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Author Topic: Need Help With High Libido Man on TRT and Uninterested Wife  (Read 24436 times)

PeakT

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Guys,

I had someone PM me the following.  He is looking for some genuine tips, advice, ideas, etc. 

"Older married man with near sexless wife

TRT gives me a very high libido, much like when I was a young man. I want sex with regularity. My happy and content, upper 50's postmenopausal wife who is also on a form of HRT, which helped for a short while, has near zero libido and rarely shows affection of any sort. I must ask her for sex, something that does not sit well with me. Even worse, she will use any excuse to say no, and I mean any excuse. I'm tired of asking, and being turned down. And, I'm horny as hell, with no outlet.

At the moment, we have sex about every one or two months. My doc gave me 20 Viagra pills and I've only used three, the rest just sit there, unused. At this rate, the remainder will last years. I'd like to say that I don't need them, but sometimes they really do help. Mostly because when I'm more than a little pissed off at her I won't maintain a strong erection, yet I want sex. No real erection problems otherwise.

She absolutely does not respond to daily gentle affection or the more forward method of ass grabbing, nor kissing, flowers, new cars, dinner dates, sexy movies, my fit body or other tried and true methods. The "alpha male" thing means nothing to her.

My questions are as follows.

1) I need suggestions on how to ask for sex. Seems so simple, but it's not. I hate that I have to ask. "Viagra tonight" is this month's current question. Clever questions don't work either.

2) Has anyone here had success with their older wife?

3) Acceptance has been part of my life for a decade now, how do horny older guys deal with it? Sure, some go out and get a younger wife. I don't want to be that guy.

Which leads me to the crux of the issue. TRT drives my desire for sex into orbit. I'm sure that TRT is part of my problem. Without TRT, I'd just be a fat old man, sitting around. With TRT, I want sex at least every other day. I do feel TRT and the associated libido is pushing me towards doing something I should not. "
« Last Edit: May 23, 2017, 12:05:30 pm by PeakT »
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Regulus

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Re: Need Help With High Libido Man on TRT and Uninterested Wife
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2017, 02:58:40 pm »
Some thoughts.

When you get married you signed up to have sex with one person.  One.   Not two or three or four or whatever.  You didn't sign up to have sex with anyone other than the woman you married.

But ... one is also not zero.   You didn't sign up to have sex with anyone less than the woman you married.

There's a lot of discussion of libido mismatches online, and I totally agree with the point that no one has a right to demand that anyone else sleep with them.   Absolutely true.   No is no, and anyone, married or not, has the right to say no to anyone anytime.   But I don't think it ends there.   It is also wrong -- probably not equally wrong, but still most definitely wrong -- to think that you have the right to deny someone else their sexual needs.

This is sometimes taken aggressively, the old "if you don't sleep with me I'll find someone else who will" threat.  I don't think it should or needs to be that way.

Simply put:    You have these normal and reasonable needs.   You are married.   Your wife has the right to expect you will not stray and break your wedding vows.   But I think that someone who refuses to acknowledge and reasonably meet their spouses needs is also breaking wedding vows.   I don't know what specific vows you used, but I have a hard time seeing how that lives up to the whole "love, honor and cherish" thing.

So, my own opinion is this.   You have needs that your wife is supposed to be meeting as part of being married to you.   She has a right to refuse to have a sex life, but she does not have the right to make you not have a sex life.  So, if she really cares about your marriage, she needs to be willing to fix this with you.   There are options.

For one, there's the whole open relationship thing.   Not necessarily completely open, do whatever you want with whoever, but an acceptance that if she's not going to met your needs you still have those needs to be met.    It is not unusual couples to be in a similar situation with the roles reversed ... the wife wants sex but the husband is not interested.   Finding a friend with benefits, with both spouses accepting it, doesn't exactly fit the traditional ideal of marriage, but marriage is more than just monogamy.   A relationship of that sort could be a benefit to both marriages.

