it.  It looks decent, but I think you said that high-normal levels are what helped you.

My recent labs (Quest Diagnostics):

Vitamin B12  379 (210-1000 pg/ml)
Methylmalonic Acid  200 (87-318 nmol/l)

According to what I've read you need to bring your levels way up. Tingling in hands and feet is one of the symptoms of low b12 because like I said b12 helps form the myelin (it's like insulation on electrical wiring) around nerves. There are a lot of claims that the ranges are set way too low for b12 and some countries have actually raised the bottom of the level to around 500-600 instead of it being 200 like in the US. I've read lots of anecdotal instances of middling levels causing all kinds of issues but once levels were brought up to the upper range most if not all symptoms disappeared. If you've been having nerve pain for a long time it's possibly that there could be permanent damage. I found one site a couple weeks ago of a doctor going thru numerous patients' ordeals with this and he gave the starting levels, a lot of them being "in range", and told their symptoms and then they were put on b12 shots and most if not all symptoms disappeared or got much better. Some of these people lost the ability to walk and talk, some had major tingling and neuropathy, it seems to be able to cause all kinds of issues. I think it also takes awhile to get the levels back up. From what I've read your body can only absorb about 200 micro grams per feeding. Vegans seem to be plagued with this because there is no good plant source of b12, also people with gut issues have problems absorbing it. Intrinsic factor is what binds to it and allows it to be moved into the body and some people have issues producing IF due to various issues. You can bypass this issue by using sublingual tablets, which is what I'm using. You want to use METHYLcobalimin, it is the most easily absorbed.

My levels 15 months ago were 455. 4 months later is when my feet started burning and the raging heart palps started. The heart palps started after I was put back on T and I really think this is going to be my major issue that caused Trt to quit working. My theory is trt jacked my metabolism up so high and so fast (I lost 30 lbs in about 2 months) that it basically drained me of nutrients, possibly b12. Fingers crossed anyway. I started on cyanocobalimin 2 months ago and took that for a month and did labs and my levels had come up to 525. They most likely had dropped even further than the original 455 due to the heart palps startiing 4 months after I saw that 455 level but I don't know for sure. I still had heart palps at 525 but after a month I switched to methyl b12 and within a couple weeks the heart palps started easing up. I don't remember exactly when my feet quit burning so bad but it was well before I started taking b12, but I was aware that it was coming from my back so I did things to help that out. Last Saturday I picked up a drill press and carried it to my truck, it was pretty heavy, and I paid for it the next day or two. My feet were burning like the pits of hell, but like I said I never had this issue with my feet until all this other started happening so I'm betting on it being because of b12.

I started out taking the methyl b12 two at a time 3 times a day. Now I'm taking one 3 times a day. The brand I use is source naturals and they are 1mg each. You just put them under your tongue and let them dissolve. I know they work because of my over ranges levels from the last labs. I'm gonna get my levels checked again in a month or so and if they haven't came up a lot then I'm going to consider doing b12 shots for a little while and see if that speeds things up. I'm also considering starting on a B complex along with the methyl b12.

I've done LOTS of reading on b12 because it seems to be the only thing helping my heart palps so if you have any more questions feel free to ask, I'll do my best to answer them from the stuff I've read.

Thanks for all the great info.  I will try those sublingual drops.  Like you, I have pain in the extremities, caused by pain elsewhere in my body (in my case, prostate pain, which started many years before TRT).  A couple of followup questions:

1) Is there any diagnostic value to Methylmalonic Acid?  My doctor seemed to think there was, but I have never looked into it.

2)  Does supplementing b12 frequently raise Hematocrit?  Trt has brought me up to 49, so I am trying to keep an eye on that.  I have read that vitamin c, folate and b12 can influence this.

