Testosterone and Behavior

[Blade78]

Dare you doubt his superpowers?

I question a lot of stuff.....which I attribute to high testosterone

I have a friend who labels behavior of men as, "he has...low testosterone/high testosterone."
 
Which I'm sure actually makes a difference.  I know I'm different than I was in 2010-2012 because then I was fat and likely had low to low/normal testosterone.
Why was my testosterone low/low-normal? 
I wasnt happy about my life, I was trying to get over a crappy GF, I felt lost in life,  My medical school lied to me and thus I had more work to do in life, or as I see it, more punishment by the school.
oh, I was fat, ie 30++% bodyfat and I was very much an addict to my daily  getting my fix from highly processed food.

so what changed??

I stopped eating  crap food so I could lose weight to win a contest(winning!)
I lost weight,(bodyfat ~18%),
stopped eating processed foods and addditives
started getting results in the gym
then I stopped using my SSRI(bupropion) I didnt think I needed it
decide to take better control of my life(eating is the biggest control you have in life)

so I wonder what science there is, if any, behind how men act/say and their testosterone levels?
-do guys who just approach women have high testosterone?
- do men who just learn easily have high test.?
etc

[PeakT]

so I wonder what science there is, if any, behind how men act/say and their testosterone levels?
-do guys who just approach women have high testosterone?
- do men who just learn easily have high test.?
etc

Well, you've seen the rocket trip that some of the guys have described on here.  It can really effect the brain, especially in men that go from 200 to 800.

[Blade78]

Well, you've seen the rocket trip that some of the guys have described on here.  It can really effect the brain, especially in men that go from 200 to 800.

I know about their health, etc
I want to know about their behavior, I only have mine to examine/judge

[PeakT]

If you look through the studies on this subject, it's hard to come up with hard and fast rules.  But my summary of what I think is the following:

1.  Low and lowish testosterone:  male is irritable; mental fog; thinking and learning is impaired; anxiety is increased; mood is decreased so depression is more likely.  And if erectile dysfunction:  panic sets in as his only reasonable source of dopamine is squashed.

2.  Medium and medium high testosterone:  man is much relaxed; able to think clearly; life is good.

3.  Overly high testosterone:  man is "wired"; tends to get aggressive; temper can flare; overly alert.  And when I say "overly high", I'm usually referring to usually what comes out of HRT type of situations.  It's pretty rare for a guy in this 30's and beyond to have this level of testosterone naturally. 

By the way, all of the above is assuming that estradiol is managed.  If estradiol is out of control, it can negate everything above.

Now, as far as health, it's hard to beat the insulin-lowering and weight-controlling properties of testosterone if you ask me.  But they really need to do more mortality work to get a better feel for this.

[Sam]

There was a study I saw today that 45% of Billionaires were in the top 1% of cognitive ability.   It would be interesting to see their Testosterone levels.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/billionaires-just-smarter-rest-us-125714709.html

[PeakT]

There was a study I saw today that 45% of Billionaires were in the top 1% of cognitive ability.   It would be interesting to see their Testosterone levels.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/billionaires-just-smarter-rest-us-125714709.html

Well, there is probably something to this, but I'm not sure I buy into the idea that admission into elite schools is a great predictor of top intelligence levels.  Maybe I'm wrong there...

[399]

there is a book out now called "the hour between dog and wolf: risk taking, gut feelings, and the biology of boom and bust" written by a former wall street trader who went back to get a neuroscience phd because he wanted to study the idea that the typical "greed and fear" responses of traders had physical as much as mental causes.  not to summarize the book, but what he found was that traders' testosterone rises when they are winning and their cortisol rises when they are losing.  both by a lot.  its an interesting read that relates to a lot of what we talk about on this board.  i am in the middle of it but not ready to review.

but i bring this up because based on his research, i would wager that billionaires, at least self-made ones, have much higher than average testosterone levels due to the feedback mechanisms of winning described in this book

[JackAndy]

There was a study I saw today that 45% of Billionaires were in the top 1% of cognitive ability.   It would be interesting to see their Testosterone levels.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/billionaires-just-smarter-rest-us-125714709.html

but i bring this up because based on his research, i would wager that billionaires, at least self-made ones, have much higher than average testosterone levels due to the feedback mechanisms of winning described in this book

I don't mean to step on anyone's toes but this is just another way that the rich are trying to justify the reasons why they are so rich. The fact that someone is rich has very little to do with their own merits and a lot more to do with political and social arrangements. Don't be fooled by stuff like this. This kind of pseudoscience was the foundation for German nationalism, Jim Crow laws, for the creation of a racial hierarchy which justified colonization and eugenics. When you try and imply causation between a group of people's success and natural, inborn characteristics which are unchangeable, you're playing with fire. The truth is that these tests are always biased. There is no real reason for kings to be kings, for rich to be rich or for second-class citizens to be second-class. We are all created different, but equal.