For another, there's, shall we say, stuff that you can do that does not require libido, it just requires caring about the other person and recognizing that they have one.   I won't be explicit but I think you know what I'm talking about.   If your wife no longer is interested in sex for her own desires, there's plenty of stuff she can still do.  I have some personal experience with this myself;  right before I went on TRT I lost my entire libido and had almost total ED.   I didn't know what was going on with me, and I assumed it was permanent.   And I devoted myself to the fine art of getting a woman off without using ... well, you get my drift.   When one partner loses libido, I don't think they retain the right to expect fidelity unless they are willing to do everything they reasonably can to meet the other's needs.   

Another possibility is that maybe her libido is fixable after all, and you're just not approaching her in the right way to get her to do something about it.   Maybe her HRT needs refinement and she just needs the motivation to seek that refinement.   Or maybe the problem isn't hormones after all.   All those "tried and true methods" ... maybe what she needs to motivate her is something you've never thought of, or something that you think you are doing that's getting lost in translation.   I used to bring my wife flowers all the time ... no particular reason, just because i love her ... which I thought made me quite the romantic catch.   Turns out, my wife really doesn't like flowers.   She's weird that way.   But there are other things, mundane things that would never have occurred to me as romantic gestures, that really mean the world to her.   Go figure.   Maybe you just need to get her to open up to you about what it is she needs to make her feel the romance again;   it might be something that never would have occurred to you.    Maybe you can find this by talking directly, maybe some couples counseling is required.

The last option is the hardest, but it probably needs to be on the table, because it may actually be the best option, or maybe just because she needs to know that it's on the table so that she isn't taking anything for granted and blowing off your needs.   And that option of course is divorce.    Till death do us part is the ideal, but you don't get there unless you both are willing to work to get there.   If she simply will not consider any reasonable alternative, if she thinks "just go beat off in the shower" is an acceptable answer that she can get away with because you won't walk, that puts you in a weak position.

The one option I would strongly advise against is cheating.  That story almost never has a happy ending for anybody.   Sounds like you already know that.  If you are going to do something to end the marriage, just end the marriage first and then do it.  It's so much cleaner and easier for everybody.
Late 40's, on TRT since 2011.
Test cyp 50 mg twice per week
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Re: Need Help With High Libido Man on TRT and Uninterested Wife
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2017, 02:58:40 pm »


HRT Guru

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Re: Need Help With High Libido Man on TRT and Uninterested Wife
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2017, 03:11:53 pm »
Twice divorced as I am I have something to say but should I be listened to? Maybe. Maybe not.

She's cheating on you. You need to fully investigate this and not bury your head in the sand or take her "no" as the real answer.
Two, she has certain responsibilities in your marriage, that's a fact. Bend over and take it whenever you want...not at all. But a sexless marriage is a failed marriage. On her part. Encourage her HRT therapy. It doesn't work for a lot of guys at least not a return to levels that you seem to be (not) enjoying, and the same can happen with women in HRT.
But if she's not taking care of herself, not treating her condition and taking it out on you, there's certainly reason to consider the totality of the health of the marriage.

But me 44 and two divorces before I was 30, I run to infidelity as place #1 to look. Old adage goes something like "if she's not giving it to you, she's giving it to someone else"

Osprey

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Re: Need Help With High Libido Man on TRT and Uninterested Wife
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2017, 05:00:56 pm »
It's a tough situation. One of the TRT docs I saw said that he had patients decide to quit TRT because of the high libido with no outlet. Clearly a drastic response to a bad situation.

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Re: Need Help With High Libido Man on TRT and Uninterested Wife
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2017, 05:00:56 pm »


53chevy

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Re: Need Help With High Libido Man on TRT and Uninterested Wife
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2017, 05:26:22 pm »
If she's on hrt then I think I'd get her hormones in check first and pronto. If she doesn't want to put forth the effort to do that then.......

ghce

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Re: Need Help With High Libido Man on TRT and Uninterested Wife
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2017, 05:35:00 pm »
Twice divorced as I am I have something to say but should I be listened to? Maybe. Maybe not.

