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Author Topic: High DHT questions  (Read 5678 times)

vvs1

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High DHT questions
« on: March 18, 2017, 12:12:49 am »
If one has high DHT, would it ever cause low T type symptoms?

I took some supplements one night, big dose of CoQ-10 that had rice bran as the filler. I had a much lower refractory period the next day. Days later I read that rice bran (and brown rice) are some of the best at inhibiting DHT.

Is there a possibility that my DHT is too high?

I'd like to mention that the years when it was a struggle to get an erection, I started growing terminal hair on my chest, thighs, and sideburns. I've always had poor facial hair before problems.

My arm hair is about that of a female. What's weird is that I have a couple dark hairs that grow on the same location on each inside forearm. They keep growing fast and long, but repeatedly fall out.

I don't know, it's like my body stopped puberty, even though T is good.

PakMan

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Re: High DHT questions
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2017, 04:24:27 am »
It could certainly cause low E (estradiol) symptoms because DHT antagonizes the estrogen receptor. Also I asked here and I'm keen to know if it reduces progesterone but looks like there is no info on that as I didn't get any reply for that.
 I asked because when I injected Testosterone propionate I experienced a massive increase of DHT accompanied by high libido, erections but followed by terrible depressive mood for several days. Even lowering the dose resulted in the same symptoms. I checked estradiol and progesterone and the later was below detectable limit (< 0.2)
Age: 46, HT: 5' 7'', WT: 75 kg

Jan 16 to Oct 16 - Test Enanthate (35mg 2x/week)
Oct 16 to Feb 17 - HCG (500iu 2x/Week)
Feb 17 - Test Propionate (25mg only 2 injections 4 days apart)
Aug 2017 onwards (Astaxanthin + other oils, supplements)
Dec 2017 Low dose TRT (25 mg twice a week)
Nothing from Jan 1, 2019

21/08/2017 8:10 PM
Total T = 271 ng/dl  (Range 160 - 726)
LH = 5.15 mIU/ml  (Range 0.8 - 7.6)

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Re: High DHT questions
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2017, 04:24:27 am »


PeakT

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Re: High DHT questions
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2017, 05:56:55 am »
If one has high DHT, would it ever cause low T type symptoms?

I took some supplements one night, big dose of CoQ-10 that had rice bran as the filler. I had a much lower refractory period the next day. Days later I read that rice bran (and brown rice) are some of the best at inhibiting DHT.

Is there a possibility that my DHT is too high?

I'd like to mention that the years when it was a struggle to get an erection, I started growing terminal hair on my chest, thighs, and sideburns. I've always had poor facial hair before problems.

My arm hair is about that of a female. What's weird is that I have a couple dark hairs that grow on the same location on each inside forearm. They keep growing fast and long, but repeatedly fall out.

I don't know, it's like my body stopped puberty, even though T is good.

Brown rice boosts nitric oxide and this is tied to refractory period in some men.  I cover this in my book:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/mystory
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

HRT Guru

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Re: High DHT questions
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2017, 09:22:10 am »
High DHT has common symptoms like acne/hairloss/prostate, but you'd really have to be supra-physiological to start having problems in any of those areas. DHT is very VERY good for you, should NOT be inhibited, UNLESS these other problems present themselves. DHT should not be demonized (not that you did). In fact, some of the more satisfying HRT reports have been when they treat DHT over Testosterone. Also one reason that daily gels/creams (have their absorption problems) but guys can do well on them is the propensity for DHT conversion.
Some of us specifically use creams on the Scrotum for DHT. Also very easy to pull in your recurring labs to know for sure.
Could be an anomaly this rice bran whatever, worth experimenting with again if you want to see, we're all very different but I wouldn't imagine driving DHT down would enable better sexual function.

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Re: High DHT questions
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2017, 09:22:10 am »


53chevy

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Re: High DHT questions
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2017, 05:04:45 pm »
I've got some T cream on the way to see if it has any effect on me at all. I will be applying it to the scrotum. I do believe (and this is just from various things I've read) that dht gets a bad rap. From what I've read it's what makes you a man and I believe crisler has said the same thing. T basically works on the muscles because there's not a lot of dht activity in the muscle and dht affects everything else. This is a generalization but you get the idea.