Age: 36
178 lbs 5'8''

Current Treatment: 50 mg testosterone cypionate IM, twice a week
Low T Symptoms: Chronic pelvic pain, and other neuropathic pain.  Mild anxiety, low energy and low motivation
Meds: Amitriptyline (for pain, not depression), Clonidine (for sleep, not blood pressure)

53chevy

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Re: Just an FYI on B12 testing
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2017, 12:29:05 pm »
Don't take B12 the morning of a blood draw. Lol I completely forgot and out of habit took a sublingual 1mg b12 an hour before the draw. My B12 came back at 1185 (211-946). I thought it odd that my b12 would come up from 525 to 1185 in a month. I quit b12 last friday just to see what would happen. By Sunday the heart palps were on their way back. By yesterday afternoon they were almost in full swing again. So I started back on b12 this morning and by this afternoon they have calmed down again. I'll get it tested again in a few weeks and hopefully I'll remember to not take b12 at least 24 hours before. I might even go 2 or 3 days without taking it before I get labs done.


What's the B12 to heart palpitation connection?  I've never researched that.


I haven't really found a definitive answer on that but low b12 seems to have alot of nasty side effects, neurological being one of them. I now wonder if this is why my feet started burning about the time the heart palps started. My burning feet is from my back because I can lay on my left side and they quit burning but it could be from low b12 because it affects the myelin sheath on nerves. I've had back trouble for 20+ years but I've never had burning feet until all of this started. Who knows, b12 might just be my main issue, from what I understand it plays a big role in methylation and metabolism and when all of this started its like my metabolism just shut down.

53chevy, did b12 supplementation help relieve your pain?  What blood levels did you need before you saw improvement?  I have neuropathic pain (including the burning in the hands and feet thing) and so my doctor routinely checks it.  It looks decent, but I think you said that high-normal levels are what helped you.

My recent labs (Quest Diagnostics):

Vitamin B12  379 (210-1000 pg/ml)
Methylmalonic Acid  200 (87-318 nmol/l)

According to what I've read you need to bring your levels way up. Tingling in hands and feet is one of the symptoms of low b12 because like I said b12 helps form the myelin (it's like insulation on electrical wiring) around nerves. There are a lot of claims that the ranges are set way too low for b12 and some countries have actually raised the bottom of the level to around 500-600 instead of it being 200 like in the US. I've read lots of anecdotal instances of middling levels causing all kinds of issues but once levels were brought up to the upper range most if not all symptoms disappeared. If you've been having nerve pain for a long time it's possibly that there could be permanent damage. I found one site a couple weeks ago of a doctor going thru numerous patients' ordeals with this and he gave the starting levels, a lot of them being "in range", and told their symptoms and then they were put on b12 shots and most if not all symptoms disappeared or got much better. Some of these people lost the ability to walk and talk, some had major tingling and neuropathy, it seems to be able to cause all kinds of issues. I think it also takes awhile to get the levels back up. From what I've read your body can only absorb about 200 micro grams per feeding. Vegans seem to be plagued with this because there is no good plant source of b12, also people with gut issues have problems absorbing it. Intrinsic factor is what binds to it and allows it to be moved into the body and some people have issues producing IF due to various issues. You can bypass this issue by using sublingual tablets, which is what I'm using. You want to use METHYLcobalimin, it is the most easily absorbed.

My levels 15 months ago were 455. 4 months later is when my feet started burning and the raging heart palps started. The heart palps started after I was put back on T and I really think this is going to be my major issue that caused Trt to quit working. My theory is trt jacked my metabolism up so high and so fast (I lost 30 lbs in about 2 months) that it basically drained me of nutrients, possibly b12. Fingers crossed anyway. I started on cyanocobalimin 2 months ago and took that for a month and did labs and my levels had come up to 525. They most likely had dropped even further than the original 455 due to the heart palps startiing 4 months after I saw that 455 level but I don't know for sure. I still had heart palps at 525 but after a month I switched to methyl b12 and within a couple weeks the heart palps started easing up. I don't remember exactly when my feet quit burning so bad but it was well before I started taking b12, but I was aware that it was coming from my back so I did things to help that out. Last Saturday I picked up a drill press and carried it to my truck, it was pretty heavy, and I paid for it the next day or two. My feet were burning like the pits of hell, but like I said I never had this issue with my feet until all this other started happening so I'm betting on it being because of b12.

I started out taking the methyl b12 two at a time 3 times a day. Now I'm taking one 3 times a day. The brand I use is source naturals and they are 1mg each. You just put them under your tongue and let them dissolve. I know they work because of my over ranges levels from the last labs. I'm gonna get my levels checked again in a month or so and if they haven't came up a lot then I'm going to consider doing b12 shots for a little while and see if that speeds things up. I'm also considering starting on a B complex along with the methyl b12.

