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Author Topic: Creatine and Nitrates and Nitrosamines  (Read 4897 times)

Blade78

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Creatine and Nitrates and Nitrosamines
« on: April 10, 2013, 08:31:30 am »
The key thing about eating nitrates is that it is an alternate pathway for nitric oxide to be created if you have a damaged endothelium.  I don't know how much kick you'll get from it since you're a young pup,
thanks?,  I'm 35.5yrs old, I dont feel young....I get upset when people walk on my lawn, make noise(which is why I live/work the night shift), I dont understand todays music, etc.) :o

Btw, the spinach you are eating has a lot of them and I think you wrote you're doing two of those per day, so you're in good shape.

Raw spinach does bind to Calcium so you may want to just have that once/day.
Comment:  Some researchers were worried that consuming nitrates of any form would lead to cancer-causing nitrosamines.  However, there is zero evidence that this occurs when eating vegetables.  Dr. Bryan discusses this at length in his book.
I thought nitrosamines were made with creatine,  and combined with what I've learned from you and my biochemistry teacher, there is no creatine in plants, right?

-Below you say there is creatine lacking in plants:
It excels in certain nutrients where plants do not (zinc, creatine, choline, etc.).    This is why the CR (Caloric Restriction) folks eat some meat so that they can get their RDA's in all categories.

--Here my biochemistry teacher tells me HCAs need creatine to be made:
There are studies over the past 25 years that show heterocyclic amines can be formed when muscle meat is cooked.  The amount of these compounds are dependent on cooking time and method.  It also appears that their formation requires creatine, which is a molecule found in muscle.  I have not found anything that indicates creatine is found in egg whites.  So, my expectation is that even though egg whites have a lot of protein, it is unlikely that they are generating amounts of heterocylic amines that are found in red meats cooked at high temperatures.  Also, I expect your cooking method is unlikely to generate the HCAs to any great extent because the cooking time is relatively short.

More good news about eating so many cruciferous vegatables: that the veggies themselves help the body excretae  HCAs, so if you do eat meat/get HCAs in your diet, also eat cruciferous vegatables to help the HCAs pass through.
Heterocyclic amines will be biotransformed in the body to compounds that are more easily excreted.  From what I have looked at, most of these molecules are biotransformed by a cytochrome P450 enzyme (a phase I reaction), followed by phase II reactions that attach glucuronic acid (a sugar), sulfate or glutathione to the molecule.  Both phase I and phase II reactions make the molecule more water soluble, so that it can be excreted from the body more easily.  So, part of whether these molecules will be carcinogenic will depend on the efficiency of these enzymes.  There was a study done several years ago that looked at whether compounds in broccoli or brussel sprouts affected the biotransformation of one of these heterocyclic amines, PhIP.  These researches found that the biotransformation of PhIP to a non-toxic, excretable form was enhanced by compounds in the cruciferous vegatables.
“Don’t you feel good when you go to the gym?’ Not at all. There’s too many people in-shape there. When I go to McDonald’s I feel great. At McDonald’s I’m Matthew McConaughey.” --Jim Gaffigan - Mr. Universe

PeakT

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Re: Creatine and Nitrates and Nitrosamines
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2013, 06:32:11 am »
Nitrosamines, as far I know, come primarily from eating an amine-based food (citrus, raisins, cheese, fish, tomato, etc.) and a nitrate laden food (lettuce, spinach, beets, etc.).  Now you can get some from processed meats (which also have nitrites) - they add it as a preservative - and from smoking.  (Tap water will also often have lots of nitrates.)

Dr. Bryan argues that nitrosamine in whole foods cannot be an issue.  His reasoning is that there is zero evidence that eating nitrates causes cancer - in fact, quite the opposite.  And the reason may also be that flavonols and Vitamin C inhibit nitrosamines. 

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF02855742
"Nitrite scavenging effect by flavonoids and its structure-effect relationship"

So there are likely many compounds in good, whole foods that protect us from the nitrosamines.

I think the confusion regarding creatine is the fact that there is such a thing as creatine nitrate and the nitrate is broken off, from what i understand, and thus available potentially for combining with an amine.  However, most creatine is creatine monohydrate I believe, but the bottom line is that it depends which form you purchased.
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Re: Creatine and Nitrates and Nitrosamines
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2013, 06:32:11 am »


Blade78

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Re: Creatine and Nitrates and Nitrosamines
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2013, 09:38:39 am »
Nitrosamines, as far I know, come primarily from eating an amine-based food (citrus, raisins, cheese, fish, tomato, etc.) and a nitrate laden food (lettuce, spinach, beets, etc.).  Now you can get some from processed meats (which also have nitrites) - they add it as a preservative - and from smoking.  (Tap water will also often have lots of nitrates.)

Dr. Bryan argues that nitrosamine in whole foods cannot be an issue.  His reasoning is that there is zero evidence that eating nitrates causes cancer - in fact, quite the opposite.  And the reason may also be that flavonols and Vitamin C inhibit nitrosamines. 
even better reason to eat oranges?  citrus, have vit C, and have nitrates?
one navel orange packs ~80milligrams of vitamin C

I wouldnt eat organes to get the 1-3g of vit C a day though
Papaya =140mg
Red Bell Peppers=190mg
Broccoli/150g=130mg
Kale(2 cups)=160mg
Strawberries(147mg)=90mg

Why Take Vitamin C?

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Why_Take_Vitamin_C
“Don’t you feel good when you go to the gym?’ Not at all. There’s too many people in-shape there. When I go to McDonald’s I feel great. At McDonald’s I’m Matthew McConaughey.” --Jim Gaffigan - Mr. Universe

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Re: Creatine and Nitrates and Nitrosamines
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2013, 09:38:39 am »