electrify

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Re: High DHT questions
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2017, 05:58:06 pm »
Too high Testosterone levels often cause me problems but DHT on the other hand for me is great. Im trying to dial things in right now somehow with lowering TRT dose to only a modest 600-700 level and getting pure DHT but T cream goes into both and im so sensitive to high T levels in a bad way.
Age:24

ghce

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Re: High DHT questions
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2017, 07:58:33 pm »
As far I can tell the more DHT the better. If you were starting to get acne or loose hair maybe there would be cause for concern.
My new protocol has seen me using cream some of which I had been applying to the scrotum. The effect has been extreme nightly and morning wood more than I have ever experienced at any time in my life. Yes maybe you can have too much, my levels are well and truly supraphysiological but there has been no downside for me.
Age:60, Height 6' 3" weight 100KG
2014 Androderm Patches
2014-2016 Oral Andriol 160mg Daily
June 2016 Clomid/Serophene 12.5mg EOD
September 2016 no TRT all natural and supplements for the time being
February 2017 Testosterone cream 100mg daily

Sept 2016
Testosterone   8.2 nmol/l   9-38
Free Testosterone   239 pmol/l   L   250-800
SHBG:  14    nmol/L   9-60
Free Androgen index   586   >400
Oestradiol    112   pmol/L    <190
LH    2.6 IU/L Adult male   2 - 9 IU/L
FSH  1.4 IU/L Adult male L2 - 12 IU/L

22 November
T 6.8  nmol/L ( 9-38 ) L

March 2017
Testosterone:   45.0  nmol/L ( 9-38 ) H ( 1,323 ng/dl )
Free Testosterone:   1512  pmol/L ( 250-800 ) H
SHBG:   17  nmol/L ( 9-60 )
Plasma IGF-1:   227 ug/L ( 55-198 ) H
Plasma cortisol:   434 nmol/L ( 0600-1000 hrs 170-500 nmol/L )
HbA1c:   36 mmol/mol ( 20-40 )
LH:   <0.1 IU/L
FSH:   0.1 IU/L
DHT Plasma Dihydrotestosterone:   7455   pmol/L ( 223 ng/dl ) 
Reference Range Adult males  1000-6000 pmol/L

53chevy

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Re: High DHT questions
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2017, 12:50:32 am »
As far I can tell the more DHT the better. If you were starting to get acne or loose hair maybe there would be cause for concern.
My new protocol has seen me using cream some of which I had been applying to the scrotum. The effect has been extreme nightly and morning wood more than I have ever experienced at any time in my life. Yes maybe you can have too much, my levels are well and truly supraphysiological but there has been no downside for me.

Do you attribute this solely to the cream? What has it done for your libido?

Joe Sixpack

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Re: High DHT questions
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2017, 02:27:15 am »
As far I can tell the more DHT the better. If you were starting to get acne or loose hair maybe there would be cause for concern.
My new protocol has seen me using cream some of which I had been applying to the scrotum. The effect has been extreme nightly and morning wood more than I have ever experienced at any time in my life. Yes maybe you can have too much, my levels are well and truly supraphysiological but there has been no downside for me.
Doesn't too high of a DHT level cause enlarged prostate problems?
Age: 55, Ht: 5'08", Wt: 155 lbs
Protocol: 25 mg T Cyp + 25 IU HCG M,W,F + 2 clicks T Cream + 15mg DHEA + 15mg Pregnenalone daily.
12/2018 test results: TT: 1054 ng/dL (264-916), FT: 17.2 pg/mL (7.2-24), E2: 21.6 pg/mL sensitive (8.0-35.0)

ghce

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Re: High DHT questions
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2017, 02:34:51 am »
Yes I think pretty much the cream though I have been taking D3, B complex, Zinc, Magnesium Calcium combo and Vit C and whilst the supplement helped when I was off TRT  nocturnal and morning wood wouldnt have been 5% of what they are now.
The last few days I stopped the scrotal application and did not find much drop off in the effects.

I cant say that libido is over the top however indeed it is still a lot less than pre low T days, I may need to explore a few other hormones such as DHEA or other related dopamine supplementing ideas However I can see that cream is going to be a long term protocol as this is far better than any thing else before TRT wise that I had tried.

Researching high DHT it does seem there maybe a correlation to increased  prostate problems such as enlargement or cancer but also that is in the presence of high E2, I am quite happy to take the risk, a recent documentary I saw on prostate cancer and its risks was quite insistent that the prostate cancer was not the demon that the medical profession cracks it up to be.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2017, 02:38:52 am by ghce »
Age:60, Height 6' 3" weight 100KG
2014 Androderm Patches
2014-2016 Oral Andriol 160mg Daily
June 2016 Clomid/Serophene 12.5mg EOD
September 2016 no TRT all natural and supplements for the time being
February 2017 Testosterone cream 100mg daily