She's cheating on you. You need to fully investigate this and not bury your head in the sand or take her "no" as the real answer.
Two, she has certain responsibilities in your marriage, that's a fact. Bend over and take it whenever you want...not at all. But a sexless marriage is a failed marriage. On her part. Encourage her HRT therapy. It doesn't work for a lot of guys at least not a return to levels that you seem to be (not) enjoying, and the same can happen with women in HRT.
But if she's not taking care of herself, not treating her condition and taking it out on you, there's certainly reason to consider the totality of the health of the marriage.

But me 44 and two divorces before I was 30, I run to infidelity as place #1 to look. Old adage goes something like "if she's not giving it to you, she's giving it to someone else"

Fully concur on your number 1 point, whether it is the case or not it does need scrutiny.

I left my first marriage after 32 years and in that case it was due to untreated low T and zero libido on my part. I could have easily saved the relationship at any time but due to my own will-full inaction didn't.

You really need to ask yourself is the marriage worth the frustration.
Age:57, Height 6' 3" weight 92.5KG
2014 Androderm Patches
2014-2016 Oral Andriol 160mg Daily
June 2016 Clomid/Serophene 12.5mg EOD
September 2016 no TRT all natural and supplements for the time being
February 2017 Testosterone cream 100mg daily

Sept 2016
Testosterone   8.2 nmol/l   9-38
Free Testosterone   239 pmol/l   L   250-800
SHBG:  14    nmol/L   9-60
Free Androgen index   586   >400
Oestradiol    112   pmol/L    <190
LH    2.6 IU/L Adult male   2 - 9 IU/L
FSH  1.4 IU/L Adult male L2 - 12 IU/L

22 November
T 6.8  nmol/L ( 9-38 ) L

March 2017
Testosterone:   45.0  nmol/L ( 9-38 ) H ( 1,323 ng/dl )
Free Testosterone:   1512  pmol/L ( 250-800 ) H
SHBG:   17  nmol/L ( 9-60 )
Plasma IGF-1:   227 ug/L ( 55-198 ) H
Plasma cortisol:   434 nmol/L ( 0600-1000 hrs 170-500 nmol/L )
HbA1c:   36 mmol/mol ( 20-40 )
LH:   <0.1 IU/L
FSH:   0.1 IU/L
DHT Plasma Dihydrotestosterone:   7455   pmol/L ( 223 ng/dl ) 

Reference Range Adult males  1000-6000 pmol/L

Boxcar

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Re: Need Help With High Libido Man on TRT and Uninterested Wife
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2017, 05:40:25 pm »
Not something I have personal experience with, but I have some idea of what has worked...

Testosterone for Women:  For female HRT to raise libido, it generally must include testosterone (which it usually does not). Especially when the drop in libido was post-menopausal, low testosterone is usually the culprit. Dr Saya went into this on another thread (apparently he has quite a lot of experience treating women). The interesting thing is that testosterone may be a stronger libido trigger in women than in men, because testosterone spikes with ovulation (ie, there is a very good evolutionary reason for this libido spike!).

"Dread Game":  If the above fails, "dread game" is something that seems to work (a lot of talk about this in Married Red Pill circles).  The name makes this sound worse than it is (and it is definitely nicer than actually going through with divorce).. But the idea is to make your wife feel like she is going to lose you. This can be as simple as being charming with other women, in your wife's presence. Basically it includes all the little things you would be doing, if you were looking to move on.  The emotional subtext is that you are awesome, and if your wife does not appreciate that, then other women will. This can trigger a chasing reflex and even spark genuine desire (the later seems counterintuitive to me, but women are wired differently).