I've done LOTS of reading on b12 because it seems to be the only thing helping my heart palps so if you have any more questions feel free to ask, I'll do my best to answer them from the stuff I've read.

Thanks for all the great info.  I will try those sublingual drops.  Like you, I have pain in the extremities, caused by pain elsewhere in my body (in my case, prostate pain, which started many years before TRT).  A couple of followup questions:

1) Is there any diagnostic value to Methylmalonic Acid?  My doctor seemed to think there was, but I have never looked into it.

2)  Does supplementing b12 frequently raise Hematocrit?  Trt has brought me up to 49, so I am trying to keep an eye on that.  I have read that vitamin c, folate and b12 can influence this.

If my memory serves me right checking MMA and homocysteine will help with showing a b12 deficiency. I think the worse the b12 deficiency the higher those two will be. I was going to check mine but I never did. I'm not sure about your second question. I don't recall reading anything about that but I can't say one way or the other.

I just read on a thyroid Facebook page last night that they claim lithium orotate helps get b12 into the cells. I think I read somewhere that thyroid patients a lot of times have low b12. I'm gonna research this a little bit and see what I come up with. If it will help speed up getting my b12 levels up and into the cells I might give it a try.

Boxcar

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Re: Just an FYI on B12 testing
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2017, 09:43:23 pm »
Don't take B12 the morning of a blood draw. Lol I completely forgot and out of habit took a sublingual 1mg b12 an hour before the draw. My B12 came back at 1185 (211-946). I thought it odd that my b12 would come up from 525 to 1185 in a month. I quit b12 last friday just to see what would happen. By Sunday the heart palps were on their way back. By yesterday afternoon they were almost in full swing again. So I started back on b12 this morning and by this afternoon they have calmed down again. I'll get it tested again in a few weeks and hopefully I'll remember to not take b12 at least 24 hours before. I might even go 2 or 3 days without taking it before I get labs done.


What's the B12 to heart palpitation connection?  I've never researched that.


I haven't really found a definitive answer on that but low b12 seems to have alot of nasty side effects, neurological being one of them. I now wonder if this is why my feet started burning about the time the heart palps started. My burning feet is from my back because I can lay on my left side and they quit burning but it could be from low b12 because it affects the myelin sheath on nerves. I've had back trouble for 20+ years but I've never had burning feet until all of this started. Who knows, b12 might just be my main issue, from what I understand it plays a big role in methylation and metabolism and when all of this started its like my metabolism just shut down.

53chevy, did b12 supplementation help relieve your pain?  What blood levels did you need before you saw improvement?  I have neuropathic pain (including the burning in the hands and feet thing) and so my doctor routinely checks it.  It looks decent, but I think you said that high-normal levels are what helped you.

My recent labs (Quest Diagnostics):

Vitamin B12  379 (210-1000 pg/ml)
Methylmalonic Acid  200 (87-318 nmol/l)

According to what I've read you need to bring your levels way up. Tingling in hands and feet is one of the symptoms of low b12 because like I said b12 helps form the myelin (it's like insulation on electrical wiring) around nerves. There are a lot of claims that the ranges are set way too low for b12 and some countries have actually raised the bottom of the level to around 500-600 instead of it being 200 like in the US. I've read lots of anecdotal instances of middling levels causing all kinds of issues but once levels were brought up to the upper range most if not all symptoms disappeared. If you've been having nerve pain for a long time it's possibly that there could be permanent damage. I found one site a couple weeks ago of a doctor going thru numerous patients' ordeals with this and he gave the starting levels, a lot of them being "in range", and told their symptoms and then they were put on b12 shots and most if not all symptoms disappeared or got much better. Some of these people lost the ability to walk and talk, some had major tingling and neuropathy, it seems to be able to cause all kinds of issues. I think it also takes awhile to get the levels back up. From what I've read your body can only absorb about 200 micro grams per feeding. Vegans seem to be plagued with this because there is no good plant source of b12, also people with gut issues have problems absorbing it. Intrinsic factor is what binds to it and allows it to be moved into the body and some people have issues producing IF due to various issues. You can bypass this issue by using sublingual tablets, which is what I'm using. You want to use METHYLcobalimin, it is the most easily absorbed.