[Blade78]

The fact that someone is rich has very little to do with their own merits and a lot more to do with political and social arrangements. Don't be fooled by stuff like this. This kind of pseudoscience was the foundation for German nationalism, Jim Crow laws, for the creation of a racial hierarchy which justified colonization and eugenics. When you try and imply causation between a group of people's success and natural, inborn characteristics which are unchangeable, you're playing with fire. The truth is that these tests are always biased. There is no real reason for kings to be kings, for rich to be rich or for second-class citizens to be second-class. We are all created different, but equal.

We arent all talking about the same things...
kings have nothing to do with testosterone levels?  hmmm  you've seen BRAVEHEART? 
how true is this line from that movie?
Isabella: The king will be dead in a month and his son is a weakling. Who
do you think will rule this kingdom? Now open this door.
so to become king when your dad is king might have little to do with testosterone levels, but to become king or to hold that office, might require at least average testosterone level.

Does testosterone   mean you get to be rich? Not always.  and depends on what you mean, "rich" or "wealthy"
no one in this thread is talking about wealthy, you can't get rid of wealth.
as for rich or getting ladies/gaining muscle, and attitude in life, that's what we all want to discuss.

That's why I made this thread; to note the empirical observations that might lead e to think someone I see had high/low testosterone.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empirical_evidence

I think a guy has low testosterone when I see a guy:
-walk with his head down
-have a large gut
-dress like he just woke up
-look lost or clueless

I think a guy has high testosterone when I see a guy
-a neatly dressed
-lean, more skinny than fat, although wearing clothes can give a hard read
-walking fast, toward something
-carrying something, briefcase, folder, clipboard


Things I dont know about
-facial hair: does some facial hair(less than 2 days growth) show women he has testosterone or is a clean look more attractive?
-hats, I understand why people wear hats(forwards) why do people wear hats backwards?(see pic)

[PeakT]

Things I dont know about
-facial hair: does some facial hair(less than 2 days growth) show women he has testosterone or is a clean look more attractive?
-hats, I understand why people wear hats(forwards) why do people wear hats backwards?(see pic)

I'm not sure you're going to get too far with the hat thing.  However, penis length is related to finger height ratios though, so I guess you never know:

http://www.garmaonhealth.com/mens-health/penis-size

[Ken]

JackAndy,

Nicely stated!  You weren't a sociology major by any chance were you?

399,

I've read the same thing regarding the rise and fall of T while in the gym based on what a guy sees next to him.  The article suggest that when you are performing the same lift as the guy next to you and witnessing him lift significantly more weight it can cause your own T level to drop.  Conversely, when you are outperforming the guy next to you it can rise.  Don't know how accurate this is, but I know I prefer to be the guy lifting heavier! Don't we all?

Cheers

[JackAndy]

You weren't a sociology major by any chance were you?

Nope. I'm just sayin...

[399]

Jack, you completely misunderstood the point I was making.  It's not that a billionaire is born with a higher testosterone level or part of some master race, it's that there are things that happen that cause testosterone levels to rise and fall.  There is proof that if you win in a sporting or business setting, your t goes up.  (this relationship may not work the same if you have secondary hypogonadism, but for the normal population it is true)  if said billionaire were to then lose his money his test would then crash and his cortisol would go up hugely.  The point of the research of the book I mentioned was about how these hormones vary situationally among the same people, not that someone is born with high t and should therefore be a billionaire.

If you walk up to a girl and pick her up and get laid i'll bet your t level the next few hours would be a lot higher than if she rejected you and made you feel like crap.  It's the same principle

[Blade78]

I'm not sure you're going to get too far with the hat thing.  However, penis length is related to finger height ratios though, so I guess you never know:

http://www.garmaonhealth.com/mens-health/penis-size

I missed how this is on topic with this thread?  am I supposed to find this info in some way useful?
because penis size isnt behavior  related to high/low testosterone that we can control
seeing some guy doing something stupid, ie wear a hat backwards and then shade his face with his hand) is behavior which could be related to him having high/low testosterone

[Sam]

I'm not sure you're going to get too far with the hat thing.  However, penis length is related to finger height ratios though, so I guess you never know:

http://www.garmaonhealth.com/mens-health/penis-size

I missed how this is on topic with this thread?  am I supposed to find this info in some way useful?
because penis size isnt behavior  related to high/low testosterone that we can control
seeing some guy doing something stupid, ie wear a hat backwards and then shade his face with his hand) is behavior which could be related to him having high/low testosterone

I think the bigger issue is that guys chin.  Clearly chin size is a predictor of testosterone levels.

http://www.anthropogeny.com/Evolution%20of%20the%20Chin.htm

So if this is true, "So, large brains produce small teeth. Large brains, small teeth, and high testosterone produce a chin."   I'm guessing this guy has low t.    So maybe there is something to a lack of situational awareness and t levels.

Furthermore situational awareness is a characteristic often attributed to manly occupations such as police, firefighters, military as well as conventional leadership vs management. 

Note I modified this base don re-reading the link