I am not saying that dread game is easy, or a sure thing, but you can find examples of it working.  A regular poster on here made it work for him... I will try to find the thread, but he just seemed to figure it out on his own, without even knowing there was a name for it.
Age: 36
178 lbs 5'8''

Current Treatment: 50 mg testosterone cypionate IM, twice a week
Low T Symptoms: Chronic pelvic pain, and other neuropathic pain.  Mild anxiety, low energy and low motivation
Meds: Amitriptyline (for pain, not depression), Clonidine (for sleep, not blood pressure)

53chevy

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Re: Need Help With High Libido Man on TRT and Uninterested Wife
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2017, 06:21:07 pm »
Not something I have personal experience with, but I have some idea of what has worked...

Testosterone for Women:  For female HRT to raise libido, it generally must include testosterone (which it usually does not). Especially when the drop in libido was post-menopausal, low testosterone is usually the culprit. Dr Saya went into this on another thread (apparently he has quite a lot of experience treating women). The interesting thing is that testosterone may be a stronger libido trigger in women than in men, because testosterone spikes with ovulation (ie, there is a very good evolutionary reason for this libido spike!).

"Dread Game":  If the above fails, "dread game" is something that seems to work (a lot of talk about this in Married Red Pill circles).  The name makes this sound worse than it is (and it is definitely nicer than actually going through with divorce).. But the idea is to make your wife feel like she is going to lose you. This can be as simple as being charming with other women, in your wife's presence. Basically it includes all the little things you would be doing, if you were looking to move on.  The emotional subtext is that you are awesome, and if your wife does not appreciate that, then other women will. This can trigger a chasing reflex and even spark genuine desire (the later seems counterintuitive to me, but women are wired differently).

I am not saying that dread game is easy, or a sure thing, but you can find examples of it working.  A regular poster on here made it work for him... I will try to find the thread, but he just seemed to figure it out on his own, without even knowing there was a name for it.

I have an older friend who has been having hormone issues for a few years and she was given a T patch for a couple months. She had no libido before but with the patch she said she couldn't get enough sex. Her doctor quit giving her the patch and is now back to no libido so yes I'd say given just as important for women as it is men.

I'm not married and I didn't know it had a name but I can verify that the dread game works. I've made more than one woman jealous to the point of screwing my brains out by flirting with other women.

ghce

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Re: Need Help With High Libido Man on TRT and Uninterested Wife
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2017, 06:55:19 pm »


I'm not married and I didn't know it had a name but I can verify that the dread game works. I've made more than one woman jealous to the point of screwing my brains out by flirting with other women.

 Like you didn't know it had a name but I can confirm it works and now that you have reminded me I will try it out some more with the wife (ps dont tell my wife :D )
Age:57, Height 6' 3" weight 92.5KG
2014 Androderm Patches
2014-2016 Oral Andriol 160mg Daily
June 2016 Clomid/Serophene 12.5mg EOD
September 2016 no TRT all natural and supplements for the time being
February 2017 Testosterone cream 100mg daily

Sept 2016
Testosterone   8.2 nmol/l   9-38
Free Testosterone   239 pmol/l   L   250-800
SHBG:  14    nmol/L   9-60
Free Androgen index   586   >400
Oestradiol    112   pmol/L    <190
LH    2.6 IU/L Adult male   2 - 9 IU/L
FSH  1.4 IU/L Adult male L2 - 12 IU/L

22 November
T 6.8  nmol/L ( 9-38 ) L

March 2017
Testosterone:   45.0  nmol/L ( 9-38 ) H ( 1,323 ng/dl )
Free Testosterone:   1512  pmol/L ( 250-800 ) H
SHBG:   17  nmol/L ( 9-60 )
Plasma IGF-1:   227 ug/L ( 55-198 ) H
Plasma cortisol:   434 nmol/L ( 0600-1000 hrs 170-500 nmol/L )
HbA1c:   36 mmol/mol ( 20-40 )
LH:   <0.1 IU/L
FSH:   0.1 IU/L
DHT Plasma Dihydrotestosterone:   7455   pmol/L ( 223 ng/dl ) 

Reference Range Adult males  1000-6000 pmol/L

Boxcar

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Re: Need Help With High Libido Man on TRT and Uninterested Wife
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2017, 06:56:10 pm »
Not something I have personal experience with, but I have some idea of what has worked...