My levels 15 months ago were 455. 4 months later is when my feet started burning and the raging heart palps started. The heart palps started after I was put back on T and I really think this is going to be my major issue that caused Trt to quit working. My theory is trt jacked my metabolism up so high and so fast (I lost 30 lbs in about 2 months) that it basically drained me of nutrients, possibly b12. Fingers crossed anyway. I started on cyanocobalimin 2 months ago and took that for a month and did labs and my levels had come up to 525. They most likely had dropped even further than the original 455 due to the heart palps startiing 4 months after I saw that 455 level but I don't know for sure. I still had heart palps at 525 but after a month I switched to methyl b12 and within a couple weeks the heart palps started easing up. I don't remember exactly when my feet quit burning so bad but it was well before I started taking b12, but I was aware that it was coming from my back so I did things to help that out. Last Saturday I picked up a drill press and carried it to my truck, it was pretty heavy, and I paid for it the next day or two. My feet were burning like the pits of hell, but like I said I never had this issue with my feet until all this other started happening so I'm betting on it being because of b12.

I started out taking the methyl b12 two at a time 3 times a day. Now I'm taking one 3 times a day. The brand I use is source naturals and they are 1mg each. You just put them under your tongue and let them dissolve. I know they work because of my over ranges levels from the last labs. I'm gonna get my levels checked again in a month or so and if they haven't came up a lot then I'm going to consider doing b12 shots for a little while and see if that speeds things up. I'm also considering starting on a B complex along with the methyl b12.

I've done LOTS of reading on b12 because it seems to be the only thing helping my heart palps so if you have any more questions feel free to ask, I'll do my best to answer them from the stuff I've read.

Thanks for all the great info.  I will try those sublingual drops.  Like you, I have pain in the extremities, caused by pain elsewhere in my body (in my case, prostate pain, which started many years before TRT).  A couple of followup questions:

1) Is there any diagnostic value to Methylmalonic Acid?  My doctor seemed to think there was, but I have never looked into it.

2)  Does supplementing b12 frequently raise Hematocrit?  Trt has brought me up to 49, so I am trying to keep an eye on that.  I have read that vitamin c, folate and b12 can influence this.

If my memory serves me right checking MMA and homocysteine will help with showing a b12 deficiency. I think the worse the b12 deficiency the higher those two will be. I was going to check mine but I never did. I'm not sure about your second question. I don't recall reading anything about that but I can't say one way or the other.

I just read on a thyroid Facebook page last night that they claim lithium orotate helps get b12 into the cells. I think I read somewhere that thyroid patients a lot of times have low b12. I'm gonna research this a little bit and see what I come up with. If it will help speed up getting my b12 levels up and into the cells I might give it a try.

There was a lengthy thread on lithium orotate.  A number of people had good reports there.  The b12 connection came up as well.  At pharmacological doses of lithium (which you definitely should not do, without the supervision of a doctor), b12 levels go down by a certain percentage (I think it was around 20-30%).  But if the theory is correct, this could be a good thing, since it means b12 is getting into the cells.  I personally don't know what to make of it.  But I guess it couldn't hurt to try small amounts of lithium (I wanted to get a hair test done, before diving in with that).
Age: 36
178 lbs 5'8''

Current Treatment: 50 mg testosterone cypionate IM, twice a week
Low T Symptoms: Chronic pelvic pain, and other neuropathic pain.  Mild anxiety, low energy and low motivation
Meds: Amitriptyline (for pain, not depression), Clonidine (for sleep, not blood pressure)

53chevy

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Re: Just an FYI on B12 testing
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2017, 12:37:47 am »
I did a little reading on lithium orotate today. It's definitely different from the lithium carbonate they use for mood disorders and that dose is massive compared to what you would use for LO. Most people are using 2.5 - 5 mg of LO and report a better sense of well being and mood. I haven't found any concrete evidence that it helps get b12 into the cells but I suppose if your b12 levels drop then that could be an indication that it's getting pushed into the cells. I might get some this weekend and give it a trial and report back in a few weeks.

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Re: Just an FYI on B12 testing
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2017, 12:37:47 am »