Sept 2016
Testosterone   8.2 nmol/l   9-38
Free Testosterone   239 pmol/l   L   250-800
SHBG:  14    nmol/L   9-60
Free Androgen index   586   >400
Oestradiol    112   pmol/L    <190
LH    2.6 IU/L Adult male   2 - 9 IU/L
FSH  1.4 IU/L Adult male L2 - 12 IU/L

22 November
T 6.8  nmol/L ( 9-38 ) L

March 2017
Testosterone:   45.0  nmol/L ( 9-38 ) H ( 1,323 ng/dl )
Free Testosterone:   1512  pmol/L ( 250-800 ) H
SHBG:   17  nmol/L ( 9-60 )
Plasma IGF-1:   227 ug/L ( 55-198 ) H
Plasma cortisol:   434 nmol/L ( 0600-1000 hrs 170-500 nmol/L )
HbA1c:   36 mmol/mol ( 20-40 )
LH:   <0.1 IU/L
FSH:   0.1 IU/L
DHT Plasma Dihydrotestosterone:   7455   pmol/L ( 223 ng/dl ) 
Reference Range Adult males  1000-6000 pmol/L

PeakT

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Re: High DHT questions
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2017, 11:45:49 am »
As far I can tell the more DHT the better. If you were starting to get acne or loose hair maybe there would be cause for concern.
My new protocol has seen me using cream some of which I had been applying to the scrotum. The effect has been extreme nightly and morning wood more than I have ever experienced at any time in my life. Yes maybe you can have too much, my levels are well and truly supraphysiological but there has been no downside for me.
Doesn't too high of a DHT level cause enlarged prostate problems?

It can, and it can also accelerate hair loss.  I know that Defy has definite upper limits on what they generally like to see.
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

HRT Guru

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Re: High DHT questions
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2017, 12:27:34 pm »
While Ive been using the cream I always pull PSA's, too, never been >.7, which is steady and consistent for me.

PeakT

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Re: High DHT questions
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2017, 12:18:14 am »
While Ive been using the cream I always pull PSA's, too, never been >.7, which is steady and consistent for me.

At reasonable total testosterone levels, TRT will slightly increase prostate size - but not too much.  This is rarely a problem for guys, but it can be a side effect of TRT if, I would guess, they are "sensitive to DHT", are "high converters of DHT" or "had a enlargened prostate prior to TRT".  On a practical level, I have rarely seen that to be an issue on here, even tho you would think it might be a fairly common side.
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

vvs1

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Re: High DHT questions
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2017, 12:50:07 am »
So unlike, say higher than upper range estrogen, high DHT can not cause libido/ed issues?

Even when I had almost no facial hair, my libido was always in overdrive. When libido went to nothing, I was growing chest hair and all. I guess my DHT is normal and I should look for causes elsewhere?

Does the arm hair indicate any condition? Very light arm hair, but both arms have 1 dark, androgenic hair in the same spot. For years it grows an inch and falls off about every month. 

ghce

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Re: High DHT questions
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2017, 03:44:51 am »
Low libido is not traditionally associated with high DHT in fact the opposite, I would go so far as to say if it did in you then you would be the absolute exception.
Age:60, Height 6' 3" weight 100KG
2014 Androderm Patches
2014-2016 Oral Andriol 160mg Daily
June 2016 Clomid/Serophene 12.5mg EOD
September 2016 no TRT all natural and supplements for the time being
February 2017 Testosterone cream 100mg daily

Sept 2016
Testosterone   8.2 nmol/l   9-38
Free Testosterone   239 pmol/l   L   250-800
SHBG:  14    nmol/L   9-60
Free Androgen index   586   >400
Oestradiol    112   pmol/L    <190
LH    2.6 IU/L Adult male   2 - 9 IU/L
FSH  1.4 IU/L Adult male L2 - 12 IU/L

22 November
T 6.8  nmol/L ( 9-38 ) L

March 2017
Testosterone:   45.0  nmol/L ( 9-38 ) H ( 1,323 ng/dl )
Free Testosterone:   1512  pmol/L ( 250-800 ) H
SHBG:   17  nmol/L ( 9-60 )
Plasma IGF-1:   227 ug/L ( 55-198 ) H
Plasma cortisol:   434 nmol/L ( 0600-1000 hrs 170-500 nmol/L )
HbA1c:   36 mmol/mol ( 20-40 )
LH:   <0.1 IU/L
FSH:   0.1 IU/L
DHT Plasma Dihydrotestosterone:   7455   pmol/L ( 223 ng/dl ) 
Reference Range Adult males  1000-6000 pmol/L

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Re: High DHT questions
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2017, 03:44:51 am »