Testosterone for Women:  For female HRT to raise libido, it generally must include testosterone (which it usually does not). Especially when the drop in libido was post-menopausal, low testosterone is usually the culprit. Dr Saya went into this on another thread (apparently he has quite a lot of experience treating women). The interesting thing is that testosterone may be a stronger libido trigger in women than in men, because testosterone spikes with ovulation (ie, there is a very good evolutionary reason for this libido spike!).

"Dread Game":  If the above fails, "dread game" is something that seems to work (a lot of talk about this in Married Red Pill circles).  The name makes this sound worse than it is (and it is definitely nicer than actually going through with divorce).. But the idea is to make your wife feel like she is going to lose you. This can be as simple as being charming with other women, in your wife's presence. Basically it includes all the little things you would be doing, if you were looking to move on.  The emotional subtext is that you are awesome, and if your wife does not appreciate that, then other women will. This can trigger a chasing reflex and even spark genuine desire (the later seems counterintuitive to me, but women are wired differently).

I am not saying that dread game is easy, or a sure thing, but you can find examples of it working.  A regular poster on here made it work for him... I will try to find the thread, but he just seemed to figure it out on his own, without even knowing there was a name for it.

I have an older friend who has been having hormone issues for a few years and she was given a T patch for a couple months. She had no libido before but with the patch she said she couldn't get enough sex. Her doctor quit giving her the patch and is now back to no libido so yes I'd say given just as important for women as it is men.

I'm not married and I didn't know it had a name but I can verify that the dread game works. I've made more than one woman jealous to the point of screwing my brains out by flirting with other women.

Going from 400 ng/dl to 1,300 ng/dl testosterone, I do not feel any boost in libido.  But if you triple a woman's testosterone, things get pretty crazy (or so I'm told).

Jealousy sparks female desire through "preselection."  They know you are a hot alpha-dude when other women treat you like a hot alpha-dude. And she wins by getting you in HER bed.   Of course, men can be sexually competitive as well -- but I do not think that men typically get aroused in response to competition.

Age: 36
178 lbs 5'8''

Current Treatment: 50 mg testosterone cypionate IM, twice a week
Low T Symptoms: Chronic pelvic pain, and other neuropathic pain.  Mild anxiety, low energy and low motivation
Meds: Amitriptyline (for pain, not depression), Clonidine (for sleep, not blood pressure)

Boxcar

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Re: Need Help With High Libido Man on TRT and Uninterested Wife
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2017, 07:17:53 pm »
Here is the thread I referenced, where Joe Sixpack describes, over several comments, how he applied textbook dread game:  http://www.peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=11245.30

Joe describes it better than I have seen anywhere, so it really is worth checking out.  It probably helped that he actually was planning to leave his wife (women are clever monkeys, when it comes to that sort of thing).  Also, in a weird way, it is probably more socially acceptable to begin planning a divorce over "irreconcilable differences," than it is to manipulate your SO into the sack.  (I think society has kind of lost touch with reality, when it comes to sex and relationships, but I digress...)
Age: 36
178 lbs 5'8''

Current Treatment: 50 mg testosterone cypionate IM, twice a week
Low T Symptoms: Chronic pelvic pain, and other neuropathic pain.  Mild anxiety, low energy and low motivation
Meds: Amitriptyline (for pain, not depression), Clonidine (for sleep, not blood pressure)

Cataceous

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Re: Need Help With High Libido Man on TRT and Uninterested Wife
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2017, 08:08:44 pm »
...  (I think society has kind of lost touch with reality, when it comes to sex and relationships, but I digress...)

^^^ This. There was some sanity on this from an unexpected source: my wife's church. Usually these guys are busy wreaking havoc, helping to drive a wedge into a marriage with mixed beliefs, but in this instance they were quoted as speaking sensibly about the emotional/sexual needs of men in a healthy relationship, and some modest good came from it.
I am not a medical doctor; any suggestions are meant to be discussed with your doctor.
Age: 57, Ht: 5'10", Wt: 158 lbs
Protocol: 18 mg T enanthate subQ qod, 250 IU hCG subQ qod, 70 mcg anastrozole qod, 6.25 mg DHEA orally bid
7-12/2018 test results: TT: 800 ng/dL, E2: 31 pg/mL LC/MS-MS, DHEA-S: 264 ug/dL (49-344)—SHBG ~30 nmol/L

vvs1

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Re: Need Help With High Libido Man on TRT and Uninterested Wife
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2017, 08:19:10 pm »
"She absolutely does not respond to daily gentle affection or the more forward method of ass grabbing, nor kissing, flowers, new cars, dinner dates, sexy movies, my fit body or other tried and true methods. The "alpha male" thing means nothing to her. "

This is because it's all too predictable and cliche. If you want to catch a woman's attention, it's about being unpredictable, change up your looks with a different haircut/ clothes, and breaking off the cling abruptly. Once you stop chasing the cat, the cat will come after you. Buy her an old car and take her out to Burger King on a Saturday night, and you'll get some respect you deserve.

I don't think they want romance to be honest. All the nice guy stuff bores them. They probably just want to go out to dinner/get diamonds to rub it in another woman's face.

Runnerman

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Re: Need Help With High Libido Man on TRT and Uninterested Wife
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2017, 09:40:55 pm »
I'd like to say I had some answers for you but I don't. I've been living with my own deadbedroom situation. At least your wife is already on HRT so that is one thing. She probably has more normal genital blood flow and probably isn't experiencing vaginal dryness which can also be a plus. If she is willing to try maybe she can trial some low dose testosterone through her HRT doc?
Do you think she masturbates? I've seen some post-menopausal women mention that regular masturbation helped them maintain or stoke their sexual desire.
I wish I had a magical answer for you (and me). If you do find something that helps, let us know.
Bio Age - 53, 5'9" 170lbs
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Boxcar

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Re: Need Help With High Libido Man on TRT and Uninterested Wife
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2017, 10:05:17 pm »
...  (I think society has kind of lost touch with reality, when it comes to sex and relationships, but I digress...)

^^^ This. There was some sanity on this from an unexpected source: my wife's church. Usually these guys are busy wreaking havoc, helping to drive a wedge into a marriage with mixed beliefs, but in this instance they were quoted as speaking sensibly about the emotional/sexual needs of men in a healthy relationship, and some modest good came from it.

I have never been married, although I could see myself settling down with one woman (risk the dead bedroom thing) and have kids, etc.  But the punishments for guys who play by the rules are so high, it is just hard to justify the risk. I know more than a few guys who have had their wives leave them, and they then have the privilege of financially supporting their ex, sometimes for decades. You have to REALLY want kids, to risk that kind of bs in your life.

I do think those Red Pill and Men's Rights guys overstate the extent to which society is anti-male. But the truth is, we could sit here all day describing the strange minefield that sex has become for the modern American man.

As you suggest, religion typically does not even begin to touch on the ethical realities that the average man deals with in his life.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2017, 10:16:14 pm by Boxcar »
Age: 36
178 lbs 5'8''

Current Treatment: 50 mg testosterone cypionate IM, twice a week
Low T Symptoms: Chronic pelvic pain, and other neuropathic pain.  Mild anxiety, low energy and low motivation
Meds: Amitriptyline (for pain, not depression), Clonidine (for sleep, not blood pressure)

Peak Testosterone Forum

Re: Need Help With High Libido Man on TRT and Uninterested Wife
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2017, 10:05:17 pm »